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***2021-2022 NBA Season Thread***

RonArtest15

By RonArtest15
in The Tailgate

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Lombardi's_kid_brother

Lombardi's_kid_brother

Posted
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If you are against the Wiggins for Love trade, you are saying that you wouldn't want to experience what Miami experienced for the last few years because you never want to experience what Miami is experiencing now.

 

And I find that dumb, because what Miami experienced over the last four years is something that any sports fan would cut of some toes to experience just once.

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Destino

Destino

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You don't really believe that Atlanta, Miami, or Charlotte are as good as we are do you? I'm not being a homer, I'm being realistic. Unless Kevin Love ends up in Cleveland, the Wizards have the best roster in the East this season and it's well built, not gimmicky. If we don't win the SE, it'd be a disappointment.

I don't see the gap others seem to see because there is no way to know what Wall and Beal will be. If they are the same players as last season there is virtually no gap between those three teams. Otto will need to play and he might be horrible. There is a lot of uncertainty because the team needs three players to be better then they ever have been. Two of them have three years or less experience, and those are notoriously inconsistent.

If you are against the Wiggins for Love trade, you are saying that you wouldn't want to experience what Miami experienced for the last few years because you never want to experience what Miami is experiencing now.

And I find that dumb, because what Miami experienced over the last four years is something that any sports fan would cut of some toes to experience just once.

But why not try to win titles without dooming the future? It's possible. If you're going to shoot for the moon why not try to have it all?

Also this might have to do with doubts about Kevin Love. He's good but how good? How many bad defenders can a team have and still win titles?

Edited by Destino
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Lombardi's_kid_brother

Lombardi's_kid_brother

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I don't see the gap others seem to see because there is no way to know what Wall and Beal will be. If they are the same players as last season there is virtually no gap between those three teams. Otto will need to play and he might be horrible. There is a lot of uncertainty because the team needs three players to be better then they ever have been. Two of them have three years or less experience, and those are notoriously inconsistent.

But why not try to win titles without dooming the future? It's possible. If you're going to shoot for the moon why not try to have it all?

 

I don't get why the future is doomed.

 

Love is 25. Kyrie is 22. Everyone is acting like they are trading Love for Dirk or Kobe.

 

And you shoot for the moon, because Lebron's contract is ridiculous. I don't want him pissed off in two years and talking to Kevin Durant about teaming up for the Lakers or something.

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Lombardi's_kid_brother

Lombardi's_kid_brother

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I don't see why the rush to trade for Love. Keep Minny on the hook for the possibility of Wiggins because no one else can top that offer, wait for a couple of month and if the Timberwolves goes 9-20 then you got all the leverage in the world.

 

Rondo

James Young

One of the unprotected Brooklyn picks

Their Cleveland pick

Any number of second round picks and trade exceptions.

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Destino

Destino

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Some other NBA rumors: Josh Smith to the Kings and Nets willing to trade Deron Williams. Man he hit the wall fast and hard.

So the nets paid a fortune in salary for one year of nothing? They even traded away their bad idea at head coach. Essentially they went full Dan Snyder for one year.

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Predicto

Predicto

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I don't see why the rush to trade for Love. Keep Minny on the hook for the possibility of Wiggins because no one else can top that offer, wait for a couple of month and if the Timberwolves goes 9-20 then you got all the leverage in the world.

 

No one can top that offer, but Minny can't wait forever.   They run the risk of getting nothing.   Love can just play out his contract, go UDFA and join Lebron next year, and he knows it.   That would be a disaster for Minny.

 

If I were Minny, I would take Wiggins in a flash if I could get him, but if I got stretched out too long on the negotiations, I would take Klay Thompson or a couple of firsts from Boston.   Minny can't play chicken.  

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@DCGoldPants

@DCGoldPants

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I think Love ends up with the Warriors when its all said and done.

 

Interesting write-up from the Cleveland.com 

 

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2014/07/post_98.html


No one can top that offer, but Minny can't wait forever.   They run the risk of getting nothing.   Love can just play out his contract, go UDFA and join Lebron next year, and he knows it.   That would be a disaster for Minny.

 

If I were Minny, I would take Wiggins in a flash if I could get him, but if I got stretched out too long on the negotiations, I would take Klay Thompson or a couple of firsts from Boston.   Minny can't play chicken.  

 

It won't be just for Wiggins. The link I posted explains that. Plus, Minny still wants future 1st rounders. Straight up isn't an option. Need players adding up to that money as well.

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Predicto

Predicto

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Also this might have to do with doubts about Kevin Love. He's good but how good? How many bad defenders can a team have and still win titles?

 

He's extremely, extremely good.   No, he is not an elite defender, but he isn't horrible.  He might even be close to average.   James Harden is horrible.  Jimmer Fredette is pathetic.  Kyrie Irving is laughable.  Andrea Bargnani is hilarious.  Those guys make Kevin Love look like Bill Russell.  Plus, at least Love will hoover up all the defensive rebounds and throw great outlets with them.  

 

Offensively, Love may be the most valuable player in the league not named James or Durant.   He is spectacular.  My go-to guy for player analysis is Zach Lowe, and here are a couple of tidbits:

 

"The Wolves have been a catastrophe without Love on the floor this season. When he plays, they outscore opponents by nearly six points per 100 possessions and explode on offense, per NBA.com. When he sits, the offense dies, and they have a worse point differential than the Bucks."

