Diss Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Actually, it's not really a legitimate issue for MOST people. There is a vocal minority who continue to beat their drum and try to make it into a big deal, but the general public doesn't care. The issue has been taken to court, but nothing ever came of it. Any time polls are conducted, the vast majority of native americans don't seem to have an issue with it. So yes, I consider it a tired issue because, while it might not work for you or Wise, the consensus among the rest of the general public seems to be this is a non issue. Thanks for at least addressing my points this time, even if you seem to be misinterpreting my (I thought) clearly stated personal position that I don't find the name offensive and do not share Wise's beliefs on the subject. Here's the funny thing: we live in an overly sensitive and overly politically correct world where a good chunk of people get offended by calling it a "Christmas party" instead of a "holiday party" and don't think we should keep score during little league games because we don't want to hurt a child's feelings when his (or her) team loses. And yet, there still isn't enough support to make the Redskins change their name. That's way too easy to try to say this is another example of "poltical correctness run amok." It really doesn't fall in line with your examples at all. It's clearly a racially charged issue for some that goes much deeper than the "I have a right to never be offended" crybabies in society. Let me take your "Christmas Party" argument. I bet you would have no trouble whatsoever (nor would I) going to a Christmas party and saying, "Hey, this is a great Christmas party," even if you knew there was some person there who was "offended" by the term and wanted it called a "holiday" party. But if you see a Native American person, would you feel comfortable saying, "Hey, look, a redskin"? I don't think I would. This issue is deeper than the standard "political correctness" thing. And the lack of support you mention for the name change doesn't really tell the whole story. The Native American population is VERY low in America, less than 2 percent of the entire population, and clearly that's the group that cares the most. Obviously this issue isn't going to register much with the VAST majority of the general public. But hey, I'm not going to tell you how to live your life. I appreciate that. I'm just going to tell you that it's probably a safe bet the Redskins aren't going to change their name during our lifetime. Which suits me just fine. Like I said, I don't find the name offensive, but, as someone who can at least open myself up to reasonable arguments from people who disagree with me, I've thought about this issue a lot and I can understand why some do find it offensive. Clearly Wise is one of those people, and I support his right to make his thoughts heard. Again, it's what I love about this country. That and Long John Silver's hush puppies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 That person did not "educate" you, that person gave you an opinion. One that seems to have left you with less education than you began with. As others have pointed out repeatedly, the majority of Native Americans do not take offense and some even use the name for their own local teams. Sure, there is a minority who truly are offended, but I can't believe you didn't know that so I'm at a loss to see how you were educated. Changing the name to the "Seminoles", "Cherokees", or simply "Raiders" won't make that problem go away, some are offended by any reference to Native Americans. I guess you and I take the word differently. But when she informed me about how many of the "polls" are conducted, and the state of general poverty of many Native Americans in this country, and how a part of that affected this, I did find it educational. Maybe you wouldn't. That 's your choice. But there are facts along this case and all the facts do not side with the team which we happen to support. It was a quintessential clown question. A pot-stirring "journalist" who was just fired from one of his gigs used the weekly press conference to push his own agenda (and by no accident his own name) into the public sphere. If this is a legitimate question why didn't he ask it back in training camp? Why now, did he think the name just changed to Redskins? Sounded to me that he used the "cornball" business as an extremely lame excuse to try making the presser about him and his agenda. Now, this is an OPINION. In his own wording of the question, he related it back to the comments made by the ESPN announcer, which offended many Blacks. Taking the angle of offense he brought up the name which offends many people. But hey, I'm not here to change minds, so do with it what you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskins4ever28 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 All I hear is sensitive people crying about this topic when it comes up. Give me a break. Honestly, have we become a people who every little stupid thing must be changed to be "politically correct?" Honestly, if we are going to go there, then the Fighting Irish need to change their names. Oh, and I think the Cowboys should change their name too. I mean, not everyone from the south is a "cowboy" and I sure find that offensive for THOSE people. While were at it, lets change the Giants name because its offensive to people of a larger nature, and lets change the Patriots name because its offensive to people who are not from this country. What bothers me more than anything is when someone finds something offensive that they have absolutely nothing to do with. Its bad enough when someone finds something so insignificant offensive, but at least if the word or name is about their own culture, then its not as bad. UnWise Mike is the worst type, he finds it offensive and hes not even native american. In all honesty, he just wants to stir up the pot and make his name more relevant. Maybe thats my opinion, but its what I believe. Secondly, can we seriously be more wimpy? I mean come on. Race cards