Mid-Term Report Card: How IS that hopey/changey thing workin' out for ya?

[Teller]

Pretty simple.

1) What has changed? (Bonus points if you can list a change for the better.)

2) Give Obama a letter grade for his performance so far.

3) Feel free to discuss any topics the administration has faced, and give your opinion of how well/poorly they've been handled.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Palin isn't VP....so 100% :thumbsup:

[SkinsHokieFan]

1) Pretty much nothing. Multiple wars, GITMO still open, Patriot Act still law, Wall Street doing what it wants, and government expanding. This is W's wet dream of a 3rd term

2) C; Quite a bit was out of his hands. He DID inherit a financial disaster. He DID inherit multiple wars and a budding police state. He DID inherit Ben Bernake

3) First the good: Somali pirates, Egypt, speech in Egypt in 2009, overall tone to the rest of the world. I have been very impressed by Hillary

The bad: No financial execs in jail, complete cluster of an economic plan executed by one of the most arrogant and pathetic economic teams we have seen in our lifetime. Geithner is a disaster. Summers a disaster. Wall Street is running this WH. The health care bill, a complete debacle and total failure of leadership. Punting on the deficit and debt issues. Escalating the war in Pakistan and entering Libya.

In short, if the Republicans had their act together, this would be a 2012 would be a 1992 like win for them. The economy is still in shambles, inflation is starting to kick everyone's ass and people simply aren't making money. Looking ahead to 2012 the President is very lucky that the Republicans are economically brain dead and still trying to win on wedge issues (Park 51 Center in NYC being an example)

[Teller]

Palin isn't VP....so 100% :thumbsup:

Ok, zing.

But seriously. You piss me off sometimes, but I respect your opinion. So when you have time, I'd like to hear what you actually think.

I see this:

We were promised transparency. We got, "we have to pass it, so we can tell you what's in it."

We were promised less meddling in the Middle East, because it turns the average Joe in that region against us. We got Libya.

We were promised that Gitmo would be closed, because it provided incentive for terrorist recruiting. We got Gitmo as is.

We were promised tax breaks for fathers who pay child support. We got, "woopsie. Those stuggling the most WILL foot the bill."

We were promised no new taxes on those making under $250,000. We got, "unless you can't afford healthcare, in which case we'll fine (tax) your ass."

Seriously. What has changed? What is better?

[zoony]

1) Not much

2) C+ or B- on a good day

3) Very dissapointed by our involvement in Libya and escalation of Afghanistan.

[Mickalino]

but....but.....but.....he hasn't had enough time......it's going to take more than 4 years to clean up the mess that W made

[Teller]

I have been very impressed by Hillary

I could not agree more with this. I really thought she would use her position to angle for another presidential run. Instead, she has been flying under the radar, and very effective in her role. I won't say she's won me over, as far as being president, but I'd give her the highest grade of the bunch. A solid A-.

[SkinsHokieFan]

I could not agree more with this. I really thought she would use her position to angle for another presidential run. Instead, she has been flying under the radar, and very effective in her role. I won't say she's won me over, as far as being president, but I'd give her the highest grade of the bunch. A solid A-.

Easily the most effective and best member of the administration. An absolute homerun, she has done a fantastic job, not only with dealing with foreign leaders but how she has handled employee issues with FSOs and the like at State.

I would actually vote for her in 2012 for POTUS *shudder*

[twa]

On the plus side the anti-war crowd has been silenced and the principle of Executive power expanded as well as expanded drone and targeted killings

I'll go with a C- with credit for his neo- tendencies

I'm gonna skip on listing his errors and simply say I will not be voting for him.

SHF I regret cutting down Hillary and would vote for her over O

[Teller]

Easily the most effective and best member of the administration. An absolute homerun, she has done a fantastic job, not only with dealing with foreign leaders but how she has handled employee issues with FSOs and the like at State.

I would actually vote for her in 2012 for POTUS *shudder*

Y'know, Ish, it'd be a consideration for me. I mean hell, the most "conservative" president in fiscal terms recently was her husband. And frankly, God help me, I'd take him back in a heartbeat over these last two clowns. I think Bill is a dreadful human being, but in retrospect, it's hard to argue with his fiscal policy; and welfare reform.

I never thought it'd be a consideration for me, but I wouldn't automatically eliminate Hillary as my choice in 2012 or '16 at this point. Though if McDonnell runs in '16, my mind is already made up.

[zoony]

not really feeling the hillary love. not sure what she's done that is so great.

she's not royally ****ed up, which maybe is a good thing

[twa]

Which makes her a ringer in that crowd

[Teller]

not really feeling the hillary love. not sure what she's done that is so great.

she's not royally ****ed up, which maybe is a good thing

IMO, it is. I think she's found the perfect balance between being the "good soldier," being assertive, and not making it about her.

Granted, I had my own preconceptions about what to expect from her, and they were tainted by the political positions I hold. But I really thought she would use the premier cabinet position as a launch pad for another presidential run. She hasn't, and I commend her for that.

