For Midget Fans: Why John Mara cheated

[Commander PK]

I understand the rationale for some in trying to find some kind of fault with the Redskins in this situation. I get it. In order for you to move on from this, you have to try to find fault on both sides so you can feel better about this whole thing.

The reality is far different though.

The reality, is the NFL is literally screwing over one of it's oldest and most successful franchises with no legal or ethical basis to do so. It really is that simple, and I see why that is hard for some people to accept. The Washington Redskins, the team that you love so much, that your life revolves around on Sundays in the Fall and during the off-season has been deliberately and vindictively handicapped in an attempt to stop it's rise back up from the bottom dwelling teams of the NFL. There really is no other way of looking at it. When you take that much money from a team, you are literally trying to cause them to fail.

For me, the people who should be most angry about this are the season ticket holders. You will be paying top dollar to watch a team this fall that the NFL has deliberately tried to prevent from winning their games. Although, the NFL will have no problem distributing the money you pay to watch the Redskins to other lesser market teams who's very existence is owed to the Redskins and a couple of others.

Think about that

[Rufus T Firefly]

It's just you and a doctor isolated in a mountainside cabin. You hold a gun and say "I'm gonna shoot myself in the foot'. Apart from the multiple other reasons why you shouldn't shoot yourself in the foot, the doctor tells you "If you shoot yourself in the foot, I'm not patching it up". You say "You have to. It's the Hippocratic oath and the law that you have to treat me". Dr. says "well, I won't."

 

You shoot yourself in the foot. The Doctor lets you bleed to death.

 

Was the doctor completely in the wrong for letting you die? You bet. But you're still a moron, and it's largely your fault you died.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

It's just you and a doctor isolated in a mountainside cabin. You hold a gun and say "I'm gonna shoot myself in the foot'. Apart from the multiple other reasons why you shouldn't shoot yourself in the foot, the doctor tells you "If you shoot yourself in the foot, I'm not patching it up". You say "You have to. It's the Hippocratic oath and the law that you have to treat me". Dr. says "well, I won't."

 

You shoot yourself in the foot. The Doctor lets you bleed to death.

 

Was the doctor completely in the wrong for letting you die? You bet. But you're still a moron, and it's largely your fault you died.

 

But   as the brilliant analogy will be TOTALLY lost on many. 

 

Hail. 

[Rufus T Firefly]

But   as the brilliant analogy will be TOTALLY lost on many. 

 

Hail. 

I'm waiting for "what does the mountain represent?"

[SJValleySkinz]

It's just you and a doctor isolated in a mountainside cabin. You hold a gun and say "I'm gonna shoot myself in the foot'. Apart from the multiple other reasons why you shouldn't shoot yourself in the foot, the doctor tells you "If you shoot yourself in the foot, I'm not patching it up". You say "You have to. It's the Hippocratic oath and the law that you have to treat me". Dr. says "well, I won't."

 

You shoot yourself in the foot. The Doctor lets you bleed to death.

 

Was the doctor completely in the wrong for letting you die? You bet. But you're still a moron, and it's largely your fault you died.

 

Where does the league approving them contracts fall into that analogy? Does the doctor say he won't treat you but then pull out a medical kit?

[Rufus T Firefly]

Where does the league approving them contracts fall into that analogy? Does the doctor say he won't treat you but then pull out a medical kit?

The Hippocratic oath and laws requiring doctors to treat the injured represent the league approving the contracts. Shanahan knew the league technically shouldn't punish the Redskins, but he also knew the league was telling him they would. He chose to shoot himself in the foot anyway.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Where does the league approving them contracts fall into that analogy? Does the doctor say he won't treat you but then pull out a medical kit?

 

I don't wish for this to sound condescending as it may well, so apologies in advance as that's the last thing I'd do; but the Internet is both a marvelous resource and your friend. And it contains MANY examples to answer  your question on this. 

 

Hail. 

[Redskins Diehard]

hilarious

[Commander PK]

that's funny.

 

My question is, who is the NFL to think they can get away with breaking Federal Trade Law?  Even though they have successfully done so.

 

They could "warn" him all they wanted...they had no justifiable grounds to punish him, and they used what amounted to a "loophole" in having the players union sign off on a penalty that effectively admitted they were colluding behind the players collective backs.    

 

They, the Redskins essentially dared them to "punish" them for doing what they did, because in any other world businesses suffer consequences when they break the law.  Apparently, the NFL is exempt.  

[Rufus T Firefly]

that's funny.

 

My question is, who is the NFL to think they can get away with breaking Federal Trade Law?  Even though they have successfully done so.

 

They could "warn" him all they wanted...they had no justifiable grounds to punish him, and they used what amounted to a "loophole" in having the players union sign off on a penalty that effectively admitted they were colluding behind the players collective backs.    

 

They, the Redskins essentially dared them to "punish" them for doing what they did, because in any other world businesses suffer consequences when they break the law.  Apparently, the NFL is exempt.  

So, the guy who shoots himself in the foot is wise, and you're going to trust him with a gun and stand barefoot in front of him?

 

Glad we're clear on that.

