should Orakpo and Kerrigan swap sides?

[joeknows]

is it possible for them to swap sides of the field or are the fundamentals and the mechanics so different that it would be prohibitive?

it just seems that while Rak is arguably bigger and stronger....Kerrigan may actually be more athletic based upon his numbers. so what im thinking is that while we know that Rak has a limited arsenal of moves.... maybe it would be of benefit to us if we had Kerrigan rushing from the blind side??

[TSO]

I don't think this is a bad idea... but not now. Something to look at during the offseason, that's for sure. Orakpo is left-handed after all and I think Kerrigan can play anywhere and do well.

[amm0409]

I think they are going to keep things the way they are this year.

I dont see a problem with it. Why not switch them around during the game? Move them back and forth!

[joeknows]

Ugh. ANOTHER freaking complain about Orakpo thread. How about you post in one of the other 10 threads this year. They play their positions for a reason and they have been frequently switching sides if you'd watch the games. Both have been very successful this year, only half a damn sack separates them. So you want them to switch positions? Great idea.

wow..... i wasnt complaining about orakpo at all....... chill

furthermore you jackass im not in the viewing area so i dont get to see too many games.... log out and do us all a favor

[moondog]

Ugh. ANOTHER freaking complain about Orakpo thread. How about you post in one of the other 10 threads this year. They play their positions for a reason and they have been frequently switching sides if you'd watch the games. Both have been very successful this year, only half a damn sack separates them. So you want them to switch positions? Great idea.

[CliffBattles]

only as a surprise

[Renegade7]

Not permanently. Kerrigan's athleticism is why I'd keep him strong side because of the TEs we go up against just in our own division.

Having said that, I do feel the two of them should swap sides more often pre-play, just to further scare defenses and match-up situations. Great DE duos do it all the time...

[TSO]

Not permanently. Kerrigan's athleticism is why I'd keep him strong side because of the TEs we go up against just in our own division.

Having said that, I do feel the two of them should swap sides more often pre-play, just to further scare defenses and match-up situations. Great DE duos do it all the time...

Honestly, Orakpo has been outstanding in coverage this year. That aspect of his game has been severely underlooked this year. It may be due to the fact that he isn't covering elite TEs more than he is RBs out of the backfield, but still... he's definitely improved there. I think it's really worth taking a look at during the offseason.

Or maybe not, our front seven is doing just fine the way it is.

[joeknows]

Not permanently. Kerrigan's athleticism is why I'd keep him strong side because of the TEs we go up against just in our own division.

Having said that, I do feel the two of them should swap sides more often pre-play, just to further scare defenses and match-up situations. Great DE duos do it all the time...

true.... i didnt consider the TE and coverage issue......

---------- Post added December-19th-2011 at 11:35 PM ----------

Honestly, Orakpo has been outstanding in coverage this year. That aspect of his game has been severely underlooked this year. It may be due to the fact that he isn't covering elite TEs more than he is RBs out of the backfield, but still... he's definitely improved there. I think it's really worth taking a look at during the offseason.

Or maybe not, our front seven is doing just fine the way it is.

well i was just thinking that if Rak cant get the holding calls and his arsenal is limited ......maybe we could put Kerrigan over there and his athleticism will help him avoid the holds since they dont seem to get called over there

[moondog]

wow..... i wasnt complaining about orakpo at all....... chill

1) There are more than enough threads about our LB's for you to ask this question

2) You base your assumption that Kerrigan is more athletic on statistics which makes no sense

3) Your belief is that Kerrigan, a rookie, will be more productive going against Left Tackles, aka the guys who are typically the best linemen on the team

4) Orakpo's arsenal is limited? I beg to differ, I've seen him beat guys inside, outside, bull rush, spin move, stutter step one way and beat them to the other. Much of the time it is simply willpower and Kerrigan/Orakpo are both extremely high motor guys.

And at this point, I really don't care if you're complaining. It's not a personal thing against you. It's the fact that so many ignorant people (again, I'm not talking about you, necessarily) continue to complain/make threads about "Orakpo isn't this, he isn't that, we should trade him, he's not worthy of #13 overall, he's not yet reached the level of DeMarcus Ware aka a HOF'er, etc."

Time and again others as well as myself have apparently wasted our time proving them wrong only to have them not only ignore everything we say because apparently we should trade one of our best players because that is so easily replaced, but also to have other posters routinely start new threads stating or implying Orakpo is inadequate. Why is Clay Matthews playing from the same side as Kerrigan? Why does Kerrigan play that side? Pretty sure Kerrigan played from that damn side in college too. It's WORKING. It is where they are most comfortable playing and our coordinator is doing a good job mixing up where they come from. All of these accusations or implications or whatever you want to call them are completely ridiculous and I will never understand them.

