A Qualitative Side by Side Analysis of our Defense: 2011 vs 2012.

[Vilandil Tasardur]

So. We've all heard it here a thousand times. We've all spewed the same crap, over and over and over. It's the secondary! Hall is "hot garbage!" Williams doesn't deserve a uniform. But let's think about it. Let's honestly look at least year's D, and this year's D, and ask ourselves.

What the **** changed?

Well, let's begin with that secondary, since we're so convinced. Everyone here is just so sure it's the safety play.

Safeties:

2011: Atogwe, Doughty, and Landry

2012: Williams, Doughty, Gomes (Obvious injury/suspension)

So, this year we're obviously hurting because of the injury to Brandon and the suspension. Last year, we opened up with Atogwe and Landry. However, Landry only played in 8 games. Atogwe played in 13, but only started 8. Can anyone remind me who played for these guys? I cannot find a list of their replacements for the life of me.

No matter how I slice it, this one is a push for me. Landry hardly ever saw the field, Atogwe was hardly effective when he was there. I can't even remember their backups. Still, because I know no one will agree with me. We'll call this one 2011.

Corners:

2011: Barnes, Buchannon, Hall, Westbrook, Wilson

2012: Bernstein, Crawford, Griffin, Hall, Jones, Pugh, Wilson

There's no way you can convince me we were better with 2011's corners. Buchanon was a better number 3, but Hall and Wilson have NOT regressed in my opinion. I just can't accept that we're weaker here. Adv. 2012

Inside Backers:

2011: Mcintosh, Alexander, Fletcher, Fox, Riley, Sundberg

2012: Alexander, Fletcher, Robinson, and Riley

HERE is where I think out real issue lies. I think Riley is an upgrade over Rocky. But Riley wasn't an addition, he was depth. So moving Riley up cost us depth at the position. I don't know if Robinson is a better ILB than Fox and Sundberg, but I know he isn't better depth than Riley was when Rocky was the starter. In addition, I think it's painfully obvious that Fletcher is not the same player. I could be convinced into calling this one a push, but I personally call this one adv 2012.

Outside Backers:

2011: Jackson, Kerrigan, Orakpo, White, Wilson (was he on the team?)

2012: Jackson, Kerrigan, Orakpo, Wilson (Who am I missing? Robinson? I have him at ILD)

Here is where we're hurt. No way to get around that Orakpo injury. We're really worse off here. Adv. 2011

Ends:

2011: Bowen, Carriker, Golston, Scott, Jenkins

2012: Bowen, Carriker, Golston, Baker, Jenkins

Essentially the same group of guys. We lost Jenkins last year. We lost Carriker this year. Scott vs Baker? This one is probably a push. However, I'd say advantage 2011 for a couple reasons. I think a healthy Carriker is better than a healthy Jenkins. I think that Bowen was significantly better last year.

Tackles:

2011: Cofield, Neild

2012: Cofield, Neild

Same group of guys. Probably a push, though I think Cofield also played much better last year than he has thus far.

So what are we looking at? We're seeing the following:

~ We lost serious talent at safety, though that talent hardly played anyway. It appears that we've traded scrub safeties for scrub safeties. Perhaps slightly scrubbier.

~ We have an essentially identical group of corners. The notable difference is a net loss at the nickel position, though I feel it is countered by a net gain at the depth behind it

~ We have a substantial loss in the ILB position. The starter technically upgraded (Riley from Rocky) but this was at the expense of depth (who has filled in for Riley's old backup spot?) In addition, we face an aging Fletcher who is experiencing arguable degrees of drop in play.

~ We have a horrible, horrible loss at OLB that I think cannot be understated enough

~ We have probably a similar situation at the end position. Argument could be made that it's a drop off because of an injury to a better player and less performance from Bowen.

~ We have an identical group at the DT spot. The identically of the production however, is debatable.

So tell me, skins fans. Where have we upgraded? Where have we downgraded? Where did we stay the same, but experience a regression (or ascension) of quality of play?

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

We had a piss poor secondary in 2011. We have a piss poor secondary in 2012.

No change there.

Hail.

[khaozerker]

I think bad safety play and lack of pressure is making our CBs look worse than they are.

[Bigmuss1]

It's the safety's, quit trying to analyze this. Gibbs Hog Heaven is right, piss poor last year, piss poor this year. And IMHO, we are worse back there this year because of Williams. I actually have been one of the most vocal Reed Doughty "haters" around here, his play hasn't killed us, like the mistakes of his counterpart. The coaching staff and media need to call it like it is, Madieu Williams either has to start playing 1000 times better or he gotta go. Who cares who's behind him, can they be that much worse??

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I think that's as damning as anything Big. The fact Doughty is the best we have out there.

If that's not an indictment on the serious lack of talent in that group I don't know what is.

Hail.

[skins4eva]

The question now is, what if anything can we do to try to improve the current situation? Sign players off the street? Work on pressure schemes up the middle? Revert back to a 4-3 on some downs and distances?

[Vilandil Tasardur]

Last year we gave up 3553 passing yards (12th). We gave up 5437 total yards (13th NFL). We gave up 367 points (21st NFL).

This year we have given up 2299 passing (32nd, on pace for 5254). We have given up 2896 total (30th, on pace for 6786). We have given up 200 points (30th, on pace for 544).

You're telling me that we dropped from 12th, 13th, and 21st to 32nd, 30th, and 30th because of what stayed the same? I agree Williams is trash. Absolute, terrible trash. Like, double bag and whip out an air freshener trash. But is that that much worse than whoever was playing for the injured Landry and Otogwe?

[Bigmuss1]

The question now is, what if anything can we do to try to improve the current situation? Sign players off the street? Work on pressure schemes up the middle? Revert back to a 4-3 on some downs and distances?

This is a great question!! What can we do now? We have an offense to compete today, how can they help out the D situation? Does anyone have any idea/inside info?

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

This is a great question!! What can we do now? We have an offense to compete today, how can they help out the D situation? Does anyone have any idea/inside info?

Pray. Like often.

Hail.

[Mahons21]

I'm confused. Our CBs are the same except for nb, and you say Buchanan was better . Yet you give the advantage to 2012, or I'm reading something wrong.

[Vilandil Tasardur]

I'm confused. Our CBs are the same except for nb, and you say Buchanan was better . Yet you give the advantage to 2012, or I'm reading something wrong.

Sorry! Looks like I got lazy on that part. I think Buchannon was better at the NB, but I think that the overall depth is better everywhere else. I think that Griffin is not a suitable #3, but like the overall roster upgrade because of the other guys on the squad now (namely, not Barnes).

[Bigmuss1]

I really do think it's that simple, the change in our safety play has impacted our 2011 numbers to what they are today. "Sprinkle" in an Orakpo injury, and boom you have our current situation.

[Riggo-toni]

I think the analysis is incomplete without looking at trends from last year. It seemed to me our D kept getting worse as the year wore on. Maybe I'm not objective in that regard, because I've suspected from the day of his hiring that Haslett would follow the same pattern here as elsewhere - start well with blitz pkgs, eventually get exposed, and finally implode.

In fairness, the makeshift front 7 is getting no pressure. Jenkins is turning out to be a disappointment. Rob Jackson doesn't appear to be able to shed blockers....just not enough strength.

[USS Redskins]

Only the Redskins could use two top ten #1 picks on safeties over 8 years and have neither starting in 2012.

The Skins D as a whole is not real good - without Orakpo, they are much worse than that.

Jenkins, Cofield and Bowen are ok against the run but they apply zero pressure in the pass game. Kerrigan might as well stay home, Fletch has lost several steps and Jackson was on fire for one or two plays, but is hardly a backup in this league.

There are not just a few holes in this D - its the coaching and bad talent.

[SkinsFTW]

This is a great question!! What can we do now? We have an offense to compete today, how can they help out the D situation? Does anyone have any idea/inside info?

Start scoring the final TD with time running out?

I was watching everybody in the bar i was at cheering us going up 23-20 the whole time thinking the Giants have plenty of time for a 7-8 play drive and with Eli they'd probably do it. They actually did it so fast we'd have had a shot if Moss didn't fumble.

[GaryGreenMonk]

I think there's only one thing you can really say...

Lou Spanos and Steve Jackson were apparently much much much better than MS and Haslett were giving them credit for.

I suspect Spanos was our biggest loss of the 2.

I think you got 2 guys in Haslett and Morris that haven't worked together and neither of them know the 3-4 well.

We lost our true 3-4 LB coach in Spanos. And Steve Jackson had been our safeties coach since 2004 and was under Greg Williams.

I think what we have now.. is 2 guys... neither one with a real good vision for running the 3-4, with possible competing goals in Morris and Haslett... and on top of it.. even more piss poor talent at S than we had last year.

Result = worst pass defense in the league.

[skins4eva]

Result = worst pass defense in the league.

We are on pace for the worst pass defense in the history of the league. If that doesn't spark change, nothing will. Tough to know what we can do to improve in season. The super late bye week probably doesn't help either.

[Vilandil Tasardur]

I think there's only one thing you can really say...

Lou Spanos and Steve Jackson were apparently much much much better than MS and Haslett were giving them credit for.

I suspect Spanos was our biggest loss of the 2.

I think you got 2 guys in Haslett and Morris that haven't worked together and neither of them know the 3-4 well.

We lost our true 3-4 LB coach in Spanos. And Steve Jackson had been our safeties coach since 2004 and was under Greg Williams.

I think what we have now.. is 2 guys... neither one with a real good vision for running the 3-4, with possible competing goals in Morris and Haslett... and on top of it.. even more piss poor talent at S than we had last year.

Result = worst pass defense in the league.

Now there's the depth I was grasping for, and failing to find. The secondary feels like a lot of new bodies, but it really isn't all that different. The linebacking core remains nearly identical. But you're quite right. I had overlooked the departure of two long tenured coaches.

[steve09ru]

The big issue is Williams - every big play that occurs, he's the safety over the top. We're in the middle of the pack for yard/attempt defensively and also for completion pct. - I don't even mind the ton of yards we give up because teams are throwing on us at a ridiculous rate. Our run defense has done pretty well and teams know they have to score so they are passing a lot. I think it's showing this year more than previously years because of this. Teams can't just score 2 td's and then play ball control. They have to score to beat us and they are doing that by the big pass play. When the games come down to 1 possession - Williams can't afford to give up 1 big play. If we can shut down the deep ball then we can win any game. I'd like to see us go back to playing our safeties 30 yards off the ball like we did when ST and LL were here.

[Dah-Dee]

We're in the middle of the pack for yard/attempt defensively and also for completion pct. - I don't even mind the ton of yards we give up because teams are throwing on us at a ridiculous rate. Our run defense has done pretty well and teams know they have to score so they are passing a lot.

Welllll.... It's true we are 20th in defensive completion %, so that is middle-of-the-pack-ish; but we are 27th in Y/PA and 28th in Y/P. We're also 32nd, dead last, in 1st downs given up via the pass.

With the 9th fewest rushing attempts against, looks to me like teams are not bothering to run (more) screens/other short passing plays for RBs/TEs, or even to run much at all, because they know we can't stop the pass in the heart of our defense. This makes it even more ridiculous that Haslett has apparently not adapted his scheme to invite/force the run, protect his weak link(s) in the secondary.

Edit: If the defense continues playing this way (*shudder*), their 2012 stats will look frighteningly similar to 2010 (especially in the passing defense categories), which might beg the question: was 2011 an aberration, and 2012 the reversion to the Haslett norm?

[SkinsCrushCowboys]

We sucked then and suck worse now....some different people, but same result...poor

Boot the 3-4. It has not worked for us. Great scheme if you have the players, we don't

[GaryGreenMonk]

BTW.. Sundberg is the LS (long snapper).. not a Line Backer

[Riggo'sRangers]

Only the Redskins could use two top ten #1 picks on safeties over 8 years and have neither starting in 2012.

Sean was not a football decision but entirely out of our hands...and that will always be a sadness that remains. HTTR

[skins island connection]

We sucked then and suck worse now....some different people, but same result...poor

Boot the 3-4. It has not worked for us. Great scheme if you have the players, we don't

I wasn't too thrilled with the introduction of the 3-4, but I believe thats what Mike wanted. Before the switch, we were not bad with the 4-3 defense, except for 2007 I think.

This is one of those cases of a very futile coach in Haslett somehow getting the nod over someone else; at times it makes me miss Gregg Williams; at least he got in players' faces and demanded better performance, not a marshmellow daydreaming on the sidelines.

In the unlikely event that Haslett happens to read my post, I would just like to say " YOU SUCK MONKEYNUTS'.

{ my apologies to anyone, including monkeys, that I may have offended }

[bradboyd80]

Here is a few additional stats that I found interesting, and perhaps help put it all into perspective:

# Pass attempts faced per game:

2011 season - avg of 32

2012 - 41.5 avg so far thru 7 games

BIG difference in my opinion. It means there is more of a chance for the opposing team to hit on a big play.

Avg yds per pass attempt:

2011 season - 7.5

2012 - 8.0

Not a huge difference, but significant enough.

Now for the killer.....

# of 40+ yd pass plays:

2011 season - 9

2012 - 7........thru 7 games

That tells me our safeties aren't doing their job in keeping defenders in front of them. No team gave up more than 14 last year and we're on pace for 16 (though the Bucs are tied with us, so that makes me feel a little better).

It's going to be an ugly year for the secondary. Our potent offense combined with good run D (7th overall) and vulnerable secondary, is making teams throw more. Our secondary simply isn't good enough to do anything about it. While they are doing a good job in some areas (10 ints which is tied for 3rd), they let the opposing team stay in it.

I'm sure the injuries aren't helping either. Without Rak and Carriker, we're getting hardly any pressure on the QB. Which is giving them more time to pick us apart.