Kilmer17's roadmap to fix the GOP

[Larry]

Bonds are debt for the issuer.

Yes. That was my point.

[PleaseBlitz]

Yes. That was my point.

Sorry, I thought you said they DON'T count as being in debt. Upon a closer read, I got you.

[twa]

Yes. That was my point.

Does that mean SS is in debt?

I'm confused

[Larry]

Does that mean SS is in debt?

I'm confused

Yeah. I honestly believe that the difference between borrowing money, and loaning it, confuses you.

[twa]

when the taxpayers are on the hook for paying both back that does muddy the water a bit.

In my loansharking days it was much simpler

[Elessar78]

Regardless, if it's merely a matter of definition as to whether a state is in debt or not, it's pretty obvious that they don't have funds in hand to "pay as you go".

---------- Post added March-24th-2013 at 09:28 PM ----------

I'll keep saying it, the GOP is unfixable. Whatever changes the GOP hopes to make goes soundly against the views of their base. The only way the base will change is to have on their candidates actually get the nomination and then get soundly rejected by the country.

The GOP is slowly becoming a non-viable alternative. At the presidential level; I will say they are almost there already. Eventually, that will start trickling down to the state and local level.

I know you're being a realist and it's hard to argue with your position, but this is the kind of thinking that Progressives have to be careful about. It's easy to push too far left and lose the moderate voters.

[twa]

Regardless, if it's merely a matter of definition as to whether a state is in debt or not, it's pretty obvious that they don't have funds in hand to "pay as you go".

a fixed rate loan that repayment must be budgeted for is considered pay as you go

[Larry]

a fixed rate loan that repayment must be budgeted for is considered pay as you go

As opposed to t-bills, which pay a fixed rate, and whose repayemt is mandated in the US Constitution.

[twa]

see what I mean?

[JMS]

The difference in the popular vote was less than 3% of the total votes cast.

That's still 3.3 million.

Or, more than 21 states individual populations (including for some perspective, Iowa).

So the popular vote in 2012 as now being calculated is actually closer to 4%...

Obama 51.1%

Romney 47.2%

Here is why that is so important. If the margin is close an argument can be made that the GOP isn't disfunctional and with modest tweaking they can reclaim power.

No need to rearchitect the ship just rearragne the deck chairs...

Here is why I think regardless of how close the voting results, the GOP should re-organize their platform.. Whatever the delta, the margin of victory of this last 2012 race is skewed...

1. They've lost 5 out of the last 6 popular elections for president.
   
2. Obama was a historically weak president facing headwinds of 8% and higher unemployment for most of his incumbancy, historically weak economy, historically sustained large deficits, etc... There is no way Obama should have been in the race. The GOP should have been able to run Al Bundy against Obama and won in 2012.
   
3. The increased importance in minority votes, and the fact the GOP core message hasn't been very sucessful in attracting minorities even when those folks share significant values with voters the GOP is sucessful in appealing too.
   
4. Demographically the amaizing increased support for gay mariages especially in younger voters, including young voters who self identify as GOP conservative,
   

Obama's message in 2012 wasn't merely more appealing to more folks than Mitt Romney's. For a very large segment of independents and moderates the GOP wasn't even an option.

For all these reasons I think 2012 election results are merely the tip of the iceberg for the GOP. They need to tac back to the center a bit. They need to increase their appeal to moderates and independents. They need to refocus..

---------- Post added March-25th-2013 at 01:10 PM ----------

a fixed rate loan that repayment must be budgeted for is considered pay as you go

Pay as you go typically reffers to a period when we have no deficits and are paying for the entire budget including debt payments with available revenue... The period under Clinton when the budget was balanced was called "pay as you go plan".. This doesn't mean no T-bills are issued during this period because in such a period T-bills could remain a viable option for short term liquidity if not long term debt vehicles.

[twa]

Pay as you go typically reffers to a period when we have no deficits and are paying for the entire budget including debt payments with available revenue...

yes, that is what I said

debt is not considered deficit spending....not budgeting payment for debt is

[Larry]

Yahoo: North Dakota governor approves 6-week abortion ban

BISMARCK, N.D. (AP) — Gov. Jack Dalrymple signed legislation Tuesday that that would make North Dakota the nation's most restrictive state on abortion rights, banning the procedure if a fetal heartbeat can be detected — something that can happen as early as six weeks into a pregnancy.

The Republican governor also signed into law another measure that would makes North Dakota the first to ban abortions based on genetic defects such as Down syndrome, and a measure that requires a doctor who performs abortions to be a physician with hospital-admitting privileges.

The measures, which would take effect Aug. 1, are fueled in part by an attempt to close the state's sole abortion clinic in Fargo. Dalrymple, in a statement, said the so-called fetal heartbeat bill is a direct challenge to the U.S. Supreme Court's 1973 Roe v. Wade ruling that legalized abortion up until a fetus is considered viable, usually at 22 to 24 weeks.

