GibbsFactor Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I watched a little of a re-play game yesterday (while trying to kook diner and answer the door for halloween) He looked impressive but I couldn't help but note (as the announcers did) that Luck has one of the best lines in college football. No telling how much that contributes to his "greatness" but it sure would suck if we gave up a ton of picks to get him and he was lost under pressure with our weak O line. Is it that the oline is so good or is it that he makes them better? I'm thinking the latter. There are stats that indicate pressure and sacks are more often on the QB than the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins199021 Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 At this point just get Luck at all costs.... QBs make receivers better... not the other way around. See Favre, Brady, Mcnabb (in his day) Seriously Trade everything for Luck (picks wise), Sign 2 OGs in FA, Sign Bowe Offense would be a lot more productive.... which means the defense wouldn't have to be on the field 40 minutes a game. I for once in 20 years want to have a ****ing offense, yet people want to just continue to neglect the QB position.... because of other "greater needs" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Well, obviously we can both agree that we want the one who wins the rings. But with the Elway argument, how long did it take him to win those rings? Would you be patient enough to spend 4 1sts on a guy and wait 15 years for him to win? Not only that but Elway wasn't a big reason they won those SB's anyway. They might have won 3 in a row with Marino because they did actually blow it in 1996. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman21ST Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 NO, and I don't want to give 4 first round draft picks for Jamarcus Russell either. Except that Luck has NOTHING in common with JaMarcus. There were tons of red flags on JaMarcus coming out, and a senile Al Davis took him. Luck has NO red flags, and we don't have Al Davis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allannis Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Ruin?Where have you been? WE ARE AT THE THRESHOLD OF HELL!!! So your willing to stay in this hell for years to come, gambling on one player ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Obviously most people would vote for both. (I would.) The interest in the poll is assessing whether fans value Shanahan or Andrew Luck more, if forced to choose.FWIW, I have no interest in firing Shanahan. At the same time, I wouldn't want to be in Snyder's position in the offseason, finding out that my head coach has no interest in trading for Andrew Luck. That's a serious dilemma as an owner. It would be like finding out that your coach didn't want Peyton Manning or Elway. In retrospect, those QBs were worth far more to their franchises than any coach. In retrospect, the right move would have been to overrule (or fire) the coach and draft / trade for Manning / Elway. I think this dilemma will be a live grenade in more than one NFL franchise's executive suite this offseason. Tough call for the owners, GMs and coaches involved. It's a classic choice between the longterm and short-term interests of the franchise. Getting Luck may require turning an NFL franchise into an expansion team, by depleting top talent and picks. Ok, I'll play for ***** and giggles. I'll take Luck. He'd win under any HC. Shanahan may well never have the opportunity to coach a QB of his talent level in the rest of his years coaching. He's a once in a generation type player IMHO. And FWIW, I never have thought you wanted Shanahan fired. I actually don't think you have a serious 'agenda' (which you have had however you'd like to try deny it) against him and his evaluation/ coaching of QB's. I think most of it is both for your own amusement and your too proud/ stubborn to just back down on something; however half-hearted or not it may of started. But far be it from me to put words in your mouth man. I just call it as you write it. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 So your willing to stay in this hell for years to come, gambling on one player ? Absolutely. He's no Russell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allannis Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Except that Luck has NOTHING in common with JaMarcus. There were tons of red flags on JaMarcus coming out, and a senile Al Davis took him.Luck has NO red flags, and we don't have Al Davis. Ok then lets use Heath Shuler than, There are no for sure draft picks is the point. 