SkinsHokieFan Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 could we just let this stupid **** go? heath shuler was drafted almost 20 years ago. he busted. lets get over it.were so far removed from that its a non factor at this point. Exactly. Same with Ryan Leaf. The scouting that goes into QBs now is far superior from what it was in the late 90s I think our comprehensive draft thread has better analysis and breakdown of potential NFL players then scouts and GMs did in the 1990s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#98QBKiller Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 I think our comprehensive draft thread has better analysis and breakdown of potential NFL players then scouts and GMs did in the 1990s There may actually be some truth to this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.T.real,lights,out Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 What good is a "surefire" talent if you don't have the draft picks to build a team around him?I really think people are fooling themselves by thinking giving up a bunch of number one picks is all it's going to take.... Look at the Colts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beans Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Skins ain't getting Luck. Won too many games already and the Colts are tanking. Polian knows Luck is his only chance. Peyton was his savior last time. All the fans buying into Luck as a possibility are just setting themselves up for heartbreak. **** Luck. Give me RGIII! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Exactly. Same with Ryan Leaf. The scouting that goes into QBs now is far superior from what it was in the late 90s I think our comprehensive draft thread has better analysis and breakdown of potential NFL players then scouts and GMs did in the 1990s again, its the history associated with this team and this fanbase: we dont need a franchise QB cause gibbs won without one. i hear this (again) on a weekly basis, and its flat out stupid at this point. people just parrot what a few old heads like to say: build the oline and get this pounding ground game and you can win, and dont draft a QB in the first round because Heath Shuler sucked. its the most nerve racking thing ever because im 100% convinced that a lot of redskins fans dont follow the NFL outside of our team. they dont see guys like brady, manning, brees, rivers, rodgers, roethlisburger etc carve teams up week in and week out and lead their team like a franchise QB does. everyone saying drafting one QB isnt going to fix everything: youre 100% correct. a QB is not THE be all end all of an NFL team. however, it IS the most important piece on the field, and getting that position set makes finding the other pieces a hell of a lot easier. a franchise QB automatically improves the offense, and while it wont solve every problem we have, its still a major factor that needs to be addressed, and asap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terpskins10 Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 again, its the history associated with this team and this fanbase: we dont need a franchise QB cause gibbs won without one. i hear this (again) on a weekly basis, and its flat out stupid at this point. people just parrot what a few old heads like to say: build the oline and get this pounding ground game and you can win, and dont draft a QB in the first round because Heath Shuler sucked. its the most nerve racking thing ever because im 100% convinced that a lot of redskins fans dont follow the NFL outside of our team. they dont see guys like brady, manning, brees, rivers, rodgers, roethlisburger etc carve teams up week in and week out and lead their team like a franchise QB does.everyone saying drafting one QB isnt going to fix everything: youre 100% correct. a QB is not THE be all end all of an NFL team. however, it IS the most important piece on the field, and getting that position set makes finding the other pieces a hell of a lot easier. a franchise QB automatically improves the offense, and while it wont solve every problem we have, its still a major factor that needs to be addressed, and asap. I just feel like copying this and posting it in every thread when someone mentions Gibbs' Super Bowls. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbsisgod2006 Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 I just feel like copying this and posting it in every thread when someone mentions Gibbs' Super Bowls. lol That is so true as Skin fans we have to let go of the past and realize that the NFL today is very different from the NFL in the 80's. In today's NFL you need that Franchise QB in order to be relevent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 There are maybe five teams in the NFL that don't need Andrew Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terpskins10 Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 There are maybe five teams in the NFL that don't need Andrew Luck Yeah, but there aren't that many teams who 1) haven't invested enough into the QB position to preclude drafting Luck and 2) will finish with a bad enough record to be able to trade up to number 1. The Redskins are one of those teams that will fit both requirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Yeah, but there aren't that many teams who 1) haven't invested enough into the QB position to preclude drafting Luck and 2) will finish with a bad enough record to be able to trade up to number 1.The Redskins are one of those teams that will fit both requirements. Would cost us a ton to move up to the number 1 pick. And thats only if St Louis gets it or Miami and Indy suddenly go on a winning streak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 I just feel like copying this and posting it in every thread when someone mentions Gibbs' Super Bowls. lol please do, i just wish more fans would get the picture on how the modern NFL is run. instead theyd rather talk about football from 30 years ago and tell me that because the ravens won with a bad QB that it can be done and we should just use that leg to stand on. so ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerald362 Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 If we could get Luck just for the cost of next year's draft, I would grab it at this point. Much better deal than multiple 1st's in my opinion. I am beginning to change my mind about paying heavily for Luck regardless. Homer is making more and more sense to me. Bro. I agree.... I just don't necessarily by into the "do what ever it takes" philosophy. Do i think that something could be done, do doubt. But, I sure as Hades ain't going Mike Ditka to get anyone either. But again, thats just me....