Official ES Redskins vs Giants OC/DC Discussion Thread (Beware of the Hindsight Bias!)

[Oldfan]

As part of the continual, mutual effort to upgrade the quality of the football discussion on this site, I will take this opportunity to warn fellow members (those not already aware of it) of the Hindsight Bias.

When we grade decision makers whose decisions are in the public eye: politicians, businessmen, football coaches -- particularly offensive coordinators -- we are usually too harsh because the fact that we know the outcome of their decisions implants a bias in our minds that is hard to shake no matter how much we want to be fair. This is the Hindsight Bias.

Hindsight bias, or alternatively the knew-it-all-along effect and creeping determinism, is the inclination to see events that have already occurred as being more predictable than they were before they took place. For more information click http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindsight_bias.

Some really bad calls are made but never questioned because they had a good outcome. Many good calls are questioned because the play was executed poorly or the opponent simply outplayed our guys.

What calls do you question in this game? Please explain.

Where does Kyle stand with you right now? How about Jim Haslett?

[Hubbs]

Like I said in the game thread, I think today's game shows what this offense will do with consistency as we keep upgrading our pieces. Receivers are wide open, the running game has generally been picking up yards in chunks, and we look like a contender.

[D'Pablo]

I saw a commitment to the running game today that I hadn't seen all season long. Not every run has to pick up big chunks to be successful. They did a great job setting up the pass.

[Duckus]

Kyle's offense is going to be insanely good when it actually has top level talent.

[Warhead36]

Kyle is one of the best OCs and playcallers in the league. He can get a bit redundant at times but his play design and creativity is top notch. I'm very happy with him, just hope he doesn't leave.

[authentic]

Where are the people now, who where all for firing Kyle? *crickets* *crickets*...BTW, our coaching staff CLEARLY out coached the Giants staff today. And how does it feel to finally sweep them. When was the last time we done that?

[Reaper 21]

Kyle was great today. I agree authentic no Kyle haters they must have forgot

[skins2323]

Kyle is one of the best OCs and playcallers in the league. He can get a bit redundant at times but his play design and creativity is top notch. I'm very happy with him, just hope he doesn't leave.

Where is he going? He is coaching under his dad, and I think its pretty obvious that he came here with the idea of taking over for his dad once the ship has been fixed. IMO, we'll see Shanny Sr. for 3 more years, and then move into an office position while Kyle takes over as head coach. Just my 2 cents..

[Tsoe]

Like I said in the game thread, I think today's game shows what this offense will do with consistency as we keep upgrading our pieces. Receivers are wide open, the running game has generally been picking up yards in chunks, and we look like a contender.

I don't think the offense was consistent at all, a number of drives were bogged down by turnovers and not converting. This had the makings to be more of a blowout than it was if the offense was consistent.

[Grumpy Vet]

Love the win...but I must be honest...no attack on OP - but an overall observation on the continual decline - When 52% of the thread titles on my Extremeskins Fourm start page begin w/ with "Official....blah blah.." and are authored by someone other than mods.....I log out.

[Hubbs]

I don't think the offense was consistent at all, a number of drives were bogged down by turnovers and not converting. This had the makings to be more of a blowout than it was if the offense was consistent.

I said they'd do it with consistency when we have the right pieces.

[Enter Apotheosis]

Love the win...but I must be honest...no attack on OP - but an overall observation on the continual decline - When 52% of the thread titles on my Extremeskins Fourm start page begin w/ with "Official....blah blah.." and are authored by someone other than mods.....I log out.

If you haven't been paying attention, all of the positional game day discussion threads are started by members at the behest of the mods. It's not just some annoying, ego-driven thing (although that is sometimes the case with other "official" threads).

[Skinsinparadise]

I am not in love with Rex but I am cooler about him than I was earlier in the season -- i don't mind him as a backup long run. If you upgrade at QB. And perhaps let Hankerson develop at WR, maybe add another guy. Can W. Smith play RT if not draft one. This draft thus far is looking very good. The free agency class for the most part ditto. One more off season like that, and I think this team might be good as soon as next season.

I liked the play calling today, it was aggressive. For the most part I am cool with Kyle, with some exceptions like the Jets game where I thought he got away from the run. A lot of shifting and movement on the D line of late presnap which seems to confuse offenses.