4 1st round draft pics is too high a price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 You're making a point that (in your mind) is impossible to argue against. Not from a logic standpoint, but because people have to create "strawmen" to do it. If I say "Stanford wouldn't do as well without him" you would say there's no way to tell because you can't project. The fact of the matter is they wouldn't be nearly as good without him. He drives that engine, the same way the Colts are a ten-win team with Peyton, but winless without.Again, if this were USC, Alabama, or any other true powerhouse team that churns out NFL players like it's their job, I would agree with you. That he's performing like he does at a college like Stanford just makes him even better. I don't follow the team, but all I have to do is look at their schedule. They have dominated their competition with the exception of USC. When I see that I know that the QB performance has been enhanced by a great supporting system. QBs look better when they don't face strong competition. It doesn't matter that their school isn't routinely turning out NFL players. It's his teams strength relative to the competition that matters.We know that Mike Shanahan will try to judge the QB's talent apart from his support system. We know that because he didn't care about Beck's lousy performance in Miami. If he judged Beck apart from Miami's supporting cast, he will try to judge Luck apart from Stanford's supporting cast. What will he see when he does that? He's going to look first at the tangibles. Is he a great athlete? Is he a great passer? I haven't seen a consensus of opinion making either claim for Andrew Luck. What I read are claims about his marvelous intangibles. The intangibles that apply to the college game don't necessarily translate to the NFL. How much can you possibly know about a college QB's intangibles for the NFL game? This thread isn't about Luck's chances of making it in the NFL, it's about his value. It would shock me if Mike Shanahan saw enough value to trade up for Andrew Luck. IMO, the hype on this kid has made people crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 "Hey themurf, first I'd like to say I agree with you for the most part. I would love Luck, but 4 1st rounders seems to be too much. I understand the argument that a Peyton Manning type QB is worth nearly anything, but look at other teams who have been more successful than Peyton without having a QB as good as him.The Steelers took Big Ben with the 11th pick in 2004. They have won 2 rings with him and got to another SB and lost. Exactly man. We could actually get a BETTER QB and 3 more 1st rounders later. Imagine how dumb the team would look if Luck comes in and proves that it was Harbaugh all along? I mean Alex Smith is starting to look like an NFL QB now after 6 years of sucking and 5-6 different offenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman21ST Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Ok then lets use Heath Shuler than, There are no for sure draft picks is the point. 4 1st round draft pics is too high a price. Well hell, let's trade away all our picks for vets. What's the point in the draft anyway, since there's no sure thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allannis Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 It wouldn't be "ruining the franchise for years." We would be down a first rounder for a few years. Talent can be found in other rounds. Luck is a once-in-a-generation talent that's worth trading a lot for Now you sound like Vinnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman21ST Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Exactly man. We could actually get a BETTER QB and 3 more 1st rounders later. Imagine how dumb the team would look if Luck comes in and proves that it was Harbaugh all along? I mean Alex Smith is starting to look like an NFL QB now after 6 years of sucking and 5-6 different offenses. Except that he's having a better season after Harbaugh left than he did with Harbaugh. And Alex Smith is nothing more than a game manager. He's not asked to throw it 40-50 times a game. His highest yardage total in a game is 291, he averages 181 yards per game. He only has 9 TD passes in 7 games. He doesn't throw INTs and he hands it to Frank Gore. ---------- Post added November-1st-2011 at 06:04 PM ---------- Now you sound like Vinnie Right, OK. Like I said, why don't we just trade all our picks since no one's a sure thing? Do you think that would be better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamecokskins703 Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I have a question for everybody here... What would you guys do, if we lost out the season, was able to get the 1st overall pick. and Shanny traded Luck for 4 first round picks. Cause we all know our roster is fungus growing on crap. What if Shanny trades Luck for a BOATLOAD of 1st rounders and maybe other round picks, and restocks our roster, but STILL gets a quarterback in the first round ala Barkley, Jones, RGIII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 we have 12 picks next draft. id trade them all for andrew luck, sign Vjax or Dwayne Bowe, sign the best OL available that fits our scheme, and sign as many UDFA lineman and hope one of them pans out. ill call that a 100% A+ offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I have a question for everybody here...What would you guys do, if we lost out the season, was able to get the 1st overall pick. and Shanny traded Luck for 4 first round picks. Cause we all know our roster is fungus growing on crap. What if Shanny trades Luck for a BOATLOAD of 1st rounders and maybe other round picks, and restocks our roster, but STILL gets a quarterback in the first round ala Barkley, Jones, RGIII Still get one of the others? I'd be all for it. 4 1sts is heavy cheese my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins199021 Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 