The Official(ish) 2012 Quarterback Prospect Thread

[TK]

Ryan Tannehill is playing over on ESPN right now...

I peeked for a series. Wasn't impressed & switched back to the HarBowl.

---------- Post added November-24th-2011 at 10:41 PM ----------

you dont say.... was going to let that marinate for awhile.

Oh it's still marinating because I haven't put out the explanation.

Wanted to see if anyone could dig it up in research. So far they haven't.

[Newera]

Tannenhill not playing well for A&M. Still has time to redeem himself.

[SkinsHokieFan]

[/color]

Oh it's still marinating because I haven't put out the explanation.

Wanted to see if anyone could dig it up in research. So far they haven't.

Its 2 fold

1) Luck has one of the best o-line's in the nation and has had that luxury for 3 seasons now. How is he going to react to less then optimal situations and a messy pocket in the NFl?

2) Jim Harbaugh had Josh Johnson playing well and has turned Alex Smith into a serviceable QB. Is it the athlete or the system?

I just hope more and more doubt creeps up and he slips to us

[Rufus T Firefly]

Tannenhill not playing well for A&M.

Not at all.

[TK]

SHF is on the right right track. Gotta connect the Leaf dots to it as well.

[SkinsHokieFan]

SHF is on the right right track. Gotta connect the Leaf dots to it as well.

I am having one hell of a hard time finding the dots unless Luck is being coached by the same guys Leaf was.

There is the PAC 10/PAC 12 connection. Stats wise, attitude wise, intelligence wise, college accuracy wise, it isn't close

However they did both play in the PAC 10

[kwitt]

Wow Tannehill's girlfriend is smokin hot!!

[KCClybun]

Wow Tannehill's girlfriend is smokin hot!!

That's like, the best thing that can be said for my boy Tannehill tonight...

[Lavarleap56]

Its 2 fold

1) Luck has one of the best o-line's in the nation and has had that luxury for 3 seasons now. How is he going to react to less then optimal situations and a messy pocket in the NFl?

2) Jim Harbaugh had Josh Johnson playing well and has turned Alex Smith into a serviceable QB. Is it the athlete or the system?

I just hope more and more doubt creeps up and he slips to us

Basically there are a few different scenarios in play with luck

1.Possibly too much exposure allowing people to nit pick and find holes in his game. I think its human nature to have individuals on each side of a discussion and rarely if ever have i seen 100% on one side.

2. Pac 10/12 defenses havnt exactly been the best over the past couple of seasons. Luck is putting up good numbers that are par with Manning/Leaf there last years but Luck isnt as automatic this season as he was last year. Jim has worked Alex Smith from first round bust to servicable to good qb in a short amount of time and people are taking notice and has brought the microscope out on luck and there is stuff to be found.

[Ghost of]

That's like, the best thing that can be said for my boy Tannehill tonight...

She's good looking but something about her look leaves me a little cold.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Basically there are a few different scenarios in play with luck

1.Possibly too much exposure allowing people to nit pick and find holes in his game. I think its human nature to have individuals on each side of a discussion and rarely if ever have i seen 100% on one side.

2. Pac 10/12 defenses havnt exactly been the best over the past couple of seasons. Luck is putting up good numbers that are par with Manning/Leaf there last years but Luck isnt as automatic this season as he was last year. Jim has worked Alex Smith from first round bust to servicable to good qb in a short amount of time and people are taking notice and has brought the microscope out on luck and there is stuff to be found.

Agree with most of it, except the numbers

Leaf was 227 of 410 for a 55.4% completion percentage, 3968 yards, 34 TDs and 11 INTs. Yards per attempt were 9.7

Manning was 287 of 447 for a 60.2% completion percentage, 3819 yards, 36 TDs and 11 INTs. Yards per attempt 8.0

Luck this year is 241 of 343 for a 70.3% completion perctange (he was 70.7% last year) 31 TDs and 8 INTs for an 8.7 yards per attempt.

That completion percentage his sophomore and junior seasons blows away Leaf and Manning.

Again, I agree with the rest. Jim Harbaugh, Pac 10/12 defenses, the system that Stanford runs, that extremely clean pocket, I really hope the Colts start asking these questions more and more

[DogofWar1]

I'm pretty much for Luck, RGIII, and Barkley at this point, any of those 3 (with the understanding that getting luck will be nearly impossible) would be fine with me. I feel like Jones and Tannehill come after those 3, followed by the rest.

