Why Indy could go with The LUCKy Horseshoe Or the Tres

[KDawg]

Bruce Arians the new OC is coming form the Steelers' date=' where it seems his performance wasn't good enough and he was retired for a whole 8 days, haha. - "During his time as coordinator, he turned the Steelers from a run-first team to a pass-heavy one to better suit Roethlisberger."

[/quote']

This is info that was in the OP.

We are Getting RG3. Set in stone.

I absolutely love when people make statements like this. It's not set in stone until it happens. It's just not. I think that will be the case. But it's certainly not "set in stone".

I think Indy has had their mind made up for a while now. As I said in the Luck Pro Day thread' date=' those guys were probably only there to report back if they saw some ridiculous red flag...like Luck completely forgot how to hold a football or he showed up drunk and stoned with a car full of transvestite hookers. So after the pro day they probably called the head honcho guys and said "Yep, he is still amazing". And that was that.[/quote']

Yesterday, the speculation was that Indy only sent their QB coach to Griffin's pro day because they weren't interested. Today, the speculation is that they only sent their QB coach to Luck's Pro Day because they are interested. What? Unless I missed something and Grigson and Irsay showed up at Luck's pro day...I love how people try to spin things to put their perspective into real life events.

The facts are the facts.

[GibbsFactor]

The Steelers offense was quite simple.

The receivers ran 9 routes and waited for Big Ben to scramble and then they broke it off and he found the open guy.

Honestly, that's all the Steelers do.

As for this RGIII to Indy nonsense, leave it at that. Nonsense. It's a done deal. Luck goes 1, RGIII will be our starting quarterback for the next 14 years. (He'll turn 36 and we'll trade him)

[Burgold]

I absolutely love when people make statements like this. It's not set in stone until it happens. It's just not. I think that will be the case. But it's certainly not "set in stone".

KDawg,

Stone errodes. Now, if it were set in plastic... THAT would be permanent!

[KDawg]

The Steelers offense was quite simple.

The receivers ran 9 routes and waited for Big Ben to scramble and then they broke it off and he found the open guy.

Honestly, that's all the Steelers do.

As for this RGIII to Indy nonsense, leave it at that. Nonsense. It's a done deal. Luck goes 1, RGIII will be our starting quarterback for the next 14 years. (He'll turn 36 and we'll trade him)

I stopped reading when I realized you have no idea what you're talking about in regards to Pittsburgh's offense.

KDawg,

Stone errodes. Now, if it were set in plastic... THAT would be permanent!

Excellent point!

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

KDawg,

Stone errodes. Now, if it were set in plastic... THAT would be permanent!

Nah, plastic has the potential to melt.

You need something more substantial, like titanium. That's the way forward.

Hail.

[Commander Adama]

KDawg,

Stone errodes. Now, if it were set in plastic... THAT would be permanent!

Ok is this going to go back and forth like in Megamind where they are talking about good and evil? (Sorry I have kids)

xmFXEcI_AA4

[GibbsFactor]

I stopped reading when I realized you have no idea what you're talking about in regards to Pittsburgh's offense.

:

Oh it's very simple and that is in fact, the way that O was run.

---------- Post added March-23rd-2012 at 08:04 AM ----------

I stopped reading when I realized you have no idea what you're talking about in regards to Pittsburgh's offense.

:

Don't get touchy because I called the thread nonsense. Everything I said was accurate. Steeler fans will even side with me.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Ok is this going to go back and forth like in Megamind where they are talking about good and evil? (Sorry I have kids)

NEVER apologize for bringing the greatness of the Mighty Will to the masses. In whatever guise.

Hail.

[KDawg]

Oh it's very simple and that is in fact, the way that O was run.

Is it?

The Steelers offense was certainly a pass-heavy offense. However, it was Arians that allowed it to slip late in games and fall into the old run, run, pass formula. It was this predictability that was his downfall. He used screens many, many times, in fact, so often that Terrell Suggs was able to see a bubble screen coming and pick it and dance all the way to the end zone, showing his teeth to the camera. His offense was predicated on many high routes, and very few intermediate routes. He used screens for the short game as an extension of the running game, and called for deep balls quite often, with very little regard for the intermediate zones.

The Steelers offense was most successful when he allowed Roethlisberger to call his own plays from the line of scrimmage, however, he often didn't stick with that. Calling plays from the LOS is something Luck would be able to do quite well, but Arians has shown a penchant for wanting control of his play calls in critical situations.

