The Official ES All Things Redskins Name Change Thread (Reboot Edition---Read New OP)

[Bonez3]

More and more read here, the more the objective evidence is only on side it is not a slur.

Those offended by the term are going to be offended by any NA term.

The name was chosen by NAs and adopted by culture at some time.

The past injustices are what's driving this and the term Redskins unjustly being stigmatized.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Hey man, you were the one who tossed out the "careless dismissal" accusation to begin with.

Okay man. You posted that without reading the prior posts we made. It's cool. Take your L lol

[RFKFedEx]

wow. at first i would have thought that was a joke, but its wise, so you know its not. 

 

what the hell is that? i think he's lost his mind. 

I was kinda surprised to see the GPM level christened as such in 1997. I didn't have a real problem with it at the time, but I certainly hope its not still recognized under that name today.

 

Has anyone seen GPM's name employed anywhere in the stadium in recent years? 

 

I've seen the placards for the Joe Gibbs Club Level and the Pete Rozelle Upper Level in recent years, but nothing for GPM. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

This is what I'm talking about. If a Native American comes to me and says they find the term "Redskin" offensive because it reminds them of past transgressions and because it has to do specifically with skin color, then that should be enough.

That's a valid reason to me. I have no right to tell them to back up anything with facts.

A kid I mentor told me he is offended by BET. Wants to know why there's not a White Entertainment Television. Better change the name.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

A kid I mentor told me he is offended by BET. Wants to know why there's not a White Entertainment Television. Better change the name.

LOL Jesus man.... This is a joke post right?

[Duckus]

UnWise Mike is getting dirty on the twitter.

 

He's now trying to sway African American Redskins fans to join his side in the name change crusade.

 

UnWise Mike @MikeWiseguy  ·  16h

Serious question: Are you okay sitting in the George Preston Marshall section, lower bowl, of FedEx Field? Maybe it's just

@MikeWiseguy 16h

If someone in Ashburn doesn't convince Dan Snyder to get rid of George Preston Marshall section by September, it says everything about him

 

@MikeWiseguy 16h

Imagine all the great African-American fans being forced to sit in a section of FedEx named after an infamous segregationist. Shameful.

 

Dude is a professional troll. I am for a name change and it kills me that if it does change - UnWise Mike will claim it as a personal victory. 

[Kosher Ham]

Also I'm not saying that the name should be changed because of this but I'm just trying to say that it isn't cool to just dismiss the other side so carelessly

 

What you are saying is the same thing that code has stated...those few NA's that he and you knew. My family is NA...we think it's completely absurd.

 

who is dismissing the other side so carelessly? (seriously, brave, you gotta quote people)

I don't see anyone dismissing the feelings of NA's. I would be offended if that was the case.

 

I feel like many just want to be vindicated for their position. The ones that state they "don't wan't it to happen, but it will" mostly.

 

The passionate ones are making the points.

[Elessar78]

Elessar78

 

-I don't believe that one bit.  Snyder is not just the owner of the REDSKINS, but a fan of the team and its rich history.  His team brings in the 3rd highest in revenue out of the 32 NFL teams.  He is not hurting for money, even if the "price is right".  He wont change the name unless forced.  Thank god he has taken a strong stance to not change the name for some idiotic liberal senators crying about something they have no business being in.

 

HTTR

Seriously? Every move he has done has been to increase revenue: charge for training camp, force people into his parking lots, obstructed view seating, shaking down grannies for $$ they didn't have when the recession turned south, etc. etc. No fault in that, it's his investment. Every action taken puts revenue first and football operations second, IMHO. 

 

Lots of people "not hurting for money" are always, aggressively trying to make more of it. Stuff like publicly funded stadium deals aren't peanuts—that's real money in the discussion. 

 

I feel you have a distorted view of this whole issue if you think that "liberal senators" are crying about this and not actually the people offended by the name.  

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Leave it to Cali to bring murdered cats into the discussion lol

But I get you man

 

Better than unicorns lol...

[Diesel Hog]

LOL Jesus man.... This is a joke post right?

 

I hope so.  There is a "White Entertainment Channel"...it's called every other channel that is not BET.

[elkabong82]

Wonder how many times he's sat in that section? Now after all these year of the section being named that, he's going to try and bring that up?

 

Surprised he doesn't take it a step further and start bashing the NFL for having Marshall in the HOF.

 

He was a racist, but there was more to him than just that. I feel like reducing people to just that and ignoring their helpful accomplishments (Marshall was vital to the league's success and becoming what it is today) places racism in a light that is unrecoverable. I don't agree with that demonization because I don't think it allows much room for a person to see their erorr and try to fix it. That's the way you end racism, by allowing for an open dialogue that can help racists imrpove. Demonization just further outcasts them and then they pass that resenment on to others.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

LOL Jesus man.... This is a joke post right?

