Poll: How concerned are you about Trent Williams?

[GoDeep81]

So two sacks in four games,

They've played 5 this season, with him giving up 4 sacks at least..

Perception completely trumps reality around here, doesn't it...

Apparently so..

I'm just trying to figure out what reason Mike would have to lie about Trent coming into camp in shape and motivated. .

Probably none, in which case his performance is even more concerning to me (and others).. I could really care less what they say about the players shape and motivation, it's their performance that matters..

[Going Commando]

Giants were without Tuck and Osi and it doesn't get any easier this week with Dockett, Porter, Campbell, and Hagans... And in week 3 D. Ware. He had a terrible game and we won, I'm happy with the W but he needs to step up his game.

No he didn't. As far as I can tell he had three bad series that I've documented. That does not a terrible game make. Especially since he looked pretty beast on the three series in which we scored plus the fourth where we should have made the field goal. And one of the series he got roughed up on he was hurt.

[KCClybun]

No he didn't. As far as I can tell he had three bad series that I've documented. That does not a terrible game make. Especially since he looked pretty beast on the three series in which we scored plus the fourth where we should have made the field goal. And one of the series he got roughed up on he was hurt.

I keep telling people to actually go back and watch Trent play. I posted the videos of his pass attempts but no comment.

[SkinsFTW]

Shanahan said it himself that the Guard should be in position to where those inside moves aren't available so maybe it's not just Trent giving up 2 sacks and maybe people don't understand how this OL is supposed to work.

[RedskinsInFebruary]

No he didn't. As far as I can tell he had three bad series that I've documented. That does not a terrible game make.

I think it does, especially when your QB ends up getting sacked or mauled. LT is a critical QB protection position.

since he looked pretty beast on the three series in which we scored plus the fourth where we should have made the field goal. And one of the series he got roughed up on he was hurt.

[RandyHolt]

we dont know the line calls, for one. But I think consensus is that he has had his struggles. And consensus is that he faces a parade of total studs week after week, an extremely difficult position to play. So we try to find the middle ground.

I long suspected Rabach was horrible at blitz pickup calls but I could never prove it. I would just watch jail breaks on our QB, while our defense would always get picked up, over and over, for years now.

I believe he can always be tried at RT and Brown at LT if Rex is getting killed. People counter, but Brown struggled too!

Arent they both out of their natural positions???

[justice98]

He gave up two sacks versus the Colts and no sacks in the three other games. So two sacks in four games, and three games where he may have given up pressure but no sacks, makes him have a bad preseason?

Perception completely trumps reality around here, doesn't it...

I'm just trying to figure out what reason Mike would have to lie about Trent coming into camp in shape and motivated. How many players has he lied about? Has there been a guy here (besides McNabb, maybe) that Mike has given praise to when they didn't deserve it, ever? Every problem child we had last year; when did we ever hear Mike say Fat Al was great when he was sucking, or Devin Thomas, or anyone.

Hell, even with McNabb, I heard him say more flowery things about Michael Vick and Sam Bradford than I ever heard him say about McNabb. (Speaks volumes when you're coach openly commends pretty much every quarterback except the one that plays for him).

I trust Mike not to BS the media and fans about a player, and I trust my eyes as well. I know he got beat on two sacks. I also know he didn't struggle nearly as badly as people claim he did throughout the rest of the game. Would he blast Trent if he came in out of shape? No. But would he commend him for coming into camp in shape and finally being a pro, after more or less putting him on front street by saying he needed to learn how to be a pro at the end of last season? No. Nothing in Mike's make-up suggests he would do that.

Sacks are sometimes overrated as the end all be all of pass protection. If the QB is having to avoid his man and do what he doesn't want to do, that's something to be noted almost as much as flat out getting beat for sacks.

[eyeball]

he's not even close....to where he was drafted.....not even close.....he's a bust right now....

[Loyal2Washington]

I keep telling people to actually go back and watch Trent play. I posted the videos of his pass attempts but no comment.

