Mid-Term Report Card: How IS that hopey/changey thing workin' out for ya?

[PokerPacker]

don't worry, nobody actually believes that. certainly liberals have not gotten everything they wanted, but you would have to be willfully ignoring a LOT of actual content in this very thread to believe Obama = McCain policy-wise.

who said Obama = McCain? We're saying Obama = Bush. Democrats said McCain = Bush (which he may have, but we'll likely never know).

[War Paint]

don't worry, nobody actually believes that. certainly liberals have not gotten everything they wanted, but you would have to be willfully ignoring a LOT of actual content in this very thread to believe Obama = McCain policy-wise.

I wasn't comparing McCain to Obama.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

So far, Obama is just like Bush, McCain, and Jimmy Carter. He is also a Muslim Socialist Usurper.

This all strikes me as unlikely.

[Predicto]

Obama could not be more opposite than Carter in temperment or in his approach to Congress. Obama's personality is actually most like Reagan's. Reagan simply had a slew of Democrats willing to work with him whereas Republicans wouldn't help Obama change the tires on a school bus filled with orphans and puppies.

Great line, and quite accurate.

[twa]

So far' date=' Obama is just like Bush, McCain, and Jimmy Carter. He is also a Muslim Socialist Usurper.

This all strikes me as unlikely.[/quote']

No more unlikely than many libs rating him the same as I did.

Ya just gotta take the different aspects and and how people weigh them into account :pfft:

[mardi gras skin]

I just don't see what a Teddy Roosevelt type would accomplish in this modern environment. You would get a lot of great speeches' date=' but no actual legislation. It's nearly impossible for a Democrat to be that kind of President, because the Democratic coalition is so fragmented.[/quote']

"Too big to fail" is the modern equivalent of the monopoly or "trust" Roosevelt went after. Obviously, neither Bush nor Obama has had the resolve to dismantle our modern day US Steels and Standard Oils. This kowtowing to big business/banks/labor/oil is exactly what one expects of presidents during fantastic economic explosions but they're out of place right now. When big business doesn't produce big GDP, we punish big business and re-establish sane regulations. That's the era we're in.

If its nearly impossible for the Democrats to produce a Teddy Roosevelt kind of President, I'd rather look in another direction for the next president.

[greenspandan]

who said Obama = McCain? We're saying Obama = Bush. Democrats said McCain = Bush (which he may have, but we'll likely never know).

yeah because W would have definitely ended DADT, nominated Sotomayor and Kagan to the SCOTUS, and passed comprehensive healthcare reform. no doubt.

[mardi gras skin]

Great line, and quite accurate.

But why did Reagan have a slew of Democrats willing to work with him? Can you imagine how Tip would have reacted if Reagan had dismissed him with an "I won"? Reagan never had the overwhelming number in Congress Obama had and he never felt the need to make it clear that HE was in charge of their negations.

Obama screwed up on a human level. In that, he is very much like Carter and a major disappointment for those hoping for the Great Communicator part 2.

[AsburySkinsFan]

But why did Reagan have a slew of Democrats willing to work with him? Can you imagine how Tip would have reacted if Reagan had dismissed him with an "I won"? Reagan never had the overwhelming number in Congress Obama had and he never felt the need to make it clear that HE was in charge of their negations.

Obama screwed up on a human level. In that, he is very much like Carter and a major disappointment for those hoping for the Great Communicator part 2.

Please, comparing the political climate Reagan enjoyed to Obama's political climate is just naive. Or do you seriously want us to believe that any Republican (other than the RINO's as the Right calls them) was going to cross over and vote for Health Care Reform?

[Bang]

But why did Reagan have a slew of Democrats willing to work with him? Can you imagine how Tip would have reacted if Reagan had dismissed him with an "I won"? Reagan never had the overwhelming number in Congress Obama had and he never felt the need to make it clear that HE was in charge of their negations.

Obama screwed up on a human level. In that, he is very much like Carter and a major disappointment for those hoping for the Great Communicator part 2.

So, the GOP would have been willing to work with him had he been a more gracious winner?

