CNN: Therapy to change 'feminine' boy created a troubled man, family says

[DRSmith]

Ignorant, Liberal definition: Not agreeing with leftwing thinking when it comes to social issues.

Defining Deviancy Down: Thanks to the Left, Mission Almost accomplished.

Good I guess I should not see any posts from you on sex outside of marriage or before marriage and saying it is good and I guess the babe drafts are off too

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

It was nearly 40 years ago.

I think some of you forget how different is was back then.

But the parents were indeed idiots.

Not to call out LSF, but it must have sucked having to pretend to be something you are not for so many years. I do not envy that at all.

People that are so judgemental to the point of stuff like this are pathetic.

Oh horse****.

If anything, the attempts to "convert" homosexuals have only gotten stronger.

---------- Post added June-9th-2011 at 07:55 AM ----------

Good I guess I should not see any posts from you on sex outside of marriage or before marriage and saying it is good and I guess the babe drafts are off too

You don't seem to get it. The "dirty" things NavyDave are into are perfectly normal and natural. It's everyone else who is a freak.

[Homercles82]

I played with my cousins dolls around that age. Now I can't keep my hands off my wife. Connection? Maybe.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

UCLA, Harvard, doesn't matter who conducted it. It's a philosophy that is indeed being phased out of modern society.

I think actually the opposite is happening.

The Ex-Gay Movement is quite promiment right now.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/8393974/Apple-under-fire-for-gay-conversion-app.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/the-exgay-files-the-bizarre-world-of-gaytostraight-conversion-1884947.html

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_5164921

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2007/october/6.48.html

[No Excuses]

I think actually the opposite is happening.

The Ex-Gay Movement is quite promiment right now.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/8393974/Apple-under-fire-for-gay-conversion-app.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/the-exgay-files-the-bizarre-world-of-gaytostraight-conversion-1884947.html

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_5164921

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2007/october/6.48.html

Only in the social realm it seems.

But credible scientific literature won't be having any nonsense publications that try to link homosexuality to psychological disorders anymore.

[Homercles82]

I think actually the opposite is happening.

The Ex-Gay Movement is quite promiment right now.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/8393974/Apple-under-fire-for-gay-conversion-app.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/the-exgay-files-the-bizarre-world-of-gaytostraight-conversion-1884947.html

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_5164921

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2007/october/6.48.html

I am not sure where you are going with this. You have no way of proving it is more prevalent now then back then. You cannot deny that people's attitudes towards homosexuals has relaxed over the last 40 years. It was career suicide to come out of the closet back then. Now it happens daily.

[Forehead]

Gee, I'm a lesbian and always have been.

You are? I would have never known based on any of your previous posts here

The boy in the story grew up gay.

Why don't you just say that you are happy the queer is dead and move on.

Actually, I think a lot of people in this thread (myself included at first) are making an assumption here that the kid in question was gay. That's never stated anywhere in the story. It mentions that he showed some effeminate tendencies as a kid and played with dolls, but I'm sure tons of young boys do that and are still straight. This "therapy" started very young in his life.

It talks about the therapy and how is messed up his life, and then focuses on the doctor and all the different groups the doctor was involved in, including anti-gay groups. However, this story never once mentions what sort of relationships Kirk Murphy may have had as he got older, only that he was broken from therapy; therapy which may not have even been necessary (speaking from the parents point of view) in the first place, as there was no definitive proof at age five that he was gay. So I think it's a bit of a jump to assert that he was gay or refer to him as a queer, there's no proof he actually was.

Oh, and I'm still not sure why I ever read NavyDave's posts. I have some conservative tendencies, but his posts are just off the deep end sometimes.

[Burgold]

Oh horse****.

If anything' date=' the attempts to "convert" homosexuals have only gotten stronger.

---------- Post added June-9th-2011 at 07:55 AM ----------

You don't seem to get it. The "dirty" things NavyDave are into are perfectly normal and natural. It's everyone else who is a freak.

Interesting question. I suspect that it's more as the greater society becomes more tolerant of homosexuality the anti gay elements appear to become more militant. They just seem louder. For instance, in the 1950's you'd never hear about this because almost no one would ever dare to talk or admit publicly that they have a gay child. The fact that homosexuals are a part of open society means that element that works against them is forced to become louder and move more into the open as well.

Just a guess though.

[zoony]

The only way I'd put my 5 year old in therapy was if he asked for a Cowboys jersey

[No Excuses]

Interesting question. I suspect that it's more as the greater society becomes more tolerant of homosexuality the anti gay elements appear to become more militant. They just seem louder. For instance, in the 1950's you'd never hear about this because almost no one would ever dare to talk or admit publicly that they have a gay child. The fact that homosexuals are a part of open society means that element that works against them is forced to become louder and move more into the open as well.