though at the same time if rg3 and barkley come out and we are top 5-10 were probably better off picking one of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman21ST Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I have a question for everybody here...What would you guys do, if we lost out the season, was able to get the 1st overall pick. and Shanny traded Luck for 4 first round picks. Cause we all know our roster is fungus growing on crap. What if Shanny trades Luck for a BOATLOAD of 1st rounders and maybe other round picks, and restocks our roster, but STILL gets a quarterback in the first round ala Barkley, Jones, RGIII I know what you're getting at, but it's a slightly different situation. In your scenario, we would then have multiple first round picks in the years to come. I still would have wanted Luck, but I wouldn't hammer Shanny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I know what you're getting at, but it's a slightly different situation. In your scenario, we would then have multiple first round picks in the years to come. I still would have wanted Luck, but I wouldn't hammer Shanny. I felt it from him too but I'm not in love with Luck. I'm in love with the B&G. 4 firsts, 8 in 4 years with one of them being a top end first round talent signal caller; I'd be all for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
issapunk Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I have a question for everybody here...What would you guys do, if we lost out the season, was able to get the 1st overall pick. and Shanny traded Luck for 4 first round picks. Cause we all know our roster is fungus growing on crap. What if Shanny trades Luck for a BOATLOAD of 1st rounders and maybe other round picks, and restocks our roster, but STILL gets a quarterback in the first round ala Barkley, Jones, RGIII Then I would say we would have accomplished what will take us a few years to do in less than half the time. We would be able to rebuild twice as fast and get RGIII? I'm down with that. I'm also down with getting a future hall of famer. Either way, it's good for the Redskins if that happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I have a question for everybody here...What would you guys do, if we lost out the season, was able to get the 1st overall pick. and Shanny traded Luck for 4 first round picks. Cause we all know our roster is fungus growing on crap. What if Shanny trades Luck for a BOATLOAD of 1st rounders and maybe other round picks, and restocks our roster, but STILL gets a quarterback in the first round ala Barkley, Jones, RGIII A 'BOATLOAD' of first rounders and better, plus a very good QB; or just an exceptional QB. It's a win/win which ever way you cut it, so I'd be down with either. (Even though it would be hard as Hell to give Luck up if he was in our grasp.). Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 sign Vjax or Dwayne Bowe, sign the best OL available that fits our scheme I can't see too many top free agents wanting to sign here if this season continues on it current path. Unless of course they want to come here just to be paid, which is a culture that we are trying to move on from. And if its not for the money, we else would they sign here. We ain't going to win anytime soon, so we will need to be more dependant on the draft....and keep our picks - not trade them away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
authentic Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I guess what annoys me about this topic is people looking for simple solutions to complex problems. It is that sort of thinking that has gotten us to this point.I don't disagree that you need good play from the QB position to be successful as a team. But, that doesn't happen in a vacuum. That happens because the QB is put in an environment where he can succeed. That includes being put in a system that suites his abilities, surrounded by players who can fulfil the promise. Even then, you might not succeed. (See: Dan Marino) Success being the Super Bowl. Do we need to draft a QB to be successful? I think so. Do we need Luck specifically? No. As shown above, there are many QBs not named Payton Manning who have won SBs in the past decade. Thank you!! This is exactly the way i feel about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I can't see too many top free agents wanting to sign here if this season continues on it current path.Unless of course they want to come here just to be paid' date=' which is a culture that we are trying to move on from. And if its not for the money, we else would they sign here. We ain't going to win anytime soon, so we will need to be more dependant on the draft....and keep our picks - not trade them away.[/quote'] free agents care about money, and we always have boatloads of it. this is a huge football town, we have a big time coach, and if we draft a big time QB (which will be promised to whatever FA WR we bring in) theyll be happy. so, Vjax or Dbowe, andrew luck, sign some lineman, and yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allannis Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Thank you!! This is exactly the way i feel about it. I agree:point2sky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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