So I went back re-watched the game and this is what I saw. It was a little more then the 2-3 bad plays a game I continue to hear from some. Trent had 11 total plays in which his play alone had a negative outcome on the play. 7 plays including the play in which he got hurt and 4 plays after the injury. Here is a breakdown with the quarter and time it happened so you can reference for yourself if you have the game saved.

1st- 6:01- Stretch run, TW pushed back from 17-19 forcing Hightower to cutback inside for no gain

1st- 00:07- Stretch run, TW pushed back from 43-46 JPP makes a 1 yard loss tackle.

2nd- 13:32- Stretch right, TW misses cut block on DT allowing DT to penetrate and force Hightower to bounce outside for a 2 yard gain. A ton of green behind said DT could have been a huge run.

3rd- 9:39- Stretch run, TW pushed back from the 40-42 Hightower forced to cut outside for 1 yard gain

3rd- 8:55- Pass Pro, TW beaten just as badly as the 2 sacks he gives up later except Hightower makes the save with pass pro help, with no Hightower Rex is easily sacked.

3rd- 2:41- Stretch run, TW pushed back from 30-32, Hightower does a great job avoiding a JPP -3 run and gains a yard for his effort.

3rd- 2:01- Pass Pro, Just gets destroyed by JPP, gives up the sack and hurts knee in process

4th- 13:12- Pass Pro, Gets owned by JPP and Rex gets sacked and fumbles

4th- 10:12- Stretch run, TW pushed back from 42-44, no where to go for Hightower -1 rush

4th- 7:51- Stretch run, TW pushed back 34-37 and basically in Helu's lap at handoff. Helu makes quick cut inside for 2, good effort run by Helu

4th- 5:12- Pass pro, Gets beat horribly and holds JPP like he was Orakpo, no flag for holding and Rex To Gaffney TD happens. So I don't know if we can continue to scream about Rak getting held after watching that attempt at Pass Pro.

Now to be fair every other OL that day did absolutely no better then TW.

[Metskins]

Good poll options with clearly worded opinions.

I'm concerned. He seems to lack conditioning and focus. I still think it comes down to technique with him...which again points back to focus.

[skinfan2k]

Loyal2Washington is right. The TV doesn't do justice whatsoever how bad TW played. Watching an aerial view of the play at Fedex, he was getting owned a lot and not just in pass plays. He was unable to beat his guy off the line.

[Loyal2Washington]

Loyal2Washington is right. The TV doesn't do justice whatsoever how bad TW played. Watching an aerial view of the play at Fedex, he was getting owned a lot and not just in pass plays. He was unable to beat his guy off the line.

There were also 3 plays were TW was at least a beat late coming off the ball at the snap.

[rk3025]

Signed for big bucks and did not stay in shape.

Will get on atraining kick by the middle of the year.

[Cpt.Chaos47]

At this point Im unsure, but concern is building. Hopefully he will get together. For the most part Shanny has been on point with his draft picks hopefully he's right about this one.

[smurfs86]

Very worried. I'm no expert in football, but I can clearly tell when someone is getting beat badly and that's exactly what was happening to Trent on Sunday. I really hope he can get it together because I cringe to see what might happen when he faces Ware on that Dallas D in a couple weeks. It might end up being a Monday Night Massacre

[hunterx]

He is still only 17 games into his career. I don't like what I am seeing so far with the mental lapses (slow off the ball, wiffing on defenders simple swim moves). If there's little improvement, I am sure we'll bring in an OT to challenge him. Or, maybe Jamaal Brown can challenge him as the season goes on...

[Going Commando]

Mike Shanahan and Trent Williams don't agree with the detractors.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/post/trent-williams-encouraged-by-week-1-outing/2011/09/15/gIQAAAmoUK_blog.html?wprss=football-insider

Trent Williams encouraged by Week 1 outing

By Mike Jones

Fans may believe that left tackle Trent Williams struggled at times against the New York Giants on Sunday, but the second-year pro said he feels pretty good about his Week 1 performance.

“Week 1 went well for me,” said Williams, whom Washington drafted fourth overall in 2010. “After watching the film and reviewing everything, I felt good.”

