kevinklein Posted December 20, 2012 Author Share Posted December 20, 2012 Wise is a hack plain and simple. His motivation is to stir up **** not write good articles. He sounds even sadder trying to be a radio host. Well, he won't be doing that any longer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 The base of this are money and publicity grubbing LAWYERS wanting to cash in. DING DING DING! We have a winner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 - (3) As I've found out in my own investigations, many are afraid to bring up this issue because of a certain "mob mentality" that exists in America. So the more people are willing to stand up to that mob the more others will also be willing to stand up to it. That's one of the reasons I started to speak my opinion in this thread rather than let it turn into a hate-fest of UnWise Mike. i think its a noble thing to go against the grain, or stand from something when seemingly everyone is against you. there are beliefs i hold where i feel the same way. i dont see this as one of them, however i'm sure there are some redskins fans that dont want to change the name for nothing more than tradition, regardless of the facts. i have given the other side of this argument creedence, at least until i stated looking into the name and how native americans actually felt about it. it was their thoughts ('their' overwhelmingly- again- not "all", of course) on the name that have caused me to defend it, not traditionalist white people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadExField Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Pressers are mandatory, a part of every spot. That never has been, nor will it ever be an option. Football is an industry, and the media is a huge part of it. I totally understand that. Wishful thinking on my end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themurf Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 If you don't agree with him, have the stones to say why and move along. That's the thing, UnWise Mike brings this up every year or so and, even though nothing ever comes of it, he can't get to that whole "move along" step. He's on record as saying he doesn't agree with it and he's said why. That apparently means he's got stones, in your eyes. Whatever. But then he doesn't ever move along. So just because he doesn't get the reaction he likes, the rest of us are going to be subjected to the same tired song and dance for as long as he remains employed in the area? If that's the case, I'm sorry but I really hope the newspaper industry takes another nosedive sooner rather than later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadExField Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 That's the thing, UnWise Mike brings this up every year or so and, even though nothing ever comes of it, he can't get to that whole "move along" step. He's on record as saying he doesn't agree with it and he's said why. That apparently means he's got stones, in your eyes. Whatever. But then he doesn't ever move along. So just because he doesn't get the reaction he likes, the rest of us are going to be subjected to the same tired song and dance for as long as he remains employed in the area? If that's the case, I'm sorry but I really hope the newspaper industry takes another nosedive sooner rather than later. I love me some D.C., but D.C. media can take a hike down the long path, with no water, or compass, or gps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins4life88 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 I didn't like UnWise Mike all that much but why did he do that. It was the same type of question that got this whole ESPN First Take thing going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 I'd love to get back to football talk, the media is becoming a distraction of it's own. Maybe time to tell them no more pressers for the season I agree. So tired of this annual argument. It gets nowhere and goes nowhere. I just want...for one damn minute to finally enjoy talking about the Redskins winning football games. But it seems like everytime something positive happens with this team, either the league, media, fans or something stupid has to rain on the parade. So sick of this. I just want to enjoy football again. That's all I want. Can we just enjoy winning? Can we just enjoy the best time of our team for the first time in 20 years? Is it too much to ask all the people who hate the name to just shove it where the sun don't shine for one godamn season so we can enjoy football? Seriously. Get bent! ---------- Post added December-20th-2012 at 01:12 PM ---------- I find the uproar about the fact that he asked this ridiculous. It doesn't affect my excitement about what the team is doing at all. If you don't agree with him, have the stones to say why and move along. It's the whole, "How dare he ask this" that strikes me as very, dare I say it, un-American. But who in the blue hell is UnWise Mike for bringing this up? Why does a middle aged white man need to feel like he should be the voice of Native Americans? I want to hear it from the horses mouth. I want 100% full blooded Native Americans to come out and say it, not UnWise Mike. He has no horse in this race. His opinion is moot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lakerskinz Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 If you spoke to one Native American, that doesn't give you much perspective. I posted on here a while