Atlanta Skins Fan Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 It's hard to assume he isn't hiding behind his ongoing agenda against Shanahan when it comes to QB's. I'm not hiding anything. Back in August, my attention was drawn by comments that Shanahan made about Beck that I found ludicrous. Until then, I'd been fairly quiet since Shanahan's arrival, about Redskin QBs and in general. I posted a couple of threads late in 2010 season about Grossman, after he was announced as a starter, and that was about it. As an example, I wouldn't have traded for McNabb, but I was content to see what Shanahan could do with him. You won't find a thread or post from me, arguing that Grossman should have been starting in 2010 ... over Campbell or McNabb. I gave Shanahan ordinary deference and assumed he'd make the right decisions. This year, the fascination with Beck has struck me as idiotic, and probably the worst move by the franchise since drafting Jason Campbell. Lately this has caused me to reexamine Shanahan's history. I was surprised what I found. I've accepted that 2011 is now a wasted year thanks in great part to Shanahan's handling of QBs. Now my focus is on 2012. If Shanahan thinks like Spurrier, there's no chance that he'd trade for Andrew Luck. So, this begs the question I asked. Do fans want Andrew Luck more than they want Mike Shanahan? I think it's a very valid question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Well, to know the true answer to that would be to know both what we were prepared to offer, and just what price the Rams ultimately wanted.I personally don't think there was anyway in Hell, shy of something like this thread proposes or more that they were prepared to give up the chance of their top level franchise QB, which I still believe Bradford has the talent to justify. Hail. If true and Shanny tried, it gives us hope I guess. I don't want to cripple this team in the coming years but at the same time I am 100% confident that if we don't have an elite (top 5 QB) we won't be where I want this team to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HogNose Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 3 years down the road who's to say that another from this draft class won't be better then Luck? Who knows but it can and does happen. I have said and will say that 2nd rounder Andy Dalton will have a better NFL career than Cam Newton. Dalton was the best QB in the 2011 draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 If true and Shanny tried, it gives us hope I guess. I don't want to cripple this team in the coming years but at the same time I am 100% confident that if we don't have an elite (top 5 QB) we won't be where I want this team to be. Oh, I think there's little doubt that we'll be drafting a top 5 caliber QB as, at least to me anyway's, it's becoming more and more apparent we'll be drafting that high to start with. But I'd sure as heck like to take the creme de la creme if we could swing it instead of a merely very good one. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allannis Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 That's the gamble you take with any player.Just this one happens to be as commonly agreed close to a 'sure thing' as you could wish to have. So that gambles lessoned as much as it can be. Hail. It would be a big gamble. This team would be ruined if if this did'nt work out, Maybe we need a Tom Brady instead of a Peyton Manning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrJL Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Why are people still posting these threads? Where are the Colts and Dolphins three or four wins supposed to come from? Okay, we face Miami so if we lose to them we have a tie breaker. But we don't play the Colts. If teams are really going to "suck for Luck," and we have three wins and other teams have zero wins there is no way to "earn" or acquire the first pick in the draft to get him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I think it's faulty to draw some kind of correlation between his clear cut #1 status and winning a championship 16 years after he was drafted. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say if you draft a HOF at QB, you did pretty well, championship or not. It's not perfect but I think it's interesting how the similarities are stacking up between the 2012 draft and the 83 draft. Luck - Elway Barkley- Blackledge Jones- Kelly Foles - Eason Tannehill - O'Brian RGIII - Marino (I like the RGIII comp here due to the stats anomaly he may have). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Now my focus is on 2012. If Shanahan thinks like Spurrier, there's no chance that he'd trade for Andrew Luck.So, this begs the question I asked. Do fans want Andrew Luck more than they want Mike Shanahan? I think it's a very valid question. As I don't believe he thinks like he who shall not be mentioned (shudders. Like BIG); then I want a third option of both. That's just as valid to me. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 It would be a big gamble. This team would be ruined if if this did'nt work out, Maybe we need a Tom Brady instead of a Peyton Manning. Tom Brady is the exception to the rule. What has Orakpo, Kerrigan and Trent Williams, Kelly and Thomas done for us again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
