Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 lol at anyone dumb enough to think the oline matters to the degree it used to. roethlisburger and rodgers get sacked 40 times a year behind mediocre to porous olines in route to going 12-4 and winning superbowls. meanwhile teams like cleveland have dominating olines and cant win 5 games. hilarity at its finest. our oline is decent, it can be much better. however our QB situation is a nightmare. and anyone that mentions heath shuler as a reason to not draft a QB needs to stop posting...like forever. guys drafted 20 years ago still being used as a point of reference is just retarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Yeah, keep drafting Heath Shuler, Jason Cambell etc.... This franshise doomed itself to years of mediocroty at QB when they let Trent Green get away. Do you even realize how flawed this thought process is? By your logic, no team that has anything less than a top tier OL should ever pick a QB high in the draft. Do you have any idea how many teams would be missing their star QBs if they followed that playbook? Also...Heath Shuler? Really? That was 17 years ago. "Well, we drafted a QB high almost 2 decades ago and he was a bust so that means we shouldn't ever do it again". Also, Campbell was a late 1st round pick who was taken too high as he was mostly graded to be maybe a 2nd rounder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#98QBKiller Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Do you even realize how flawed this thought process is? By your logic, no team that has anything less than a top tier OL should ever pick a QB high in the draft. Do you have any idea how many teams would be missing their star QBs if they followed that playbook? Also...Heath Shuler? Really? That was 17 years ago. "Well, we drafted a QB high almost 2 decades ago and he was a bust so that means we shouldn't ever do it again". Also, Campbell was a late 1st round pick who was taken too high as he was mostly graded to be maybe a 2nd rounder. Probably just some old school fan that's stuck in the nostalgia of the Hogs and still thinks that you can win in today's NFL with a great OL and just random pieces at QB. A serviceable OL + a great QB > a great OL and a scrub QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWinSkins83 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 lol at anyone dumb enough to think the oline matters to the degree it used to.roethlisburger and rodgers get sacked 40 times a year behind mediocre to porous olines in route to going 12-4 and winning superbowls. meanwhile teams like cleveland have dominating olines and cant win 5 games. hilarity at its finest. our oline is decent, it can be much better. however our QB situation is a nightmare. and anyone that mentions heath shuler as a reason to not draft a QB needs to stop posting...like forever. guys drafted 20 years ago still being used as a point of reference is just retarded. Thank you. Now this should keep some of these draft oline n the 1st. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Probably just some old school fan that's stuck in the nostalgia of the Hogs and still thinks that you can win in today's NFL with a great OL and just random pieces at QB. A serviceable OL + a great QB > a great OL and a scrub QB. i also find it laughable that people just ignore stats about it. you have guys like rodgers and big ben that are sacked constantly and under duress, that win tons of games, have rings, and kill it constantly and then you have teams with franchise left tackles and great olines with good rushing attacks that can barely make it past the first round of the playoffs due to mediocre QB play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laron Burgundy Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 i also find it laughable that people just ignore stats about it. you have guys like rodgers and big ben that are sacked constantly and under duress, that win tons of games, have rings, and kill it constantly and then you have teams with franchise left tackles and great olines with good rushing attacks that can barely make it past the first round of the playoffs due to mediocre QB play. To be fair, Ben's line is better than its sack numbers. Ben holds the ball for an eternity to try to make a play. I'm not sure about rodgers though. Of course, those in favor of drafting a qb seem to assume every qb has the potential to become Rodgers or Ben, when truth be told most are destined to be a Sanchez or Campbell, guys who will fail horribly behind bad lines but can give you winning seasons if they get good protection. The only qb's that I see with the potential to really carry their team is Luck and Griffin, with that being the case I really don't see an issue with drafting o-line (or even bpa) 1st and qb in the 2nd, because Barkley/Jones/Tannehill are probably closer to Weeden/Foles/Moore than they are to Luck or Griffin. It's all about opportunity costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek1973 Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I am with you Buck812. RG3 for me also. Mobility, great arm,mental toughness and has been a proven winner on a team that has an average OL compared to the one that Jones has. Footwork problems for RG3 to be sure but for me that is one tendency that can be fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFanRicky Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I don't know...A lot of people on this board were comparing Jevan Snead to Peyton Manning and Tom Brady a short time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 To be fair, Ben's line is better than its sack numbers. Ben holds the ball for an eternity to try to make a play. I'm not sure about rodgers though. Rodgers line is MUCH better than a couple of years ago but he was still making lots of plays and throwing for tons of yards back then. Ben's line may have improved by now but that SB between the Cards and Steelers featured two of the worst offensive lines I've seen get that far. Especially that year, the Steelers offensive line was universally regarded (do a search) as being fairly putrid. One need only look at the Cards immediately after Warner's departure to get a sense of how good that line really was (or wasn't.) But you are correct that Ben holds the ball forever, but some of that criticism was based on the run blocking too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jflow78 Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 RG3 looked good against OU, but OU let recievers run wide open deep a few times, for whatever reason. And RG3 did miss a couple of them. Reminds me of Vince Young in college. I've been more impressed with Barkley, I'm with others on the whole USC QB thing, but the USC/Stanford game was impressive. Jones has alot of potential, I thought he was impressive against Baylor with all the injuries OU has. Ideally maybe the RGIII hype will push him to the #1 spot and Andrew Lucks falls. Doubtful, but anything is possible The only thing I'd add is that RGIII no time because his OL was getting destroyed over and over again. He had around 2 seconds after the snap to get rid of the ball every time. Jones had as much time as he wanted on nearly every passing play, and he didn't do much to impress me. I didn't think he was awful, but with the team that's around him, and how much better his OL was compared to Baylor's DL/LBers he should have had a much better game, IMO. It was kind of a disappointing game because I didn't get a chance to see RGIII go through his progressions at all, and like I said, Jones didn't impress me. I still need to sit down and watch the USC/Stanford game though. Hopefully it doesn't disappoint, both QBs get a chance to throw the ball, and at least one of them really takes over the game. I've thought about RGIII getting hyped up enough, especially after the combine, to possibly steal the #1 spot. I think it will get more interesting as we get closer to the draft. ---------- Post added November-25th-2011 at 08:19 PM ---------- RGIII. Why he was not on your list of QB's to pick from is beyond me. My guess is that, currently, Jones and Barkley are seen as more similar QBs and are really in competition with each other. Luck has been the #1 guy and seems "untouchable" to most media and fans so everyone else is fighting for 2nd, but I think Jones and Barkley are the easiest to compare since they are so similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsoe Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 i also find it laughable that people just ignore stats about it. you have guys like rodgers and big ben that are sacked constantly and under duress, that win tons of games, have rings, and kill it constantly and then you have teams with franchise left tackles and great olines with good rushing attacks that can barely make it past the first round of the playoffs due to mediocre QB play. Yea... This is not even accurate. Pittsburgh has a great Oline that consistently provides excellent run support. Ben holds the ball too long probably due to their choice of heavy set formations with simple routes at wide out. Packers also have a great running scheme that is under utilized because they pretty much don't even need it. Rodgers is also everything that the Shanahans thought Beck would be with the decimated oline, a mobile qb who could escape some pressure and make some plays. I won't pretend to know the inner workings of an NFL offense, but our oline does not compare to theirs yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KokoMike Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 On the ESPN website today, identifying the Redskins as the worst QB situation, with this combination: how bad the current QB situation is, whether there is a sense of a plan in place, and whether the draft can help: "Not only do the Redskins not have a long-term solution at the position in either Rex Grossman or John Beck, they've won enough to be well out of the Andrew Luck race. Washington could be better served trying to deal for a quarterback, or getting into position for a guy like Matt Barkley or Landry Jones. But there's a problem: If you think the Skins have a roster that's ready to compete for a playoff position in 2012 -- and I certainly think they could -- do you really want a rookie in there? I wonder if the Redskins are a team that looks at a trade for a current starter, or targets a guy who might be ready to take over, such as Matt Flynn or Brian Hoyer. Either way, this is a team that is in desperate need of a solution." Shanahan said he could win with either Beck and Grossman. I don't know what season he was talking about. Not this one. I just wish Shanahan had a plan for the QB position at this point in his second losing season. If he does, I would love the hear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCClybun Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 Shanahan said he could win with either Beck and Grossman. I don't know what season he was talking about. Not this one. I just wish Shanahan had a plan for the QB position at this point in his second losing season. If he does, I would love the hear it. Why would Mike, who notoriously holds his cards close to his chest, reveal anything about the draft or free agency months before it's set to begin? Also, Mel Kiper is talking out of his butt, but that's nothing new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 Yea... This is not even accurate. Pittsburgh has a great Oline that consistently provides excellent run support. Maybe this year but everyone from scouts on to commentators who actually broke down film shared the consensus view (not based on sack #s but actual tape and run production) that Pittsburgh's offensive line was a hot mess when they went to the SB a couple years ago vs. Arizona. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsoe Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 Maybe this year but everyone from scouts on to commentators who actually broke down film shared the consensus view (not based on sack #s but actual tape and run production) that Pittsburgh's offensive line was a hot mess when they went to the SB a couple years ago vs. Arizona. That may be true, but the point to be made is that those QB's are notorious for extending plays and had play action going for them. In terms of the Steelers, didn't they fare pretty well when Batch filled in for them? There is no denying that this team needs an upgrade at oline and QB. Given a solid run game, a talented arm with some smart decision making can mask mediocre pass blocking. This line hasn't proved it can provide either of those consistently yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LApunkrocker72 Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 If Matt Barkley is available, the Redskins should draft him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrepDC Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Barkley shouldn't even be in the conversation with Jones in my opinion. He's separated himself from that tier of QB's. He's chasing after Luck now. He might not catch him, but that's the level he seems to be playing at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJ Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Barkley shouldn't even be in the conversation with Jones in my opinion. He's separated himself from that tier of QB's. He's chasing after Luck now. He might not catch him, but that's the level he seems to be playing at. Hopefully we are in position to draft him too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scruffylookin Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 I'm having this fear that Barkley will return to USC. Unless my family were in financial trouble, I know I would. Being the starting QB at Southern Cal, coming off probation and being a national champion favorite. I'd stay and enjoy that. But right now it does appear the QBs have indeed separated. It's now Luck, Barkley and RG3. Jones has fallen to the next tier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laron Burgundy Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 I'm having this fear that Barkley will return to USC. Unless my family were in financial trouble, I know I would. Being the starting QB at Southern Cal, coming off probation and being a national champion favorite. I'd stay and enjoy that. But right now it does appear the QBs have indeed separated. It's now Luck, Barkley and RG3. Jones has fallen to the next tier. He SHOULD return imo. I think the offseason will be very unkind to him due to his dink-and-dunk offense (USC was definitely different under Carroll). He needs another year to really show he has top tier accuracy. If Kalil returns then that is bar none the best offense in college football, and it's not like their defense is shabby. Lee as a sophomore and Woods as a junior? Unbelievable talent at wr. I'm starting to think Lee is even the better prospect, as is I'd say they are two of the top 5 receivers in college. Plus after Sanchez leaving USC early I just don't like that attitude. It seems really me-first when you play for a national contender like USC but leave before you even have a chance to lead them to a bcs championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveakl Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 RGIII and Barkley. One is better then 50 odds to stay in school. The other is prob coming out unless the team pulls a UNC basketball move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek1973 Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Don't know who will stay but I say with the injury to RGIII this week it might push him to declare. I mean wouldn't you get scared of getting hurt for a school that really doesn't have a chance in hell for a National title unlike USC? And this leads me to the next point. Both Jones and Barkley are playing on much better teams, especially much better OLs. So for me RGIII stands out, hell even Luck in Stafford has a much better OL than RGIII has. To do what he has done over and over behind that line is very impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 What do people look at when they evaluate QBs? Skillset or production? Which carries more weight? Are people comparing the prospects to each other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Yea... This is not even accurate. Pittsburgh has a great Oline that consistently provides excellent run support. Ben holds the ball too long probably due to their choice of heavy set formations with simple routes at wide out. Packers also have a great running scheme that is under utilized because they pretty much don't even need it. Rodgers is also everything that the Shanahans thought Beck would be with the decimated oline, a mobile qb who could escape some pressure and make some plays.I won't pretend to know the inner workings of an NFL offense, but our oline does not compare to theirs yet. LOL, spare me. not a sane person in the universe would claim that both of these teams have great to even pretty good olines. just check out who has been sacked the most over the last 3 season, rodgers and big ben are leaders in that. our oline is nowhere near the problem that our fanbase makes it out to be. and i blame the hogs for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
War Paint Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 If it came down to Barkley and RG3, I'm not sure which one I would pick. I like them both. I'll probably lean to Barkley just because I fear that RG3 may miss some games due to injury, but I'll be happy with either one. I really hope they enter the draft. USC fans were chanting "one more year" to Barkely. I hope he ignores them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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