John Beck v Rex Grossman Preseason 2011. FINAL NUMBERS

[TheShredder]

Should be very interesting as to who starts next week! Just watching the guys I feel like Beck would be a better overall leader and i love the fact that hes working/talking to Brees and Rodgers all the time. Really wanna see what he can do with all the starters and against a pretty good D. I hope he gets the start.

But if he doesn't i know Rex will be ok for us

I still think that they knew what Rex would give and produce....and he did. However, they didn't know and still don't know, what the ceiling is with John Beck. I really don't think they got the answers they were looking for and still don't have them. They're really not going to get the answers until it's week 1. Unless Beck falls completely flat on his face, he's got more upside. He's got more possibilities to exceed the ceiling that's Rex Grossman. Basically the coaches have nothing to loose by giving Beck a chance to roll. If he goes into the Giants game and leads a week 1 victory against an NFC rival...What does that do to this team?!

Now, if Rex goes and leads the team to a victory in week 1...What does that do to this team??

The amount of upside to all that John Beck is for this team and the confidence and momentum that will manifest with the same results by either guy is win win for MS and KS in managing the team. It's almost a not even close when you factor in all the other points. Remember that Rex didn't sign right away? He wanted starter money. He held out to see if he could get starter money from the Skins. It wasn't happening. They told his agent that they would go with Beck and that they liked him and were prepared to go into week 1 with Beck as their starter. and actually, that's exactly what they will do until Beck shows he can't hack it.

[skinfan2k]

Beck had some terrible throws including the one to open up the game to AA, a lot of passes that were flat and were not even over the DLines,

[mbws]

Tonight, especially, but somewhat in the Pitt and B'more games also, Beck seems to get a bit flustered when things aren't going his way. He'll force passes, make poor reads, and just plain be "off." Give me the guy who said publicly taht he believes his team is capable of winning the NFC East.

Beck did not even play in the Pittsburgh game.

[Botched]

I feel like I'm going crazy. Where any of you watching the same game I was last night? If so theirs no way in hell I'd ever want Beck to start for my team let alone be a back up. Hell, Clemens looked better than Beck did.

I'm crazy too. I haven't been impressed with Beck at all, even before last night. He just doesn't look like a starting QB to me. I'd say he's a marginal backup at best.

[Oldfan]

Beck did not even play in the Pittsburgh game.

He must have looked flustered on the bench.

[SlkyCaramel]

He must have looked flustered on the bench.

Hilarious! LOL!

[ADF]

I don't think either guy is good enough to hold the job for all 16 games. Both will play this season. Shanahan is very demanding on his QBs. That's why he doesn't have the best relationship with a few of his former QBs. Both guys better have thick skin. They'll have to watch their back all season. The fans aren't going to make things easy either.

[skinsfan4128]

Personally, I just haven't seen enough to feel comfortable with Beck as the stater on 9/11. Though he has had some flashes, it hasn't been consistent (cue last night's highlights and numbers). Rex simply has outdueled him and deserves the nod. However, make no mistake that Shanny will keep Rex on a short leash. At the end of the day though, Rex possesses a better all-around game than Beck as of right now.

[War Paint]

Personally, I just haven't seen enough to feel comfortable with Beck as the stater on 9/11. Though he has had some flashes, it hasn't been consistent (cue last night's highlights and numbers). Rex simply has outdueled him and deserves the nod. However, make no mistake that Shanny will keep Rex on a short leash. At the end of the day though, Rex possesses a better all-around game than Beck as of right now.

I'm fine with Rex or Beck. I do lean towards Beck because I think he might have a higher ceiling. However, I disagree about Rex being the clear winner. Rex looked very good against the Steelers. He didn't look so good against the Colts backups. Rex didn't look too sharp at the start of the Ravens game. It wasn't until late in the 2nd qt when Rex got a good drive going.