[Commander PK]

So, the guy who shoots himself in the foot is wise, and you're going to trust him with a gun and stand barefoot in front of him?

 

Glad we're clear on that.

 

it's a funny analogy...but I don't think we are really talking about the same thing here.  I'm saying the NFL's warnings should have been worth absolutely NOTHING.  Each NFL organization has been established as a separate and individual identity.  The salary cap only exists through an agreement with the player's union.  2010 was agreed upon by both parties to be an uncapped year.  Yet, most of the owner's clearly had an unwritten gentleman's backdoor "Cap" agreement in place.  Something that is illegal.  You cannot conspire to keep salaries down.  The same rules apply to every other business.  The only reason they got away with it, is because the player's union basically agreed to "forgive" the collusion while signing off on the new contract which included the penalties.    

 

that's not the same as shooting yourself in the foot after the Doctor tells you he won't help.  Shooting yourself in the foot is dumb, period.  That's not what Mike Shanahan and the Redskins did.  They did what they had every legal right to do, and there should have been no consequences, but like I've said before.  Big money does what it wants to.  They say the Redskins used a "loophole" to gain an unfair competitive advantage.  I say the NFL used a "loophole" to punish them by getting Demaurice Smith to sign off on a collective bargaining agreement, which included the penalties.  Basically making it impossible to do anything about it.  

[Rufus T Firefly]

it's a funny analogy...but I don't think we are really talking about the same thing here.  I'm saying the NFL's warnings should have been worth absolutely NOTHING.  Each NFL organization has been established as a separate and individual identity.  The salary cap only exists through an agreement with the player's union.  2010 was agreed upon by both parties to be an uncapped year.  Yet, most of the owner's clearly had an unwritten gentleman's backdoor "Cap" agreement in place.  Something that is illegal.  You cannot conspire to keep salaries down.  The same rules apply to every other business.  The only reason they got away with it, is because the player's union basically agreed to "forgive" the collusion while signing off on the new contract which included the penalties.    

 

that's not the same as shooting yourself in the foot after the Doctor tells you he won't help.  Shooting yourself in the foot is dumb, period.  That's not what Mike Shanahan and the Redskins did.  They did what they had every legal right to do, and there should have been no consequences, but like I've said before.  Big money does what it wants to.  They say the Redskins used a "loophole" to gain an unfair competitive advantage.  I say the NFL used a "loophole" to punish them by getting Demaurice Smith to sign off on a collective bargaining agreement, which included the penalties.  Basically making it impossible to do anything about it.  

No, the analogy is just fine actually. Shooting yourself in the foot= not using the uncapped year to get rid of aging deadweight like Albert Haynseworth, and in fact trading players like that for draft picks.

 

You keep talking about the league. Yes, they were wrong. I've probably said that 100 times. Want me to say it again? Fine, the league was wrong. There, now let's talk about the guy running our team.

 

Without an uncapped year, he still should have come in and dumped players and started rebuilding. In an uncapped year, it couldn't have been more obvious that that's what he should do. That's before any risk of a cap penalty. Throw in that risk and it becomes more clear. You can harp on the league not having the right to punish us, etc. But guess what? They told Shanahan they would, and they did. he knew it was the risk it was, and he chose the path that allowed it to happen.

 

I've talked about the NFL's screw job enough. Now I'm talking about Mike Shanahan. He was a complete moron in the 2010 offseason and if he was less of one the penalty wouldn't have happened. So yes, he's also responsible.

[Redskins Diehard]

The entire premise requires an assumption that dealing with the already signed contracts in one way that didn't break any rules would be punished while dealing with it in another way that didn't break any rules would.

The entire McNabb fiasco cost or rebuild a couple of rounds in one draft. It didn't cost us a chance at developing a quarterback of the future in 2010 or 2011. we stick with old 17 for an extra 2 years and we end up a couple rounds higher for one pick in one draft. Was it a good move? No. But hardly the most significant of the last 4 or 10 years.

[Burgold]

Let's say instead you are in the gas business. You have been stuck with a refinery that was built in the 1970's and is both slow and inefficient. Every year, it causes you to waste thousands of barrels of gas.

Eventually, you find a site to build a new refiner. Get the permits for land use, get your refinery plans approved, and do everything by the book. However, your buddies in the gas business are pissed that you are going to become more profitable and likely steal some of their business. What's worse is they've just seen you wrangle one of the great young prospects in the field. So, they lobby Congress to pass a brand new law that will charge a levy only on businesses that build new refineries in your state. New refineries out of your state won't incur any penalties, upgrades to refineries won't generate penalties, but yours will.

Then, the refiners go on tv and proclaim that you did everything right, went by the book, but you found a way to change the book to drive them out of business and they should feel grateful worse wasn't done to them.

[Rufus T Firefly]

The entire premise requires an assumption that dealing with the already signed contracts in one way that didn't break any rules would be punished while dealing with it in another way that didn't break any rules would.

It's pretty simple- one way was a path Shanahan was warned he'd be punished if he went down. The other way no one was warned to avoid, everyone followed.

 

There's no assumption needed.