Both Griffin and Luck are able to move the pocket with extreme skill and accuracy. They evade pressure well and are athletic. Luck is Roethlisberger's size, and we know Arians loved Ben. However, RG3's athleticism is in a different hemisphere. They both fit quite well for different reasons. Luck is the field general Arians loves. Griffin has the experience in the spread. They are likely favoring Luck, but this is opinion.

Your "facts" aren't facts at all, but rather opinions. I wish people would stop labeling opinion as fact.

[DJD2]

I look at it this way. Luck has been the expected #1 pick since he announced he was coming back for his senior season. Forget whatever anybody else has done in that time, what exactly has Luck done to NOT be the #1 pick.

Indy would be crazy not to take him.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Moral: NEVER argue facts with ES resident Coach.

You'll end up looking silly.

Hail.

[KDawg]

I look at it this way. Luck has been the expected #1 pick since he announced he was coming back for his senior season. Forget whatever anybody else has done in that time, what exactly has Luck done to NOT be the #1 pick.

Indy would be crazy not to take him.

I don't disagree with this line of thinking. But the purpose of the OP was to show WHY Indy MIGHT want RG3. Nothing more. People here have carried this thread into no man's land with some of the responses. But the underlying point of the OP is that nothing is final until it's, well... final. Indy could decide on Griffin with VERY good reason. It's not likely. But it's possible.

[GibbsFactor]

Is it?

The Steelers offense was certainly a pass-heavy offense. However, it was Arians that allowed it to slip late in games and fall into the old run, run, pass formula. It was this predictability that was his downfall. He used screens many, many times, in fact, so often that Terrell Suggs was able to see a bubble screen coming and pick it and dance all the way to the end zone, showing his teeth to the camera. His offense was predicated on many high routes, and very few intermediate routes. He used screens for the short game as an extension of the running game, and called for deep balls quite often, with very little regard for the intermediate zones.

The Steelers offense was most successful when he allowed Roethlisberger to call his own plays from the line of scrimmage, however, he often didn't stick with that. Calling plays from the LOS is something Luck would be able to do quite well, but Arians has shown a penchant for wanting control of his play calls in critical situations.

Both Griffin and Luck are able to move the pocket with extreme skill and accuracy. They evade pressure well and are athletic. Luck is Roethlisberger's size, and we know Arians loved Ben. However, RG3's athleticism is in a different hemisphere. They both fit quite well for different reasons. Luck is the field general Arians loves. Griffin has the experience in the spread. They are likely favoring Luck, but this is opinion.

Your "facts" aren't facts at all, but rather opinions. I wish people would stop labeling opinion as fact.

Of course the playbook wasn't as simple as going deep and wait for Big Ben to scramble. Okay, they toss some bubble screens and ran some slants and digs, it doesn't change the fact that at the end of the day, 75% of passing plays that weren't quick passes were some variation of a deep route that the receiver would break off and get open on his own. Big Ben is out there playing backyard ball 75% of the time and just waiting for his receivers to get open or for a break in coverage.

Of course this is my opinion but it's also very much reality. Watch a Steelers game and you'll understand what I'm saying. I'm sure this isn't what the OC had in mind but it is in fact how Big Ben operates with his receivers. Very seldom will you see Big Ben throwing right at the top of his 5 or 7 step drop. He always breaks away from the pressure and the receivers constantly break off their routes when it happens.

I'm not even going to say this is an oline protection issue. It's more of an issue with Big Ben seemingly wanting to break the pocket and find an open man. He doesn't seem to want to run a time based system.

[DJD2]

I don't disagree with this line of thinking. But the purpose of the OP was to show WHY Indy MIGHT want RG3. Nothing more. People here have carried this thread into no man's land with some of the responses. But the underlying point of the OP is that nothing is final until it's, well... final. Indy could decide on Griffin with VERY good reason. It's not likely. But it's possible.

Agreed that nothing is final a month before the draft, it's just hard to imagine that Indy thinks RG3 has moved the needle that much.

[pjfootballer]

The following sentence will send everyone off the deep end by just merely mentioning it.

What If.....just What If Cleveland made an offer to Indianapolis for the #1 overall and Griffin III by giving away Four 1sts, and a 2nd (or hey, Five 1sts and a 2nd). Talk about getting one upped in the final hour, LoL. (By the way if I'm Indy and received such a ridiculous offer for Five 1sts and 2nd.....I'd take it before they realized what they've actually done).