will continue to be played because no one just ignores the stupid subject. Kids today are getting smart. They know that all men were created equal, and they dont even pay attention to stupid insignificant issues like a football teams name. I guarantee if you asked 100 children ages 8-14 if they found our teams name offensive, their answer would be "Wait, why would it be offensive?" The reason is because theyve been taught all our created equal and regardless of what a team name is, its just that, A FOOTBALL TEAM NAME. Nothing more, nothing less. Im Italian/Irish American, and if there was a team name called the "Micks" or the "Greaseskins" it wouldnt offend me at all. I think people need to stop being such cry babies. I mean come on were not allowed to say "Merry Christmas" to our clients at work? Quit crying america. Were the most powerful country in the world supposedly, start acting like we are a little bit tougher than a 5 year old little girl. And honestly, 90% of the people that DO complain about the name, most likely dont even care, they just like to find things to complain about. I love our President, and I think if anything, he has shown that people do need to stop being so sensitive about subjects like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doghouse4x4 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 That and Long John Silver's hush puppies. Now that's something we can all get on board with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Again, if you, Wise or anyone else has a problem, the best way to send a message is to not support and/or cover the Washington Redskins. I'm not saying that to be rude. I'm simply stating the obvious -- by letting your feet do the talking, you're making it clear that this is no longer acceptable to you. If enough people follow suit, change is possible. Otherwise, acts like what Wise did during Griffin's press conference yesterday simply come across as a pathetic "hey, look at me" stunt from a guy who just had his poorly-rated radio show cancelled. I do. I've made certain pledges which I've been able to keep for about 3 years now. Its hard for me not to use the term, but I do try to refer to them as "the Skins" over anything else. I don't buy anything that has the name on it, and because I don't like the logo, I try not to buy anything that has that on it either. And I support Dan Snyder changing the name. Obviously there are different angles to dissent. Like I said, this team is pretty much all I know so I'm not ready to just abandon it yet. I don't think that the only way to change though is through walking away. So until I reach that conclusion, I will try alternative means. And the truth is that I know Skins fans and it didn't have to be Wise asking this question at this time. ANY TIME this concept comes up, we get a mixture of replies like "stop being so sensitive", "its not offensive", "if the name is changed, I will never root for this team again", etc. Mike's not the first and not the last and the next time somebody brings this up, they'll be talked about just the same. But unlike you, I do think that asking questions like the one Wise asked is an integral part of this because - (1) It is interesting to see if the players actually care/think about these issues, - (2) This is an elephant in the room that people from outside the area (or even people inside the area who don't root for the Skins) always bring up, but that Skins fans themselves always try to act like doesn't exist. - (3) As I've found out in my own investigations, many are afraid to bring up this issue because of a certain "mob mentality" that exists in America. So the more people are willing to stand up to that mob the more others will also be willing to stand up to it. That's one of the reasons I started to speak my opinion in this thread rather than let it turn into a hate-fest of UnWise Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themurf Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 And the lack of support you mention for the name change doesn't really tell the whole story. The Native American population is VERY low in America, less than 2 percent of the entire population, and clearly that's the group that cares the most. Obviously this issue isn't going to register much with the VAST majority of the general public. When the Redskins issue went to court, do you know how many native americans were involved? Seven. Even if native americans only represent two percent of the entire population (I have no idea if that number is accurate, but for the purposes of this discussion, I'll go along with it), don't you think they'd be able to rally up more than seven people to fight this if it was really an issue they felt strongly about? If native americans truly believed this was offensive, don't you think they'd at least be able to get eight (or ... gasp ... maybe even nine) people involved in the cause? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D0M0Skins27 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 He had the right to ask the Question, RG3 Had the right not to answer it. Honestly, I think RG3 Knows that THAT question is bigger than him. Your asking him about 80 Years of legacy plus Ownership, Marketing and Everything about it. He just plays QB.. He doesn't control the front office. And honestly, my .02 is that Im bothered by the name changes when it comes to that. My Elementary school used to be "The Indians" and in the neighborhood that I live in, All of the street names are named after Native American Tribes. The Street names didnt change, but the mascot did. Now they are "The Owls" or something like that. Pfft. Lame. I See Native Americans as a powerful, proud and spiritual people. Even tho im African American, I would love to represent them on a field with all of that in mind. I understand using "Blackskin" to make a point. Look at what is at stake here tho. a BILLION DOLLAR franchise. With THAT name on the line. Is the NFL willing to make up for the Losses if they change the name? Is UnWise Mike willing to give his paycheck to the owner to make up for not