The Official ES All Things Redskins Name Change Thread (Reboot Edition---Read New OP)

[Bang]

I'm just curious if or when the Redskins win the appeal and it looks as if the name WILL stay for a long time to come, will the name changers still be fans of the team or will they jump ship?

Since this is several decades old, I find it very difficult to take them seriously at all anyway.

why are they still here?

 

~Bang

 

 

[RFKFedEx]

You can't change the past, and ignoring it only makes one,, well,  ignorant.

 

 

~Bang

Are you ok with team continuing to honor of GPM? (if the placard is in fact still on display) If it's not, then Wise is likely incorrect.

 

Edit: You can go after Buffalo Bill Bang. His story doesn't interest me.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Exactly. Try walking around with a Redskins shirt or hat.  Someone will say something to you.  It's just a lightening rod issue now, and it's only going to intensify.  

 

I don't want the name to change, but if the alternative is the crap-storm it's causing year round, I'd rather just change it, and get back to talking football.

 

When I'm in D.C. I see TONS of people in Redskins gear...I'm having a hard time believing that damn near all of them are receiving a "crap-storm" from strangers. I think fur wearers got more of a crap-storm from PETA than Skins fans are probably getting from the general public. At least PETA's efforts were organized, not random and sporadic.

[Bang]

 

 

Black Redskins fans who willingly sit in the GPM section of FedEx.

I would bet that black fans who sit in the GPM section of fedEx field think "I'm at the football game" and not the name of the long dead man who the section is named for.

 

After all, I am assuming that they are here in Washington, named after a man who owned slaves.

 

the past is the past.

Leave it there and you'd be amazed how people can move forward.

 

Wise is an absolute ass bringing that up as an "issue". For those people sitting at the football game, it's not.

 

They could stay home but decided to go to the game because George Preston Marshall and his segregationist ways have been DEAD FOR 45 YEARS, and it doesn't affect them anymore.

I would firther suggest that if you tgook every black person who sits in that section for the entire season, you MIGHT find maybe 5% of them who were old enough to remember him being a segregationist asshole.

For the majority of them, he died before they were born or while they were children.

 

Oh my poor hands! 

I must wring them some more! 

 

~BooHooHoo

Are you ok with team continuing to honor of GPM? (if the placard is in fact still on display) If it's not, then Wise is likely incorrect.

 

Edit: You can go after Buffalo Bill Bang. His story doesn't interest me.

I don't CARE about it.

It does not affect me, you or anyone here.

At all.

I don't give a damn about it at all. 

 

 

Now, as i said,,  are you 100% sure that everyone in the ring of Fame is squeaky clean? No racists up there, no wife beaters or drunks? How about the NFL in general? you sure there's no racists in the past? How about baseball, or any sport, or any corporation or anything?

How can you buy Crayola crayons for your kids if you don't know whether or not Mrs. Binney OR Smith were racists or not?

 

How can you bear to walk out of the house knowing racists once roamed the earth?

 

Why should Buffalo Bill interest you?

it would require thought, and it would require an actual recognition of what is REAL as opposed to what is made up.

the fact it doesn't interest you proves everything I say about every one of you suckers.You're worried about a name on a stadium wall, but not about a man who is officially recognized as a national hero specifically for destroying native culture.

 

Away with you. You make no sense.

 

~Bang

[elkabong82]

I was kinda surprised to see the GPM level christened as such in 1997. I didn't have a real problem with it at the time, but I certainly hope its not still recognized under that name today.

 

Has anyone seen GPM's name employed anywhere in the stadium in recent years? 

 

I've seen the placards for the Joe Gibbs Club Level and the Pete Rozelle Upper Level in recent years, but nothing for GPM. 

 

Then every team that is still around today that was around in the 30s-50s and has a section named for their owner at that time should rename their sections because every owner was complicit in keeping blacks from playing.

 

GPM being last to integrate doesn't excuse that the rest of the owners were racist as well. He has been scapegoated and others have been excused of similar transgresions and that's BS IMO. They are all guilty so if you demonize one then you should demonize them all.

