PFT: ‘Skins, Griffin still haggling over offset language

[cphil006]

Just sign it... you shouldn't be paid for not playing anyway... We have to stay under the cap. If there was no cap, Snyder would double everyone's salary... You want help? Then let the Redskins have the cap space to sign you better teammates.

[Taylor 36]

You are presenting a warped view of this situation. You are misrepresenting this. You apparently believe RG3 should be treated with caution because Albert Haynsworth burned the Vinnie Cerrato organization. You are under the misconception that the rookie wage scale is not in place. Rookies are not allowed to sign 5 year deals for $60 million dollars. Lets get down to reality and I will illustrate how rediculous it is that the contract has not already been signed. There is no covering one's *****. There are no "MISERABLE" contract situations available with 4 year rookie contracts. Read and understand:

What is really warped about his view is that he thinks the organization needs to cover its ass with contingencies for RG3's contract, a guy who has a gone above and beyond being a model citizen on and off the field, yet he has no problem with the organization putting its bare ass on the line when it comes to his poster boy, Fred Davis. Reading his post in this thread and comparing them to posts that he's had in other threads about Davis is really frightening with the contradictions. But, once you make a strong point that counters his point, he will just ignore you. He must have been one of those kids who always took his ball and went home when he didn't win or get his way. Pretty sad.

[tibbidoe]

With the way players have money thrown at them like it's Monopoly money, and the fact that we're getting a starting QB for 4 years at a small (by NFL standards) salary, $22M guaranteed is nothing. The ONLY concern I'd have is a career ending injury within the first 3 years. Short of that, he'll be here no matter how he plays.

If we're talking about this in 2014-2015 the same way, I'll care. But it'll be a $100M contract, not a rookie contract.

I get that part of the issue is in relation to future rookie contracts. That's fine. It still matters now more than it will then. Guarantee the whole thing, get RGIII in by tomorrow and let the guy do his thing. Hopefully, 3-4 years from now we'll be looking back at today and laughing, when his first "big boy" contract comes up due.

[MWAI]

Just sign it... you shouldn't be paid for not playing anyway... We have to stay under the cap. If there was no cap, Snyder would double everyone's salary... You want help? Then let the Redskins have the cap space to sign you better teammates.

cphil006...who is going to be paid for not playing? This guy is the Redskins quarterback for the next 4 years. Period with a capital P. Rich Tandler agrees with me. Here is the link.

http://www.csnwashington.com/football-washington-redskins/redskins-talk/Report-Offset-language-remains-holdup-in?blockID=740564&feedID=6355

[Taylor 36]

With the way players have money thrown at them like it's Monopoly money, and the fact that we're getting a starting QB for 4 years at a small (by NFL standards) salary, $22M guaranteed is nothing. The ONLY concern I'd have is a career ending injury within the first 3 years. Short of that, he'll be here no matter how he plays.

If we're talking about this in 2014-2015 the same way, I'll care. But it'll be a $100M contract, not a rookie contract.

I get that part of the issue is in relation to future rookie contracts. That's fine. It still matters now more than it will then. Guarantee the whole thing, get RGIII in by tomorrow and let the guy do his thing. Hopefully, 3-4 years from now we'll be looking back at today and laughing, when his first "big boy" contract comes up due.

I think this is the key: injuries. RG3 seems to, by all accounts, have every piece, all the intangibles, that a franchise would want to have in a starting QB. He may struggle as he gets more accustomed to the Pro level and the NFL game, but he will not be cut or released for any other reason than injury for the life of his rookie contract. However, if he were to get injured, that is where things could get scary, and not just for on the field production. We would have to have someone to replace him with, which hopefully we took care of in this draft as well with Cousins. If not, we are going to have to pony up some money for a replacement while having to worry about a contract for a player who can no longer play. If they could just work injury clauses into the contract, and keep it all guaranteed otherwise, I think that would be the most beneficial route for both parties. Though, I'm not sure how the new CBA handles such clauses, or if they are even addressed.

