The Official(ish) 2012 Quarterback Prospect Thread

[pjfootballer]

Wow Tannehill's girlfriend is smokin hot!!

Pics or she doesn't exist.:evilg:

[clskinsfan]

But clearly Barkley plays a VASTLY tougher schedule than Griffin and is surrounded by much less talent than Jones. Love the Barkley arguments because they just don't rely on facts.

Barkley has faced VASTLY superior defenses this season. There really is no comparison or argument.

[Laron Burgundy]

Barkley has faced VASTLY superior defenses this season. There really is no comparison or argument.

Care to note what tough defenses Barkley faced? Average rank of pass efficiency defense Barkley faced: 70th, Griffin: 70th. Even if you want to count the FCS school as 121st that puts his overall to 75th. They've both faced a bunch of bad defenses, but it's too cute you want to call that VASTLY superior and claim there's no argument or comparison. I might even be willing to give you that Barkley faced SLIGHTLY superior defenses, but his surrounding talent is VASTLY superior, of that there is no comparison or argument. And then Griffin's production is VASTLY superior, so if using the 'slightly tougher competition' argument makes you feel like that's enough to credit Barkley as even an equal to Griffin, well, have at it.

I'm not sure if Griffin will become an elite qb in the nfl, I'm really not because we haven't seen a qb like him so it's difficult to project. Certainly he has some of the best qualities you could look for in a qb, his speed and accuracy are elite, his arm strength, decision-making, and release speed are certainly good enough, but his mechanics are sloppy. Barkley, however, I feel is all-too-easy to project. We have seen his type countless times, with the easiest comparisons being Leinart, Sanchez, or Clausen, and looking back Barkley might honestly be the LEAST impressive of those guys.

[Newera]

Okay, how about if we can't get RG3, we take Richardson and Moore in the second or third. Personally I don't think Moore is going to last past the third. Or, Cousins, I prefer Moore, he reminds me of a little bit smaller Montana. He's just so consistent.

[Destino]

Landry Jones second straight game with no touchdown passes and this time 2 picks and a slightly over 50% completion percentage.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Landry Jones second straight game with no touchdown passes and this time 2 picks and a slightly over 50% completion percentage.

Didn't watch it all, but it was horrid weather for the QB's in Norman. 40 plus MPH gusting winds. Not excusing anything, but the conditions were definitely a factor. And last week he lead the Sooners on some massive drives down in Waco only to have their man mountain of a freshman QB, who's built like a LB, Blake Bell finish off 4 of them.

I wouldn't read too much into either game.

Hail.

[Destino]

I think Bell being put in the game in redzone situations is cause for alarm. I don't care how big the bruiser is you don't bench a star QB in the red zone for a more limited option unless the coach feels more comfortable with the ball in someone else's hands. Not saying Landry is a bust because of this but it should make the scouts look closer.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Maybe, maybe not.

I personally think your reading too much into something that's not there and OU are just utilizing a nigh on unstoppable weapon. When you get those two FB's in there from the 10 on in, with Bell behind them, you've 750 pounds or so running straight down your gut. Seems a pretty smart ploy to utilize that. Particularly in the collegiate game.

Hail.

[Pedro]

Okay, how about if we can't get RG3, we take Richardson and Moore in the second or third. Personally I don't think Moore is going to last past the third. Or, Cousins, I prefer Moore, he reminds me of a little bit smaller Montana. He's just so consistent.

Griffin may not declare though if we end up 2nd overall and we're obviously after him we have to be a tempting proposition for him. So many options when the QB is Moore if that were who our FO were after. Your example may involve a trade down so we could end up with Richardson, a RT like Mike Adams, a D player like Hightower or Janoris Jenkins with the extra pick then Moore with our 3rd and 4th(s) onward to add some BPAs. Outside of Griffin/Luck Moore is my preferred option but I feel he is unlikely due needing to build himself physically, and so sit a year or two. Mentally I would expect him to be ready to go week 2 of TC.

Trade down twice and get Decastro/Mike Adams/Hightower/Jenkins and Moore. Use what we have left to add Potter as a backup T and some BPAs. In FA sign Nicks and Myers with a view to cutting Brown so only one big contract added to a much better (with teething troubles) OL.

Moore would be fine with an OL of Williams/Nicks/Myers/Decastro/Adams. We'd be stacked for depth inside too. D gets Neild with an off season of growth to go with a year of experience, Jarvis Jenkins back, Hightower to add to Fletcher/Riley in the middle and Janoris Jenkins to add to our CBs.

Shanny wouldn't dare

[darrelgreenie]

I think Bell being put in the game in redzone situations is cause for alarm. I don't care how big the bruiser is you don't bench a star QB in the red zone for a more limited option unless the coach feels more comfortable with the ball in someone else's hands. Not saying Landry is a bust because of this but it should make the scouts look closer.

When a coach has a redzone package as effective as Bell it only makes sense to use it.