 

Or one can simply recognize that many men were racist back then and that it is an unfortuante part of our country's history and we should learn from it but should also recognize the significant accompishments of that person. If it weren't for Marshall we might all be on ExtremeNats right now.

 

If we demonized every racist and ignored their accomplishments then U.S. history class wouldn't even cover a semester. That doesn't mean racism should be excused, but demonizing it in the way Wise and others are doing just shows a complete lack of understanding the time in which people lived and that kind of ignorance and intolerance is exactly what can allow the past to manifest itself in new ways.

 

To highlight the ridiculousness of Wise's argument, should we get rid of the Jefferson Memorial because he owned slaves? Should Ty Cobb be kicked out of the baseball HOF for being known as a racist? Should we erase most of the names on the Declaration of Independence since they owned slaves? Or how about we condemn nearly every white person's ancestors since nearly all were racists who didn't view non-whites, or women, as equals?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I would bet that black fans who sit in the GPM section of fedEx field think "I'm at the football game" and not the name of the long dead man who the section is named for.

 

After all, I am assuming that they are here in Washington, named after a man who owned slaves.

 

.....

 

Oh my poor hands! 

I must wring them some more! 

 

~BooHooHoo

 

LOL...well put.

 

This was my response(s) to Wise on twitter:

 

@MikeWiseguy - If I avoided any and all things in US that have roots in racism and bigotry, I'd have to leave the country.

 

A word of advice: don't try to tell Black men and women how they should deal with/feel about racism in America's history.

 

"Walk the roads my forefathers walked/Climb the trees my forefathers hung from.." -Tennessee. We deal with it in many ways.

[Kosher Ham]

Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang.

 

That's the guy I know that posts on this board.

 

Thank you sir.

[Bang]

Wise knows better than you.

He saw "Roots".

 

~Bang

[RFKFedEx]

 

Wise is an absolute ass bringing that up as an "issue". For those people sitting at the football game, it's not.

 

They could stay home but decided to go to the game because George Preston Marshall and his segregationist ways have been DEAD FOR 45 YEARS, and it doesn't affect them anymore.

I would fiurther suggest that if you took every black person who sits in that section for the entire season, you MIGHT find maybe 5% of them who were old enough to remember him being a segregationist asshole.

For the majority of them, he died before they were born or while they were children.

 

Oh my poor hands! 

I must wring them some more! 

 

~BooHooHoo

I don't CARE about it.

It does not affect me, you or anyone here.

At all.

I don't give a damn about it at all. 

 

 

~Bang

Have you ever known anybody who was actually subjected GPM's racism? 

[elkabong82]

Are you ok with team continuing to honor of GPM? (if the placard is in fact still on display) If it's not, then Wise is likely incorrect.

 

Edit: You can go after Buffalo Bill Bang. His story doesn't interest me.

 

I'm ok with it, but that's because I recognize we might not have the NFL if it weren't for him and because I'm capable of understanding that the plaque is in honor of his football contributions and doesn't condone his racism.

[Bonez3]

I'm in the northeast and Philly country, with lots of NYG fans. I had my 2 year old at beach yesterday in redskins hat.

Not a single 'crap storm'. About 100% of questions regards to DJax and my thoughts. I don't thinks its a 'massive US issue'.

Also, for my 11 Year olds current event topic for school every Friday I forced her to bring in 50 senators issue. Not slot of buzz based on my feedback. Kids don't care and I asked what teacher said, did it open conversation... Nada

[Bang]

Have you ever known anybody who was actually subjected GPM's racism? 

I'm sorry, but you will have to make some sense.

It's a simple request.

 

I don't know Bobby Mitchell, and I don't know other black players who he may have ignored.

If you do know Bobby Mitchell, you would recognize simply by his AGE how long ago that all was, and how insignificant it is to how we conduct ourselves today.

It happened.

A long time ago.

Not yesterday, not the other week.

 

Bobby Mitchedll broke through Marshall's idiotic color barrier in 1962.