[Missouri_Skins_Fan]

Well Bruce, if you guys have off setting language, you're haggling over?

Make sure you add "Cannot work out or do any off season training in the State of Florida. Specially the City of Miami. Matter of fact...can't even go on vacation there."

If I were GM, that's what me & RG3 would be haggling over, in his contract.

Elvis Dumervil just got arrested on "assault with a gun" in Miami, Florida.

Seriously, RG3.

Please stay the hell away from there.

I would rather RG3 wear American socks, while throwing the football with Syrian/Egyptian protesters on a desert filled with land mines.

Then book 1 ticket for RG3 to Miami, Florida.

Seriously...I'm almost not kidding.

[MWAI]

Now THAT was funny stuff Missouri Skins Fan But who knows..maybe that's what the holdup is in the contract. lol

[sempre_victrix]

I couldn't agree more. The player and agent want to benefit especially now with limited resources due to the rookie wage scale. My point is that this is such a small amount of money for a team and such a short term contract (4 years), and year number 4 is VOIDABLE anyway, that the Redskins are just wasting their time with haggling. If this were the old days and a 6 year contract and 50 million dollars were up for grabs, SURE, I could see it. But as I said, if he is not in camp then I will label this whole process "rediculous", because in the end, whether it is Monday or in 2 weeks, RG3 is going to get signed and the Redskins and fans are the only ones who lose because time is more valuable than money when it comes to a rookie QB's season. Especially when a team mortages their future with 3 number one draft picks for only ONE guy.

You make an assumption based on what you want to see happen, but who knows, he could, God forbid, be a bust.

It works both ways. If he is going to be our QB for the next 4 years, why is HE (RG3) worried about the offset language? If he gets cut, he gets paid his full contract by the Skins. If he signs elsewhere, the Skins are off the hook for some of his salary. To even ask for more is sheer greed. But since we gave so much to get him, he knows he has us by the short hairs.

[Darth Tater]

Well Bruce, if you guys have off setting language, you're haggling over?

Make sure you add "Cannot work out or do any off season training in the State of Florida. Specially the City of Miami. Matter of fact...can't even go on vacation there."

If I were GM, that's what me & RG3 would be haggling over, in his contract.

Elvis Dumervil just got arrested on "assault with a gun" in Miami, Florida.

Seriously, RG3.

Please stay the hell away from there.

I would rather RG3 wear American socks, while throwing the football with Syrian/Egyptian protesters on a desert filled with land mines.

Then book 1 ticket for RG3 to Miami, Florida.

Seriously...I'm almost not kidding.

How much would you pay for such language?

[Missouri_Skins_Fan]

How much would you pay for such language?

For that language, in the contract?

Easily a Million Dollar bonus added.

1 Mil for not having anything to do with the State of Florida. (Unless we play in Miami/Jacksonville)

Bargain, imo.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

Of course, they could just be trying to define the words "total badass" for incentive purposes.

[jnhay]

Just sign it... you shouldn't be paid for not playing anyway... We have to stay under the cap. If there was no cap, Snyder would double everyone's salary... You want help? Then let the Redskins have the cap space to sign you better teammates.

You'd be a terrible agent. It's not really "getting paid for not playing", it's just putting slightly (extremely slight in Griffin's case) more value in the contract. If you put that money in the first year of his contract, would it be "getting paid for not playing" or just getting paid more?

[bedlamVR]

The front office has an incentive to protect itself. RG3 shouldn't bust, but you don't want to have to pay him IF---and it's a big IF--he does. The claims of "JUST GIVE HIM WHAT HE WANTS!" landed us in some pretty miserable contract situations before. We have to cover our ass.

RG3 isn't going to have some Brady Quinn-esque hold out, and it''s not like out front office is doing what the Colts tried with Andrew Luck when it comes to trying to more or less control his entire marketing image. At the most, he might---might---miss a couple days with the rookies. But Kerrigan and Trent's deals both pretty much came right before training camp (if I recall Trent's deal was finalized the first day camp opened), so this isn't shocking.

No need to panic, people.

]

I think there is reason to worry . This offset language has been known about for months and months and months and yet we are still no closer to a solution .

I hope the deal will be done in the next few hours or tomorrow, but once the agent/player has crossed that deadline then it is oh so much easier to stay out of camp and hold out once they have become a hold out and a day delay can easily become a week or month ...

There is no comparison with Trent because he was not subject to the rookie slotting ... Kerigan was signed just before camp because there wasn't much season before camp... the other teams in the same situation are all waiting to see who will blink first .. but they did not invest 4 premium picks into a QB over the next three years ....

The deal is for 4 years - we are still going to be paying in terms of draft picks for 3 of the 4 years so why is the team squabbling about offset language ?

What is interesting is there is no twitter chat about this and also nothing about Josh Leiberius either .....Giants and Eagles btw have all their picks signed and ready for camp .. weak sauce ..

[Darth Tater]

For that language, in the contract?

Easily a Million Dollar bonus added.

1 Mil for not having anything to do with the State of Florida. (Unless we play in Miami/Jacksonville)

Bargain, imo.

Don't really think we need an anti-Florida clause in RG3's contract, I think a warning about how Florida is a dangerous place for pro athletes would likely to the trick

[KCClybun]

I am not paranoid but YOU are. You have wrapped yourself up in some delusion that RG3 will get cut in the first 2 years. You must have skipped football 101 because that never happens with 1st round QB's....not even with the nutty Ryan Leaf. You have got to be one paranoid guy to think that RG3 is going to sign a contract and then get cut by the Redskins within 2 years.

And you further display your lack of knowledge by stating that 8 other organizations have the same problem....WRONG. 8 other organizations did not trade 3 number 1 draft picks and a #2 pick for a guy, and then have them sitting at home during rookie training camp. In fact, Luck doesn't report until NEXT week so the Colts also do not represent the same situation.

Please get your facts straight before you post because it is getting tiring correcting you.

I was on the RG3 bangwagon back when most of the people here wanted to Suck for Luck and were hoping Matt Barkley declared. I know that the chances of RG3 getting cut are virtually nil. I know how good he is. I am not deluded. I am not paranoid. I know the chances are very, very small that he gets cut before his four year deal.

Just because I say I understand why the front office has a stake in trying to put offset language in his contract does not mean that I do not know the chances of the language being pretty much pointless are higher than the odds Griffin gets cut. But these are negotiations, and the organization has a responsibility to itself, on the one and a million shot that Griffin DOES get cut (and I am not saying he will, nor do I believe he will be), to protect itself in the extremely unlikely event that it does happen. Nor do I begrudge Griffin from wanting his contract fully guaranteed. But this is why we have contract negotiations, I.E you give a little, I give a little, and hopefulyl we meet somewhere close to the middle.

It's why being so goddamn paranoid about this is stupid. Griffin will sign his deal ahead of camp, if not a day or two late. And I know that may set him back several decades in his development, but simply saying "give him whatever he wants, there is no chance of him getting cut" isn't good enough.

What is really warped about his view is that he thinks the organization needs to cover its ass with contingencies for RG3's contract, a guy who has a gone above and beyond being a model citizen on and off the field, yet he has no problem with the organization putting its bare ass on the line when it comes to his poster boy, Fred Davis. Reading his post in this thread and comparing them to posts that he's had in other threads about Davis is really frightening with the contradictions. But, once you make a strong point that counters his point, he will just ignore you. He must have been one of those kids who always took his ball and went home when he didn't win or get his way. Pretty sad.

How about you bite me?

Where did this even come from? When did I ever say that this organization needs to lay itself on the line for Davis? Quote me. Seriously, go back and quote me, and any "well I don't have time to go back in your thread and find specific quotes" horse**** won't be good enough. I want to know where in the bluest of blue hells I ever said that Davis should be allowed to get away with anything.

In fact, I would be nothing short of amazed, confused and annoyed if Davis' next contract (provided he gets one because he's on the franchise tag) DOESN'T have offset language of some sort, to protect the organization in the event that he gets cut/suspended/whatever.

Don't put ****ing words in my mouth. I have no problem debating **** with people who don't agree with what I say, but I'm not about to be accused of something I didn't ****ing say just because YOU don't like it. Tough ****, it's the internet, get a helmet and get over it.

[MWAI]

You make an assumption based on what you want to see happen, but who knows, he could, God forbid, be a bust.

It works both ways. If he is going to be our QB for the next 4 years, why is HE (RG3) worried about the offset language? If he gets cut, he gets paid his full contract by the Skins. If he signs elsewhere, the Skins are off the hook for some of his salary. To even ask for more is sheer greed. But since we gave so much to get him, he knows he has us by the short hairs.

I am not making an assumption. You are making an assumption with that statement. All I am saying is a 4 year contract for 21 million dollars is not an Albert Haynesworth deal where you have to pay somebody 23 million for leaving the city. There really are no cap hits on this deal after 3 years. Its a short contract and you are worried over nothing. And besides, who cares about the money. its not mine. Its not yours. Its Dan Snyders and God knows..he has wasted enough of it on losers like Haynesworth already so now that we have a class guy and our QB, get him into camp and let him play. Even sit him on the bench like Aaron Rogers for 3 years if you want...but I just want this class act as part of the team and there is no point...absolutely NO point in delaying it.

[SkinsGuy]

bedlamVR wrote:

The deal is for 4 years - we are still going to be paying in terms of draft picks for 3 of the 4 years so why is the team squabbling about offset language ?

Because I don't believe this is about RG3. This is probably about setting a precedent for the future. For dealing with future top draft picks.

This is why this is happening league-wide with the top draft picks. I think the teams (owners) want control of the offset language part of rookie contracts over the draftee.

Maybe they are colluding to?

[MWAI]

I was on the RG3 bangwagon back when most of the people here wanted to Suck for Luck and were hoping Matt Barkley declared. I know that the chances of RG3 getting cut are virtually nil. I know how good he is. I am not deluded. I am not paranoid. I know the chances are very, very small that he gets cut before his four year deal.

Just because I say I understand why the front office has a stake in trying to put offset language in his contract does not mean that I do not know the chances of the language being pretty much pointless are higher than the odds Griffin gets cut. But these are negotiations, and the organization has a responsibility to itself, on the one and a million shot that Griffin DOES get cut (and I am not saying he will, nor do I believe he will be), to protect itself in the extremely unlikely event that it does happen. Nor do I begrudge Griffin from wanting his contract fully guaranteed. But this is why we have contract negotiations, I.E you give a little, I give a little, and hopefulyl we meet somewhere close to the middle.

It's why being so goddamn paranoid about this is stupid. Griffin will sign his deal ahead of camp, if not a day or two late. And I know that may set him back several decades in his development, but simply saying "give him whatever he wants, there is no chance of him getting cut" isn't good enough.

How about you bite me?

Where did this even come from? When did I ever say that this organization needs to lay itself on the line for Davis? Quote me. Seriously, go back and quote me, and any "well I don't have time to go back in your thread and find specific quotes" horse**** won't be good enough. I want to know where in the bluest of blue hells I ever said that Davis should be allowed to get away with anything.

In fact, I would be nothing short of amazed, confused and annoyed if Davis' next contract (provided he gets one because he's on the franchise tag) DOESN'T have offset language of some sort, to protect the organization in the event that he gets cut/suspended/whatever.

Don't put ****ing words in my mouth. I have no problem debating **** with people who don't agree with what I say, but I'm not about to be accused of something I didn't ****ing say just because YOU don't like it. Tough ****, it's the internet, get a helmet and get over it.

Phrases like "How bout you bite me?" "Don't put ****ing words in my mouth." show a little insecurity and immaturity. .......WOW! You are taking this RG3 contract discussion way too personal fella. You need get control and seek some anger management. I think some of us just want to talk football.

[KCClybun]

Phrases like "How bout you bite me?" "Don't put ****ing words in my mouth." show a little insecurity and immaturity. .......WOW! You are taking this RG3 contract discussion way too personal fella. You need get control and seek some anger management. I think some of us just want to talk football.

I like how you ignored the content of my post where I basically dispelled and dismissed your paranoia for the drivel it is and went straight to the "you're insecure and immature". Especially because that part of the post had nothing to do with you.

But it's okay, it's awesome when people accuse you of ignoring points and then say you say some **** that you didn't say.

You're still wrong, by the way.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

My guess is that all the top drafted players who have not signed yet due to the "offset language" are all waiting to see who blinks first lol...if one of the top 7 (or 8, I forget) ends up signing withOUT any guarantees of the 4th year being paid, then the other teams will feel emboldened to stick to their guns...and conversely, if some of the other players end up signing WITH the 4th year being guaranteed even if they're playing for another team, it strengthens the player's hand in that they can say "Look...the other players drafted around me are getting it."

And of course the agents will be seen as dropping the ball if their client is the only highly drafted player to not get all 4 years fully guaranteed...and they are thinking of THEIR future as well, just like the teams and players are thinking about theirs.

---------- Post added July-15th-2012 at 02:46 PM ----------

I like how you ignored the content of my post where I basically dispelled and dismissed your paranoia for the drivel it is and went straight to the "you're insecure and immature". Especially because that part of the post had nothing to do with you.

But it's okay, it's awesome when people accuse you of ignoring points and then say you say some **** that you didn't say.

You're still wrong, by the way.

Hey, welcome to my world when it comes to discussing Cooley lol

[MWAI]

My guess is that all the top drafted players who have not signed yet due to the "offset language" are all waiting to see who blinks first lol...if one of the top 7 (or 8, I forget) ends up signing withOUT any guarantees of the 4th year being paid, then the other teams will feel emboldened to stick to their guns...and conversely, if some of the other players end up signing WITH the 4th year being guaranteed even if they're playing for another team, it strengthens the player's hand in that they can say "Look...the other players drafted around me are getting it."

And of course the agents will be seen as dropping the ball if their client is the only highly drafted player to not get all 4 years fully guaranteed...and they are thinking of THEIR future as well, just like the teams and players are thinking about theirs.

You may have a point here, but I would say let Cleveland go on holding their eyes open all the way to last place again. Let Dallas keep their eyes open and never blink. How about we start a frikken blinking contest and get our guy signed and in camp while those other teams haggle. Let the other teams sweat out those deals while RG3 is sweating on the practice field. Of course...thats just MY opinion.

---------- Post added July-15th-2012 at 02:46 PM ----------

Hey, welcome to my world when it comes to discussing Cooley lol

[KCClybun]

You may have a point here, but I would say let Cleveland go on holding their eyes open all the way to last place again. Let Dallas keep their eyes open and never blink. How about we start a frikken blinking contest and get our guy signed and in camp while those other teams haggle. Let the other teams sweat out those deals while RG3 is sweating on the practice field. Of course...thats just MY opinion.

Unfortunately that's not the way business works.

And your opinion is wrong.

[MWAI]

I like how you ignored the content of my post where I basically dispelled and dismissed your paranoia for the drivel it is and went straight to the "you're insecure and immature". Especially because that part of the post had nothing to do with you.

But it's okay, it's awesome when people accuse you of ignoring points and then say you say some **** that you didn't say.

You're still wrong, by the way.

Tell ya what. I am going to move on and talk to some other folks here who just want to DISCUSS FOOTBALL and I will let you go argue with somebody else. Good luck to you.