The Secretary of State, IMO, should be someone who works hard behind the scenes to leverage our position internationally, but isn't a public face all that often. That slot is the president's right-hand-man, someone he can have full faith and confidence in, without worrying about ulterior motives. That's Hillary to a "T" IMO. Of course, that could be a concerted effort to give that impression, but I don't get the feeling that it is.

Bill was very skilled at giving the right impression, until my side made it impossible. I'm sure she's learned some tricks of the trade. And I can't put my finger on it exactly, but I don't get the impression that that's what's going on here.

[Duckus]

1) Credit card bill of rights, gay rights (DATA repeal, hate crime leg, federal employee benefits), white house visitor records, Sonia Sotomayor, Elena Kagan, Lilly Ledbetter Act, saving GM, economy stabilized. Not a great list.

2) I give Obama a C or C-. Healthcare and Financial Reform were far too weak for me. I want a single payer system and I want heavy regulations on Wall Street. Also, some CEOs in jail.

3) Horrendous communication. The administration has never found a way to get their message across. They have lost the message battle to the GOP from day one and never have been able to consistently dictate the message. I never in a million years would have thought that communication would be Obama's biggest problem.

[fullnelson9999]

1. What has changed? People hate each other more than ever, though that really isn't Obama's doing. It's more his presence in the WH than anything. It all starts at the top. I voted for him in 2008, and would vote for him again in 2012, but he really needs to step up and assert himself. We'll see how releasing the birth certificate plays out. Could go either way.

2. C to C+. I'm really not a fan of assessing someone's performance until they no longer have the job.

3. I don't put Libya in the same category as Afghanistan or Iraq. It really wasn't in the plan, but I think something had to be done. Who knows...that whole region is a ****storm. I wish GITMO was closed down by now too.

I don't think anyone could have done everything they wanted to during this term. Democrats, Republicans, Tea Partiers, etc. It was a lose/lose scenario to begin with. That's not me making excuses, it's how I felt from the beginning.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Positive (imo) Accomplishments

1.)Ending DADT

2.)The Bailouts (even though they didn't deserve it, that decision might have kept us from another depression)

3.)Drawing down the forces in Iraq (even though it was agreed to under GW)

4.)Health Reform...even though I don't think it went far enough (Public Option)

5.)Created the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau

6.)Added War Funding into the overall budget

7.)Tax credits to help people with healthcare premiums.

8.)Nuclear Arms Treaty

9.)Signed an executive order that restored a 30-day time frame for former presidents to review records before they are released. It also eliminated the right for the vice president or family members of former presidents to do the reviews.

10.)Expanded Pell Grants for low-income students. (I have family members who wouldn't have been able to attend school if not for this)

11.)Reforming mandatory minimum sentences.

There's much more but that's just off the top of my head.

Disappointments (sort of)

1.)Renewing the Patriot Act (Don't like this at all. I criticized GW for it so I gotta do the same for my guy....though I am curious as to what Obama saw (intel) that persuaded him to do it)

2.)Closing Gitmo (Though technically he did try but congress cut the funding...Republicans and Blue Dog Dems.)

3.)Too many Wall Street Types in the WH. (I get the need to have someone who knows the inner workings of Wall Street but......)

4.)Afghanistan..(We're supposed to be drawing down and the sooner the better. Originally I supported Obama's actions but I quickly came to my senses and realized that we'll never win that engagement. Time to save face and get out. But to be totally fair, people shouldn't get too upset at our involvement. Afterall, Obama said he was going to increase our forces there and that's what he did.)

5.)Healthcare Reform (IMO, it doesn't go far enough. I don't trust the insurance companies at all. The Public Option would have leveled the playing field but alas, there weren't enough votes so the Pres dropped it early in negotiations.

6.)I think the Pres hasn't shown the leadership that I expected. I almost think he's too cool and analytical. Sometimes ya gotta get in there and break some heads....figuratively speaking of course. Fight for you agenda man.

So to sum it up....considering the ****ty situation he's dealing with, I'd give him a C+.

[Teller]

1. What has changed? People hate each other more than ever, though that really isn't Obama's doing. It's more his presence in the WH than anything. It all starts at the top. I voted for him in 2008, and would vote for him again in 2012, but he really needs to step up and assert himself. We'll see how releasing the birth certificate plays out. Could go either way.

I may be extremely ignorant, and biased, in this case, but why do we hate his presence in the White House? Are we going back to race here? And if we are, that may be 100% fair. I don't know. I know my own limitations, and I tend not to see race the way most people do. But speaking completely honestly here, I don't see Obama as our "black president." I see him as "our president." And my criticisms are based on that. I supported him in 2008, based on what he said. I have come to see things differently, based on what he's done.

There will ALWAYS be a small percentage of our population that is racist. I hate that. But it's a fact. And I'll grant that for some, especially our older population, it might have been hard to imagine a black president. But at this point, I think the vast majority of people are making judgements based on policy. There's probably a little wishful thinking there on my part, but I like to believe that -- for the most part -- the American electorate is pretty reasonable. Unfortunately though, I don't see many people on either side speaking to us.