Arkansas passed a 12-week ban earlier this month that prohibits most abortions when a fetal heartbeat can be detected using an abdominal ultrasound. That ban is scheduled to take effect 90 days after the Arkansas Legislature adjourns.

The Republican-led North Dakota Legislature has endorsed a spate of anti-abortion Legislation this year. North Dakota lawmakers moved last week to outlaw abortion in the state by passing a resolution defining life as starting at conception, essentially banning abortion in the state. The measure is likely to come before voters in November 2014.

Representatives also endorsed another anti-abortion bills last week that is awaiting Dalrymple's signature. It would ban abortions after 20 weeks of pregnancy based on the disputed premise that fetuses feel pain at that point.

[Larry]

Yahoo: GOP lawmaker calls Hispanic workers ‘wetbacks’

During a discussion about ongoing challenges to the economy Thursday, Alaska Republican Rep. Don Young referred to Hispanic workers as "wetbacks," an ethnic slur used to describe migrant workers.

“My father had a ranch; we used to have 50-60 wetbacks to pick tomatoes,” Young told Alaska public radio station KRBD. “It takes two people to pick the same tomatoes now. It’s all done by machine.”

The term "wetback" is a pejorative term that has been used to describe workers from Latin American countries who swim across the Rio Grande to reach the United States.

Probably cost him the Alaskan illegal Mexican immigrant vote.

[twa]

[

Probably cost him the Alaskan illegal Mexican immigrant vote.

LOL

We always used the term for the new arrivals,had another for the locals and one for the domestic migrants.

beats calling them all Pablo

[Jumbo]

Don Young was a scumbag from his beginnings. My dumbass relative worked for him in his early days, and I could get in legal trouble for posting what I know about the lizard. Not surprised he's been a successful GOP figure. Alaska has a history of political idiocy even before statehood, and after in its choices from both major parties and a few independents.

[greenspandan]

he's going with the "i didn't know wetback was a racial slur" defense, which is even less plausible than when george "macaca" allen tried it.

[Jumbo]

I'm glad I don't have the power to "fix" the GOP, even though I have a much improved track record in more recent years for peacefully and promptly working past more unfriendly choices of action.

[JMS]

I'm glad I don't have the power to "fix" the GOP, even though I have a much improved track record in more recent years for peacefully and promptly working past more unfriendly choices of action.

I really think "fixing them" is going to take more than loosing the Presidential election consistently by a narrow margin. It's going to take an across the board shellacking like they experienced after Hover where they lost house, senate, governorships and Presidential elections for more than a decade. Even while adopting the same platform as the new deal democrats.

When that happens moderates will be empowered to stand up to the fringe elements and push back on some of their more stupid positions. The mechanization which insure equilibrium between the parties will come under full effectiveness.

[Jumbo]

I really think "fixing them" is going to take more than loosing the Presidential election consistently by a narrow margin. It's going to take an across the board shellacking like they experienced after Hover where they lost house, senate, governorships and Presidential elections for more than a decade. Even while adopting the same platform as the new deal democrats.

When that happens moderates will be empowered to stand up to the fringe elements and push back on some of their more stupid positions. The mechanization which insure equilibrium between the parties will come under full effectiveness.

It would greatly benefit our society and country if they could challenge the competing political demographics with way less crazy/ignorance/bigotry while continuing to focus on responsible spending, hard work ethic, maximizing self-sufficiency, local community emphasis/responsibility in providing social support systems, less (unneeded, counter-productive) government intrusiveness etc., all minus the selective application/hypocrisy so commonly found these days among their party in even those "classic conservative" ideals .

[MartinC]

yes, that is what I said

debt is not considered deficit spending....not budgeting payment for debt is

It's surprising to me the number of people including political commentators and politicians who seem not to understand the difference between debt and deficit - or at least seem not to by their comments.

[twa]

It's surprising to me the number of people including political commentators and politicians who seem not to understand the difference between debt and deficit - or at least seem not to by their comments.

It certainly is surprising, of course improperly budgeting resulting in deficit spending differs from debt properly allowed/budgeted for.

[MartinC]

It certainly is surprising, of course improperly budgeting resulting in deficit spending differs from debt properly allowed/budgeted for.

Oh I totally agree. Politicians of all stripes seem to lack the courage to really tackle eliminating deficit spending even gradually at a meaningful rate let alone paying down debt. Those on the left still cling to the idea you can spend your way to sustainable growth and are attached to the idea that Governments can create wealth.

[Son of Gadsden]

I disagree. With just about all of it. Maybe you sway enough stupid people to think the Republicans are now back to what they were supposed to be, but it will only be because they don't know any better.