Come on man, you can't possibly believe that.

And if this IS true, well what a bunch of ninnies. Grow the hell up already. the country needs it.

but i guess petty schoolkid crap like that is more important...

Barack didnt say hi to me in the hallway today! Oh i hate him!

~Bang

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Yep. And he was stupid enough to waste a year trying to be bipartisan on health care with the GOP, when he should have understood that the current GOP has zero interest in finding any solutions because solutions would make the President look good. He should have steamrolled those clowns. That is is biggest failure as a President.

This.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

But why did Reagan have a slew of Democrats willing to work with him? Can you imagine how Tip would have reacted if Reagan had dismissed him with an "I won"? Reagan never had the overwhelming number in Congress Obama had and he never felt the need to make it clear that HE was in charge of their negations.

Obama screwed up on a human level. In that, he is very much like Carter and a major disappointment for those hoping for the Great Communicator part 2.

Reagan didn't have to say, "I won" because Tip O'Neil and Bob Byrd recognized that elections have consequences and were dedicated to something called "governing." As long as Reagan showed ANY willingness to work with them, they would work with him. Believe it or not, the only Republican since 1994 who has shown any kind of willingness to work with Democrats has been Newt Gingrich - who was willing to compromise behind closed doors as long as Democrats didn't mind him attempting to destroy them in public.

The fundamental problem with the Republican Party in this century is that it is not serious about governing. It's only interested in winning.

[AsburySkinsFan]

The fundamental problem with the Republican Party in this century is that it is not serious about governing. It's only interested in winning.

No joke. It doesn't matter what the other side says or does, they MUST be against it because only by being in the opposition can they maintain their narrative that the Democrats are out to destroy America at every turn.

[mardi gras skin]

Please, comparing the political climate Reagan enjoyed to Obama's political climate is just naive. Or do you seriously want us to believe that any Republican (other than the RINO's as the Right calls them) was going to cross over and vote for Health Care Reform?

Of course there are differences. There is no boogie man behind an Iron Curtain. All of our institutions (church, education, government, the press, etc.) are held in greater distain. Obama hasn't survived a bullet with a witty quip. The list goes on and on.

But I never said today's political climate was the same. I said Obama has failed to replicate Reagan's interpersonal skills. Carter proved that Tip O'Neil was more than happy to make a President's life hell if that president failed to show him respect. Reagan, smartly, didn't rub Tip's face in his election victory. This was in response to two posts comparing Obama to Reagan.

And despite the good will Reagan won on a personal level, he was shot down just like Obama. His budgets were dead on arrival. Remember "Voodoo Economics?" If you're imagining that Reagan got a free pass, you're misremembering.

---------- Post added April-28th-2011 at 06:07 PM ----------

So, the GOP would have been willing to work with him had he been a more gracious winner?

Absolutely. I remember listening to Newt Gingrich on NPR and he offered a perfect blueprint for Obama. Go about the process the way Newt did with his Contract with America. Don't try to pass the whole thing in bulk, Republicans don't work that way. Submit each element of the health care plan item by item and let each element win on its merits. I remember thinking, "This is exactly what Obama would do if he were interested in working with the Republicans." But I also knew he wouldn't because he had the mandate, the super majority, the moral high ground, and the arrogance that would keep him from seeing Republicans as peers in the process.

[Bang]

Absolutely. I remember listening to Newt Gingrich on NPR and he offered a perfect blueprint for Obama. Go about the process the way Newt did with his Contract with America. Don't try to pass the whole thing in bulk, Republicans don't work that way. Submit each element of the health care plan item by item and let each element win on its merits. I remember thinking, "This is exactly what Obama would do if he were interested in working with the Republicans." But I also knew he wouldn't because he had the mandate, the super majority, the moral high ground, and the arrogance that would keep him from seeing Republicans as peers in the process.

Do it my way or we won't cooperate.

How can you hear anything but?

~Bang

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

And despite the good will Reagan won on a personal level, he was shot down just like Obama. His budgets were dead on arrival. Remember "Voodoo Economics?" If you're imagining that Reagan got a free pass, you're misremembering.