ago a poll that found 91% of Native Americans have no problem with the name. In fact, many Native American schools have the name Redskin and use the logo. The problem we have here, is that people want only one answer....does it offend or not? Well, it is going to offend some and not others so there is no one answer. So what do you do? In my opinion, we keep the name. If you know the team history, you know where the name came from and what it represents. That leaves the people who don't like it free to have nothing to do with the team and those of us it doesn't bother to keep using the name. The notion that we have to change things if one person or a small number of people are offended is absurd. If you did that, nothing could be named anything because one person is always going to be offended by something. And for the record, my sister in law is one eigth Sauk Indian and my soon to be wife(next week) in one quarter Cherokee. Both have no problem with the name. They both realize that the name has been used as a slur, but also know how the team was named so that is why they have no problem with it. We, as a nation, need to get back to the path of common sense and realize that not everyone is going to be happy with everything and that is just the way it is. I am also 1/4 Native American(Apache),and have no problem with the name.I think that was why I became a fan.It was explained to me by my Grandfather which was 100% Apache,that it meant no disrepect(at least in his eyes), and that it felt great to have a well established sports franchise recongnize the first people of this country.So to him it was an honor,not disrepectful at all to him or the rest of my family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Totally agree about the woeful state of the Native American community in America. It's a disgrace and a tragedy, mostly an unseen issue because the population is so small and the communities are stuck out where very few people interact with them. I'm a tiny part NA myself, FWIW, and although I don't identify myself that way I do feel for the poverty and hopelessness rampant among Native Americans. My dad is one-quarter NA, which I'm told is as much as some of the loudest mouths complaining about the Redskins. He hates the Redskins, but that's because he's a Patriots fan and has nothing to do with racial politics. The man has bought me more Redskin stuff than anybody other than my wife. Just another opinion for the file. HTTR (I typed that not meaning to be a wiseass, then realized how it could be considered, and finally left it there. Maybe I really am a wiseass) Cool points. I'll just add one point that relates to your topic and also to the polls that people are referencing. What defines a Native American? I mean, Elizabeth Warren just had a whole controversy in the senate debate a few months back because she was claiming to be such. I'm not sure the full extent of that story, but there are a lot of stories of people who claim this heritage and are just typical White guys or Black gals or whatever else. And a lot of what's being fed to us as "the opinion" of a certain group of people is being fed to us by the people conducting the polls. And it doesn't really serve their interests to certify anyone's heritage, all a lot of them care about is the end result - the same thing a lot of people have quoted today - that 90% number, with little interest in how these polls were actually conducted, the actual wording of questions asked, or several other things. Here's an excerpt from an NPR interview on the subject: entitled Who Gets to Decide Who is-Native American "CAPRICCIOSO: Right. Well, some are very outraged because they feel like this is just another example that has happened now throughout history of people coming in and trying to get the benefits of being an Indian without having faced the hardships that their family might have experienced in the past and their ancestors might have experienced. So, on that level, some are very outraged. Others are very willing to give Elizabeth Warren a pass on this. They see her as a person who might be sympathetic to Native American issues, especially if she considers herself Native American. In the future, she might be a good ally. So they don't want to be too hard on her, necessarily. But I think every Indian, when questions of native identity come up, you get warning signs in your brain. How much can you trust this person? And so a good way to help foster that trust would be to talk more with those people who have those kinds of concerns and..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WheresRickySanders83 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 UnWise Mike has always been a sanctimonious, thin-skinned, unprofessional clown. During the Jason Campbell era, he would actually admit that he couldn't write about JC objectively because JC was so nice to him. Awww! Jason Campbell had something like 40-50 starts to prove his worth and Wise, to the end, was treating the guy with kid gloves, sucking his ass, and making excuses for him. An absolutely ridiculous writer. I have no doubt that he'll read this thread and rage about it from home, claiming that the world is out to get him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 UnWise Mike is the WORST. A grenade-thrower, nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemocystem Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 the ridiculousness of this annual argument is