Then we'd really be "Stuck with Luck". Gotta have fun with far fetched.....but possible scenarios. Let's see how long it takes before someone blows a gasket at the thought of Cleveland in the end leap frogging us for their/our man

I'm a Griffin III supporter by the way; I'm just saying......ANYTHING can happen leading up until the draft.

I talked about that scenerio about 3 weeks ago, before we made the trade with the Rams. Alot of people were on board with it. This was when I was more about Luck than Griffin, only because I wasn't sure we'd be in a position to get either at that time.

---------- Post added March-23rd-2012 at 08:25 AM ----------

Couple hours of angst followed by the realization that Andrew Luck is a Washington Redskin.

I think if Cleveland did that at this point, we'd still end up with Griffin, unless H & H were in love with Griffin, like Irsay is with Luck.

[GibbsFactor]

Moral: NEVER argue facts with ES resident Coach.

You'll end up looking silly.

Hail.

Please.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Please.

That wasn't necessarily directed at your exchange per se, more a general warning.

Taking him on over the nuances of x's and o's/ systems/ playbook's etc. is not a recommended course of action unless your 100% factual in what your debating.

Heed or leave the advice. Means little to me. Just advising of the likely outcome.

Hail.

[KDawg]

Of course this is my opinion but it's also very much reality. Watch a Steelers game and you'll understand what I'm saying. .

After the reply I just made, you think I didn't watch Steeler's games last year?

Roethlisberger does have a habit of "free lancing", but seeing how Arians liked him so much, I don't think that's something that irked Arians, and the fans and obviously the Rooney's weren't a big fan of that style, as they forced Arians out. They want to go back to smashmouth football.

My argument for a Griffin fit with Indy is based on that. They can run Arians' spread pass happy offense, and meanwhile they have a dual threat quarterback and can rely on the run game from the backs a whole heck of a lot less. Griffin has experience in the run game, and the respect for Griffin could do for Indy's backs what it did for Ganaway and Sanubi at Baylor. Ganaway had 1547 yards and 6.2 yards per carry. Salubi averaged 5.7 YPC. Obviously, the NFL game is different, and it's harder to put those kinds of numbers up, but Griffin opens things up.

Luck played in a pro style offense with two tight ends that were his safety nets. Not a knock on him in the least, by the way. The guy has an incredible football IQ and he used his resources to the best of his ability. Which is why I have NO DOUBT that he could run the spread offense quite well. He knows what he's doing. Especially due to the fact that Andrew Luck, in a PRO STYLE SYSTEM, had the very same effect on his backs, Stepfan Taylor and Tyler Gaffney, who averaged 5.5 and 6.1 yards per carry respectively.

Both guys fit the Arians system. Griffin has more experience in it and is slightly more athletic. Luck has much less experience in that style, but his football IQ is ridiculous. Both open up the run game quite well for the very fact they are mobile and excellent passers.

Considering EVERYTHING, I think the Colts should and likely will go with Andrew Luck. But there are reasons they could go with Griffin.

[GibbsFactor]

After the reply I just made, you think I didn't watch Steeler's games last year?

Roethlisberger does have a habit of "free lancing", but seeing how Arians liked him so much, I don't think that's something that irked Arians, and the fans and obviously the Rooney's weren't a big fan of that style, as they forced Arians out. They want to go back to smashmouth football.

My argument for a Griffin fit with Indy is based on that. They can run Arians' spread pass happy offense, and meanwhile they have a dual threat quarterback and can rely on the run game from the backs a whole heck of a lot less. Griffin has experience in the run game, and the respect for Griffin could do for Indy's backs what it did for Ganaway and Sanubi at Baylor. Ganaway had 1547 yards and 6.2 yards per carry. Salubi averaged 5.7 YPC. Obviously, the NFL game is different, and it's harder to put those kinds of numbers up, but Griffin opens things up.

Luck played in a pro style offense with two tight ends that were his safety nets. Not a knock on him in the least, by the way. The guy has an incredible football IQ and he used his resources to the best of his ability. Which is why I have NO DOUBT that he could run the spread offense quite well. He knows what he's doing. Especially due to the fact that Andrew Luck, in a PRO STYLE SYSTEM, had the very same effect on his backs, Stepfan Taylor and Tyler Gaffney, who averaged 5.5 and 6.1 yards per carry respectively.