Unlike you, who seems to have forgotten that "Voodoo Economics" was a line uttered by George HW Bush in a debate with Reagan in 1980.

In all seriousness, what budgets of Reagan were DOA? Seriously. Explain what he wanted and what he failed to get. Because I don't think you know what you are talking about. The biggest budget fights (at least during the early 80s) were among Reagan's staff.

Again, I beg everyone here to follow my #1 Rule of the Tailgate: Know what the hell you are talking about.

[Bang]

Nevermind, LKB is on top of where the term Voodoo Economics came from

~Bang

[mardi gras skin]

In all seriousness' date=' what budgets of Reagan were DOA?[/quote']

"You want to know the most important difference between a Dukakis and Reagan administration? There won't be any 'Dead on Arrival' budgets."

_John Sasso, Michael Dukasis' Chief of Staff, 1983-1987.

Is your opinion that Sasso just made that up, LKB?

---------- Post added April-28th-2011 at 06:37 PM ----------

Nevermind, LKB is on top of where the term Voodoo Economics came from

~Bang

Yes, yes. I know where it came from. Just like I know that the whole birther thing started with Hillary Clinton supporters during the primaries. Who cares where it started? Dems latched on to the phrase in order to dismiss his budgets.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Of course there are differences. There is no boogie man behind an Iron Curtain. All of our institutions (church, education, government, the press, etc.) are held in greater distain. Obama hasn't survived a bullet with a witty quip. The list goes on and on.

But I never said today's political climate was the same. I said Obama has failed to replicate Reagan's interpersonal skills. Carter proved that Tip O'Neil was more than happy to make a President's life hell if that president failed to show him respect. Reagan, smartly, didn't rub Tip's face in his election victory. This was in response to two posts comparing Obama to Reagan.

And despite the good will Reagan won on a personal level, he was shot down just like Obama. His budgets were dead on arrival. Remember "Voodoo Economics?" If you're imagining that Reagan got a free pass, you're misremembering.

The problem is that you are operating on the premise that the reason the GOP isn't willing to work with Obama is because Obama wasn't a gracious winner (an assessment that you'll forgive me if I disagree with), the reason that the GOP hasn't been willing to work with Obama is because they were too busy screaming that he hated America and was a Socialist who wanted to kill your grandmother. They were NEVER going to work with Obama....EVER.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

"You want to know the most important difference between a Dukakis and Reagan administration? There won't be any 'Dead on Arrival' budgets."

_John Sasso, Michael Dukasis' Chief of Staff, 1983-1987.

Is your opinion that Sasso just made that up, LKB?

No, he didn't make it up. But you don't realize what he is talking about.

The true Budget Fights during the Reagan years were - wait for it - among Republicans.

The 1981 Budget (which is ultimately the one that set the tone for the entire 80s) was one in which Reagan got nearly everything he wanted - record tax cuts combined with massive defense spending. It's also the budget that drove Budget Director David Stockman to call Reagan out in The Atlantic and then get his balls cut off by the president.

The other huge budget fight of the Reagan years was the '87 Budget. That was the Budget that was declared DOA. Who declared it DOA? Pete Domenici - Republican from New Mexico.

So, from what I can gather, you are proving that the Democrats refused to work with Reagan by citing resistance by his future vice president and a Republican Senator who chaired the Budget Committee.

[Predicto]

No' date=' he didn't make it up. But you don't realize what he is talking about.

The true Budget Fights during the Reagan years were - wait for it - among Republicans.

The 1981 Budget (which is ultimately the one that set the tone for the entire 80s) was one in which Reagan got nearly everything he wanted - record tax cuts combined with massive defense spending. It's also the budget that drove Budget Director David Stockman to call Reagan out in The Atlantic and then get his balls cut off by the president.

The other huge budget fight of the Reagan years was the '87 Budget. That was the Budget that was declared DOA. Who declared it DOA? Pete Domenici - Republican from New Mexico.