Just a guess though.

I think they've gotten louder but I also think their social impact has diminished quite a bit. They won't have the backing of bogus science or most of the popular media outlets.

[Hunter44]

I watched an interview with some of the mans family members on AC360 last night and they claimed that he was gay.

[dockeryfan]

And the fact that it was considered cutting edge has what relevance?

cutting edge does not equal backwoods. Academia noes not equal backwoods. Ever. Wrong is wrong, and the approach may be completely off base, but to characterize it as backwoods is incorrect.

[Forehead]

The only way I'd put my 5 year old in therapy was if he asked for a Cowboys jersey

Couldn't you just skip the therapy and just put a stack of red chips on the table? It's going to get to that point anyway.

[No Excuses]

cutting edge does not equal backwoods. Academia noes not equal backwoods. Ever. Wrong is wrong, and the approach may be completely off base, but to characterize it as backwoods is incorrect.

Wouldn't you consider physical and psychological abuse of children backwoods?

Does it really become "cutting edge" if bogus research is backing it up?

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I am not sure where you are going with this. You have no way of proving it is more prevalent now then back then. You cannot deny that people's attitudes towards homosexuals has relaxed over the last 40 years. It was career suicide to come out of the closet back then. Now it happens daily.

It's a double-edged sword. You can now safely live outside the closest and no longer have to deal with your orientation being defined a mental disorder.

On the other hand, there are large, well-funded, well-connected groups dedicated to actively fighting your abilitiy to live freely.

I think that in the 50s and 60s, if a - for example - Souther Baptist family suspected that their son was homosexual, they would likely just ignore it. He would probably be conditioned to hide it as much as possible. And basically, everyone would live a lie for the ensuing decades. Obviously, that leads to its own level of psychological damage.

Today, if that same family suspected that their son was gay, they are allowed to discuss their fears and actually do something about it. Because the fear is that once that child hits 15 or 16, he will realize that there is a free world out for him and he has the choice of acting upon his nature. There are camps you can send him to. There are ministries dedicated to this. The parents can quit being passive agents and take on an active role.

[Burgold]

I think they've gotten louder but I also think their social impact has diminished quite a bit. They won't have the backing of bogus science or most of the popular media outlets.

I think that's true in many circles. In some spheres they probably have gotten more powerful. You know, the "Real American" Super Social Conservative crowd that thinks the U.S. is in decline because we've relaxed our moral standards too much.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I watched an interview with some of the mans family members on AC360 last night and they claimed that he was gay.

I don't think that's relevant one way or the other. He could be a straight man who liked "girly" things. He could be a gay man who liked rugby and MMA. The fact that a label was put on him at a young age and attempts were made to dramatically modify his instincts is the problem.

This is not working with a child to keep him from playing with himself in public. This is working with a child to change him from liking the things he instinctively likes.

The sexuality aspect of this is irrelevant, except that if he was, in fact, gay, it likely created a very deep self-loathing.

[Hunter44]

I don't think that's relevant one way or the other. He could be a straight man who liked "girly" things. He could be a gay man who liked rugby and MMA. The fact that a label was put on him at a young age and attempts were made to dramatically modify his instincts is the problem.

This is not working with a child to keep him from playing with himself in public. This is working with a child to change him from liking the things he instinctively likes.

The sexuality aspect of this is irrelevant' date=' except that if he was, in fact, gay, it likely created a very deep self-loathing.[/quote']

I agree. I only mentioned it because a few others had questioned whether he was or not because the article didn't say so.

[LadySkinsFan]

Go watch the report on CNN, and all your questions about whether he was gay or not will be answered. He was gay, for those of you who like shortcuts.

If people think the climate is getting more tolerant, you need to read about the Dominionists who are trying to make this country a theocracy. Palin, Bachmann and the others who are far far right are in this movement. The big attack on women's reproductive freedom including access to many types of birth control and abortion is happening now in 8 states where they are trying to declare a just fertilized clump of cells a person so they can outlaw abortion. This redefining of a person will also outlaw many types of birth control. So it would behoove us to think about how much control they want over women in particular and then out to men as well, when they want a state religion and death to homosexuals. And no, I'm not in some sort of fear mode, just read about Dominionists and you will understand that the Constitution itself is under attack.