People constantly ****ed and moaned when we had ZERO pass rush just a few years ago. We draft young stud pass-rushers who have not only proved themselves but allowed others to make plays as well, our pass-rush is now among the best in the league despite usually playing from behind, and people STILL are not satisfied. Unbelievable.

[Renegade7]

Honestly, Orakpo has been outstanding in coverage this year. That aspect of his game has been severely underlooked this year. It may be due to the fact that he isn't covering elite TEs more than he is RBs out of the backfield, but still... he's definitely improved there. I think it's really worth taking a look at during the offseason.

Or maybe not, our front seven is doing just fine the way it is.

Aguhg. Really, a lot has been made of Orakpo with his coverage, but even I have come out and defended him because it has improved. Long-term tho, Kerrigan is going to progress and I like his body type matched up with the likes of Witten and Vernon Davis. That's based on what I'm seeing so far this season at least, so who knows. I definetly not the coach...

[joeknows]

1) There are more than enough threads about our LB's for you to ask this question

2) You base your assumption that Kerrigan is more athletic on statistics which makes no sense

3) Your belief is that Kerrigan, a rookie, will be more productive going against Left Tackles, aka the guys who are typically the best linemen on the team

And at this point, I really don't care if you're complaining. It's not a personal thing against you. It's the fact that so many ignorant people (again, I'm not talking about you, necessarily) continue to complain/make threads about "Orakpo isn't this, he isn't that, we should trade him, he's not worthy of #13 overall, he's not yet reached the level of DeMarcus Ware aka a HOF'er, etc."

Time and again others as well as myself have apparently wasted our time proving them wrong only to have them not only ignore everything we say because apparently we should trade one of our best players because that is so easily replaced, but also to have other posters routinely start new threads stating or implying Orakpo is inadequate. Why is Clay Matthews playing from the same side as Kerrigan? Why does Kerrigan play that side? Pretty sure Kerrigan played from that damn side in college too. It's WORKING. It is where they are most comfortable playing and our coordinator is doing a good job mixing up where they come from. All of these accusations or implications or whatever you want to call them are completely ridiculous and I will never understand them.

People constantly ****ed and moaned when we had ZERO pass rush just a few years ago. We draft young stud pass-rushers who have not only proved themselves but allowed others to make plays as well, our pass-rush is now among the best in the league despite usually playing from behind, and people STILL are not satisfied. Unbelievable.

still ... you need to chill. you are so off base with both of your post so far you are making a fool of yourself.

my statement was no way an indictment against Rak. however since you brought it up.... why is it a rookie is that close in sacks as a 3rd year player who rushes from the blind side? the mere fact the QB cant see Rak coming should give him an edge.

but i refuse to let you derail this thread into a ***** about Rak thread because that is in no way what it is. and i take particular offense to you calling me ignorant etc in your childish back handed passive aggressive manner. especially when i showed some humility by asking in a way that those who may know <not you obviously> could explain why such a move wouldnt be beneficial to Rak, Kerrigan AND the team.

so now im done with you ....

[repo_4]

1) There are more than enough threads about our LB's for you to ask this question

2) You base your assumption that Kerrigan is more athletic on statistics which makes no sense

3) Your belief is that Kerrigan, a rookie, will be more productive going against Left Tackles, aka the guys who are typically the best linemen on the team

4) Orakpo's arsenal is limited? I beg to differ, I've seen him beat guys inside, outside, bull rush, spin move, stutter step one way and beat them to the other. Much of the time it is simply willpower and Kerrigan/Orakpo are both extremely high motor guys.

And at this point, I really don't care if you're complaining. It's not a personal thing against you. It's the fact that so many ignorant people (again, I'm not talking about you, necessarily) continue to complain/make threads about "Orakpo isn't this, he isn't that, we should trade him, he's not worthy of #13 overall, he's not yet reached the level of DeMarcus Ware aka a HOF'er, etc."

Time and again others as well as myself have apparently wasted our time proving them wrong only to have them not only ignore everything we say because apparently we should trade one of our best players because that is so easily replaced, but also to have other posters routinely start new threads stating or implying Orakpo is inadequate. Why is Clay Matthews playing from the same side as Kerrigan? Why does Kerrigan play that side? Pretty sure Kerrigan played from that damn side in college too. It's WORKING. It is where they are most comfortable playing and our coordinator is doing a good job mixing up where they come from. All of these accusations or implications or whatever you want to call them are completely ridiculous and I will never understand them.