Yes. Pointing out that it's silly to say you have no reason to question someone's offended feelings if race is involved.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Surprised he doesn't take it a step further and start bashing the NFL for having Marshall in the HOF.

 

He was a racist, but there was more to him than just that. I feel like reducing people to just that and ignoring their helpful accomplishments (Marshall was vital to the league's success and becoming what it is today) places racism in a light that is unrecoverable. I don't agree with that demonization because I don't think it allows much room for a person to see their erorr and try to fix it. That's the way you end racism, by allowing for an open dialogue that can help racists imrpove. Demonization just further outcasts them and then they pass that resenment on to others.

 

Get ready for some "Hitler did some good things, too" retorts lol...

[Diesel Hog]

I was firmly against the name change, but man alive, this thing just aint gonna die, so I'm rethinking things now.  No one I ever have known has said "redskins" and meant anything other than the football team and players / coaches on said team.  However, many are just flat out offended, and there isn't much you, or I can do to change that.  With that in mind, maybe it should change.  I think it's BS, but it's that, or this is all we hear about from now on.  

 

Just wait, if the team is actually good this year, we're gonna hear even more.

[elkabong82]

This is what I'm talking about. If a Native American comes to me and says they find the term "Redskin" offensive because it reminds them of past transgressions and because it has to do specifically with skin color, then that should be enough.

That's a valid reason to me. I have no right to tell them to back up anything with facts.

To me, when you go on your spiel about backing stuff up, it seems like your dismissing what they feel and that is asinine to me.

But like it said, we differ at the most important point so there's nothing that can be said to change anything

 

Sorry, but connecting past trasngressions to a football team that has nothing to do with it is absurd. Moreover, the skin color argument doesn't hold up when red exists throughout various NA cultures just like white and black exist as skin color descriptors. The word was started by NAs as merely that kind of descriptorand became a generalized term in reference to themselves, and NA high schools use it in the same way as we do.

 

So those aren't valid reasons to me. They're emotional ones that don't hold up to reason. You have every right to tell someone their feelings should be backed up by reason when they are demanding a team change it's 80+ year old name.

 

To me, when you say stuff like "thesis" and "spiel," about a few sentences that actually address the issue, it comes off INCREDIBLY dismissive and rude, and makes it look like you are a lazy reader. Perhaps if you didn't consider reading a few sentences as a lengthy chore then you would have a betetr understanding of what I've been saying and that addressing the reasons for someone's feelings is not dismissing them, it's the EXACT opposite, it is directly adressing them.

 

You can feel what you want, but I don't care who you are, there should be validity and factual reasoning if you're going to demand a change based off those feelings or tell others you are offended by something they are doing/celebrating.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I was firmly against the name change, but man alive, this thing just aint gonna die, so I'm rethinking things now.  No one I ever have known has said "redskins" and meant anything other than the football team and players / coaches on said team.  However, many are just flat out offended, and there isn't much you, or I can do to change that.  With that in mind, maybe it should change.  I think it's BS, but it's that, or this is all we hear about from now on.  

 

Just wait, if the team is actually good this year, we're gonna hear even more.

 

Stop hanging around on this thread or on sports message boards in general as much, and you'll be surprised at how little you hear about the name change.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Surprised he doesn't take it a step further and start bashing the NFL for having Marshall in the HOF.

He was a racist, but there was more to him than just that. I feel like reducing people to just that and ignoring their helpful accomplishments (Marshall was vital to the league's success and becoming what it is today) places racism in a light that is unrecoverable. I don't agree with that demonization because I don't think it allows much room for a person to see their erorr and try to fix it. That's the way you end racism, by allowing for an open dialogue that can help racists imrpove. Demonization just further outcasts them and then they pass that resenment on to others.

Except he died a racist and never seemed to want to improve.

It took govt action just for him to field black players.

I get what you're trying to say as ppl do have the ability to change but it doesn't fit with Marshall at all

[dfitzo53]

Stop hanging around on this thread or on sports message boards in general as much, and you'll be surprised at how little you hear about the name change.

I guess it depends on where you are and who you are around.

 

I have coworkers that point it out from time to time.

[GoSkins0721]

UnWise Mike is getting dirty on the twitter.

 

He's now trying to sway African American Redskins fans to join his side in the name change crusade.