Tannehill just isn't experienced enough at the QB position. He has less than 20 starts at this point and could really use another season throwing passes to get the position, and his decision making, down. His 28 TDs, 14 ints doesn't impress me much either, a barely 2-1 ratio is liable to get worse, if not much worse, once he's up against NFL talent. I'd be okay with drafting him 2nd round, but no earlier, and only if we somehow don't end up with RGIII, Barkley, or Luck (and apparently the experts think Jones is a top 10 pick, so he should be gone too).

[Lavarleap56]

some people are actually starting to question if they are getting a true read on his abilities based on him changing plays and offensive sets so much at the line of scrimmage. College players are only allowed so many practice hours in a week and its impossible for them to scheme every possible set Stanford can toss at them and really thats a key to their success even if its smart its difficult to evaluate. Teams need to see how luck does when he cant find the plays/formations a defense hasnt prepared for to manipulate a defense and make to tough throws when coverage is there. I know the common answer is half the battle not running plays that dont work but in terms of the eval of him post snap it makes a differance. Lucks struggles in big games also brings into play " can he put a team on his shoulders and take them to victory over a more talented team".

For the record i think Luck will be good but im not sure if he will be a superstar just yet.

---------- Post added November-25th-2011 at 05:22 AM ----------

Agree with most of it, except the numbers

Leaf was 227 of 410 for a 55.4% completion percentage, 3968 yards, 34 TDs and 11 INTs. Yards per attempt were 9.7

Manning was 287 of 447 for a 60.2% completion percentage, 3819 yards, 36 TDs and 11 INTs. Yards per attempt 8.0

Luck this year is 241 of 343 for a 70.3% completion perctange (he was 70.7% last year) 31 TDs and 8 INTs for an 8.7 yards per attempt.

That completion percentage his sophomore and junior seasons blows away Leaf and Manning.

Again, I agree with the rest. Jim Harbaugh, Pac 10/12 defenses, the system that Stanford runs, that extremely clean pocket, I really hope the Colts start asking these questions more and more

yeah leaf didnt exactly put alot of time in learning the qb position and just relied on his arm strength. Stanford does have a extremely clean pocket and luck doesnt have to deal with alot of caos around him and Most of there talent is at the TE position which most of the time are high percentage throws. I think RG3 is the opposite of Luck in that hes probably the best passer in the draft while dealing with a unclean pocket and caos around him.

Luck and Leaf are similar because once Luck comes out the scrutiny will be huge like it was for leaf. How will Luck handle losing? All signs point to him being very mature but at this point the story of Andrew Luck is actually bigger than Andrew Luck himself and expectations are growing by the day.

[Pskins]

2. Pac 10/12 defenses havnt exactly been the best over the past couple of seasons. Luck is putting up good numbers that are par with Manning/Leaf there last years but Luck isnt as automatic this season as he was last year. Jim has worked Alex Smith from first round bust to servicable to good qb in a short amount of time and people are taking notice and has brought the microscope out on luck and there is stuff to be found.

Griffin III is the best choice and most likely to be available.

Kellen Moore from Boise State should be available as well.

Never pick SEC qbs unless their name is Manning or Newton all others should be avoided.

[MusicCitySkin]

I'm just going to throw it out there that regardless of who the Skins pick (Barkley, RGIII, Jones, or whoever), I think we should also grab Orton in the off-season. The guy is in the last year of his contract, and will probably come pretty cheap in terms of money, and won't cost us anything in draft picks. If it turns out that our franchise QB needs a year or two to get in rhythm (switching from spread offenses to pro-style, etc.) having a guy who's started could be useful.

While I don't endorse Orton as a long term solution, he's certainly an upgrade from our current guys, and having him in our back pocket in case of a rocky transition could save us a lot of trouble.

Why? At least Grossman can win a game every now and again. All any young QB could learn from Orton is how to lose and rack up garbage time stats.

I would also like to respond to claims that mobile QBs are only now transitioning into the NFL. Back when the forward pass was primarily a desperation move, QBs ran the ball fairly often. It's not a new idea, it's just taken a backseat as the passing game has evolved.