[Destino]

When a coach has a redzone package as effective as Bell it only makes sense to use it.

Are you saying that other teams can't line up a fullback under center? He's 1/4 8yards 0TD passing this season. A fullback could do that. He hasn't thrown a pick in the redzone but perhaps it's just not his best area.

QBR Inside the Opponents 19

Robert Griffin 225.9

Andrew Luck 219.1

Ryan Tannehill 215.4

Matt Barkley 194.6

Landry Jones 165.8

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Are you saying that other teams can't line up a fullback under center? He's 1/4 8yards 0TD passing this season. A fullback could do that.

Why change what's so effective for you? When OU goes with the two FB's and the QB who's built like a big ass FB running at you, it's virtually impossible to stop, as their success in that package has shown this year.

It's no reflection on Landry in the red-zone. who's thrown some 92 TD's through his 3 yr OU career. It's just a highly effective weapon that the Sooners have at their disposal.

Hail.

[MrSilverMaC]

Does the success that Griffin's backup has has tonight point to his success being more of a great system rather than player scenario or is Baylor's backup just that good?

[GibbsFactor]

Does the success that Griffin's backup has has tonight point to his success being more of a great system rather than player scenario or is Baylor's backup just that good?

That and durability questions must be addressed before I'd endorse him.

[MrSilverMaC]

That and durability questions must be addressed before I'd endorse him.

I openly admit I didn't see the game, only looked at the stats so I don't know what the backup looked like. I only state that as I started reading the Griffin thread after I posted the last time and saw some of his supporters get very defensive over someone raising the very question I did. I saw someone state that TT defense is horrid as a means to explain the backups success which is ridiculous considering they both played against the same D.

But I agree with your thoughts. His durability (not because of his injury history but more due to playing style and size) has been a point of discussion and I think that there are very valid questions about that as well as QBs coming out of spread offenses and their ability to transition to the NFL. Griffin has talent and outshines Barkley (whom I think of as his chief competitor for draft position) in certain areas, but in my mind there are some very good reasons you would take a QB who you know operates well in a pro-style offense over a comparable qb who plays in a spread O.

[IrepDC]

Does the success that Griffin's backup has has tonight point to his success being more of a great system rather than player scenario or is Baylor's backup just that good?

The way the stats were acquired tell the story. Example: Griffin throws deep in the first half hitting his WR in stride for a TD. The backup throws deep and underthrows the WR but he makes a great play jumping over the defender for the TD in the second half. Both long TDs, both show up the same on the stat sheet, but the throws were much different. Yes the system created that one on one matchup deep, but it got there differently from each QB.

[Newera]

I openly admit I didn't see the game, only looked at the stats so I don't know what the backup looked like. I only state that as I started reading the Griffin thread after I posted the last time and saw some of his supporters get very defensive over someone raising the very question I did. I saw someone state that TT defense is horrid as a means to explain the backups success which is ridiculous considering they both played against the same D.

But I agree with your thoughts. His durability (not because of his injury history but more due to playing style and size) has been a point of discussion and I think that there are very valid questions about that as well as QBs coming out of spread offenses and their ability to transition to the NFL. Griffin has talent and outshines Barkley (whom I think of as his chief competitor for draft position) in certain areas, but in my mind there are some very good reasons you would take a QB who you know operates well in a pro-style offense over a comparable qb who plays in a spread O.

That's going to be the question for Mike and Kyle. I think they may go conservative. After the McNabb and Beck fiascos.

[Jethrodsp]

I have seen Luck play more than a few complete games now and I have to say, Phil Simms has a point.

He certainly moves well, has a lot of athletic ability, and is tremendous at the line of scrimmage with protections and audibles; but his arm strength looks like a question mark to me. This has struck me before, and tonight there were a couple stick throws that he could have made to move the chains that he just didnt get enough zip on. It looks like he tries to ease some throws in, like deep outs and short slants, that in the NFL a quarterback has to be able to 'crease' in there (as Simms says it).

I know we are not discussing Luck in here as he seems to be the consensus number one, but I have to say I think his hype has outgrown his talent.

[MrSilverMaC]

The way the stats were acquired tell the story. Example: Griffin throws deep in the first half hitting his WR in stride for a TD. The backup throws deep and underthrows the WR but he makes a great play jumping over the defender for the TD in the second half. Both long TDs, both show up the same on the stat sheet, but the throws were much different. Yes the system created that one on one matchup deep, but it got there differently from each QB.

In that case the stats DON'T tell the story because the stats don't say a ball is under thrown but completed, it just says complete. If the stats tell the story then Florence was the better QB tonight with two TD passes. But having not watched the game is what led me to ask the question. Part of your post helps because obviously I couldn't tell if the ball was well placed, or to a wide open receiver, or a screen pass that the receiver did the bulk of the work on.

The second half of your reply though is exactly why you will see the questions you do regarding him.