issapunk Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Okay. Who is it?Again, look at the 83 draft. Elway - best prospect ever. 2 championships 5 superbowl appearances - one of the top 10 of all time Todd Blackledge - Who we'd end up with Jim Kelly - HOFer, got em to 4. never won Tony Eason - Got to 1 Ken O'Brian - not horrible, nothing special Dan Marino - got to one, top 10 of all time Which one do we get? I want the one that wins Lombardis. Well, obviously we can both agree that we want the one who wins the rings. But with the Elway argument, how long did it take him to win those rings? Would you be patient enough to spend 4 1sts on a guy and wait 15 years for him to win? I would love Luck. 2 1sts 2 2nds maybe some lowers and throw in Hall or Landry etc, then it is worth it. But how can we be successful with Luck if we have no one at all around him. Question, if Luck played for us last Sunday, do you think we would have won that game? Because if we trade the house for him, he will be standing behind a very similar offense to this year's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Well, obviously we can both agree that we want the one who wins the rings. But with the Elway argument, how long did it take him to win those rings? Would you be patient enough to spend 4 1sts on a guy and wait 15 years for him to win? I would love Luck. 2 1sts 2 2nds maybe some lowers and throw in Hall or Landry etc, then it is worth it. But how can we be successful with Luck if we have no one at all around him. Question, if Luck played for us last Sunday, do you think we would have won that game? Because if we trade the house for him, he will be standing behind a very similar offense to this year's. There are stats that seem to indicate that many of those sacks were on the QB. I know, seems crazy to think when Beck can't finish his drop before getting hit, but he should have made line call adjustments, he should have audibled, he held the ball too long too often. I'll take the qb and figure out a way to get max talent later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedBNG Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 And since Luck is widely viewed as a once-in-a-generation type of can’t-miss talent, I’m on board with Washington giving up as many as four first-round draft picks if that’s what it took to land the Houston, Texas, native. In the long run, I’m convinced he’s more than worth that steep price tag. Well, we went 7 years in a row ('84-'90) without any 1st round picks, and a few that followed didn't help much (Howard, Carter, Shuler, Westbrook, A. Johnson, Gardner, Ramsey, Campbell). Daaaayum, that looks pathetic What the hey... I'm on board! But if it turns out to be Miami I'm afraid there'll be no trades in fear of the fans burning down Sun Life Stadium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 The problem is, what if Andrew Luck turns out to be Heath Shuler instead of Peyton Manning. Great Scott Marty if we don't go back and change our pick this team will never win the Super Bowl and your kids will be Cowboy fans. There is no Delorean we use to reverse that course and the gamble is too hefty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlanta Skins Fan Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 As I don't believe he thinks like he who shall not be mentioned (shudders. Like BIG); then I want a third option of both.That's just as valid to me. Hail. Obviously most people would vote for both. (I would.) The interest in the poll is assessing whether fans value Shanahan or Andrew Luck more, if forced to choose. FWIW, I have no interest in firing Shanahan. At the same time, I wouldn't want to be in Snyder's position in the offseason, finding out that my head coach has no interest in trading for Andrew Luck. That's a serious dilemma as an owner. It would be like finding out that your coach didn't want Peyton Manning or Elway. In retrospect, those QBs were worth far more to their franchises than any coach. In retrospect, the right move would have been to overrule (or fire) the coach and draft / trade for Manning / Elway. I think this dilemma will be a live grenade in more than one NFL franchise's executive suite this offseason. Tough call for the owners, GMs and coaches involved. It's a classic choice between the longterm and short-term interests of the franchise. Getting Luck may require turning an NFL franchise into an expansion team, by depleting top talent and picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boy1Der Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I actually really like Landry Jones and RGIII. Remember Eli Manning got drafted number 1 and Phillip Rivers went 2nd but their was also another guy Big Ben who went later who has won two super bowls and taken his team to another. The Redskins problem is they usually pick the wrong year to pick a QB this is a great year to get a QB if all most of these QBs come out Griffin, Jones, Luck, Tannehill and Barkley. Then Mike Shanahan can just pick the guy that is right for his system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