such a wise business move? The Name will change when the time is right. I Know it will. I can feel it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskins4ever28 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 So for those who know, how does Dan Snyder feel about the teams name? Is he in favor of trying to change it or keep it the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 KK, this is a great, well written article. I'm not familiar with your work but I just bookmarked your blog. Why'd Wise get fired from 106.7? I'd listen to him occasionally, I thought he was alright. However, this question posed to RG3 was dumb and out of line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Why'd Wise get fired from 106.7? I'd listen to him occasionally, I thought he was alright. . Low ratings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reign Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Wow... seriously people!? I live in Texas right now. We have several reservations scattered throughout the state. There's a lot of Cowboy fans among those reservations. They hate the Redskins.. They could give two craps about the name, or any perceived hurt some random person in another state thinks they feel. They dislike the Redskins because we are rivals of their team. (There are Redskins fans too, but they are few and far between). You know who doesn't like the name? Stupid people that have no reason to be in the argument. Stop being offended for other people, especially when they aren't offended. It only makes you look less intelligent. Some people just like drama and need a cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herb mul-key Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 UnWise Mike is a douche and causes me to hate the Washington Post...a paper I have loved since I started reading as a kid in 1975.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mentallyinept Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 I'm game to discuss the topic of the Washington Redskins name, and it's history, but one argument really grinds my gears: Every time that this topic comes up, the inevitable parallel universe metaphor of an NFL team bearing the name of "Blackskins" comes up. I want to say that in no uncertain terms that this argument has absolutely no merit. It's a lazy, uneducated attempt to create a parallel between African American and Native American history and race relations. The two could not be more different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimboDaMan Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 I guess you and I take the word differently. But when she informed me about how many of the "polls" are conducted, and the state of general poverty of many Native Americans in this country, and how a part of that affected this, I did find it educational. Maybe you wouldn't. That 's your choice. But there are facts along this case and all the facts do not side with the team which we happen to support. Totally agree about the woeful state of the Native American community in America. It's a disgrace and a tragedy, mostly an unseen issue because the population is so small and the communities are stuck out where very few people interact with them. I'm a tiny part NA myself, FWIW, and although I don't identify myself that way I do feel for the poverty and hopelessness rampant among Native Americans. My dad is one-quarter NA, which I'm told is as much as some of the loudest mouths complaining about the Redskins. He hates the Redskins, but that's because he's a Patriots fan and has nothing to do with racial politics. The man has bought me more Redskin stuff than anybody other than my wife. Just another opinion for the file. HTTR (I typed that not meaning to be a wiseass, then realized how it could be considered, and finally left it there. Maybe I really am a wiseass) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinklein Posted December 20, 2012 Author Share Posted December 20, 2012 Thanks to everyone for the kind words. I'm glad to see that this conversation has stayed on track for a solid 90 posts, though admittedly I was more interested in UnWise Mike's pedaling of his own political agenda than the facets of said political agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouvan59 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 I agree, it is a legitimate topic, people just don't wanna have to deal with it. And I think people look to a group that supports their opinion and ignore the ones that don't and say "see, 'they' don't care, so why should I?" It may be a legitimate topic but that's not something you blindside RGIII with. If you want to ask him that question you do it in a one-on-one setting. This wasn't a "Get to know RGIII" setting. It was pre-game press conference which should be used to discuss the game and/or his injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFKFedEx Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Thanks to everyone for the kind words. I'm glad to see that this conversation has stayed on track for a solid 90 posts, though admittedly I was more interested in UnWise Mike's pedaling of his own political agenda than the facets of said political agenda. Thanks for posting this. I always find the topic fascinating and it comes up on ES every few months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadExField Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 It may be a legitimate topic but that's not something you blindside RGIII with. If you want to ask him that question you do it in a one-on-one setting. This wasn't a "Get to know RGIII" setting. It was pre-game press conference which should be used to discuss the game and/or his injury. I'd love to get back to football talk, the media is becoming a distraction of it's own. Maybe time to tell them no more pressers for the season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinklein Posted December 20, 2012 Author Share Posted December 20, 2012 I'd love to get back to football talk, the media is becoming a distraction of it's own. Maybe time to tell them no more