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 ....build the oline and get this pounding ground game and you can win, and dont draft a QB in the first round because Heath Shuler sucked. its the most nerve racking thing ever..Nerve racking is how you consistently or purposefully miss the point of a post.I can't think of 1 person that wouldn't draft Luck #1. But, that isn't the question. The question is trading away the future for him. And the point being made with Shuler is there are no sure things. Cutcliffe coached both Peyton Manning and Shuler and said Shuler was more talented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan913 Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Luck=Leinart! I watched his last game just to see what ALL the hype was about for myself and I have to say I saw a good QB but not some franchise saviour as most of you seem to think. Its so funny how every year the "experts" are sooooo wrong its a wonder why people still just take their word for it. Tebow was the most hyped QB I can remember in recent years and he absolutely blows! The experts also said Cam Newton would be a bust and we all know how that turned out. To me, Luck didnt look any better than Barkley did. Now dont get me wrong, I do believe Luck is better than what we currently have but hey who isnt? lol I would be satisfied with either but I would not trade the farm just to move up and get him while ignoring other holes on this team. I dont care if we get Peyton Manning in free agency, if we dont shore up that O-line no QB will be able to do anything frrom his back ala Beck this past weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Nerve racking is how you consistently or purposefully miss the point of a post.I can't think of 1 person that wouldn't draft Luck #1. But, that isn't the question. The question is trading away the future for him. And the point being made with Shuler is there are no sure things. Cutcliffe coached both Peyton Manning and Shuler and said Shuler was more talented. id assure there are people whod say to trade that pick for multiple picks and draft 10 tackles and guards. everybody knows there are no such thing as sure bets, but the fear of drafting a QB with a high first rounder because heath shuler sucked is laughable (and thats what it is, dont fool yourself into thinking its something other than that). and youre not trading the future for a franchise QB. a franchise QB IS the future, so youre basically saying for our future, youd rather have a franchise QB thats being touted as the next peyton manning, than a bunch of draft picks that might pan out also. this all boils down to fear, and overstating the importance of our oline. people freak out about drafting a first round QB because heath shuler and campbell were busts, so theres a preconceived notion that whoever we draft will suck. and there are countless people who think unless we get this juggernaut of an NFL oline that our next QB will turn into patrick ramsey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chump Bailey Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 this all boils down to fear, and overstating the importance of our oline. people freak out about drafting a first round QB because heath shuler and campbell were busts, so theres a preconceived notion that whoever we draft will suck. and there are countless people who think unless we get this juggernaut of an NFL oline that our next QB will turn into patrick ramsey. You definitely have a point. I feared it last draft only because I don't watch enough college ball. I went by the QB draft profiles. If I had watched QB's like Dalton etc... I likely would have had an entirely different mindset. Nothing should prevent us from zeroing in on the QB position in the 2012 draft like a laser though and that brings some comfort. OL & QB are the priority. As another poster said - " we need a QB like a fish needs water." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terpskins10 Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 this all boils down to fear, and overstating the importance of our oline. people freak out about drafting a first round QB because heath shuler and campbell were busts, so theres a preconceived notion that whoever we draft will suck. and there are countless people who think unless we get this juggernaut of an NFL oline that our next QB will turn into patrick ramsey. The other issue I have is that this mentality effectively closes our window of success. Let's say we do follow the model these people are advocating. Build up the O-Line, grab some great skill position players, beef up the running game, make the defense better. Then finally, when all that is done, insert mediocre QB and watch us become the Ravens of 2000. Problem is, by the time we get a QB in there who is ready to lead the team after going through the entire process of building up everything around him first, a lot of our current building block players like Davis will be at the tail end of their careers. Drafting a franchise QB opens your window of competition much wider. Look at the Packers in Rodgers' first two years starting. The OL was putrid and the defense was nothing to write home about in Capers' first year, but Rodgers gained valuable experience and confidence. I contend that had he not gone through that trial by fire with a rebuilding team, they wouldn't be