[Hooper]

Kyle was great today. I agree authentic no Kyle haters they must have forgot

Kyle might just be the best young mind in the game,

What would this offense look like with the talent of NY, Dallas, or PHL?

I feel like Kyle's scheme could get me open.

[Reaper 21]

I agree Hooper, you know i believe in this organization going forward

[MartinC]

Where are the people now, who where all for firing Kyle? *crickets* *crickets*...BTW, our coaching staff CLEARLY out coached the Giants staff today. And how does it feel to finally sweep them. When was the last time we done that?

1999 as per the game commentary.

Kyle called a good game today. We ran the ball a lot to take pressure off an inexperienced line and because we had a lead - its not been often we have had a big cushion at the half and been able to play ball control and milk the clock. What stands out to me and has done all year s how often we get receivers open in the intermediate passing game - with better talent at QB, additions on the line, and another good receiver this could be a really really good offense.

[TSO]

I'm not going to get into details and why I think what right now, but I absolutely LOVE Kyle Shanahan's offensive style. I like Haslett's style as well... though I'm less inclined to believe we could be dominant on defense as opposed to really, really good with him. I think Haslett can get outcoached at times, whereas Kyle is more consistently likely to outcoach opposing teams. I honestly believe with more talent on the offensive side of the ball this will become more evident as time goes on.

I've been an ardent defender of Kyle's since he's been here, so no hindisight bias there. I've taken quite the amount of heat sticking up for him, and will continue to do so. His playcalls, in my eyes, are nothing short of excellent and the fault lies in the execution more than anything else.

[NoCalMike]

I've been critical of Kyle many times, but it was never for his offense itself, it was for his playcalling.

The scheme itself I never had a problem with, it was more his play calling.

[DieselPwr44]

He hasn't flat out abandoned the run and went pass happy since the Jets game.

He's learning..........

[RandyHolt]

We didnt run zone sweep left predictably, we tossed the ball a LOT all over, instead.

Hindsight NWS, we should have been more diversified in our run plays much earlier in the year. We had been too predictable. I still think we should have run hurry up one time per game, at a random time.

[skins island connection]

Where are the people now, who where all for firing Kyle? *crickets* *crickets*...BTW, our coaching staff CLEARLY out coached the Giants staff today. And how does it feel to finally sweep them. When was the last time we done that?

Here I Is !!

Yea, I'm one of the so-called haters, and I don't plan on hopping on the "broken clock is right twice a day" pat on the back mentality either. But I'll give credit where its due, and yes, the Giants were out-coached and out-played the entire game, so here's the "cudos" to Kyle, I just hope he doesn't drop the bowl.

But I cannot ride on a few games a season where he actually called a good game scheme-wise, because the same scheme that brought the Giants to their knees sunday will not work every single sunday. BTW; crickets are gooood when dipped in chocolate...

[skinny21]

Overall I've been happy with the play-calling. I think (as someone mentioned earlier) that execution was the main culprit in our poor offensive showings. I think an improved/healthy line (with better depth) along with getting our TEs back (if Davis comes back) will help considerably.

The line needs to eliminate some of the losses on run plays and buy Grossman (or whoever) more time to find the open guy. Added talent and the experience being gained by the young guys will help these areas. Cooley and Davis are pretty good blockers and while Davis is a mismatch for defenses, Cooley excels at finding holes in zone coverage.

So, with all these tools/improvements in place I think Kyle's play-calling will really shine.

[darrelgreenie]

Kyle is a work in progress.

Over the past few games his gameplan/playcalling has begun to resemble a traditional Mike Shanahan Denver WCO, even down to the toss run being a staple.

The overall diversity in the running game his improved (see toss), but it still doesn't match the variety shown by the good/great run teams.

Kyle is still too run focused for my taste given the personnel but its getting better.

I would like to see a crisper offense.

More tempo, faster personnel grouping changes and fewer wasted timeouts and less of QB looking at the sideline waiting for a play.

I still would like to see more Slants and screens but overall the offense is getting better.

I like Haslett.

[bikie]

for the first time in a long while, I came away sunday with the belief that the gameplan was more tailored towards our player's strengths (particularly Rex) rather than seeing if the players could fit into the system.