If a qb whom you don't think is very good is able to pile up stats because the offense allows him to do so then you get to the heart of why people are wary of spread O QBs. Especially when said QB does it with the exact same team against the exact same defense. It's an even more magnified question in my mind when you take into account Griffin's athleticism which I will assume (unless told otherwise having not seen the game or Florence) Florence doesn't have. If Florence doesn't have the ability to make the D pay when running the D should have been able to play the pass more efficiently without having to worry about getting gashed on the ground and yet Florence threw for more yards, a higher average, and more td's than Griffin with the same amount of time played against the same defense with the same players on O.

My question is not to bash Griffin, my question was simply to be more well informed for when I form my final opinion (which is worthless since I have no input with the team on who to draft.)

[MrSilverMaC]

That's going to be the question for Mike and Kyle. I think they may go conservative. After the McNabb and Beck fiascos.

I think the lesson learned with McNabb and Beck is not to sacrifice accuracy for mobility and in Beck's case a qb who is also afraid or too unaware of open receivers to take deep shots. I think the lesson with Rex is to get a QB with a big enough arm to make the throws needed with a good head on his shoulders. The small amount I have watched Griffin accuracy doesn't seem to be an issue. My question on him and I am assuming on NFL scouts minds is his decision making ability when the coverage is better and the pressure is more effective and consistent.

[IrepDC]

In that case the stats DON'T tell the story because the stats don't say a ball is under thrown but completed, it just says complete. If the stats tell the story then Florence was the better QB tonight with two TD passes. But having not watched the game is what led me to ask the question. Part of your post helps because obviously I couldn't tell if the ball was well placed, or to a wide open receiver, or a screen pass that the receiver did the bulk of the work on.

The second half of your reply though is exactly why you will see the questions you do regarding him.

If a qb whom you don't think is very good is able to pile up stats because the offense allows him to do so then you get to the heart of why people are wary of spread O QBs. Especially when said QB does it with the exact same team against the exact same defense. It's an even more magnified question in my mind when you take into account Griffin's athleticism which I will assume (unless told otherwise having not seen the game or Florence) Florence doesn't have. If Florence doesn't have the ability to make the D pay when running the D should have been able to play the pass more efficiently without having to worry about getting gashed on the ground and yet Florence threw for more yards, a higher average, and more td's than Griffin with the same amount of time played against the same defense with the same players on O.

My question is not to bash Griffin, my question was simply to be more well informed for when I form my final opinion (which is worthless since I have no input with the team on who to draft.)

Yeah that's why I said that the way the stats were acquired tell the story, and went on to give examples from the game. I don't see how the system creating matchups would discredit Griffin unless you don't think that's what Kyle does in his system. Any system creates matchups. Every QB doesn't have the arm to take advantage. If you watch Griffin play, you'll see that he has the talent to capitalize on those matchups. So when Kyle isolates Armstrong on that deep post, or singles up Hankerson on that 15 yard comeback, Griffin can get the ball to them. Those are the kind of throws he makes on a weekly basis. That translates to any system.

How his backup did is not as relevant when you look at it from that stand point. For the record, no, Florence didn't look as good as RGIII, but even if he did, so what. He could be a good QB too. I understand what you're hinting at about the system, but I don't think that's the case.

[hail2theskins3]

I guess no one else is watching Barkley tear it up against UCLA right now?

34/41 414yards 6TDs

[Newera]

I guess no one else is watching Barkley tear it up against UCLA right now?

34/41 414yards 6TDs

He trying to get in the Heisman hunt, ain't he.

---------- Post added November-27th-2011 at 12:59 AM ----------

Seattle game could be the Barkley Bowl! LOL

---------- Post added November-27th-2011 at 01:07 AM ----------

Barkley still playing with a couple minutes left. He's coming out.

[Dave25]

I guess no one else is watching Barkley tear it up against UCLA right now?

34/41 414yards 6TDs

I am! I may be in the minority but I'm all in for Barkley the guy is a stud and all ready looks good in burgundy and gold

---------- Post added November-27th-2011 at 01:19 AM ----------

Also I think RG3 may end up being a bust plus it seems people here are overrating him most mock drafts I've seen online have him in the 10-15 range not top 3-5

[MrSilverMaC]

I understand what you're hinting at about the system, but I don't think that's the case.

My questions are completely tied to the system and how Griffin runs it and nothing else. I don't question his arm strength to get the throw there. I don't question his accuracy either short or deep. The question is all about his ability to handle the pressure and ability to make reads more quickly while still making the proper one. Hitting a wr in stride for a 70 td when he was 10 yards beyond any defender is different than being able to see that 1-2 yard separation that will occur in a route before it happens because the Ravens are bringing a zone blitz on 3rd and 5.

Are his stats because he usually makes the right read and knows who will be open or is it his system that also allows his backup to have better stats?

Like I said, we probably won't get a really good picture of how he will look in a pro-offense until the combine and his pro-day. He looks good but there are questions.