People constantly ****ed and moaned when we had ZERO pass rush just a few years ago. We draft young stud pass-rushers who have not only proved themselves but allowed others to make plays as well, our pass-rush is now among the best in the league despite usually playing from behind, and people STILL are not satisfied. Unbelievable.

I didnt take the OP as a "complaint" at all, just a question. What is wrong with being curious about the difference in production from making a move that might benefit both? Maybe it does, maybe it doesnt but what is the big deal about just asking?

[moondog]

still ... you need to chill. you are so off base with both of your post so far you are making a fool of yourself.

my statement was no way an indictment against Rak. however since you brought it up.... why is it a rookie is that close in sacks as a 3rd year player who rushes from the blind side? the mere fact the QB cant see Rak coming should give him an edge.

but i refuse to let you derail this thread into a ***** about Rak thread because that is in no way what it is. and i take particular offense to you calling me ignorant etc in your childish back handed passive aggressive manner. especially when i showed some humility by asking in a way that those who may know <not you obviously> could explain why such a move wouldnt be beneficial to Rak, Kerrigan AND the team.

so now im done with you ....

So...basically...you failed to read my post...

1) Kerrigan primarily played from the left side in college

2) Orakpo primarily played from the right side in college and has almost exclusively played there in the NFL

3) I specified I was not calling you ignorant as this question is less questioning Orakpo's ability...however, there are several other threads where this belongs

4) I mentioned Matthews, who plays from the same side as Kerrigan almost exclusively...you say rushing from the blind side should instantly be an advantage - then why do the Packers play Matthews on the left side? Why does Walden, who rarely rushes and has only 3 sacks, play the right side? The answer - it's where these guys have almost always played from and any advantage of the QB's "blind-side" is arguably neutralized by the fact that probably ever LT in the league is a better pass blocker than the RT on that same team

I fail to see how I need to chill or am childish or backhanded passive aggressive...I'm not spouting off. I've made several points to say why they should not switch sides permanently. I haven't been passive aggressive, I strongly disagree that they should switch sides and I've said why.

I highly doubt anyone else who has read a single post I've made concerning Orakpo this entire season would say I "obviously cannot explain" an issue addressing him, even if they disagree with me. In fact, I think if you look at any of my posts in threads about him, you would agree I've probably made about as logical, informed, and researched arguments as anyone else on the topic. So try not to be too upset that it took only a few posts for someone to explain why these two should not switch sides.

....finally....as for your "you jackass, I live outside the area and don't get to see too many games...." That's fine, trust me I understand. I have only been able to watch the two primetime games at home. The rest I've had to go to BW3 every single Sunday to watch the team and have done so. Take it from someone who has seen all the games, we routinely move them around and blitz Orakpo even up the middle or in twists to free up Bowen. Another example of why Orakpo's ability/play should not be based off his sack numbers this year - he consistently frees up other players or pressures QB's into sacks for Kerrigan. It's no coincidence that Bowen has more sacks this year than the rest of his career combined or that Kerrigan has so many sacks. I can think of at least 2 sacks this year for Kerrigan that came directly as a result of Orakpo's pressure, including yesterday...a play that was called incorrectly - should have been a fumble recovered that was recovered by Orakpo.

---------- Post added December-20th-2011 at 01:05 AM ----------

I didnt take the OP as a "complaint" at all, just a question. What is wrong with being curious about the difference in production from making a move that might benefit both? Maybe it does, maybe it doesnt but what is the big deal about just asking?

My only problem is the amount of threads specifically addressing Orakpo or our LB's, especially one's specifically labeled "Official all things Redskins LB's" type threads. There is at least one, if not two threads right now that are very active and at the top of the board that are discussing Orakpo. So please post this question in one of those and I guarantee you get your question answered and the debate can continue in a more consolidated thread. This question has already been posed by several or at least addressed in the sense that many fans, myself included, were happy to see us start moving Orakpo and Kerrigan around, especially blitzing them from the same side. But in no way should this be a permanent switch or even something more than a handful of plays per game. I especially like the package with Kerrigan/Orakpo on the same side and Rob Jackson blitzing from the other.

[joeknows]

So...basically...you failed to read my post...

1) Kerrigan primarily played from the left side in college

2) Orakpo primarily played from the right side in college and has almost exclusively played there in the NFL

3) I specified I was not calling you ignorant as this question is less questioning Orakpo's ability...however, there are several other threads where this belongs

4) I mentioned Matthews, who plays from the same side as Kerrigan almost exclusively...you say rushing from the blind side should instantly be an advantage - then why do the Packers play Matthews on the left side? Why does Walden, who rarely rushes and has only 3 sacks, play the right side? The answer - it's where these guys have almost always played from and any advantage of the QB's "blind-side" is arguably neutralized by the fact that probably ever LT in the league is a better pass blocker than the RT on that same team

I fail to see how I need to chill or am childish or backhanded passive aggressive...I'm not spouting off. I've made several points to say why they should not switch sides permanently. I haven't been passive aggressive, I strongly disagree that they should switch sides and I've said why.