51 years ago. It has never been rebuilt.

Ever. Go ask Doug Williams about how to bury a dead racist owner's past, because he did.

 

do you have any proof that Marshall or anyone else from this team practiced any sort of prejudice since? Any players ever griped about racism or being prejudicial treatment over their race?

I can't really think of any.

 

Oh, but you know what?

All of those Natives you're championing?

every one of them still feels the affects of what Buffalo Bill did.

every single one of them.

 

But that doesn't interest you.

why not?

 

~Bang

[Fan since a Fetus]

That supposed journalist is getting exactly what he wants. He has your attention. Like a lot of people involved with the news, they just say something inflammatory and get their name out there. Look at Bayless on ESPN, he's made a living from being a complete douche.

The XE from the WP is doing the same thing and you guys are getting angry upset, and pushing his name still. You post his stuff and allow him to get you riled up.

Hint, he doesn't give a **** about any of this. He is scum and concerned only with himself.

As long as he is in the news with people promoting his idiocracy, he will have a job. I imagine the WP will keep him on as long as his dribble keeps getting hits.

[CrypticVillain]

Away with you. You make no sense.

I want to put this on a T-Shirt.

 

 

Wise is you dirty tactics, and is trolling real hard. And the sad thing is people are going to fall for it. In a couple of days, we're going to see legit news organizations reporting about the GPM section at FedEx Field.

 

I remember when being good at your job was good enough to be noticed. Nowadays, the thing to get noticed is to make the most noise. That is the society we live in now. 

[Destino]

Wonder which one I'll believe. Tough decision.

You know without a doubt that some are offended, why would it be impossible that those he's spoken with are offended by the name? He did mention that this was on a university right? If there is one place you are likely to find people offended, by anything at all, it's in college. Perhaps you just like calling people liars when it suits you.

I've created a situation in which someone if claiming offense, and declaring that their reason for being offended is something that isn;t true.

You've created a situation where the offended party appears to be discriminatory towards Muslims. Was that your intended implication, that those offended by the name redskin are the true racists, or was that just a happy accident caused by your terrible comparison?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Have NO idea how true it is, hoping it is indeed true, but...

 

Kerry J. Byrne ‏@footballfacts 1h

Inspiration 4 @Redskins name, logo was patriotic hero celebrated by Founding Fathers @bostonherald #redskins http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/opinion/op_ed/2014/06/byrne_redskins_a_tribute_to_popular_chief …

 

 

The Native American who inspired the Washington Redskins name and logo was celebrated by our Founding Fathers as a patron saint of America.

 

Now the PC police, led by big-city white elitists, want to wipe from history a multihued American past that conflicts with their monochromatic world view.

 

The face on the Redskins uniform is that of a member of the Lenni-Lenape tribe named Tamanend, or Tammany. He was a confidant of William Penn and symbolized the blend of Old World and New that made the United States possible.

 

“This is King Tammany’s Day,” wrote John Adams from Philadelphia on May 1, 1777. “The people here have sainted him and keep him to this day.”

 

The ragtag Continental Army at Valley Forge “spent the day in mirth and jollity … in honor of King Tammany,” wrote George Washington one year later.

 

“Many [colonists] regarded the story of Tamanend a fitting symbol for their ideals of freedom,” wrote Joseph Norwood in his 1938 book, “The Tammany Legend.” “He was promptly given the name of Saint Tammany, patron of America.”

 

A painting of Tammany appears in Norwood’s book. He looks much like the man in the Redskins logo: same distinct nose, headdress and swept-back black hair.

 

Patriotic societies in Tammany’s honor sprouted first in Philadelphia and then around the land.

 

New York City’s Tammany Hall, the Democratic Party machine led by Boss Tweed, was one of those organizations. A statue of Tammany in feather headdress graces the entrance to Tammany Hall.

 

In 1912, a prominent member of Tammany Hall, James Gaffney, purchased the Boston Rustlers, the city’s National League baseball team.