Both guys fit the Arians system. Griffin has more experience in it and is slightly more athletic. Luck has much less experience in that style, but his football IQ is ridiculous. Both open up the run game quite well for the very fact they are mobile and excellent passers.

Considering EVERYTHING, I think the Colts should and likely will go with Andrew Luck. But there are reasons they could go with Griffin.

I completely agree. Again, I think the Steelers Offense is based off of a game plan but that game plan never seems to materialize throughout the game due to Big Ben's inability or desire to stay within it. He wants to make big plays. That type of play would lead you to believe that Griffin would, in fact, be the better choice. I'm not convinced thats what the OC wants though.

Also consider the pickle the Colts found themselves in by having Peyton Manning do his thing, running the offense. It left them no fall back option. You would think Irsay would be wary of bringing in such a similar quarterback that would run the same old check with me that Peyton did. There are legitimate reasons to look at the Colts situation and feel RGIII would be the better choice.

However, when you are drafting in the one car and just released your GOAT, you need to be 100%. RGIII has more question marks than Luck simply because Luck has been the favored #1 for two years. He has the resume. RGIII zoomed to the forefront this year. You want to take the more polished, proven player at 1. Luck is that guy. He's got the pedigree.

And anyway, Luck could run any system. I think you could put him in a spread and his numbers would have surpassed RGIIIs this year.

[pjfootballer]

This would have been better minus the full-retard speculation.

Are we still allowed to say retard? Not that it bothers me, but I'm wondering when the first person who is offended will come out.

---------- Post added March-23rd-2012 at 08:56 AM ----------

Yesterday, the speculation was that Indy only sent their QB coach to Griffin's pro day because they weren't interested. Today, the speculation is that they only sent their QB coach to Luck's Pro Day because they are interested. What? Unless I missed something and Grigson and Irsay showed up at Luck's pro day...I love how people try to spin things to put their perspective into real life events.

The facts are the facts.

And the fact is, Indy is taking Luck. Just by what you explained, it looks like their mind is made up. Like I said earlier in the thread, I'll put it at 99.9% we are getting Griffin. I'll leave you that point one percent.

[KDawg]

However, when you are drafting in the one car and just released your GOAT, you need to be 100%. RGIII has more question marks than Luck simply because Luck has been the favored #1 for two years.

Just because someone has been looked at for two years doesn't make him the better choice. Knowledgable, smart people have known about Griffin's ability and skills for the better part of 2-3 years. If you're drafting Luck #1, the reason damn well better not be: "We heard about him a year ago". There better be some concrete information there. Now, there is with Luck, he's a stud. But the argument that he's been talked about for two years is growing tiresome. That's not a valid reason to draft someone.

And anyway, Luck could run any system. I think you could put him in a spread and his numbers would have surpassed RGIIIs this year.

Not sure I agree that his numbers would have surpassed RG3s, but I'm in total agreement that he would have been an incredibly efficient passer in the spread. I said so in the post you just quoted.

[pjfootballer]

I look at it this way. Luck has been the expected #1 pick since he announced he was coming back for his senior season. Forget whatever anybody else has done in that time, what exactly has Luck done to NOT be the #1 pick.

Indy would be crazy not to take him.

And Carolina was on record saying Luck was the pick before he decided to return, so now it's 2 years running.

[Chris21]

I thought the OP presented some solid information in terms of why Indy could select RG3. Not sure how this thread got so derailed. We all know Luck is 99.99% a Colt at this point but the basis of this thread was just pointing out some well thought out information.

[KDawg]

And the fact is, Indy is taking Luck. Just by what you explained, it looks like their mind is made up. Like I said earlier in the thread, I'll put it at 99.9% we are getting Griffin. I'll leave you that point one percent.

Your definition of fact is a HELL of a lot different than the actual definition.

/fakt/Noun: 1.A thing that is indisputably the case.

I've, in my opinion, effectively argued that there are reasons why Indy COULD choose Griffin. You admitted there's a chance, albeit a small one, that they do go that route. That doesn't fit the definition of "A thing that is indisputably the case".

Again, your opinion is not a fact.

It's an educated, and probably correct, guess.

[KDawg]

I thought the OP presented some solid information in terms of why Indy could select RG3. Not sure how this thread got so derailed. We all know Luck is 99.99% a Colt at this point but the basis of this thread was just pointing out some well thought out information.

Thank you for getting it. Seriously. Wish more people actually read the OP. :applause: