Barkley or Jones? You decide...

[End2round2sanders]

OMG Barkley.. I produce a sports talk show in So-cal and Barkley is so accessible to the media and such a good interview, when you hear him speak you know hes a leader, but has personality. I hope we get the opportunity to get him.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Did he "bail" or did he slide around the pocket to by time? No different than I see Rodgers do, or Cutler do, or Romo sits to pee do to us today. It's not like he just took off and ran; he was looking to throw. All 3 of those QBs do the same thing often to make up for poor OL play which Baylor has a lot of. Would you consider those QBs to have happy feet?

na he bailed dude. this wasnt sliding around and buying time. it seemed like he'd look downfield a little, slide to the left, and bail. he had 18 rushing attempts vs 34 passing attempts. thats essentially a 2:1 pass:run ratio, and again, i watched a few of his drives (again i havent dissected hours of his play) and thats what i saw. from the few drives i saw of barkley and jones i saw much more pocket passer types that stand in there, read the defense, and throw quickly (and i liked barkley a lot more than jones).

rodgers is so ridiculous at dissecting a defense and getting whatever he wants from them he shouldnt be compared to any college QB just cause he can scramble. luck can scramble too. and cutler is not the most mobile guy, lets not get carried away here.

[KCClybun]

Fine. Can't go on forever with you. RG3 will be a decent QB that will take the team that drafts him nowhere near a SB. Weve seen this story a dozen times in the NFL. He is nothing like the Mannings, the Bradys, the Rotheleisburgers, the Rogers who win SBs, or the Rivers or Matty Ices that have a chance. He is of the mold of Vick, VY, Randall Cunnimgham and the other "just not good enough QBs" that have been suckering teams into thinking that an Athlete that can throw a football really can lead a team to a SB. Learn from it.

Gimme Landry Jones or Matt Barkley any day in the NFL.

See, the funny thing about your post is that I JUST posted a bunch of stats proving that Robert Griffin III is not an "athlete QB".

Michael Vick; 2 years as a starter in college; 3,074 yards passing, 20 touchdowns passes, 11 interceptions, 1202 yards rushing, 16 touchdowns, career completion percentage 56.1

Vince Young: 3 years as a starter; 6040 yards passing, 44 touchdown passes, 28 interceptions, 3127 yards rushing, 37 rushing touchdowns, career completion percentage 61.8

Donovan McNabb: 4 years as a starter; 8389 yards passing, 77 touchdown passes, 26 interceptions, 1561 yards rushing, 19 rushing touchdowns, career completion percentage 58.1

Robert Griffin III: 4 years as a starter (injured one year, stats thus far): 9645 yards passing, 74 touchdowns, 16 interceptions, 2108 yards rushing, 28 rushing touchdowns, career completion percentage 66.2

By the time Robert Griffin comes out, his career passing numbers will be much closer to the numbers Big Ben, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, and his passing numbers will eclipse Matt Ryan's and FAR outclass Tom Brady's college stats.

Or, in other terms, your argument is complete and utter bull****, sir. There's reasons to be worried about RGIII, but "being an athlete that can throw the football" isn't one of them.

You fail.

[IrepDC]

na he bailed dude. this wasnt sliding around and buying time. it seemed like he'd look downfield a little, slide to the left, and bail. he had 18 rushing attempts vs 34 passing attempts. thats essentially a 2:1 pass:run ratio, and again, i watched a few of his drives (again i havent dissected hours of his play) and thats what i saw. from the few drives i saw of barkley and jones i saw much more pocket passer types that stand in there, read the defense, and throw quickly (and i liked barkley a lot more than jones).

rodgers is so ridiculous at dissecting a defense and getting whatever he wants from them he shouldnt be compared to any college QB just cause he can scramble. luck can scramble too. and cutler is not the most mobile guy, lets not get carried away here.

If you saw the first qtr, he stood in the pocket and got blasted every snap. I don't see why you'd discredit him for moving around. And I brought up Cutler and Rodgers because when their OLs were struggling they would do the same thing- Rodgers more likely to run.

But as I said, his OL was clearlt outmatched against OU so him moving in the pocket and running when it was there seemed appropriate. Definitely don't get how that's a fault.

[KCClybun]

na he bailed dude. this wasnt sliding around and buying time. it seemed like he'd look downfield a little, slide to the left, and bail. he had 18 rushing attempts vs 34 passing attempts. thats essentially a 2:1 pass:run ratio, and again, i watched a few of his drives (again i havent dissected hours of his play) and thats what i saw. from the few drives i saw of barkley and jones i saw much more pocket passer types that stand in there, read the defense, and throw quickly (and i liked barkley a lot more than jones).

rodgers is so ridiculous at dissecting a defense and getting whatever he wants from them he shouldnt be compared to any college QB just cause he can scramble. luck can scramble too. and cutler is not the most mobile guy, lets not get carried away here.

From what I watch, he usually hangs in the pocket as long as possible before he bails. The problem is, the pocket's not clean a lot, so I think he does a lot of scrambling or sliding around, trying to find passing windows. He does have some happy feet in the pocket sometimes, but I see him hang in there and try to make throws from the pocket. He'll go through his progressions, then he'll leave the pocket and still look for a way to pass, and THEN he runs.

His footwork could be better sometimes, I'll agree, but I think it's a correctable. Especially versus Oklahoma, they weren't buying him a whole lot of time until, what, the second half? And you also have to take into account that some of those quarterback runs are called runs, not necessarily him bailing out of the pocket and scrambling around.

[IrepDC]

from the few drives i saw of barkley and jones i saw much more pocket passer types that stand in there, read the defense, and throw quickly (and i liked barkley a lot more than jones).

Also I think this is an unfair comparison because the OLs Jones and Barkley play behind are WORLDS better than Baylor's. You'd have to look at how each of them react to the pressure Griffin faces on every other snap to get an accurate comparison.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

If you saw the first qtr, he stood in the pocket and got blasted every snap. I don't see why you'd discredit him for moving around. And I brought up Cutler and Rodgers because when their OLs were struggling they would do the same thing- Rodgers more likely to run.

But as I said, his OL was clearlt outmatched against OU so him moving in the pocket and running when it was there seemed appropriate. Definitely don't get how that's a fault.

that kind of tendency scares me at the NFL level. if hes used to his oline being poor than he could come to the NFL and get those happy feet, and i do not want that. personally i dont really care if our QB is mobile. id be fine with a peyton manning statue that crumbled at any site of pressure, as long as he was laser accurate, intelligent, and could pick apart a defense all day long. people are getting way too excited about the running QB thing with vick and now cam newton that it seems to be focused on way too much IMO.

if RG3 was coming from a pro style offense like barkley is id feel a lot more comfortable about taking a chance on him, however he doesnt. and because i dont really care about the mobility aspect like a lot of people do, im gonna be apprehensive about the guy until he proves it at the NFL level.

[IrepDC]

that kind of tendency scares me at the NFL level. if hes used to his oline being poor than he could come to the NFL and get those happy feet, and i do not want that. personally i dont really care if our QB is mobile. id be fine with a peyton manning statue that crumbled at any site of pressure, as long as he was laser accurate, intelligent, and could pick apart a defense all day long. people are getting way too excited about the running QB thing with vick and now cam newton that it seems to be focused on way too much IMO.

if RG3 was coming from a pro style offense like barkley is id feel a lot more comfortable about taking a chance on him, however he doesnt. and because i dont really care about the mobility aspect like a lot of people do, im gonna be apprehensive about the guy until he proves it at the NFL level.

What you call happy feet, I call buying time. Romo sits to pee has shown us how big that can be in the NFL twice this year. But beyond that, you should continue to check him out as strictly a passer to and ignore the running if you don't care for it. He's a great passer. Oh and as someone mentioned above, most of those 18 rushes were called since they run that read option play a lot.

I'd have no problem with Barkley though. I agree with pretty much everything positive everyone has said about him. I think some people are getting the wrong impressions about Griffin is all.

[KCClybun]

that kind of tendency scares me at the NFL level. if hes used to his oline being poor than he could come to the NFL and get those happy feet, and i do not want that. personally i dont really care if our QB is mobile. id be fine with a peyton manning statue that crumbled at any site of pressure, as long as he was laser accurate, intelligent, and could pick apart a defense all day long. people are getting way too excited about the running QB thing with vick and now cam newton that it seems to be focused on way too much IMO.

if RG3 was coming from a pro style offense like barkley is id feel a lot more comfortable about taking a chance on him, however he doesnt. and because i dont really care about the mobility aspect like a lot of people do, im gonna be apprehensive about the guy until he proves it at the NFL level.

The thing is, with more and more college offenses playing the spread, the "I'd be more comfortable if he came from a pro style offense" is going to disappear. And as our line continues to transition, the last thing I want is a statue back there. Mobility is about more than being able to rush for a lot of yards. It's about being able to slide in the pocket and make the subtle movements. That what Rodgers does so well; he doesn't run a whole bunch. He's judicious about his runs. But he moves and slides in the pocket just enough to find open throwing lanes. He looks to throw first, and runs with the other options or exhausted.

I think this is a good video in general to show what RGIII is capable of (if you've got lots of time to watch it).

You'll see a lot of him standing in the pocket, and even when he takes off to run, he keeps the ball in a throwing position and always keeps his eyes down field. And a lot of him moving his feet in the pocket is him moving his feet with every progression, which is what we do in this offense; feet go this way for this progression, feet go this way for this progression, etc.,.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

NLC, i watched the first 10 minutes of it. he looks impressive for sure, i just dont know if thats gonna translate to the NFL. he runs the option 95% of the time, rarely takes snaps from under center, and throws short a lot to the sidelines, and i just dont know if hes gonna be able to do the same things at the NFL level. people are talking about drafting him in the top 5, espn has him rated as a 2nd round pick so clearly theres a huge fan disconnect there.

again, ill get flamed for it but it seems a lot of people (not saying you or irep) just want him because hes a michael vick type and those kind of guys are fun to watch. essentially that video i watched is what michael vick was last year in 2010: mobile QB in the pocket, big arm, accurate with all the throws, and can beat you on the ground and in the air. and we're seeing what happens to QBs like him this year (especially guys that arent huge like newton is) is that theyre injured constantly. anytime your QB takes off its a scary situation, which is why i prefer the typical pocket passer.

if somehow he rises up the draft board and shanny takes him, im still gonna be scared but if they can turn him into a monster then so be it, i just want a rookie QB that can put points on the board.

[KCClybun]

NLC, i watched the first 10 minutes of it. he looks impressive for sure, i just dont know if thats gonna translate to the NFL. he runs the option 95% of the time, rarely takes snaps from under center, and throws short a lot to the sidelines, and i just dont know if hes gonna be able to do the same things at the NFL level. people are talking about drafting him in the top 5, espn has him rated as a 2nd round pick so clearly theres a huge fan disconnect there.

again, ill get flamed for it but it seems a lot of people (not saying you or irep) just want him because hes a michael vick type and those kind of guys are fun to watch. essentially that video i watched is what michael vick was last year in 2010: mobile QB in the pocket, big arm, accurate with all the throws, and can beat you on the ground and in the air. and we're seeing what happens to QBs like him this year (especially guys that arent huge like newton is) is that theyre injured constantly. anytime your QB takes off its a scary situation, which is why i prefer the typical pocket passer.

if somehow he rises up the draft board and shanny takes him, im still gonna be scared but if they can turn him into a monster then so be it, i just want a rookie QB that can put points on the board.

I'll actually agree. I like Barkley and Tannehill ever so slightly more. I think RGIII is FAR ahead of where Vick was a passer until last year. But I think you're onto something when you say certain people just want him because they think he'll be Michael Vick.

I think he can put on some more weight in the NFL (gotta stay slim for track) and he'll be fine; if you actually see his muscular, he's pretty built. Not that Vick isn't, but RGIII looks like his frame could add weight and he wouldn't lose much speed and would become a little sturdier. Outside of his sophomore year, he's never really had a lot of injury problems.

It's just what's going to happen when people see an athletic, black quarterback who can run. I hate bring race into discussions like this, but it's true. If you were to watch a Virginia Tech tape of Michael Vick, and watch a tape of RGIII, they'd become COMPLETELY different animals. But people see "black guy who runs" and automatically make the links to Vick, Young, McNabb, et. al. He's a lot better prospect than that, and he's a lot more humble and hard working than either one of those guys.

See just as many people condemning him because of those three guys as I do people going "Man, if we could just get him, we'd have our own Michael Vick!". I'd much rather have our own RGIII.

I think RGIII would definitely put up points as a rookie, provided he had the right supporting cast and we did enough things to make him feel comfortable.

[DWil]

I'll take Barkley, Jones, or Griffin III ( I truly don't care). All three are talented enough to lead an NFL franchise to wins and that's ALL THAT MATTERS TO ME!! This post should have a 4th option which says "Anyone of the Top 3 Please"

[skinsfanindallas88]

Barkley and Jones would be safe picks...Griffin is an intriguing prospect but he's a boom/bust type of player

[Prototype]

Barkley and Jones would be safe picks...Griffin is an intriguing prospect but he's a boom/bust type of player

True. Trent Williams was a safe pick. How'd that turn out? Could've gotten Eric Berry.

I don't want it to be, "could've gotten RGIII"

[DogofWar1]

Would I be wrong in thinking of RGIII more in terms of McNabb rather than in terms of Young or Vick?

Also, I like RGIII a lot more after yesterday's game. I viewed it as something of a duel between him and Jones for the #3 QB in the draft, and I have to give the win to RGIII.

Jones: 36/51 447 yds, 0TD, 1 INT

RGIII: 21/34 479 yds, 4TD, 0 INT

A lot of people say RGIII does the short throws, but he had plenty of long throws that game, with his average at over 20 ypc.

Personally, I would be fine with RGIII, but I think we might need to trade down a bit to not overdraft him (unless people start chattering I don't see him going earlier than 15), and then bring in someone like Kyle Orton, who will probably be a FA next year, to hedge our bets on the guy. He turns out great, Orton sits, but if RGIII needs some time we've got a starter.

[Redskindon2]

Luck is a non factor, there is no way were are going to get him with the Colts bombing like they are. So I ask you Redskins fans, who would you choose: Matt Barkley or Landry Jones? Or if you have a dark horse, let us know.

I have been watching a lot of film on the two (due to extreme work boredom) and its a pretty tough call. The more I have been watching Jones the more I like. He has a plus arm and plus accuracy with limited speed but decent mobility. His size is prototypical which after watching 4+ batted Grossman balls a game, I think a 6'5 QB would be nice. He definitely isn't perfect with his reads and sometimes likes to just let it fly down field but I think that can be developed. Also there is the fact that he plays in the BIG 12 rather than the PAC-12 which I think we can all agree is for superior when it comes the level of talent on defense that he is forced to play against. I think as long as we are pick in the top 10 in the draft that we can maneuver our way up to get him. Let me know what you all think.

Cheers

after watching the USC/Oregon game saturday I want Matt Barkley for our next QB. He is definitely a playmaker. He threw some beautiful long passes that were right on the money. He would be a nice addition to our suck @$$ skins. We need a winner and he's a winner. at least he was saturday.

[Laron Burgundy]

Decided to do a breakdown of Barkley to explain what I'm seeing. It's one of his worse games of the season, and it was awful imo. Unlike another breakdown, I'm not cherry picking just the passes I want here, this is all of them from the Washington game. Here we go, you can follow along here:

.07 Completion. Good throw, 15 yards past LoS.

.12 Incompletion. Bad, threw right to defender 2 yards past LoS.

.43 Incompletion. Bad, too far inside. Got PI, but that could have been picked by a more aware defender. 28 yards past scrimmage.

.52 Completion, but bad throw, SPECTACULAR catch. 33 yards down field.

1.49 Incompletion. Bad throw, great play on ball by db, but that ball was thrown too far out of bounds to have possibly been a completion.

2.07 Took a bad sack on a broken screen play.

2.57 Incompletion. Bad throw, threw WAY too high on a short pass. Nearly 2 feet off the mark on a short pass.

3.05 Incompletion. Way too far for a completion, but got illegal contact. 15 yards from where receiver got tangled.

3.22 Pass batted.

3.37 Incompletion. Way behind receiver, thrown 13 yards down field. Probably a full 3-4 feet from being in perfect position.

3.53 Incompletion. Way too far ahead of receiver. 11 yards past scrimmage.

3.58 Completion, good throw 5 yards down field.

4.37 1 yard scramble because he saw no one open, average play.

4.42 Incompletion, bad throw into coverage, should have been picked. 7 yards down field.

4.50 Incompletion, McNabb ground ball special. 10 yards. A full 3 feet off from being a completion.

5.16 Incompletion, bad overthrow 50 yards down field, good decision with single coverage, but bad aim. Overthrew by at least 2 yards.

5.22 Completion. Best throw of game, under pressure. 7 yards.

5.38 Completion. Dump off to rb on 4th and 8, but threw off defender with pump fake, threw 5 yards down field. Good play.

6.07 Completion. Good 5 yard throw.

6.13 Incompletion, WAY underthrown, dangerous if corner saw it. 23 yards down field. That ball needed to be at least 3 yards further down field.

6.32 Incompletion, underthrown again, receiver had man beat if ball was thrown to hit him in stride. 35 yards. Again, about 3 yards off from being a good throw.

I didn't cover all the short passes, I consider anything around the line of scrimmage to be gimme passes, it's not a positive to complete those, but it is a negative if you don't. If you kept track of that, he threw a total of 70 yards down field on what was officially 28 pass attempts, 16 of which were down field throws. To put that in perspective, he threw for a total of -45 yards on all the passes behind the line of scrimmage. He completed just 6 passes past the line of scrimmage, and the longest, a 33 yarder, was a poor throw but an amazing catch. He was 2 for 10 on throws longer than 10 yards, and again, one of those throws was still poorly thrown but the receiver saved him. He completed just 38% of his pass attempts thrown beyond the line of scrimmage. And that 33 yarder is also the only throw that was a completion into tight coverage, every other throw was relatively wide open, and, for the 3rd time, that was the receiver, not the qb. 12 of his 18 completions were behind the line of scrimmage. This is exactly what I mean when I say he has poor accuracy down field. I think it is absolutely undeniable. And mind you, this was against Sarkisian, who claims Barkley is better than Luck.

When the play broke down, Barkley had none of what Bill Walsh called "spontaneous genius." In fact, perhaps spontaneous idiocy would better describe it. I only recall 4 times that the play actually broke down because his line is phenomenal, and in those four plays he took a dumb sack, he threw a ball right to a defender, he scrambled for a 1 yard gain, and he threw a ball too far out on a sideline throw (ended up being tipped by a db anyways, but wouldn't have been a completion).

In my eyes there is no way the guy is a 1st round talent. Even in his good games he is still inaccurate, but his wr make more plays on the ball. I've looked at the colorado tape and saw much of the same. He is far less accurate than Weeden, Luck, or Griffin. Who knows, maybe he really tore it up against Oregon, that's why I can't wait to see a cut up of that game. I saw only 2 throws in that entire Washington game that I thought were even above average throws, it was just simply so unimpressive that I'm willing to bet Barkley's ceiling is about where Sanchez is at right now. He might, once or twice a season, win a game for you, but generally he'll be average to poor, and certainly lose more games for you than he wins.

---------- Post added November-21st-2011 at 07:14 AM ----------

True. Trent Williams was a safe pick. How'd that turn out? Could've gotten Eric Berry.

I don't want it to be' date=' "could've gotten RGIII"[/quote']

Trent wasn't the safe pick, Okung was. Berry was also considered pretty safe. But I disagree that Barkley is a safe pick. To me he's a safe pick to be nothing more than a mediocre qb, if that's what we're aiming for. He'll never be a top 10 qb in this league.

[Skinsinparadise]

True. Trent Williams was a safe pick. How'd that turn out? Could've gotten Eric Berry.

I don't want it to be' date=' "could've gotten RGIII"[/quote']

Trent wasn't considered top 5 in most mocks, Okung was rated over him in most of them too. Eric Berry actually was considered a safe pick but we needed a LT more than a FS. I get your point about Griffin but disagree with the example, Trent IMO is an example of taking a risk, he was a stud RT in college, he played LT for a year and wasn't dominating at the position but at the time it was said he was taken for his potential.

[GWinSkins83]

I know something he dominated Ware again yesterday.

[Skins3000]

I am so tired of everyone thinking this kid RG III is Vick simply because he is an African American. Did we not learn our lesson with Cam Newton? How is Blaine Gabbert doing by the way? Christian Ponder? or how about Jake Locker who happens to sit the bench. The only quarterback playing well other than Cam is Andy Dalton and I liked Andy after watching him in the Wisconsin bowl game last year. I bought into the Cam Newton nonsense from these so call draft experts and the guy is nothing but a stud. Barkley does not have the arm strength to lay a deep ball out there period. Barkley under threw a wide open Wr that had to wait on the ball that had an apparent 6 points. The kid will be nothing better than a Jimmy Claussen. RG III has some serious velocity on his ball that makes him able to throw into tight windows. The kid sits in the pocket with a subpar line read first run damn near last. End of the day the man should be judged on his TALENT.

[#98QBKiller]

Decided to do a breakdown of Barkley to explain what I'm seeing. It's one of his worse games of the season, and it was awful imo. Unlike another breakdown, I'm not cherry picking just the passes I want here, this is all of them from the Washington game. Here we go, you can follow along here:

Thanks for the breakdown. And that guy's youtube channel that you linked to is a GREAT page to evaluate college QBs from.

[mjpanzer]

I am so tired of everyone thinking this kid RG III is Vick simply because he is an African American. Did we not learn our lesson with Cam Newton? How is Blaine Gabbert doing by the way? Christian Ponder? or how about Jake Locker who happens to sit the bench. The only quarterback playing well other than Cam is Andy Dalton and I liked Andy after watching him in the Wisconsin bowl game last year. I bought into the Cam Newton nonsense from these so call draft experts and the guy is nothing but a stud. Barkley does not have the arm strength to lay a deep ball out there period. Barkley under threw a wide open Wr that had to wait on the ball that had an apparent 6 points. The kid will be nothing better than a Jimmy Claussen. RG III has some serious velocity on his ball that makes him able to throw into tight windows. The kid sits in the pocket with a subpar line read first run damn near last. End of the day the man should be judged on his TALENT.

Uh Jake Locker came in for Hassleback and was like 9/16 with 2 TD 0 interceptions and 140 yards...

EDIT: Also Cam Newton has come down to earth a little bit.

[Ghost of]

Give me a QB who hasn't played QB for 3 years and won solely on athleticism.

So wait, Jake Locker and Andy Dalton weren't runners and they didn't rely solely on athletic ability, in spite of a greater running ratio than RG3, but this isn't a racial thing because you go back to Randall Cunningham (why not Bobby Douglass?) who was a hair's breadth away from the SUPER BOWL with the highest scoring team in NFL history with Minnesota (he was not the passer Griffin was in college, nor was Vick the passer Griffin is, look at the stats)

You know what, eff it. GW was right. There is most definitely a racial component to this thing. Not in the sense of any malice against the player in question but calling a black QB who runs LESS than white Qbs an "athlete who plays QB" while ignoring white QBs who run MORE and are no more advanced as passers and had more surrounding talent (in many cases) has got to be called what it is.

Getting a bit sick of ****ing reading it.

---------- Post added November-21st-2011 at 09:23 AM ----------

Sorry, you need to read Outliers. The hours put in as a young kid running a position makes a huge difference.

You're not citing Malcolm ****ing Gladwell books now, are you?

[ZRagone]

I'll take RGIII over Barkley or Jones at this point. Mobility will help as we rebuild the line as he starts at youth and adds an element of danger to his game. Look at Aaron Rodgers in Green Bay for example, Farve or McNabb from previous years, etc. You don't necessarily need him to be Mike Vick, Cam Netwon, Tim Tebow, or Vince Young who are almost as much runners as they are passes. But having someone that can move and pose that bit of a threat is helpful.

At the same time, the kid's got a great arm, is very accurate, and seems to be both a good character and student of the game.

[Ghost of]

Personally, I would be fine with RGIII, but I think we might need to trade down a bit to not overdraft him (unless people start chattering I don't see him going earlier than 15.

I guarantee you that he's going earlier than 15. As for short throws/long throws, I read somewhere someone saying he completes over 59 percent of his deep passes this year? Anyone get any confirmation of this?