I grew up in the 50s and 60s. I was severly admonished whenever I mentioned liking a girl I played with (and no, get your minds out of the gutter!) so I learned to keep quiet about my crushes. I've found out in later years at class reunions that I was not the only one, but we've talked about it and we all thought we were the only one. The football coach's daughter turned out lesbian! But it just wasn't talked about back then. I found out in college and a few years later that I wanted to be with women too and I was, but after my daughter was born I decided to live my true life.

So some of us marry and later decide to live their true life and it just wreaks the family, so much pain there for everyone. At least for young people today it is changing but it's still not great.

And as far as elementary school indoctrination goes, how much indoctrination do you think that gay/lesbian kids get to live the standard heterosexual life? It's all day every day indoctrination. So I think presenting kids with an alternate viewpoint that is devoid of the demonization of homosexuality that is usually presented is a good thing for those kids because it tells them that it is okay to be who they really are and to be accepted as such. We are still in a very primitive state because of the hazing and bullying that is allowed to be directed at any kid who is different.

[visionary]

Go watch the report on CNN, and all your questions about whether he was gay or not will be answered. He was gay, for those of you who like shortcuts.

If people think the climate is getting more tolerant, you need to read about the Dominionists who are trying to make this country a theocracy. Palin, Bachmann and the others who are far far right are in this movement. The big attack on women's reproductive freedom including access to many types of birth control and abortion is happening now in 8 states where they are trying to declare a just fertilized clump of cells a person so they can outlaw abortion. This redefining of a person will also outlaw many types of birth control. So it would behoove us to think about how much control they want over women in particular and then out to men as well, when they want a state religion and death to homosexuals.

Let's not have this thread turn into a side discussion on Abortion too. Two entirely different issues.

What happened to this guys sucks, whether it was considered advanced ideas and the parents thought they were doing the right thing or not.

Good to make this kind of situation public, at least after the fact. Hopefully we see less of this child manipulation in the future.

[NavyDave]

Ignorant, Webster definition: Resulting from or showing lack of knowledge or intelligence.

That's the one I was referring to.

If that is the case then you should look into the mirror when using the word since I understand supporters of Deviant activities quite well.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

LSF,

Thanks for sharing your story. It reflects what I assumed that attitude was in most cases until - God - the last ten years or so? Maybe. Your mileage may vary. My only personal experience with this is with a cousin who was so obviously gay when he was 7 or 8 years old that certain family members simply had to acknowledge it. This was the 70s - though - so it was never brought up to his parents or our grandparents and to be honest, I'm not sure if he is in or out of the closet to this day. (We are not all that terribly close).

Anyway, I digress.

My thought is - and I will stage this as a question to you - what do you think would have happened if your family could have been more open about what your "status" was? Would it have made your life better or worse? Would your parents have locked you in a convent, kicked you out or rallied to your side? Obviously, these are personal questions and you don't have to answer.

But I have to believe that in some ways, the increased openness has also led to situations that are more fraught with danger - emotional, mental, and physical.

I've been reading Dan Savage for years, and he has always given the same advice to gay teenagers in rural or small-town environemnts. His advice is "wait." Find an open-minded college or larger city with a gay subculture and begin your process of coming out of the closet there. He seemed to think that very little good could come of being out and pround at 16 in Cornville, Nebraska. But I grew up in a place like that and found out recenlty that my high school has an LGBT support group. On the one hand, that's a positive sign. On the other hand, I'm worried about the targets those kids in it have become.

[NavyDave]

Because they are NavyDaves? :whoknows:

Nope because I wouldn't waste the money doing anything like that and Thank God my Son and Daughter are normal just like the majority of the country and world.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

If that is the case then you should look into the mirror when using the word since I understand supporters of Deviant activities quite well.

So since she has spoken so openly on her thread and I have no shame, I will gladly use her as a club.

NavyDave, in a perfect world of your creation, how do you think LSF should live her life and what should happen to her if she did not abide by those rules?

[NavyDave]

To quote Ricky Gervais: "Its a strange sort of bigotry that you can effect other peoples lives whom have no effect on yours".

No NavyDave, your extreme right wing bull**** is frankly disgusting, your dehumanization of homosexuals is the reason why right-wing ideology is looked upon with such disdain. Are those individuals not breathing, thinking Humans? So they should teach children at school to exile homosexuals from any type of well-being? It is not their homosexuality that makes their lives abnormal, its the animistic, draconian bigotry that individuals like yourself promote.

So to make it simple enough for even 2 watt light bulbs to understand, Killing yourself because you can not deal with people not accepting you is a wussy move. Even if you are a sexual deviant, or a wimpy leftwing member of Generation Ipad who just do not want to be in the normal demographic cause its cool to rebel against the machine, there is no way somebody's opinion should have you taking your life.