this......sports names are meant to be a source or means of intimidation. a name that's meant to bear respect among foes & place fear into the hearts & minds of your enemies. now...this is sports, so i believe all names fall short on the fear-factor, as it were......but. i myself am Chirakawa Apache, as was my Grandfather & Grandmother on my Father's side. i have many other relatives that i see on a yearly basis that are much more "ethnic" than i am. i can tell you that we all look at it the same way... a) who the eff cares....there are much more important things to worry about in life...what someone calls someone else is unimportant. unless of course you call us "Indians." that's MUCH more ignorant than Redskin. one actually applies. forgetting historical anecdotes (like Redskins actually being a tribesname <not in English of course>, or the name being a reference to the Boston Tea-Partiers who dressed up with red paint) for a few minutes..........we generally consider the name an honor. that it would be chosen to represent a franchise in professional sports as their honor-guard, so to speak, & the symbol to all as their chosen reputation. furthermore....as they succeed to build a well-represented tradition, all negative connotations go out the window. c) to us...celebrating Thanksgiving or Columbus day are exponentially more offensive than a team chosing to represent their glorious franchise & tradition upon a nation of people. to be honest...naming a team "blackskins" wouldn't be all that bad either if it weren't for all the uppity people of this world. if you used another term that started with an N then i would see your point...but representing a person factually by their outward appearance is not a negative imho..........while it can be if used as a derogatory means, it usually is a way to describe a person much like one would describe a house or car by its color. i really can't say enough that this issue for most of us comes down to a badge of honor more than it does any negative connotation. it's more offensive that people who are not of Native descent would continue to push to make this an issue without any relevant opinions being given by the tribesmen/women of America. the things that are more annoying than this name or logo are as follows: 1) the aformentioned holidays, 2) the Tomahawk chop, 3) non-natives drumming or dancing as to attempt to mimic Native dance, 4) people taking up a cause for our part without us imploring for such assistance. all this being said...in our world with the PC police run amok as has been the case, i fully expect that within my lifetime our team will have to change its chosen monniker. in some ways i am beginning to wish the F/O would just take the initiative in the matter instead of waiting to have their hand forced & make a move to a more "acceptable" nickname. something i have considered would be changing the name to say "Warriors" & going with a more forward-thinking approach like the Oregon Ducks. we could have multiple uniform sets, like say a camoflauge uni to represent modern warriors, a spartan or roman-esque uni, a Native uni.......& basically represent multiple, varying forms of "Warriors" throughout history. or, we could maybe even just keep them American in nature, i.e.....natives, colonials, modern, black-ops........you get the idea. it would make us even more unique & would give us a real opportunity to boost creativity within the NFL community. just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WheresRickySanders83 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 It's also somewhat offensive to assume that minorities should be spokespersons for all racial matters. "Oooo, so you're a black QB for the Redskins, which qualifies you to address this topic!" Wise is the paternalistic white guy who bombards his black "friends" with questions about race, assuming that they have some sort of mystical knowledge about race that he couldn't possibly figure out on his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diss Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 That's the thing, UnWise Mike brings this up every year or so and, even though nothing ever comes of it, he can't get to that whole "move along" step. He's on record as saying he doesn't agree with it and he's said why. That apparently means he's got stones, in your eyes. Whatever. But then he doesn't ever move along. So just because he doesn't get the reaction he likes, the rest of us are going to be subjected to the same tired song and dance for as long as he remains employed in the area? You are looking at this all wrong. When someone feels there is a societal injustice going on, and they feel passionate about that fact, it's almost never enough for them to say, "I disagree with this, but that's the last I'll say about it." And thank goodness that's the case, otherwise change would NEVER happen. When you believe in something like that strongly and passionately, you keep making your case until either you can get enough people on your side to effect change or you become frustrated at the lack of support and eventually give up. Clearly Wise isn't at the latter point yet. The "express your disagreement and move along" comment applies to people who just aren't affected or simply don't care about the issue being presented. My issue was that there's so much outrage here that he even brought up the question. I say, respond to his question with solid reasons why you disagree and move