I highly doubt anyone else who has read a single post I've made concerning Orakpo this entire season would say I "obviously cannot explain" an issue addressing him, even if they disagree with me. In fact, I think if you look at any of my posts in threads about him, you would agree I've probably made about as logical, informed, and researched arguments as anyone else on the topic. So try not to be too upset that it took only a few posts for someone to explain why these two should not switch sides.

---------- Post added December-20th-2011 at 01:05 AM ----------

My only problem is the amount of threads specifically addressing Orakpo or our LB's, especially one's specifically labeled "Official all things Redskins LB's" type threads. There is at least one, if not two threads right now that are very active and at the top of the board that are discussing Orakpo. So please post this question in one of those and I guarantee you get your question answered and the debate can continue in a more consolidated thread. This question has already been posed by several or at least addressed in the sense that many fans, myself included, were happy to see us start moving Orakpo and Kerrigan around, especially blitzing them from the same side. But in no way should this be a permanent switch or even something more than a handful of plays per game. I especially like the package with Kerrigan/Orakpo on the same side and Rob Jackson blitzing from the other.

i appreciate your pov on the proposed question... and your answer is reasonable..... however you should look at the way you first approached this thread.

its after mid nite mon night/tues morn.... i did in fact read through the previous thread titles containing the names.... you know the one that pops up when you make a new thread, and none of them in my opinion, were suited to my question. so being the time of the night it is if my thread was ill advised...... it will disappear by morning. causing no one any grief.

was just trying to create a conversation and get opinions on making such a move.

so still...... if you didnt like it.... get bent

[moondog]

i appreciate your pov on the proposed question... and your answer is reasonable..... however you should look at the way you first approached this thread.

its after mid nite mon night/tues morn.... i did in fact read through the previous thread titles containing the names.... you know the one that pops up when you make a new thread, and none of them in my opinion, were suited to my question. so being the time of the night it is if my thread was ill advised...... it will disappear by morning. causing no one any grief.

was just trying to create a conversation and get opinions on making such a move.

so still...... if you didnt like it.... get bent

No one's getting bent over a thread in which you asked a question that has already been answered - they do switch sides, frequently, although I don't think it has resulted in a single sack for either of them or the team. For all reasons listed above, no, they should not switch sides permanently. Given the time of night and the fact I just spent about 15 minutes researching my answer and typing a post in another Orakpo thread, perhaps you can imagine and appreciate my frustration at immediately seeing another thread implying Orakpo is inadequate at his position.

... .... ... ... ... ...

[joeknows]

No one's getting bent over a thread in which you asked a question that has already been answered - they do switch sides, frequently, although I don't think it has resulted in a single sack for either of them or the team. For all reasons listed above, no, they should not switch sides permanently. Given the time of night and the fact I just spent about 15 minutes researching my answer and typing a post in another Orakpo thread, perhaps you can imagine and appreciate my frustration at immediately seeing another thread implying Orakpo is inadequate at his position.

... .... ... ... ... ...

point is i wasnt implying orakpo is inadequate.... just merely suggesting he would be more productive from the other side as kerrigan would as well... my question was not at all an indictment on either player but merely attempting to consider if the aces are actually in their places.

[LadySkinsFan]

What started as an interesting thread degenerated into another web fight.

If the mods want to merge the thread, they will. Maybe they will leave it alone. moondog, you don't get to make the call whether a thread is germane or not. The mods do a good job and I support the mods.

Back on topic. Interesting POV in changing Orakpo and Kerrigan. To my mind, Orakpo could learn something from our rookie in technique to get around those holding OLinemen.

[Going Commando]

There is no need to tamper with the pass rush as it is working extremely well right now.

I also disagree with two of the premises in the OP.

- Orakpo is a faster, more fluid athlete than Kerrigan.

- Orakpo is a better pure pass rusher than Kerrigan.

[S.T.real,lights,out]

- Orakpo is a faster, more fluid athlete than Kerrigan.

- Orakpo is a better pure pass rusher than Kerrigan.

Which is why you put him on the left side to go against the RT who is usually not as good as the LT, Plus i think it rushes the QB when he can see the pressure getting to him and not just having to feel it..