[issapunk]

What is up with all the love for Tannehil? I've watched 2-3 games and have not been impressed at all. RGIII plz.

[Gurgeh]

Why? At least Grossman can win a game every now and again. All any young QB could learn from Orton is how to lose and rack up garbage time stats.

I would also like to respond to claims that mobile QBs are only now transitioning into the NFL. Back when the forward pass was primarily a desperation move, QBs ran the ball fairly often. It's not a new idea, it's just taken a backseat as the passing game has evolved.

Not quite that far back but Randall Cunningham could certainly rack up the yards along the ground. He also showed that it shouldn't be a long-term option for any QB, because sooner or later (usually sooner) the injuries catch up with you and you aren't as mobile. At that point you had better be a good passer or it's game over.

[KCClybun]

What is up with all the love for Tannehil? I've watched 2-3 games and have not been impressed at all. RGIII plz.

It's more because you can see he has raw talent that can be refined. If he'd been playing quarterback for four years instead of two, he'd be a much more polished product. The best situation would be for him to go somewhere and sit and learn in a Carson Palmer kind of situation. Find a Jon Kitna, keep trying to play well, then let him start. Which is not the optimal situation here, as people would lose their frakking minds if we didn't start the new quarterback immediately. (Which Mike isn't going to do anyway.)

Which brings me to...

I'm just going to throw it out there that regardless of who the Skins pick (Barkley, RGIII, Jones, or whoever), I think we should also grab Orton in the off-season. The guy is in the last year of his contract, and will probably come pretty cheap in terms of money, and won't cost us anything in draft picks. If it turns out that our franchise QB needs a year or two to get in rhythm (switching from spread offenses to pro-style, etc.) having a guy who's started could be useful.

While I don't endorse Orton as a long term solution, he's certainly an upgrade from our current guys, and having him in our back pocket in case of a rocky transition could save us a lot of trouble.

1.) Orton's going to want a long term deal. He still feels he's capable of being a starter of the league, and he's not going to want to come in and be a teacher for anyone. The dude just got benched for a guy who, while an awesome person, a hard worker and great athlete, at this stage in his career can't functionally play the position of quarterback. He was repeatedly benched for Rex Grossman in Chicago. If he's going to go anywhere, he's going to try and go somewhere that gives him some sort of job security.

2.) Orton's a loser. I don't mean that in the high school sense, I mean that in the sense that he's currently a perfect 33-33 as a starting quarterback in the NFL. That is not good. He simply is not as talented as his numbers would lead you to believe. Dude's the classic Steve DeBerg type; he's just good enough to get you beat. Consistently. To the point where you'd rather have a guy who can barely throw a football that wins than a guy who can who loses all the time.

Rex, provided he's willing to resign, is a perfectly good teacher and a guy that everyone on the team likes and believes in, despite he's occasional Bad Rex ways. No need to bring in another quarterback that no one else wants, especially if our quarterback will be a starter sooner rather than later.

Not quite that far back but Randall Cunningham could certainly rack up the yards along the ground. He also showed that it shouldn't be a long-term option for any QB, because sooner or later (usually sooner) the injuries catch up with you and you aren't as mobile. At that point you had better be a good passer or it's game over.

Randall Cunningham was injured because he was running for his life behind Philly's offensive line. Granted, mobile quarterbacks have a tendency to get sacked more often, but we're talking about a guy who at one point was sacked 72 times in a season.

To put that in perspective, the most times Michael Vick has gotten sacked in a season is 46, Donovan got sacked 45 times is a season, VY has never been sacked more than 30 times. And even while getting beaten to a friggin' pulp, Cunningham still put up some impressive stats as a passer.

There's running because you want (which is what Vick and McNabb did for large portions of their career), and then there's running because you have to (which is what Randall Cunningham did). The impressive thing about RGIII is that he's always looking to throw before he takes off. He's a passer first, a runner second.

You can't be scared of mobile quarterbacks. You just have to find that ones who are willing to do more than just use their legs for everything.

[darrelgreenie]

Happy Thanks Giving everyone.

Anyone watching Tyler Wilson today that can give updates?