pressers for the season Pressers are mandatory, a part of every spot. That never has been, nor will it ever be an option. Football is an industry, and the media is a huge part of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaxJoe Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 i cannot speak to your experience, but i will say that mine differs greatly. our opinions dont really matter. native americans opinions do, and, fortunately, they dont have a problem with it. btw, someone told wise that native american schools use the name as their mascot and you know what he said? "those people dont count". but, he does, apparently. nice. I agree with this. I've traveled out west many times and have travelled to indian reservations a bunch. If any sports gear is worn, you will see are a vast majority of native americans wearing Redskins gear followed by the Chiefs. I asked a number of folks over the years and they all say they like the image and the name. This 'offense' is only a myth made up by lefties looking for another cause to protest. I've never met an indian who agrees with the likes of UnWise Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diss Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 When the Redskins issue went to court, do you know how many native americans were involved? Seven. Even if native americans only represent two percent of the entire population (I have no idea if that number is accurate, but for the purposes of this discussion, I'll go along with it), don't you think they'd be able to rally up more than seven people to fight this if it was really an issue they felt strongly about? If native americans truly believed this was offensive, don't you think they'd at least be able to get eight (or ... gasp ... maybe even nine) people involved in the cause? It's very easy to check the accuracy of the number I mentioned. The internet is very helpful these days, so I hear. It's actually less than 2 percent (1.6), but I rounded it up. And are you SERIOUSLY suggesting that there were/are only seven Native Americans who care about this issue because that's the amount that represented the issue in court? Really? You honestly think there are only seven people "involved in the cause"? I don't even know how to respond to that. At the 1992 Super Bowl in MN alone, just as an example, there were close to 2,000 Native Americans who protested the name. You said earlier that nothing came out of the efforts these people have made in court. Again, not true. In 1999, they got judges to cancel federal trademarks of the Redskins name “on the grounds that the subject marks may disparage Native Americans and may bring them into contempt or disrepute.” The ruling was subsequently overturned, but hardly say that was "nothing." If you're going to try to fight someone (Wise) who you consider a sensationalist pushing his own agenda, then at least be armed with the right facts so that you don't end up falling in the same category. The thing is, as I continue to stress, I generally agree with you on the name and whether or not it's "offensive," I simply believe that this issue goes deeper than the standard "everyone in America's too sensitive" response, and I totally get why Wise would use this time to ask a question about an issue that he's always (unpopularly) addressed. I find the uproar about the fact that he asked this ridiculous. It doesn't affect my excitement about what the team is doing at all. If you don't agree with him, have the stones to say why and move along. It's the whole, "How dare he ask this" that strikes me as very, dare I say it, un-American. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 This 'offense' is only a myth made up by lefties looking for another cause to protest. . Speaking of myths... Seriously, ignorance like this is ridiculous. These aren't "liberals' looking for a reason to complain. The base of this are money and publicity grubbing LAWYERS wanting to cash in. And last I checked, sleaze knows no partisanship. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bibby Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 UnWise Mike is a moron for asking such a question during an interview dealing with RGIII gameday status. I'd be shocked if Griffin ever gives him a personal one-on-one interview after that baiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grhqofb5 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 This may have been posted previously (in one of the hundreds of threads on this topic), but here it is. Take it for what it's worth. http://www.annenbergpublicpolicycenter.org/downloads/political_communication/naes/2004_03_redskins_09-24_pr.pdf Most Indians Say Name of Washington “Redskins” Is Acceptable While 9 Percent Call It Offensive, Annenberg Data Show Most American Indians say that calling Washington’s professional football team the “Redskins” does not bother them, the University of Pennsylvania’s National Annenberg Election Survey shows. Ninety percent of Indians took that position, while 9 percent said they found the name “offensive.” One percent had no answer. The margin of sampling error for those findings was plus or minus two percentage points. Because they make up a very small proportion of the total population, the responses of 768 people who said they were Indians or Native Americans were collected over a very long period of polling, from October 7, 2003 through September 20, 2004. They included Indians from every state except Alaska and Hawaii, where the Annenberg survey does not interview. The question that was put to them was “The professional football team in Washington calls itself the Washington Redskins. As a Native American, do you find that name offensive or doesn’t it bother you?” _______ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SittingBull Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Wise is a hack plain and simple. His motivation is to stir up **** not write good articles. He sounds even sadder trying to be a radio host. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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