[bedlamVR]

Having watched Rak and Kerrigan in the games (I am not in the catchment area either but somehow ... somehow I have managed to watch every game this season) I think they do move around quite fluidly and set up in different positions so they are not strickly LOLB and ROLBs( i don't think there is a 3-4 scheme that is so regimented).

That said I am sure the positions are not 100% interchangeable with different coverage responisibilities and personally I think both Rak and Kerrigan are doing well in their roles . If it turns out with a full offseason and training camp and OTAs the coaches think Kerrigan might be better suited to the right rather than the left (where he has played most of his collage career) then that is when they will switch but I don't see the need to play around with their positions and potentially stunt Kerrigans development by shuffling him around the defense .

I also like Orakpo over the OLT as he is the better pass rusher - Kerrigan is good and disruptive but Rak draws alot of attention which allows the reist of the pass rushers to get the most of their match ups Kerrigan might not get the same attention on the right and that changes the balance of the front 7 .

I see no sense in trying to fix something that aint broke .

[paloosa]

I would say that we leave that for next year and instead of switching sides as their starting position they mix it up by switching sides during games to create confusion for the opposing offense like Ware does for Dallas except we have two players that they have to worry about.

[thecardiacrll]

I think they should switch back and forth during games kinda like Dallas does with ware. When you have a good pash rusher the tackles work on technique that week of who there going against. so switching it up would work great and it's nice we can do it because we have 2 awesome pass rushers most teams dont have that luxury.

[Going Commando]

Which is why you put him on the left side to go against the RT who is usually not as good as the LT, Plus i think it rushes the QB when he can see the pressure getting to him and not just having to feel it..

No I think you put your big hat on a big hat so to speak. You want your most skilled pass rusher to match up with their most skilled pass protector. If he wins that matchup with their LT, then you're golden on defense for that day because you're going to disrupt their entire gameplan on offense. You make your lesser rushers more effective because the offense has to start sliding protections and extra help over to the blindside. Your other rushers end up with favorable matchups and they get pressure themselves.

The goal is to get as many defenders to the QB as prudent and possible every passing play. That's best achieved by the big hat on big hat approach IMO. It works for the Steelers and Colts in the past and its working for us right now.

The net effectiveness of our pass rush would be worse if you put Orakpo on a worse edge protector only to move Kerrigan to a matchup that's unfavorable for him. You get less total pressure that way. Orakpo and Kerrigan are winning their individual battles at a highly productive clip positioned where they are right now.

Don't fix it if it ain't broke.

Swapping your best passrusher over to the left side of the defense because he's been rendered ineffective by the opposing LT is an admission of defeat to me. It's nice to change things up every so often to befuddle the offense and force them to adjust their matchups. But doing so heavily after the half like the Cowboys have done with Ware against us is a signal that your stud rusher has lost his individual battle against the LT and is a mismatch.

RE: blindside pressure vs. pressure from the QB's handed side, it's better and more dangerous when a QB can't see the pressure coming because then he can't avoid it as easily. The biggest plays tend to come when a QB is unaware of the pressure.

---------- Post added December-20th-2011 at 09:32 AM ----------

I think they should switch back and forth during games kinda like Dallas does with ware. When you have a good pash rusher the tackles work on technique that week of who there going against. so switching it up would work great and it's nice we can do it because we have 2 awesome pass rushers most teams dont have that luxury.

I think the Cowboys do that mainly when Ware isn't getting effective pressure on the left side--not to keep the offense off balance.

I think flipping your formations often eventually starts selling your playcall and makes it easier to key on.

It can also disrupt the rhythm of a really good end/OLB.

It takes a long time to effectively set up moves, soften the edge, and assert your will over an opposing OL. Constantly moving around makes it harder for you to do those things.

And flipping your formations could be really tough on your linebackers and ends on running plays.

Diversity and versatility is good to a point because it's always nice to confuse the offense. But you have to keep it in check. At it's core, I think the best approach when you have two great pass rushing linebackers like we do is to just go out and let them beat up opposing tackles--just let them win their matchups because they can do it to almost every team. Enjoy the ride, life is good. We went to so much trouble to get two great OLBs so that we could run these powerful symmetrical formations that become very tough to read just like the Steelers have had the past few seasons. Let's use that advantage to the fullest.

[jthor99]

I agree with other Kerrigan needs to stay on the strong side, but I don't think the OP is irrational whats so ever.

I want to see Rak get much better in run diagnosing, and I would like to see him play a little more like Suggs in Baltimore. His lack of run support, allows this defense to get gashed more often then I would like. Personally, if I am an O Cord preparing for the Redskins, I am running early and often on Rak's side.