Stuck at work w/o ESPN3

[Gurgeh]

Randall Cunningham was injured because he was running for his life behind Philly's offensive line. Granted, mobile quarterbacks have a tendency to get sacked more often, but we're talking about a guy who at one point was sacked 72 times in a season.

To put that in perspective, the most times Michael Vick has gotten sacked in a season is 46, Donovan got sacked 45 times is a season, VY has never been sacked more than 30 times. And even while getting beaten to a friggin' pulp, Cunningham still put up some impressive stats as a passer.

There's running because you want (which is what Vick and McNabb did for large portions of their career), and then there's running because you have to (which is what Randall Cunningham did). The impressive thing about RGIII is that he's always looking to throw before he takes off. He's a passer first, a runner second.

You can't be scared of mobile quarterbacks. You just have to find that ones who are willing to do more than just use their legs for everything.

That's exactly what I'd want in a QB, someone who will stay and pass and only run when they have to - or on designed plays by the goalline. I'm on board with RGIII because I can see that in him.

The point with Cunningham was that it doesn't really matter why the QB runs - whether he's fleeing pursuit or whether on purpose - it's the amount of times he does it. If he does it often enough then he will get hurt. Look at Vick and how many games he misses. Cunningham was a good passer so when he couldn't make the runs any more he was more than up to the job of throwing it. Whoever we take as QB has to be able to pass and pass well, because no matter how good his legs are out of college, after a few years in the NFL they'll be beat up.

Off topic, but did Randall Cunnungham really rack up 940 yards in a season evading sacks? He'd get over 1,000 behind our line

[Ghost of]

Randall Cunningham was injured because he was running for his life behind Philly's offensive line. Granted, mobile quarterbacks have a tendency to get sacked more often, but we're talking about a guy who at one point was sacked 72 times in a season.

And even while getting beaten to a friggin' pulp, Cunningham still put up some impressive stats as a passer.

To put it another way, Randall was a rookie in 1985, was fairly raw until he finally took over in 1987 and emerged as a really, really good player in 1988. He never had a reliable running game (a NECESSITY back in those days) or competent offensive line. He got hurt IN the pocket by Bryce Paup (what a name to inflict a knee-popping injury on someone) not even while running. He may have other injuries outside of the pocket but that may have just been his inability to full recover from the 1991 injury. It wasn't until he came back to football with the Vikes that he had a good team around him and by that point, he was just a pocket passer and then he swiftly declined for good.

Looking back, as someone who lived in Philly at the time, he was really underappreciated and I think it's still a little sad that he got hurt that way in 1991 because it really led to a string of injuries that derailed his career until his brief shining moment with Minnesota.

He had a long windup throw and wasn't terribly accurate until later, but he had some marvelous abilities and he was an incredibly graceful athlete. Watching Randall play was a real treat. Vick is spectacular but there's a missing element of grace there.

[Dukes and Skins]

Happy Thanks Giving everyone.

Anyone watching Tyler Wilson today that can give updates?

Stuck at work w/o ESPN3

Been watching off and on. Impressed by his toughness but his mechanics are ehh to me. Has a bit of a wind up I've noticed and gets sloppy with his footwork in the pocket

[MusicCitySkin]

Not quite that far back but Randall Cunningham could certainly rack up the yards along the ground. He also showed that it shouldn't be a long-term option for any QB, because sooner or later (usually sooner) the injuries catch up with you and you aren't as mobile. At that point you had better be a good passer or it's game over.

You can go back much farther than Cunningham with a man named Fran Tarkenton, who amassed 3674 rushing yards and 32 rushing TDs in his career. Not bad for someone drafted in '61.

[Skins3000]

Its 2 fold

1) Luck has one of the best o-line's in the nation and has had that luxury for 3 seasons now. How is he going to react to less then optimal situations and a messy pocket in the NFl?

2) Jim Harbaugh had Josh Johnson playing well and has turned Alex Smith into a serviceable QB. Is it the athlete or the system?

I just hope more and more doubt creeps up and he slips to us

I made this point in the Godawful RGIII thread but I think I would stick with RGIII because he is battle tested.

[BKSkinsFan]

Had to go for RG3, other than Luck he's got the most raw talent IMO. I feel like someone like Barkley can only be successful with a great oline. RG3 has the mobility and athleticism to be productive with an average to good oline.