Destino Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Rex Grossman 34/53 64.2% 407yards 7.7avg 2TD 1int 2sacks 0fumbles 92.26rating 0 yards rushing 0 attempts John Beck 30/48 62.5% 356yards 7.4avg 1TD 2int 4sacks 0fumbles 74.65rating 20 yards rushing 4 attempts *Rating calculated on http://brucey.net/nflab/statistics/qb_rating.html I'm surprised to see Grossman win on every single passing statistic. I thought Beck would end up the more accurate of the two. Clearly there is more to consider in choosing the starter than stats as these don't account for drops, YAC, and decision making like the film will. That said results are the only things that do matter on game day and thus can't be discounted. I posted a new thread to avoid having to seed these figures in every one outdated Rex v John debate that has been raging for weeks. The final numbers are important IMO and people can use them as they wish. If mods disagree, I won't get upset about it. If I were choosing a starter wanting to win this year it would be Rex Grossman. Feel free to check my math (as it's been a long day) Grossman comp att pct yrds avg td int sck fumble rating 19 26 73.1% 207 8.0 1 0 0 0 7 12 58.3% 88 7.3 0 1 1 0 8 15 53.3% 112 7.5 1 0 1 0 Total 34 53 64.2% 407 7.7 2 1 2 0 92.26 Beck comp att pct yrds avg td int sck fumble rating 14 17 82.4% 140 8.2 0 0 3 0 6 10 60.0% 108 10.8 1 1 0 0 10 21 47.6% 108 5.1 0 1 1 0 Total 30 48 62.5% 356 7.4 1 2 4 0 74.65 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terpskins10 Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 The numbers say Grossman by a lot, but I still think Shanny will give strong consideration to Beck just based on the "upside" factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlanta Skins Fan Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 John Beck 0funble. He had 0 funbles, but did fumble a snap on his big TD drive tonight. Just sayin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunterx Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 I agree, after all is said and done, I want to see Grossman against the Giants. Becky is more mobile, but he somehow got sacked more. Also, he didn't impress me at all against the Buccs 2nd and 3rd string defense. I understand he didn't have Santana Moss, Fred Davis, Hightower or Gaffney; he still seemed to make poor throws and possibly reads. I think there were two opportunities for the Buccs to get a clean interception. Can someone break down his sacks? Was it because he was on his 3rd or 4th read too slow, or did the line just break down? I like Beck's potential, but I think he should sit until Grossman eff's up. With the Giants secondary weak, Grossman should be able to take advantage of that. The Cardinals secondary is banged up as well. Either way..bring on the G-Men. Our defense will win us games. On a side note, I wish Banks didn't return so well tonight. I wanted to see Stallworth and Paul have a shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
braindx Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 I posted this in the other thread but it's about comparison in performance which fits this topic: All I really saw was both QBs performing terribly with the 2nd string WRs (Grossman in the Colts game, and Beck in this game). Lots of overthrowing and missed timings/communications. Beck seems to have a good connection with Austin, but otherwise he hasn't been able to hit Paul or any of the other 2nd string WRs real well either. Remember that when he played with 2nd stringers for a series in the Ravens game and he pretty much solely went to Austin. I think Becks poor performance was worse than Grossman's in the Colts game. However, it seems our starting OL this game was just plain terrible especially against 2nd stringers (could be cause they didn't game plan any this game but still.... starting OL should not be that terrible against backups). Beck's positive performances were slightly better than Grossman's overall (more scoring drives even when you count miss FG) aside from Grossman's nice 2 minute drill. If it was a dead heat going into this game I think Rex has the job. If the Shanahan's feel that Beck's roll out and running skills + connection with the first string WR are still superior to what Grossman offers I think he starts. They will probably just avoid having him in the pocket as much since he didn't look comfortable there if he starts against the Giants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted September 2, 2011 Author Share Posted September 2, 2011 He had 0 funbles, but did fumble a snap on his big TD drive tonight. Just sayin'. lol fixed that typo. I'm just going on what the stats say but they are sometimes strange during and immediately after preseason games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 I've seen Grossman as the likely starter since the moment he signed. He threw for nearly 900 yards, 7 TDs and 4 INTs in three starts for us last year. He's fine at QB. This preseason he remains my pick, though I see why there's a shine on Beck. Beck is better at keeping ahead of the chains, allowing for YAC due to taking shorter, open stuff and possibly is a factor in the running game given his mobility and resultant need for the defensive end to respect the bootleg a bit more than with Rex. Honestly, I think Beck appears to be more of a game manager type QB that can handle a very talented team and not screw it up. Grossman may have more "upside" to lift a team with limits and create something with it from time to time. In the end Grossman should start, but, Beck accounted well for himself and has made me believe he's more plausible as a player than I had anticipated leading in to the preseason. All around that's a good thing for a team that really can't say it likely has real strength at the position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoRUSupposed2Be Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 I've seen Grossman as the likely starter since the moment he signed.He threw for nearly 900 yards, 7 TDs and 4 INTs in three starts for us last year. He's fine at QB. This preseason he remains my pick, though I see why there's a shine on Beck. Beck is better at keeping ahead of the chains, allowing for YAC due to taking shorter, open stuff and possibly is a factor in the running game given his mobility and resultant need for the defensive end to respect the bootleg a bit more than with Rex. Honestly, I think Beck appears to be more of a game manager type QB that can handle a very talented team and not screw it up. Grossman may have more "upside" to lift a team with limits and create something with it from time to time. In the end Grossman should start, but, Beck accounted well for himself and has made me believe he's more plausible as a player than I had anticipated leading in to the preseason. All around that's a good thing for a team that really can't say it likely has real strength at the position. I like what you said... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azbear Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 I think you saw tonight more of what John Beck is. Probably somehwere in between of what you saw against the Colts/Ravens and tonight. You know he's not going to complete 80% of his passes. He made some awful reads tonight. Based on the whole pre-season, I cannot see how you can go against Grossman. 1. You KNOW you can win with him. He's been a winning player before, and in all 3 of his starts last year, it went down to the final drive. 