Giants defensive end Jason Pierre-Paul recorded two sacks and a forced fumble last week, facing off primarily with Williams. But Williams didn’t come away overly impressed.

“He didn’t wow me, if that’s what you’re asking,” Williams said. “He’s a great player. He came in and did his job. He was alright.”

Late in the game, Pierre-Paul dipped inside Williams’ right shoulder rather than rushing around the edge and slipped between Williams and guard Kory Lichtensteiger. He sacked Rex Grossman and forced a fumble that the Giants recovered in Redskins’ territory.

Williams said Pierre-Paul’s play was the result of miscommunication, not an inability to execute.

“It was a protection issue more than him beating me,” Williams said. “Like I said, anybody can go in there and not get blocked and go tackle the quarterback. We kinda messed up protection. We didn’t really touch him. It was just a misunderstanding between me and the guard. That’s all it was. I expected him to be there and he was there for someone else. It was just little things. It’s just football. You get things like that worked out.”

When asked about Williams’ play on Sunday, Redskins coach Mike Shanahan said he saw significant improvements.

“I thought Trent has made tremendous strides from last year,” the coach said. “He’s going to be a good football player. He just has to work every week to get better and better. But I’ve seen tremendous strides just going from one year to the next, just going through this preseason. Hopefully, he’ll keep on getting better.”

The other sack Williams surrendered was clearly the result of him losing his balance immediately upon hyper extending his knee. He falls over and JPP goes straight to the QB. It's one of those freak situations that you can't forsee. His technique was solid. Hand placement and punch were good. Pad level and knee bend was good. Kick step was proper depth. Every on field motion has a ton of moving parts and when you factor in heavy contact at high speeds, things are bound to go wrong and unlikely injuries occur. I don't fault him too heavily for the result of that play, and it's not something that's likely to recur down the line.

Say he stays healthy and upright on that play and Trent and Kory get that block figured out correctly instead of letting JPP through. Then you're looking at a day where he stoned all comers in pass pro. And then threads like this wouldn't exist.

[KCClybun]

I defer to the coaches in this case.

Of course most in this thread think Mike's simply lying to protect his investment, so, whatever.

[ThePreciating]

I have to think Mike is lying to protect his investment.

Offensive line play is like counter-terrorism. The DL has to be right ONCE, the OL has to be right EVERY TIME.

Trent put our QB at risk of being lost for the season on at least two occasions, and probably 3 since I don't believe Kory Lichtensteiger was supposed to handle JPP by himself, no matter what Shanahan says.

I loved the pick when we made it, and I'm still hopeful, but good teams don't get beat on the blindside more than maybe once a game.

[Supreme Wu]

I dont like him!

[Going Commando]

I have to think Mike is lying to protect his investment.

Offensive line play is like counter-terrorism. The DL has to be right ONCE, the OL has to be right EVERY TIME.

Trent put our QB at risk of being lost for the season on at least two occasions, and probably 3 since I don't believe Kory Lichtensteiger was supposed to handle JPP by himself, no matter what Shanahan says.

I loved the pick when we made it, and I'm still hopeful, but good teams don't get beat on the blindside more than maybe once a game.

How does lying protect his investment in Trent? If he thought Trent played like crap what's so damaging about him saying Trent struggled or needed to step up or make adjustments? Mike has criticized him openly to the media plenty of times in the past.

Go back and watch the sack FF. It was a blown protection plain as day. Trent released JPP inside to Kory not realizing he was already engaged. Believe what you want I guess.

Your reasoning about offensive line needing to never get beat is both facile and unrealistic. There are 65+ snaps every game and no one snap makes or breaks a game obviously. Great offensive linemen get beat and give up pressures every single game, sometimes multiple pressures but still get a positive grade for the day. QBs take a couple sacks a game on average and get pressured many many more times.

You're spitballing with your DL only has to be right once analogy. By that same reasoning a piss poor day from an OT can be erased if he crushes his assigment once and the QB throws an 80 yard bomb for the game winning score. No. No one play or series ever makes or breaks a game.