But he soon renamed them the more alliterative Boston Braves and introduced the image of Tammany as the team’s logo.

Fast forward to 1932, when the NFL team now known as the Washington Redskins debuted as the Boston Braves. It was common at the time for upstart NFL teams to adopt the name of the established local baseball team. The new NFL team naturally adopted the same color scheme and logo: the face of King Tammany.

 

The football Braves lasted only one year. The team moved from Braves Field to Fenway Park, home of the Red Sox, the following season.

 

The young NFL franchise could no longer keep the name Braves. Yet the owners wanted to keep the tradition of red in the Boston uniform, the franchise’s Native American heritage and its image. And they wanted to pay tribute to their new home-field hosts.

 

The name Redskins fit perfectly on each front. The franchise kept the name Redskins when it was moved to Washington in 1937.

Evidence exists Redskins founder George Preston Marshall was a racist. But the name Redskins is not racist. It defies reason that a racist would name a team for a race of people he despised. And he had nothing to do with the creation of the logo and its Native American identity. He merely adopted it from the Democrat Party operative Gaffney.

 

In reality, the name Redskins, like every sports nickname, is a tribute. In this case, it’s a tribute to a great American who had a profound influence on the young nation.

 

“The American ideals of a human right to ‘life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness’ spring chiefly from original American sources,” wrote Norwood. “These ideals are therefore so distinctively native to the soil that they should be known as the first Americans knew them, by a name that completely symbolizes them. This name is Tamanend.”

 

It’s no small irony that the PC police now want to wipe from history a public tribute to this influential Native American merely because of the color of his skin.

[SWFLSkins]

Once again, it's not an imaginary reality. I go to a very diverse university. I haven't met one NAs that hasn't told me they were offended when I mention my favorite team.

I wore a Skins crew neck to a party once and a girl gave me a 30 minute spiel.

I'm not saying it warrants a name change but I keep seeing posters here saying that NAs aren't offended and if they are, they shouldn't , which isn't true and inconsiderate.

 

This is an issue with the name and how it is forgotten where it came from. Suddenly young people of NA decent are offended, where did that come from. Certainly the elder generation of NA's have been living and in many cases loving the name. This to me is a clear sign that many are getting this offense from the media itself. Can you see that? It would be interesting if you asked their parents or grandparents how they felt. 

 

I believe in most cases but certainly not all that the seed of doubt and negative reaction to the teams name is being sold by the media, unfortunately we live in a culture that gobbles it up. Did you ever watch the movie Idiocracy? 

[Diesel Hog]

When I'm in D.C. I see TONS of people in Redskins gear...I'm having a hard time believing that damn near all of them are receiving a "crap-storm" from strangers. I think fur wearers got more of a crap-storm from PETA than Skins fans are probably getting from the general public. At least PETA's efforts were organized, not random and sporadic.

 

"Crap Storm" was meant to refer to MW and all the media hype, not strangers / dog walking acquaintances  coming up to me.  Most who have come up to me don't care or don't think the name should change.  You can't deny this is a crap-storm.  You can barely talk about the team now w/o mention of the "controversy".

[Fan since a Fetus]

Now, I am starting to question whether I should change my last name. I am positive that I have had racist ancestors. Should I continue to honor them by keeping the name? Or should I squash it because I know they weren't the nicest of people.

It's a dilemma that I am facing since reading the reporter's crap. I realize I wouldn't be here without my ancestor's, but that shouldn't matter should it? They were bad, so I think it is a must to change my name to assist with my well being and all future talking meat bags.

Now my dilemma is going to be finding a name that is so squeaky clean, that I do not feel the least bit of shame attached to it. Wow, this is going to be really difficult.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

"Crap Storm" was meant to refer to MW and all the media hype, not strangers / dog walking acquaintances  coming up to me.  Most who have come up to me don't care or don't think the name should change.  You can't deny this is a crap-storm.  You can barely talk about the team now w/o mention of the "controversy".

 

Ah, gotcha...