So, from what I can gather, you are proving that the Democrats refused to work with Reagan by citing resistance by his future vice president and a Republican Senator who chaired the Budget Committee.[/quote']

Hate to pile on and all, but.... you know, this is correct.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Hate to pile on and all, but.... you know, this is correct.

I'm enjoying your series of "LKB is right" posts. I think you should continue it.

[oisn1]

Absolutely. I remember listening to Newt Gingrich on NPR and he offered a perfect blueprint for Obama. Go about the process the way Newt did with his Contract with America. Don't try to pass the whole thing in bulk, Republicans don't work that way. Submit each element of the health care plan item by item and let each element win on its merits. I remember thinking, "This is exactly what Obama would do if he were interested in working with the Republicans." But I also knew he wouldn't because he had the mandate, the super majority, the moral high ground, and the arrogance that would keep him from seeing Republicans as peers in the process.

No, if Obama were interested in working with Republicans, he would have set out certain mandates on what Healthcare Reform should look like and let Congress sort it out. Thus, Republicans and Democrats can bicker back and forth for close to a year hashing out reform that is too socialist for conservatives and not progressive enough for liberals. But no, he had to ram socialist, single-payer, not-for-profit healthcare that creates death panels and pulls the plug on granny through Congress in less than a week. Oh wait....

The Republican idea of working together is, "Cave to our wishes or we'll bash you and your legislation. And even if you do cave, we'll still do it anyways."

[twa]

Reagan had the advantage of following a failed presidency

[mardi gras skin]

No' date=' he didn't make it up. But you don't realize what he is talking about.

The true Budget Fights during the Reagan years were - wait for it - among Republicans.[/quote']

Rule #1: Know what you're talking about, right?

"You want to know the most important difference between a Dukakis and Reagan administration? There won't be any 'Dead on Arrival' budgets. You won't have confrontations; he'll negotiate with the leaders. When Dukakis gets up to give his budget message, most of the key elements will have been negotiated in advance."

_John Sasso, Michael Dukasis' Chief of Staff, 1983-1987

"He calls me regularly, out of the blue. The idea that he'd call is such a change from Reagan and Carter."

_Tony Coelho, House Majority whip, DEMOCRAT

You're dead wrong. Sasso was not talking about Republicans, he was talking about the Democratic leadership in Congress.

Now, the DOA business didn't set in year one because Hinckley gave Reagan a trump card at least as powerful as Obama's supermajority...the dem's couldn't touch Reagan's first budget.

"By April 24, [Reagan] was well enough to walk to the West Wing and chair a full Cabinet meeting. And four days later, live on prime time, he made the most dramatic presidential appearance in Congress since Franklin Roosevelt's return from Yalta.

"The millions watching saw a large and splendid man, literally death-defying, appear at the threshold of the House as the doorkeeper roared the traditional 'The President of the United States!' All members rose as required, but their respect on this occasion verged on reverence -- and also signaled a near-helpless capitulation to the message they knew he was bringing.

"'I walked in to an unbelievable ovation that went on for several minutes,' he wrote afterward. His speech -- a call for one hundred percent support for his Program for Economic Recovery -- was interrupted by fourteen bursts of applause and three standing ovations. 'In the 3rd of these suddenly about 40 Democrats stood and applauded. Maybe we are going to make it. It took a lot of courage for them to do that, and it sent a tingle down my spine.'

"Not forty but sixty-three Democrats subsequently joined the solid Republican minority, sending Reagan's budget to the Senate with a vote of 253-176. If not quite the total support he had dreamed of, it was a huge victory, and the first official register of his legislative power. As Speaker Tip O'Neill philosophically reminded reporters, Congress was ultimately responsible to the American people, 'and the will of the people is to go along with the President.'"

Edmund Morris, Dutch: A Memoir of Ronald Reagan

But that lasted a year. The rancor settled in with the recession of '82, the moment the Dems smelled blood.

---------- Post added April-28th-2011 at 07:44 PM ----------

Hate to pile on and all, but.... you know, this is correct.