the team they are today and would not have won the Super Bowl last year. Getting a QB in there is the first step. Adding pieces around him gradually makes us more of a contender than building up everything first and then trying to insert some QB that "fits our scheme" but isn't as good or talented. Our window of success will be much bigger if we get a QB in there first because QBs keep teams competitive even when the pieces around them aren't up to par. On a side note, I hate when people say "I'd rather get a QB that fits our system". You know what kind of QB fits every system? A great one. You know what QB fits no syste,? A bad one. See Grossman, Rex. He "fit our scheme". He "knew the offense". The only overlooked part is that he isn't any good. We need to get a good QB first and then mold our "system" to fit him. That's what the great teams do and it's high time our team AND fanbase got with the program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatorskin77 Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 again, its the history associated with this team and this fanbase: we dont need a franchise QB cause gibbs won without one. i hear this (again) on a weekly basis, and its flat out stupid at this point. people just parrot what a few old heads like to say: build the oline and get this pounding ground game and you can win, and dont draft a QB in the first round because Heath Shuler sucked. its the most nerve racking thing ever because im 100% convinced that a lot of redskins fans dont follow the NFL outside of our team. they dont see guys like brady, manning, brees, rivers, rodgers, roethlisburger etc carve teams up week in and week out and lead their team like a franchise QB does.everyone saying drafting one QB isnt going to fix everything: youre 100% correct. a QB is not THE be all end all of an NFL team. however, it IS the most important piece on the field, and getting that position set makes finding the other pieces a hell of a lot easier. a franchise QB automatically improves the offense, and while it wont solve every problem we have, its still a major factor that needs to be addressed, and asap. This is the best post I Have seen on here for a while, well done sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 id assure there are people whod say to trade that pick for multiple picks and draft 10 tackles and guards.Pure strawman.There's a quote feature, quote someone saying this. everybody knows there are no such thing as sure bets,Riiigggghhhhtttt.If evrbody knew this there would be no discussion of trading 4 1st round picks or an entire draft for 1 pick. but the fear of drafting a QB with a high first rounder because heath shuler sucked is laughable (and thats what it is, dont fool yourself into thinking its something other than that).lol, this is exactly what I'm talking about.You know why its laughable? BECAUSE NO ONE IS SAYING THIS Its fiction, its something you invented. They mentioned Shuler as an example of a 'sure thing' that wasn't. and youre not trading the future for a franchise QB.Actually no.You're trading the future for a potential franchise QB. Trading the future for a franchise QB would be trading for an actual franchise QB not a potential franchise QB. BTW-(if Green Bay is taking offers I'm all for Rodgers I'm all in) IS the future, so youre basically saying for our future, youd rather have a franchise QB thats being touted as the next peyton manning, than a bunch of draft picks that might pan out also.What was Dan Marino touted as? Or Ben Rothlisberger? Or Brees? Or Favre? Or Rodgers? Or Cutler? Or Brady? None of them were touted as 'the next Manning' they weren't even the most 'touted' QB in their draft class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themurf Posted November 2, 2011 Author Share Posted November 2, 2011 Update: Chad Dukes and LaVar Arrington have asked me to come on their show today at 4 p.m. to talk about this. Should be a fun discussion about the Redskins and Andrew Luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOF44 Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Update: Chad Dukes and LaVar Arrington have asked me to come on their show today at 4 p.m. to talk about this. Should be a fun discussion about the Redskins and Andrew Luck. Oh my you and Laverne together???? Only way it could be better it if it was Art or TK too! I'm gonna find the stream just to listen to this. I'm sure it will be much more civil and informative with you, but i like the fireworks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themurf Posted November 2, 2011 Author Share Posted November 2, 2011 Oh my you and Laverne together???? Only way it could be better it if it was Art or TK too! I'm gonna find the stream just to listen to this. I'm sure it will be much more civil and informative with you, but i like the fireworks! They've had me on the show before. I know not everyone on ES loves Arrington and Dukes, but they're extremely supportive of local bloggers and have always been very kind to me in particular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 They've had me on the show before. I know not everyone on ES loves Arrington and Dukes, but they're extremely supportive of local bloggers and have always been very kind to me in particular. Awesome! I'll be sure to listen in to this. I think you made some sound arguments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Update: Chad Dukes and LaVar Arrington have asked me to come on their show today at 4 p.m. to talk about this. Should be a fun discussion about the Redskins and Andrew Luck. thanks for the update, I'll tune in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 They've had me on the show before. I know not everyone on ES loves Arrington and Dukes, but they're extremely supportive of local bloggers and have always been very kind to me in particular. Outstanding Murf! Can you do me a HUGE favor and kindly ask Lavar who edits his column? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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