[MLiverpool]

I was sold on John Beck until yesterday. Grossman is better in the pocket (IMO). Beck has shown to be better on bootlegs and his scrambling speed. That being said, its like John Beck is a very poor version of Michael Vick. Teams would just focus on keeping him in the pocket and I fear he'd cost us games. I'd give the ball to Grossman, and continue to develop John Beck (well, maybe, he is 30..which is younger than me, but old by the NFL standards).

[ouvan59]

Based upon the fact that Grossman didn't see the field at all tonight, I think he'll be the man vs the Giants. IMO, they're already gameplanning for the opener and Grossman may be the guy who gives them the best chance to win. Although I could be wrong. :whoknows:

That's my take as well. I'm not buying the "We wanted to get them an equal number of throws" argument. If this was still a nip and tuck competition Grossman would have been out there IMO. Either way Beck sure didn't help himself last night. He made about five throws that were pretty bad. I also think he got screwed a couple times by the receivers running the wrong routes (Niles Paul had a couple if memory serves me).

[TheShredder]

I was sold on John Beck until yesterday. Grossman is better in the pocket (IMO). Beck has shown to be better on bootlegs and his scrambling speed. That being said, its like John Beck is a very poor version of Michael Vick. Teams would just focus on keeping him in the pocket and I fear he'd cost us games. I'd give the ball to Grossman, and continue to develop John Beck (well, maybe, he is 30..which is younger than me, but old by the NFL standards).

See, that's exactly what Beck brings to the table that Rex doesn't. If they try to seal off the boot, built into that play is the resulting first down...That is why Rex doesn't have the same effect on this system of ZBS and bootleg play action medium range possession football. What don't you guys get? If any team game plans for Rex, they have plenty of tape to beat him at what he does. Rex will have to be more accurate than he is capable of. The result will be 1:1 TD/INT ratio. No guess work here. The reverse is that Beck, #1 has very little tape in this system. #2 Beck is playing very well in this system. #3 He has more athletic ability than Rex. #4 He can scramble and roll out better than Rex. #5 MS has nothing to loose by starting Beck.

Beck get's the start week 1 without any argument until after the game. If he tanks they will pull him without hesitation and he will never get another shot in the NFL.

[ouvan59]

Almost identical numbers. Beck still needs a little more seasoning. But if we have to roll with Beck as the backup, I do not expect a large dropoff in play.

I'm with this. I feel a hell of a lot better about our QB situation than I did a month ago. Beck had a bad game last night. It happens. But he never looked like he was in over his head.

[seniorskin]

Rex Grossman

34/53 64.2% 407yards 7.7avg 2TD 1int 2sacks 0fumbles 92.26rating

0 yards rushing 0 attempts

John Beck

30/48 62.5% 356yards 7.4avg 1TD 2int 4sacks 0fumbles 74.65rating

20 yards rushing 4 attempts

*Rating calculated on http://brucey.net/nflab/statistics/qb_rating.html

I'm surprised to see Grossman win on every single passing statistic. I thought Beck would end up the more accurate of the two. Clearly there is more to consider in choosing the starter than stats as these don't account for drops, YAC, and decision making like the film will. That said results are the only things that do matter on game day and thus can't be discounted.

I posted a new thread to avoid having to seed these figures in every one outdated Rex v John debate that has been raging for weeks. The final numbers are important IMO and people can use them as they wish. If mods disagree, I won't get upset about it.

If I were choosing a starter wanting to win this year it would be Rex Grossman.

Feel free to check my math (as it's been a long day)

Grossman

comp att pct yrds avg td int sck fumble rating

19 26 73.1% 207 8.0 1 0 0 0

7 12 58.3% 88 7.3 0 1 1 0

8 15 53.3% 112 7.5 1 0 1 0

Total 34 53 64.2% 407 7.7 2 1 2 0 92.26

Beck

comp att pct yrds avg td int sck fumble rating

14 17 82.4% 140 8.2 0 0 3 0

6 10 60.0% 108 10.8 1 1 0 0

10 21 47.6% 108 5.1 0 1 1 0

Total 30 48 62.5% 356 7.4 1 2 4 0 74.65

Link to stats doesn't work

[tiger187126]

He had 0 funbles, but did fumble a snap on his big TD drive tonight. Just sayin'.

usually fumbles on center/qb exchanges are charged(blamed) to the center.