 

UnWise Mike @MikeWiseguy  ·  16h

Serious question: Are you okay sitting in the George Preston Marshall section, lower bowl, of FedEx Field? Maybe it's just

@MikeWiseguy 16h

If someone in Ashburn doesn't convince Dan Snyder to get rid of George Preston Marshall section by September, it says everything about him

 

@MikeWiseguy 16h

Imagine all the great African-American fans being forced to sit in a section of FedEx named after an infamous segregationist. Shameful.

 

Someone needs to put a stop to this guy. WTF is the leadership at the WaPo doing allowing this drivel from one of their writers?

 

@MikeUnwiseBecauseImAFookingIdiot --- Imagine all the great African-American fans being forced to live in a city named after a famous slave owner. #ImAFookingIdiotAndMyNameIsWise

[Bang]

I was kinda surprised to see the GPM level christened as such in 1997. I didn't have a real problem with it at the time, but I certainly hope its not still recognized under that name today.

 

Has anyone seen GPM's name employed anywhere in the stadium in recent years? 

 

I've seen the placards for the Joe Gibbs Club Level and the Pete Rozelle Upper Level in recent years, but nothing for GPM. 

George Washington owned slaves y'know. So did Thomas Jefferson.

They could have set them free,  but,, well, I guess making them worth 3/5ths of a person was good enough.

I will eagerly await you're hand wringing over their overt racism, actual slave-owning and exploitation on the 4th of July.

 

You can't change the past, and ignoring it only makes one,, well,  ignorant.

 

Continually crying over our connection with GPM is pretty friggin' stupid. Like it or not, he's the founder of the damn team.

You want to get rid of that, you want to get rid of the name

Face it, without the name, they're just 53 football players who interchange practically year to year.

Marshall has been dead for 45 years now, and you're still worried about it.

 

So what is it you're a fan of?

 

by the way,, 1997 was the year they re-instated Buffalo Bill Cody's medal of honor and recognized his enormous contribution to the destruction of the Native Way of Life..   er..  uh,,  "winning the Indian wars"..  as a national hero.

 

And yet somehow the Redskins are what aggravates people.

 

Low hanging fruit. Kardashian Kulture.

Stoopid herd animals. Dumm as kaddle, and dang prowd uv it.

 

~Bang

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I guess it depends on where you are and who you are around.

 

I have coworkers that point it out from time to time.

 

Ah, well that's true...I work from home (freelance graphic designer) so I'm my own coworker lol...

[Diesel Hog]

I guess it depends on where you are and who you are around.

 

I have coworkers that point it out from time to time.

Exactly. Try walking around with a Redskins shirt or hat.  Someone will say something to you.  It's just a lightening rod issue now, and it's only going to intensify.  

 

I don't want the name to change, but if the alternative is the crap-storm it's causing year round, I'd rather just change it, and get back to talking football.

[elkabong82]

Get ready for some "Hitler did some good things, too" retorts lol...

 

lol, it honestly wouldn't surprise me to see such a lazy comparison made. They would unknowingly be furthering my point about demonization and advocating that over the undertsanding and tolerance they preach. Wise and so many of them match what they view as intolerance with the exact same despite preaching otherwise. If they practiced what they preached they might actually engage people in conversation and change some minds. Instead they are intolerant and demonize anyone that disagrees. This just creates a divide and bullies people into submission by manipulating guilt and compassion. There is no discussion with them and that's the worst thing for trying to change people's minds. When I see people do that, to me it looks like they care more about the agenda and power than the cause and changing people's minds.

 

Fortunately most of our fan base seems to genuinely care that we represent NAs respectfully, because Wise's intolerance kills dialogue and ultimately hurts the cause he is pushing.

[War Paint]

I'm just curious if or when the Redskins win the appeal and it looks as if the name WILL stay for a long time to come, will the name changers still be fans of the team or will they jump ship?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Not sure if anyone watches House Of Cards, but...

 

In the 2nd season, there's a scene with Frank Underwood (congressman/Vice President) is meeting with a group of Native Americans in his office. When Frank arrives to the meeting, the scene shows one of the NAs staring at something on the wall. When Frank walks over to him the NA says "Is Andrew Jackson going to be joining us as well?"...Frank immediately apologizes and has one of his aids take down the portrait of Jackson that it turns out the NA was staring at.

 

It was already mentioned in this thread, but the question would still remain: should Andrew Jackson be removed from the $20 bill? But even more to the point, would Mike "I have the IQ of a baked potato" Wise ever think of asking NAs "How do you feel accepting $20 bills throughout your regular life? If you've accepted them and used them, that says a lot about you" like he's saying towards Black Redskins fans who willingly sit in the GPM section of FedEx.