2. He really had no extreme ups and downs this pre-season. He was very solid, against 2 solid defenses. 3. The knock on Rex has always been his turnovers. He limited them all pre-season, got the ball out quick, and generally made good fast decisions. While Beck may be more mobile, he has hung onto the ball too long on a number different situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 You start Rex and if he falters you go to Beck with 0 pressure. having the bye week early helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jivelikenice Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 While Beck struggled today, I think he showed why the coaches like him. His mobility and footwork in the pockets is impressive. He makes subtle moves and has a quick delivery so he can avoid the rush and still make a quick throw downfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlanta Skins Fan Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Beck look shell-shocked to me, much of the game. I surmised that he did not take well to being named the starter while Grossman sat, and that possibly this was a late-breaking disclosure to the QBs. That's just a guess, but if I have it right, we might have seen how a very stressed Beck deals with pressure. He stared down almost every receiver from the snap, made bad reads, bad throws, and hurried a throw into the end zone for an INT, rather than stand in against the rush. Mixed in with these plays were some very outstanding plays: some great passes, and some nimbleness when rushed or on the rollout. Very inconsistent. For me, the bad impressions outweighed the good. I was surprised by the performance in context (playing against backups), but I did see what I expected to see if Beck were a starter in the regular season. I think Beck is a better QB than he looked tonight, but I never believed he'd hold up under real pressure. IMO, the bad plays tonight were partly the internal pressure of feeling his opportunity slip away. I think the decision was made a long time ago to start Grossman. However, tonight's game will probably bring fan support together behind Grossman. Fans may not all like Grossman, but pulling for Beck to start is simply not seeing what's happening on the field. Beck's got great tools and nice personal qualities, but he's not NFL starter material. In my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 To be fair, Beck was throwing to 2nd/3rd team receivers tonight and the starting OL was...inconsistent at best(even against Tampa's 2nd team defense). Beck when playing with ALL starters looked a lot better. Still, I get a better feeling from Rex. He has just looked better to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 If this was indeed an open competition, Beck sure hasn't helped himself. On performance alone, there is no contest. But then you have practices we've not seen, and who they feel fits best. I honestly wouldn't like to say who get's the gig. I guess we'll find out next Monday or Tuesday. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlkyCaramel Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 And after all of those stats, I would still choose to start Beck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 To be fair, Beck was throwing to 2nd/3rd team receivers tonight and the starting OL was...inconsistent at best(even against Tampa's 2nd team defense). Beck when playing with ALL starters looked a lot better.Still, I get a better feeling from Rex. He has just looked better to me. But Warhead, you can also think Shanny was thinking I threw out the starting line out there, and now show me when u don't have your top weapons out there. He is a QB that needs a solid support system around him, Rex will throw regardless of who is out there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlkyCaramel Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 But Warhead, you can also think Shanny was thinking I threw out the starting line out there, and now show me when u don't have your top weapons out there. He is a QB that needs a solid support system around him, Rex will throw regardless of who is out there Erm, like he did against the Colts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant15fromNJ Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 I vote REX! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Erm, like he did against the Colts? Rex still threw the ball, its not scared. he came in last year and had 900 yards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DGREENHULK Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Thanks Destino good stuff....your hard work confirms what my eyes witnessed that Rex out played Beck overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newera Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Both will play this year. No doubt. Rex should start, and I'm a Beck guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 I think its important to view the stats in relation to how they were acquired. People often forget the context. People forget that in Rex's solid 1st preseason game our starting unit played the half against a Steelers unit that came off the field by the 2nd quarter. Tonights game the starting WRs were Armstrong who appeared only to play in the 1st series and Niles Paul. Neither Chris Cooley or Fred Davis dressed out. Torain was in the backfield getting his 1st work of the preseason. Obviously there was gonna be continuity and performance drop off. The apples to apples comparison of tonight's personnel match-ups would be equivalent to Rex and the second unit vs. the Colts second unit and we all know how that turned out. This preseason should be a reminder that the QB is largely dependent upon their supporting cast for success. If people are judging the stats don't forget the context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 This preseason should be a reminder that the QB is largely dependent upon their supporting cast for success. Average to mediocre ones like we have, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 I like Beck's footwork and elusiveness.. he keeps his eyes downfield, and he has very good pocket awareness.. in preseason. I like that they tell me he won't make mistakes, but we'll see on that. I know Rex will, sometimes unbelievably inexplicable WTF mistakes. I like Beck's accuracy, even if tonight it didn't look good. He's shown that he can fire it on a laser to a guy's fingertips in stride, and I like that. Rex can be very accurate as well, and when he is Good rex he makes food decisions and good throws. I don't like Beck's tendency to sidearm and throw low. i think he's going to get balls batted back. Rex's passes remind me of Billy Kilmer.. not for any duck wobble,, they're just ugly. Sometimes they don't look like thye have any juice on them and they seem to float right in to the receiver. I think that both of them work the short and intermediate game about the same, pretty good. Whichever one can synch up with Armstrong is going to get some deep Sportscenter TDs. Again tonight Skittles is two steps beyond evveryone in the first quarter and is overthrown. (Beats underthrown, though. ) However, I do like the idea of a funble. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinklein Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Did Beck score once inside the redzone? I suppose he had the WR screen to Austin, but that doesn't show much in terms of Quarterbacking ability... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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