along. To me, that's a much more effective counter to his argument than saying, "How dare you even ask this?" Again, that's my issue with this thread. I don't think that's fair. That probably just emboldens his martyr complex even more. It's the burden of UnWise Mike and the people he claims to represent to make you feel differently, but he should still have the right, within reason, to make his case as often as he wants. If the whole Rob Parker thing hadn't happened, I would have more of an issue with him bringing the question up out of the blue, but in light of that occurrence, I thought it was a totally understandable and valid time for Mike to bring up his long-argued point again. There was some sort of understandable segue there in my view. ---------- Post added December-20th-2012 at 03:39 PM ---------- But who in the blue hell is UnWise Mike for bringing this up? Why does a middle aged white man need to feel like he should be the voice of Native Americans? I want to hear it from the horses mouth. I want 100% full blooded Native Americans to come out and say it, not UnWise Mike. He has no horse in this race. His opinion is moot. I totally agree that his opinion is pretty worthless without a large portion of the Native American community backing it up, and clearly they don't. But I have no problem with him expressing his opinion about something that doesn't immediately affect his race. Everybody should be willing to do that if they see something in society they disagree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonoman Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 If it were not for the Football team who the hell would even think about any Indians? When i see the logo i then realize they suffered and lost all they had.Now they have casino's and are doing pretty good.Life moves on and being conquered is part of history.I think the name and logo are just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diss Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 If it were not for the Football team who the hell would even think about any Indians? You should send that to Redskins PR man Tony Wylie. His next press release needs to start with this line. Hell, ALL of his press releases should start with this line! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdskn4eva Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 If it were not for the Football team who the hell would even think about any Indians? When i see the logo i then realize they suffered and lost all they had.Now they have casino's and are doing pretty good.Life moves on and being conquered is part of history.I think the name and logo are just fine. lol...Native Americansm, man lol..."Now they have casino's..." I lol'd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinklein Posted December 20, 2012 Author Share Posted December 20, 2012 You are looking at this all wrong. When someone feels there is a societal injustice going on, and they feel passionate about that fact, it's almost never enough for them to say, "I disagree with this, but that's the last I'll say about it." And thank goodness that's the case, otherwise change would NEVER happen. When you believe in something like that strongly and passionately, you keep making your case until either you can get enough people on your side to effect change or you become frustrated at the lack of support and eventually give up. Clearly Wise isn't at the latter point yet. The "express your disagreement and move along" comment applies to people who just aren't affected or simply don't care about the issue being presented. My issue was that there's so much outrage here that he even brought up the question. I say, respond to his question with solid reasons why you disagree and move along. To me, that's a much more effective counter to his argument than saying, "How dare you even ask this?" Again, that's my issue with this thread. I don't think that's fair. That probably just emboldens his martyr complex even more. It's the burden of UnWise Mike and the people he claims to represent to make you feel differently, but he should still have the right, within reason, to make his case as often as he wants. If the whole Rob Parker thing hadn't happened, I would have more of an issue with him bringing the question up out of the blue, but in light of that occurrence, I thought it was a totally understandable and valid time for Mike to bring up his long-argued point again. There was some sort of understandable segue there in my view. ---------- Post added December-20th-2012 at 03:39 PM ---------- I totally agree that his opinion is pretty worthless without a large portion of the Native American community backing it up, and clearly they don't. But I have no problem with him expressing his opinion about something that doesn't immediately affect his race. Everybody should be willing to do that if they see something in society they disagree with. My point in writing this wasn't that Wise doesn't have the right to voice his beliefs. My point was that this is the most exciting time to be covering the Redskins since Wise came on board with the Post in 2004. Yesterday's conference with RG3 was the most anticipated presser of the year. And what does Wise choose to do? Make an effort to pedal his own politics, which Griffin thankfully shot down. That's hack journalism. There's a million wonderful narratives that Wise could have thrived on. Instead he came away with nothing, because he got no