 

"He is an offense unto himself — a 3-point bombing machine who warps entire defenses Dirk Nowitzki–style, dominates the glass, passes well, and has developed a strong post game that draws regular double-teams. He’d have made the playoffs by now had the Wolves not whiffed on so many draft picks and free-agency signings. If a team can get Kevin Love, it should get him. He is a superstar, period. David Kahn’s refusal to offer Love the full five-year max deal in 2012 wasn’t just a mistake. It was one of the great front-office blunders in modern NBA history."

 

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-question-of-kevin-love/

 

 

It won't be just for Wiggins. The link I posted explains that. Plus, Minny still wants future 1st rounders. Straight up isn't an option. Need players adding up to that money as well.

 

Oh, I didn't think it would be straight up.   Just that Wiggins would be the key to the deal.  

 

Cleveland would be stupid not to offer Wiggins, and Minny would be stupid not to take a deal with Wiggins in it.

 

As a GSW fan, I hope it doesn't happen and that Love comes out here.  But it should happen.  Makes too much sense for both teams.   

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Predicto

Predicto

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Gotcha. My bad.

I think you get Love because your team is offering those picks and still better overall value right now.

 

I think for Minny it's not just about the pure value of the deal.  It's also about selling the deal to their disgruntled fanbase.  

 

"We got the No. 1 pick this year - yeah that spectacular Wiggins guy everyone has talked about for the last couple of years"

 

will go over better than 

 

"that very good all around player who played second fiddle to Steph Curry out west."  

 

Wiggins was inconsistent in his one year in college, is raw as hell, and may never develop a full NBA skill set, but he has great name recognition and enormous natural athletic ability.   He will sell tickets, and ease the pain of Minny fans at losing Love.   

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Going Commando

Going Commando

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Wiggins for Love is a no brainer.  Wiggins is a SF.  LeBron is a SF.  Wiggins can't shoot.  LeBron can't shoot.  Kevin Love is a PF.  Kevin Love can shoot.

 

Kyrie + Love + LeBron passes the Wizards and would be the favorite to win the East.  That'd be the most talented big 3 in the league.  Really the only true big 3 left.


If I were the Sixers, I'd try to get on on a 3-way trade to aquire Wiggins.

 

I wonder why the 76ers don't try and get in on a deal for Rondo or Love or any of these other disgruntled good players.  Noel + Embiid is a janky front court.  Noel + Love is potentially incredible.

 

Though I guess you'd have to get Love to commit long term first.


Also, where is Utah in all this?  They've got as many interesting, movable young assets as anyone.

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Destino

Destino

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And now it's being reported that the Warriors are willing to include Klay Thompson in Love deal. Shocker. You know if Flip plays this right he could really set up Minny nicely.

Wiggins and Waiters wouldn't be a bad return for a guy that's going to leave anyway. I'd take them over a Klay and Lee.

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Going Commando

Going Commando

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LeBron isn't Ray Allen, but I wouldn't exactly say he can't shoot.

As for the Sixers. It's all about the future. Plus, Love and Rondo wants to go to a team that could win NOW.

 

LeBron's a streak shooter that's only going to make a good percentage of his jumpers if they're uncontested.  He's a ball handler.  You don't run drive and dishes to him.  But you also don't run them for Wiggins because he can't shoot yet either.

 

They don't really fit together for the same reasons Wade and LeBron didn't fit together offensively.  Only difference was Wade was a top five player in 2010 and 2011 and they could each score mid 20s PPG just by running fast breaks and taking turns dominating the ball.  Wiggins is not that.  And after Wade wasn't a top player any more, he essentially became useless.  Wiggins will be underutilized by the Cavs until he becomes a good 3 ball shooter and he'll have to play SG most of the time when his natural position is SF.  Love is a far better fit for Cleveland than Wiggins at this point.

 

Just adding LeBron gets Cleveland 11 or 12 more wins next season.  A Kyrie bump is probably worth 3 or 4 more wins.  Add Love and you probably get another 8 wins or so.  That big three could get Cleveland the 20+ win bump into mid 50's territory and the 1 seed IMO.

 

As a Wizards fan, I certainly would rather them not deal for Love and have them stick with Wiggins.  But objectively speaking, it's such an obvious move for Cleveland to make.  Turn a medium value piece that's not a good fit into a high value piece that's an awesome fit.  Duh.

Wiggins and Waiters wouldn't be a bad return for a guy that's going to leave anyway. I'd take them over a Klay and Lee.

 

Cleveland doesn't really have anything outside of Wiggins and Waiters to add to a deal except draft picks.  Bennett and Thompson are other draft mistakes that don't really have much value.  I'm not sure Bennett has positive trade value...

 

But Minny doesn't need both Wiggins & another SG like Waiters.  They've got Zach LaVine, him plus Wiggins would already be all the appealing young talent they could handle.

 

If I'm Minny I would try and make Cleveland take back Kevin Martin's salary and I'd make them include draft picks.

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PeterMP

PeterMP

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I think the Cavs really need to consider NOT making the Love trade.

 

Are you going to be able to have the depth/diversity with a Irving, Love, and Lebron max deals team to be really great?

Wiggins is potentially going to be cheap compared the equivalent depth/role player on a comparable team.

 

And the same with Bennett.

 

The only way I make the trade is if I don't think that between Wiggins and Bennet, I don't have a future top 5 NBA player and/or a combination of two top 15 NBA players.

 

Now, things change some if Love is willing to give me a discount.

 

The other thing I'd consider if I was the Cavs is a Love for Irving trade.  I think on a max deal Irving's being over paid.

 

And you wouldn't be giving up young cheap assets.

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