[KCClybun]

Tell ya what. I am going to move on and talk to some other folks here who just want to DISCUSS FOOTBALL and I will let you go argue with somebody else. Good luck to you.

I'm here to talk about the business of football. You may not like that aspect of it and want the team to just give him what he wants all for the symbolic gesture of having him in camp on the first day (when really it's just rookies who report on Monday and the vets come in next week, so how much time does RG3 really lose in the end?), but ultimately, that's not the way football works.

And your opinion that not having RG3 signed already is an indictment of the front office, that it makes us look incompetent, that it reminds you of Vinny Cerrato, and all manner of statements in that vain, is wrong. And you will be reminded as such as along as you continue to say things that are wrong, as will anyone who has this dumb, wrong opinion.

Fact is, that is football related. The whole post you ignored to call me immature was football related. But it's cool if you want me to only talk about football while you talk about how immature and insecure I am.

If you'll excuse me, I'm going to go watch some Barney while cuddling my security blanket and sucking my thumb.

[Taylor 36]

It's why being so goddamn paranoid about this is stupid. Griffin will sign his deal ahead of camp, if not a day or two late. And I know that may set him back several decades in his development, but simply saying "give him whatever he wants, there is no chance of him getting cut" isn't good enough.

How about you bite me?

Where did this even come from? When did I ever say that this organization needs to lay itself on the line for Davis? Quote me. Seriously, go back and quote me, and any "well I don't have time to go back in your thread and find specific quotes" horse**** won't be good enough. I want to know where in the bluest of blue hells I ever said that Davis should be allowed to get away with anything.

In fact, I would be nothing short of amazed, confused and annoyed if Davis' next contract (provided he gets one because he's on the franchise tag) DOESN'T have offset language of some sort, to protect the organization in the event that he gets cut/suspended/whatever.

Don't put ****ing words in my mouth. I have no problem debating **** with people who don't agree with what I say, but I'm not about to be accused of something I didn't ****ing say just because YOU don't like it. Tough ****, it's the internet, get a helmet and get over it.

This is a great place to start: http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?366687-PFT-Redskins-have-reached-out-to-Fred-Davis-about-doing-a-long-term-deal(M.E.T.)/page4&highlight=Fred+Davis though there are are few other threads of this nature.

Posts 51, 57, and 70 are telling on your dismissal of all of Davis's poor decisions and how you feel that it all so stupid for people to carry a "grudge" and hold on to such things as a player too busy partying to be able to get up and make mandatory meetings and practice and getting busted smoking up twice by the league. You know we still need to lock him up in a long term deal. Anyone who disagrees with your opinion, well there is evidence of how you treat those people as well, like saying we should have a thread titled why people should not be a GM. We should all bow to your knowledge and experience of running a franchise, right? Then, we have responses like those above -"...bite me," "...G.damn paranoid..stupid." Really classy, mature stuff. And post 115, where you admit that you won't reply to my post and questions because you can't "change my mind"? Talking and debating on a message board shouldn't be about changing one's mind. If you get someone to see a different view point or rethink an issue, good for you. But, it is more about sharing opinions and why you have such an opinion. However, if you are going to lay your opinion out on the board, expect some people to counter that opinion. If they counter it with ideas, points, and /or questions that you can't come back on, it is okay to say that you don't agree,but you can see where they are coming from, or to say I don't know about that, etc. Refusing to reply though, especially when you instigated many of the responses in the first place once again, but continuing on saying the same old tired stuff that has already been addressed, but you choose to ignore and hold your fingers in your ears is not classy and mature.

I like how you ignored the content of my post where I basically dispelled and dismissed your paranoia for the drivel it is and went straight to the "you're insecure and immature". Especially because that part of the post had nothing to do with you.

But it's okay, it's awesome when people accuse you of ignoring points and then say you say some **** that you didn't say.

You're still wrong, by the way.

Trying to call someone out for ignoring content in a post? Really, you? Calling what they say "drivel"? Again, your maturity and class are unrivaled on this board.