[Burgold]

I don't like the mentality of blaming the victim. I don't blame a woman for getting raped because she wore a mini skirt. I don't blame the child who got bullied because he keeps going to school. I don't call airline passengers out because they board a plane that gets hijacked.

The redskins did nothing wrong and were mugged, robbed, and spat upon. Don't give the law breaker a pass.

[Rufus T Firefly]

I don't like the mentality of blaming the victim. I don't blame a woman for getting raped because she wore a mini skirt. I don't blame the child who got bullied because he keeps going to school. I don't call airline passengers out because they board a plane that gets hijacked.

The redskins did nothing wrong and were mugged, robbed, and spat upon. Don't give the law breaker a pass.

EVERYONE has acknowledged that what Mara and the league did was wrong. Look uo at my posts on this page and you can see I've done it repeatedly.

 

But some of us are also willing to point out that the incompetence and arrogance of the man running our team allolwed the penalty to happen. When we're discussing whether to entrust the leadership of the team we all love to him for another year,  I think that is more relevant at the moment.

[Burgold]

So, if Jimmy didn't go to the kickball field during recess he wouldn't have gotten beaten up. He knew Mili was waiting for him and Jimmy had it coming because he was arrogant enough to go outside during recess.

Paint it however you like. Your blaming the victim. Redskins are completely 100 percent guilt free. Hell, even the bully said so.

[Rufus T Firefly]

So, if Jimmy didn't go to the kickball field during recess he wouldn't have gotten beaten up. He knew Mili was waiting for him and Jimmy had it coming because he was arrogant enough to go outside during recess.

Paint it however you like. Your blaming the victim. Redskins are completely 100 percent guilt free. Hell, even the bully said so.

No, I'm concerned with whether the guy running my team is making stupid decisions.

 

As for using that to compare me to people who side with rapists and bullies, I trust I don't need to draw you a map to where you can shove it.

[Burgold]

Well, then what did the Redskins do wrong? What rule did they break? How did they misbehave and deserve this penalty.

In this thread especially, I think we should look only at the cap penalty our role in it and whether or not we were screwed.

Plenty of other places in which to argue if shan't and Allen were good stewards of the cap or made the right personnel moves.

Here the subject is who was right and who was wronged. I don't think there is any gray on this one. The redskins were wronged.

F Mara.

[Commander PK]

 

Without an uncapped year, he still should have come in and dumped players and started rebuilding. In an uncapped year, it couldn't have been more obvious that that's what he should do.

 

Yes, because every new regime immediately upon arrival starts jettisoning players on the team before they even know what they have.  Shanahan should have been a virtual encyclopedia on the 2010 Washington Redskins upon arrival.  He should have known exactly who should go, who should stay, and what positions to draft.   

 

I still fail to see what relevance McNabb has now in 2013.  Shanahan tried to get a guy who would help us win a few games while he figured out what he had.  It didn't work.  That was four years ago, and since that time, we won an NFC East Championship. 

 

The Redskins are just having a bad year for a myriad of reasons.  Now is not the time to falter, otherwise we will be right back at square one.  You might think we are already there.  I don't.

[HapHaszard]

Everyone knows Mara was in cap trouble and wanted to make sure the Redskins and Cowboys didn't get to far ahead of him.  He used his position in the NFL to make sure that that didn't happen.  You can see how bad his team is right now to understand how bad a position he was in.

 

I only hope that we play up to our potential against the Giants and beat them. Karma.

 

Hail

[Main-Maine]

Everyone knows Mara was in cap trouble and wanted to make sure the Redskins and Cowboys didn't get to far ahead of him.  He used his position in the NFL to make sure that that didn't happen.  You can see how bad his team is right now to understand how bad a position he was in.

 

I only hope that we play up to our potential against the Giants and beat them. Karma.

 

Hail

 

I agree 100% with this quote. When you look at the Giants Mara knew they were about to go into cap hell, because a lot of  contracts were coming up(Hakeem Knicks, Cruz) . The giants as a whole knew the Redskins were about to get significantly better. Imagine if we got Vincent Jackson, Aquib Talib, and a few other FA. Mara ****ed us badly because we can barely afford enough to pay the scrubs we have on the field(mainly defense).

Anyone who think Snyder, and shanny's was wrong for dumping money in a uncapped year forget we weren't the only teams. 

[Asianskins]

I'm waiting for "what does the mountain represent?"

no cap year? or salary cap?

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I don't like the mentality of blaming the victim. I don't blame a woman for getting raped because she wore a mini skirt. I don't blame the child who got bullied because he keeps going to school. I don't call airline passengers out because they board a plane that gets hijacked.

The redskins did nothing wrong and were mugged, robbed, and spat upon. Don't give the law breaker a pass.

 

I don't often defend other posters. Certainly not the one the above post is directed at. He can MORE than take care of himself. 

 

But turning cold hard facts on Shanahans self inflicted part in this mess around to a comparison with siding with bully's, rapists and terrorists because he pointed out those facts is beyond low Bur. Come on man. That was TOTALLY out of order and uncalled for. 

 

Your FAR better than that. Or at least always used to be. 

 

Hail.