material for something he's already beaten into the earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diss Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 My point in writing this wasn't that Wise doesn't have the right to voice his beliefs. My point was that this is the most exciting time to be covering the Redskins since Wise came on board with the Post in 2004. Yesterday's conference with RG3 was the most anticipated presser of the year. And what does Wise choose to do? Make an effort to pedal his own politics, which Griffin thankfully shot down. That's hack journalism. There's a million wonderful narratives that Wise could have thrived on. Instead he came away with nothing, because he got no material for something he's already beaten into the earth. Again, I'd agree with you if the Rob Parker thing hadn't happened. Because it did, and because that had been addressed a lot last week, I thought it was understandable that Mike asked his question when he did and I don't have a problem with it. I like to see people challenged, even if I may not agree with or be rooting for the challenger. Oh, and "he came away with nothing"? This thread alone proves that's not the case. He got people talking once again about his issue. That's probably all he could've hoped for. Mission accomplished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMUSkins Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Again, I'd agree with you if the Rob Parker thing hadn't happened. Because it did, and because that had been addressed a lot last week, I thought it was understandable that Mike asked his question when he did and I don't have a problem with it. I like to see people challenged, even if I may not agree with or be rooting for the challenger. But what relevance does it have to.... anything? Because RG3 was attacked by a racist ******* we need to know about his feelings on the Redskins name? That's a leap.... and a load of crap. Wise asked b/c his radio show got canned and he's looking for attention to justify his existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 I totally agree that his opinion is pretty worthless without a large portion of the Native American community backing it up, and clearly they don't. But I have no problem with him expressing his opinion about something that doesn't immediately affect his race. Everybody should be willing to do that if they see something in society they disagree with. Fine, but he needs to do it on his own time. Write a side piece on the subject if it bothers him so much. The point of the whole thing is: 1) Robert Griffin is not Native American, so his opinion doesn't matter and 2) We're at the end of the season trying to wrap up a playoff spot. Time and place man, time and place. It wasn't the time and it's not his place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskins4ever28 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Again, I'd agree with you if the Rob Parker thing hadn't happened. Because it did, and because that had been addressed a lot last week, I thought it was understandable that Mike asked his question when he did and I don't have a problem with it. I like to see people challenged, even if I may not agree with or be rooting for the challenger.Oh, and "he came away with nothing"? This thread alone proves that's not the case. He got people talking once again about his issue. That's probably all he could've hoped for. Mission accomplished. Agree to disagree guys, and drop it. I think its such a dumb thing anymore. I hope the name stays forever, I really do. Just so people have something to argue about. Also, Diss, are you the UnWise Mike everyones talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diss Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Agree to disagree guys, and drop it. I think its such a dumb thing anymore. I hope the name stays forever, I really do. Just so people have something to argue about.Also, Diss, are you the UnWise Mike everyones talking about? Far from it. Like you, I hope the name stays and have no problems with it. I also won't miss his radio show. But I'm of the "I may not agree with your views, but I'll fight to protect your right to say them" mindset. If this thread was about whether or not the name "Redskin" was racist, I wouldn't be here defending Wise. To me, the thread seemed to be about whether he had the right to say what he said when he said it. I say he did. Made for an interesting presser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinklein Posted December 20, 2012 Author Share Posted December 20, 2012 Again, I'd agree with you if the Rob Parker thing hadn't happened. Because it did, and because that had been addressed a lot last week, I thought it was understandable that Mike asked his question when he did and I don't have a problem with it. I like to see people challenged, even if I may not agree with or be rooting for the challenger.Oh, and "he came away with nothing"? This thread alone proves that's not the case. He got people talking once again about his issue. That's probably all he could've hoped for. Mission accomplished. The correlation between Rob Parker's comments and the "controversy" surrounding the Redskins name is about as tenuous as ancient Mayan credibility. Perhaps there is a bridge between the two, but it's decrepit, missing planks and doesn't have handholds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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