You're essentially saying don't nominate stupid people. Both parties consistently do it, the democrats just for some strange reason don't get called out for it. People like Biden get laughed off as some jester in the white house. If the Republicans get rid of the "crazies" there will only be a handful left standing...Rand, Cruz....maybe Rubio, though I'm not a fan. What's the point of even keeping the party at that point?

Abortion I don't disagree with the idea, but I disagree with the principle. You're essentially saying, "Bend, because it's a major thing the Dems have over you." The Republicans need to distance themselves from the Dems, they are too close to becoming them as it is. That's why they've backed the GOP in the corner as it is. The GOP has become spineless. However, abortion does need to be dropped. It shouldn't be an argument in the first place. It should be in state senates, not DC as a national debate UNLESS we're talking amendment. If we want to solve it all together, the parties come together on an exact time that a fetus becomes a human. They set that time, they make it and amendment. At the point, the fetus gains person-hood and is protected as a citizen. Problem solved. But assuming this fairytale does not happen, it needs to be dropped to the states, and the republicans in the states need to work with democrats on making amendments to the state Constitutions on the same principles. There is a major flaw in the republican logic on this subject, that's why they are having problems. The republicans want to come out and say "We have faith in the people to govern themselves! They don't need to government to do everything for them!" Except....apparently they'll murder all their children if the state doesn't put a gun to their head. You can't assume the American people are responsible, good decision makers when it's convenient, then treat them like sheep that need to be herded in the right direction on other issues. Pick one. Let's get back to "keep the government out of our lives", rather than "keep the democrats out of our lives!"

If amnesty happens, the Republicans will never win another election. You're talking about rewarding people who abuse the system and ignore our laws, rather than the people who fill out the paperwork and enter the right way. They'll do the same thing with benefits and welfare. Democrats give out way more free stuff than Republicans. That's no secret.

Which leads us to the next point: spending and taxes. Oh, they definitely talk the talk about taxes and spending, but they don't do much walking. The Republicans would love to cut Obamacare, yes.....so they can move that money to "defense" spending and providing some more good ol' American exceptionalism to the rest of the world. The Republicans need to stop with hypocrisy on spending. They're quite good at spending tax dollars themselves, if not as good as the Democrats. They don't hand out free stuff though, McCain and his goons which much rather carry on with their imperialist agendas. You cut the "defense" spending (which is far from defense, for the most part). You demolish these bases overseas, you decrease this ridiculous amount of personnel overseas, cut the foreign aid crap, stop giving guns to maniacs, stop bombing countries that have nothing to do with us, yada yada yada. Do that along with cutting the money the Dems have been spending, and I'll be impressed.

The worst part of the GOP is they do indeed paint themselves as extremist, yet act the complete opposite. They speak out about the crap that doesn't matter like gay marriage and abortion, yet bend to liberal ideals on things they should have a friggin' spine about.

The things that are truly important? Like reading the Constitution for a change? The whole point of conservatism is SUPPOSED TO BE following the Constitution and it's original ideals to what the founders' ratified intent was. They have been doing anything but that. Marriage shouldn't be in the governments' hands at all, but if it must be, it's in the hands of the states. Abortion, I already mentioned. The founders didn't even want to be allies with England at first because of fear that they would gain England's enemies. Thomas Jefferson swore until the day he died that meddling in Europe's affairs would be the death of America. The Constitution if very much geared towards keeping our noses out of other countries' business. At this point, we've gotten so far away from it, and pissed so many people off, I have no idea how to get out of it at this point. The ideals of conservatism are just about completely FUBAR at this point, I don't have much hope...and apparently neither does anyone else since the GOP can't control anything but the House. It's folks like Rand who hold the fate of conservatism in their hands, and it this point, the best solution to me seems to be putting the GOP out of it's misery and raising a new party. The GOP cares only for controlling the social aspects of Americans' lives, and policing/controlling the rest of the world as well. As long as that happens, their target voters are just going to get more and more annoyed.

[@DCGoldPants]

Young/Cruz '16.

"Maybe if we offend everybody, we really haven't offended anybody"

[Larry]

Maybe the first step on repairing the GOP would be to disown Arizona?

Yahoo: Arizona lawmakers back gold, silver as currency

PHOENIX (AP) -- Arizona lawmakers say the global economy is on the precipice of financial ruin and the U.S. dollar could soon be worth less than the paper used to make it.

These doomsayers are pushing forward legislation that would declare privately minted gold and silver coins legal tender, no different under state law than the U.S. dollar printed by the federal Department of Treasury.

The measure is Arizona's latest jab at the federal government, which prohibits states from minting their own money. It also reflects a growing distrust of government-backed money.

"The public sees the value in it," said Republican Rep. Steve Smith, of Maricopa. "This is the type of currency we have had over the history of mankind."

The bill, which advanced in a 4-2 vote by a House committee Monday, states that gold and silver should be legal currency not subject to tax or regulation as property. The Republican-led Senate gave the bill its blessing in February in a 17-11 partisan vote.