[Swift]

Mike Shanahan and Trent Williams don't agree with the detractors.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/post/trent-williams-encouraged-by-week-1-outing/2011/09/15/gIQAAAmoUK_blog.html?wprss=football-insider

The other sack Williams surrendered was clearly the result of him losing his balance immediately upon hyper extending his knee. He falls over and JPP goes straight to the QB. It's one of those freak situations that you can't forsee. His technique was solid. Hand placement and punch were good. Pad level and knee bend was good. Kick step was proper depth. Every on field motion has a ton of moving parts and when you factor in heavy contact at high speeds, things are bound to go wrong and unlikely injuries occur. I don't fault him too heavily for the result of that play, and it's not something that's likely to recur down the line.

Say he stays healthy and upright on that play and Trent and Kory get that block figured out correctly instead of letting JPP through. Then you're looking at a day where he stoned all comers in pass pro. And then threads like this wouldn't exist.

Interesting article, thanks for posting.

[ThePreciating]

Go back and watch the sack FF. It was a blown protection plain as day. Trent released JPP inside to Kory not realizing he was already engaged. Believe what you want I guess.

Your reasoning about offensive line needing to never get beat is both facile and unrealistic. There are 65+ snaps every game and no one snap makes or breaks a game obviously. Great offensive linemen get beat and give up pressures every single game, sometimes multiple pressures but still get a positive grade for the day. QBs take a couple sacks a game on average and get pressured many many more times.

You're spitballing with your DL only has to be right once analogy. By that same reasoning a piss poor day from an OT can be erased if he crushes his assigment once and the QB throws an 80 yard bomb for the game winning score. No. No one play or series ever makes or breaks a game.

I don't see how JPP gets released inside to Lichtensteiger. I certainly hope a similar scheme isn't in the works against D. Ware.

Giving up a few pressures is one thing. Giving an unfettered path to a QB is completely different.

[Going Commando]

I don't see how JPP gets released inside to Lichtensteiger. I certainly hope a similar scheme isn't in the works against D. Ware.

What's to disagree about? Trent straight up says what the protection call was (or at least what he thought it was) in the article. Why would he lie about that? When you watch the replays it's clear Trent thinks he's supposed to cover the outside move instead of blocking down because he assumes Lichtensteiger will cover the inside move. He barely reacts when JPP goes inside, disengages, and keeps his eyes down field until he realizes no one is going to pick JPP up.

Who blew the protection actually called is anyone's guess. If Trent blew it than it's a miscommunication or recognition issue which isn't a big deal compared to an issue of being able to anchor against inside rushes. If Kory blew it then it's the same deal. Those are problems that get worked out with experience and repetition.

Help blocking is a fundamental part of pass protection in a zone blocking scheme. Every passing playcall has some sort of help designed into the protection. That's what blocking in zones means. Why would we abandon our scheme when we play DeMarcus Ware?

Giving up a few pressures is one thing. Giving an unfettered path to a QB is completely different.

A pressure is a pressure, I don't understand what the distinction you're creating is. Are you saying giving up a pressure isn't as bad as giving up a sack? That'd be obvious, since sacks are usually graded as particularly damaging pressures. Both come as a result of a type of mistake an OL makes and whether a pressure becomes a sack or not has little to do with him on his end after he makes that mistake.

You're complaint seems to be that Trent looked awful because JPP got clean looks on his two sacks. Most sacks come that way, but I disagree with your point. The reasons why Trent gave up those sacks are plain and don't come from a lack of ability. On the first he got hurt on a routine protection and fell down. On the second he released the pressure to his help inside instead of blocking down. The guard was already engaged with another pass rusher when Trent thought the rusher was supposed to rotate to his help and Trent takes any outside move and blitzers/stunters if they come. They didn't come as a result of him lacking quickness or strength or agility. It was a mental mistake on either his or Kory's part that they can learn from and iron out.

[Loyal2Washington]

Hey like any other Redskin player debate you are going to have those that are on one side of the fence or the other. At this point all arguments have been exhausted and it's Friday before the Cards game. Lets just let it end now and hope that Trent Williams plays the way WE ALL want him to and help lead the team to a 2-0 start.