[KDawg]

Honest opinion? I don't care either way. I feel like we have a decent starter regardless.

Personally, I'd rather see the untested start off the year in John Beck... But, I'd be more than fine with the Cannon.

---------- Post added September-2nd-2011 at 10:59 AM ----------

usually fumbles on center/qb exchanges are charged(blamed) to the center.

That doesn't mean it's the center's fault, as I'm sure you understand because you used the word "blamed" in your post. There are so many factors that go into a snap... QB pulling away early, QB not closing his off hand, center not turning the ball correctly... Center not getting the snap on time.

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

I would go with Beck just because we already know what Rex will do. Good Rex is better than Good Beck but I'm not sure if Bad Rex is better than Bad Beck.

[MusicCitySkin]

Beck can't score in the red zone unless the receiver or RB makes the play. Grossman will make the strike and then bang some cheerleaders after the game. I want Sexy Rexy for QB1.

[Oldfan]

Link to stats doesn't work

There is no link to the stats. The link is to the calculator used by the thread starter.

[BADKCLARK]

Beck's rating vs Tampa is almost identical to Grossman's rating vs the Colts.

Both were playing w/ 2s, against 2s.

I'd like someone to honestly say that Grossman would have done better against Tampa than Beck did. Timing was off, due to receivers and backs being scrubs. Even Shanahan commented as such in his post-game conference. "Even if you are off just a hair, you look pretty average. And that's how we looked tonight."

They will evaluate the tape and come to the best conclusion. Beck said there were definitely some shots he'd have back, a great quality in a QB to have introspection like that, and be willing to talk about it. He's not shying away from this challenge, and the leadership he exhibits is tremendous.

People want to find any reason to immediately jump all over Beck for this performance, without looking at everything else that went on. The OLine was reminiscent of Miami in 07'. A complete sieve. Thank goodness for Beck's mobility, as he mad some great sidesteps and got some great throws off, even under the amount of pressure he had. I'd be curious to count the number of hits and hurries he took. The guy is class, all the way, and would be a fantastic rep for Redskins football.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I wanted Beck to win the job coming into the preseason. I thought for a game or two that it might happen. But despite the fact that I've never been a fan of Grossman and was pulling for Beck, I think you have to give it to Rex, fair and square. He outplayed Beck in every aspect but rushing yards this preseason.

[tiger187126]

Honest opinion? I don't care either way. I feel like we have a decent starter regardless.

Personally, I'd rather see the untested start off the year in John Beck... But, I'd be more than fine with the Cannon.

---------- Post added September-2nd-2011 at 10:59 AM ----------

That doesn't mean it's the center's fault, as I'm sure you understand because you used the word "blamed" in your post. There are so many factors that go into a snap... QB pulling away early, QB not closing his off hand, center not turning the ball correctly... Center not getting the snap on time.

oh absolutely, i used to play center.

i'm just saying that on a stat sheet, fumbles during the snap usually don't show up for quarterbacks.

[diehardskinpsoup]

Keepin it real. I was Team Beck since the competition started. Since maybe the 2nd Preseason game, I've kind of known Grossman is the best option. Beck could step right in like Todd Collins did we Campbell got hurt and make a run. I think Grossman will put up much bigger numbers and give us a realistic chance to place 2nd in the NFC East and grab the final WC spot.

[hoosandskinsMUSTwin]

Hope the coaches aren't as torn as I am on this one.

[CrypticVillain]

Put me on the boat as I don't care. I would like Beck to start, but with our receivers, our running backs, and our defense, I think whoever plays QB would be able to be effective.

Team Becksmon!!!!!