 

But no, I don't feel this has become a "crap-storm". RG3's knee injury was a crap-storm lol...this is a light drizzle by comparison.

[SWFLSkins]

Exactly. Try walking around with a Redskins shirt or hat.  Someone will say something to you.  It's just a lightening rod issue now, and it's only going to intensify.  

 

I don't want the name to change, but if the alternative is the crap-storm it's causing year round, I'd rather just change it, and get back to talking football.

 

I walk around with gear all the time, have a sticker on my truck, I have gotten mostly supportive comments tbh. I did have a couple convo's that started out negative and as I explained some of the facts on the name, logo, etc... they said hmmm. Why don't we hear that side? They all agree this is media driven/ 

[Destino]

Yeah, engaging someone in a conversation and addressing the reasons for their opinion rather than letting emotion and irrelevant things rule the conversation is terrible advice.

Thinking that you get to decide what is and isn't relevant when dealing with an angry offended individual in regards to their own race is arrogant and foolish. Even considering responding to claims of long lived persecution as a guilt trip is laughable.

Your advice works for typing arguments on the internet, otherwise it's terrible advice.

[Larry]

You know without a doubt that some are offended, why would it be impossible that those he's spoken with are offended by the name? Perhaps you just like calling people liars when it suits you.

Because I know enough statistics to know what the odds are, if someone samples a bag of rocks where 90% of the rocks are blue, of them selecting multiple rocks which are 100% red? Over the course of their entire lifetime?

And I will point out, I didn't call him a liar.

(I intentionally did not do so. I think that the odds of his statement ("I haven't met one NAs that hasn't told me they were offended when I mention my favorite team.") being true, are about the same as him declaring that he has never met a person who didn't win the lottery. But I also realized that the odds of me successfully proving that yes, at least one time in his life, he actually has met a NA who did not walk up to him and begin expressing their opinion of the Redskins name, enough for him to actually back down from his laughable claim, are rather slim. And I therefore chose to point out what a joke his claim was, through other means.)

 

You've created a situation where the offended party appears to be discriminatory towards Muslims. Was that your intended implication, that those offended by the name redskin are the true racists, or was that just a happy accident caused by your terrible comparison?

 

Or, perhaps I "created a situation" in which a person was announcing a fact which was known to be untrue, and wasn't calling anybody any names, whatsoever. 

[RFKFedEx]

I'm sorry, but you will have to make some sense.

It's a simple request.

 

I don't know Bobby Mitchell, and I don't know other black players who he may have ignored.

If you do know Bobby Mitchell, you would recognize simply by his AGE how long ago that all was, and how insignificant it is to how we conduct ourselves today.

It happened.

A long time ago.

Not yesterday, not the other week.

 

do you have any proof that Marshall or anyone else from this team practiced any sort of prejudice since?

 

Oh, but you know what?

All of those Natives you're championing?

every one of them still feels the affects of what Buffalo Bill did.

every single one of them.

 

But that doesn't interest you.

why not?

 

~Bang

If you met Bobby Mitchell and he brought up his discomfort with the team continuing to honoring GPM, would you remind him that 'it was a long time ago, and thus insignificant bc we've learned better today'?

 

No reports on what's happened since GPM, just first hand accounts from a living, breathing AA fan who grew up in the Shaw neighborhood in the 1950s, one who is still a fan who wears his colors almost every time I see him, despite his family splitting bt us and Dallas. I'm sure you could school him on now vs. then. 

 

I'll be interested to follow your pursuit of the Buffalo Bills name change. I hope you can garner Native support. Until there's someone else on that train besides you, I likely won't be interested.

[SWFLSkins]

Apparently I am a minority in my walk, the walk is highlighted in red. -maybe it's too deep, but it's there. 

I have no idea what the relevance of the last part is though

Actually you know what **** that, lol I am a minority, not that I care. I love diversity, in food and music, chicks especially. White, Black, Red, Yellow, Brown we are all shades of brown. I have never seen a black person. I have never seen a white person or Red or Yellow. Only tones. I have seen ugly from the inside on all sides.