issapunk Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 There are stats that seem to indicate that many of those sacks were on the QB. I know, seems crazy to think when Beck can't finish his drop before getting hit, but he should have made line call adjustments, he should have audibled, he held the ball too long too often. I'll take the qb and figure out a way to get max talent later. Honestly, I would absolutely love Luck. If we got him, I would lose my **** on draft day and throw the biggest Skins party of my life. I might be arguing this fact just to prepare myself for the fact that we probably won't get him and to make me feel good about us getting RGIII. Whatever happens this April, I think we will get out franchise QB, whether it be Luck or someone else, and I think we can win soon in both scenarios. We get Luck, we instantly have a great QB. We get RGIII, we have a good QB and can surround him with talent enough to make up for the disparity between him and Luck. Either way, I see us being a very winning team in 2014. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman21ST Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 It would be a big gamble. This team would be ruined if if this did'nt work out, Maybe we need a Tom Brady instead of a Peyton Manning. So you don't want us to take a QB until the 7th round and hope he hits gold? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allannis Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Tom Brady is the exception to the rule.What has Orakpo, Kerrigan and Trent Williams, Kelly and Thomas done for us again? And you think Luck is such a sure thing your willing to ruin the team for years if he does'nt work out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prototype Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I just hope we get it right. No more Heath Schulers, Patrick Ramsey's, or Jason Campbells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
issapunk Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I actually really like Landry Jones and RGIII. Remember Eli Manning got drafted number 1 and Phillip Rivers went 2nd but their was also another guy Big Ben who went later who has won two super bowls and taken his team to another. The Redskins problem is they usually pick the wrong year to pick a QB this is a great year to get a QB if all most of these QBs come out Griffin, Jones, Luck, Tannehill and Barkley. Then Mike Shanahan can just pick the guy that is right for his system. "Hey themurf, first I'd like to say I agree with you for the most part. I would love Luck, but 4 1st rounders seems to be too much. I understand the argument that a Peyton Manning type QB is worth nearly anything, but look at other teams who have been more successful than Peyton without having a QB as good as him. The Steelers took Big Ben with the 11th pick in 2004. They have won 2 rings with him and got to another SB and lost. He was not considered even being close in talent to Eli or Rivers, yet he is much more successful. Is this because he is much better than both of them? Probably not. Probably because the Steelers have a much better foundation and build thru the draft so well. Now, I would rather have Luck than Ben, but would I rather have Luck and no 1st rounders for the next 4 years or would I rather have Ben, Heath Miller, Santonio Holmes, Laurence Timmons and Rashard Mendenhall (who are Pitt's next 4 1st round picks after Ben)? I would take Ben and the other impact players. The Steelers won those SB's because their TEAM was good, not because of their QB. I still think Peyton is one of the best there will ever be, yet he still only won one ring. I'll take one ring any day, but not at the cost of 4 1st rounders when you can keep those picks, build your team, and still win on possibly an even more consistent basis." Not to say the Steelers don't win because of Big Ben, just saying the supporting cast in Pitt is better than in Indy. Put a decent QB in Pitt and I still think they are a winning team, maybe not behind the o-line they got this here, but in past years, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I watched a little of a re-play game yesterday (while trying to kook diner and answer the door for halloween) He looked impressive but I couldn't help but note (as the announcers did) that Luck has one of the best lines in college football. No telling how much that contributes to his "greatness" but it sure would suck if we gave up a ton of picks to get him and he was lost under pressure with our weak O line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 And you think Luck is such a sure thing your willing to ruin the team for years if he does'nt work out? Ruin? Where have you been? WE ARE AT THE THRESHOLD OF HELL!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allannis Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 So you don't want us to take a QB until the 7th round and hope he hits gold? NO, and I don't want to give 4 first round draft picks for Jamarcus Russell either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd421 Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 As usual amazing stuff Murph! Luck is absolutely one of the players that I would not mind giving up picks for...this tea, NEEDS a franchise guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman21ST Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 And you think Luck is such a sure thing your willing to ruin the team for years if he does'nt work out? It wouldn't be "ruining the franchise for years." We would be down a first rounder for a few years. Talent can be found in other rounds. Luck is a once-in-a-generation talent that's worth trading a lot for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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