2. C to C+. I'm really not a fan of assessing someone's performance until they no longer have the job.

I shouldn't be either. As I indicated, my opinion of Clinton has done a near-complete 180.

3. I don't put Libya in the same category as Afghanistan or Iraq. It really wasn't in the plan, but I think something had to be done. Who knows...that whole region is a ****storm. I wish GITMO was closed down by now too.

Honestly, I agree. I wanted us to take action in Libya. But if the reasoning behind opposition to Iraq was true, then it doesn't matter why we go there. US meddling in the Middle East under Bush supposedly generated more terrorist/martyrs. Why is it different now?

Also, I support Gitmo being open as a necessary evil. I just loathe being lied to. That's one thing my parents instilled in me from the time I could understand it. They would support me as much as they could, even when I was wrong. But if I lied to them, I was going to have a great deal of difficulty sitting down comfortably for a while. And though I've not had reason to spank either of my children yet, if I ever do, I expect that it will be over a significant lie. I have zero tolerance for it.

My decision to support Obama was deeply personal. It was the first time I decided to vote for the good of myself over the good of my country. I was in very dire financial straits during the 08 campaign. Tax breaks for fathers paying child support was CRITICAL to me. And it's stalled. There's zero effort being applied to it right now as far as I can tell. And as hard as it is for many to keep their households up with rising gas prices, food prices, and everything else, it's doubly difficult for those of us maintaining two households. I really feel like we're the forgotten poor. And the idea that white males have it made, when so many of us are maintaining two households, severely pisses me off.

[Duckus]

6.)Added War Funding into the overall budget

8.)Nuclear Arms Treaty

10.)Expanded Pell Grants for low-income students. (I have family members who wouldn't have been able to attend school if not for this)

11.)Reforming mandatory minimum sentences.

Those are a few good ones I forgot to list.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Ok, zing.

But seriously. You piss me off sometimes, but I respect your opinion. So when you have time, I'd like to hear what you actually think.

You love me...you really love me.

I see this:

We were promised transparency. We got, "we have to pass it, so we can tell you what's in it."

You really think that Obama has that kind of control in the sausage factory that is the Legislature?

We were promised less meddling in the Middle East, because it turns the average Joe in that region against us. We got Libya.

While I've not been 100% sold on Libya (or even close) I will play Devil's Advocate for a moment in that there is a difference between Iraq/Afghanistan and working with the UN to assist the "average Joes" in Libya who are themselves rising up to overthrow their dictator.

We were promised that Gitmo would be closed, because it provided incentive for terrorist recruiting. We got Gitmo as is.

And you can thank the Republican Fear Machine for that; remember Obama tried to close it, and they screamed that those monsters would be roaming free on American soil. Obama lost the PR war on that one, as such Gitmo is still open.

We were promised tax breaks for fathers who pay child support. We got, "woopsie. Those stuggling the most WILL foot the bill."

He passed a bill against father's paying child support? Must have missed that.

We were promised no new taxes on those making under $250,000. We got, "unless you can't afford healthcare, in which case we'll fine (tax) your ass."

Actually he promised a public option, which we all understood would cost us something in the form of taxes, and then the Tea Party revolutionaries drummed up by the GOP fear machine again won the PR war there too, and we got a ****ized bill. But, we did get pre-existing condition coverage, as well as several other GOOD things in the healthcare reform bill, just not what we really wanted. Believe me when I tell you this, when I heard on NPR that the public option was all but dead my heart literally sank, I felt an actual pain in my chest and it was everything I could do to keep from punching my truck stereo, I was pissed.

For a letter grade, I give him a B-, because he doesn't stay ahead of the story, he isn't using his bully pulpit, instead he seems to wait and respond which puts him on defense and in this climate defense=wrong, it's stupid but that's the way it is right now. I want to see more campaign type speeches, rally the people again push back against the fear machine get the support of the mob and he'll get his change. He would have gotten a solid B from me but he gave in to the Birther terrorists and showed his long form, I'd have told them to pound sand.

Seriously. What has changed? What is better?

Economy is turning around, stocks are higher...much higher, unemployment is steadily falling, health care reform is passed and you now get preventative care coverage by insurance companies, as well as pre-existing condition care, you won't be dropped by your insurance if you get very sick, no more lifetime insurance caps, Wall Street reform (doesn't go far enough IMO but still it's more than Bush did), we don't torture any more...those are some of the things that have changed and some of the things that are better.

That and Palin isn't VP so I'm good.

[Teller]

He passed a bill against father's paying child support? Must have missed that.

No, you didn't miss it, because nothing happened. He promised that fathers paying child support would get half of the tax credit. Since we provide half of their sustenance (along with everything for ourselves), it only makes sense. As of now, the custodial parent (which is the mother, unless she actually IS an axe murderer) gets the entire deduction. He went through the motion of having it sent to committee, but it's been stalled there for the better part of two years now.

On this note, I probably should go to bed. I don't want to risk my posting privileges. But this infuriates me more than anything going on at the federal level right now. I bring home less than 1/3 of my gross income. And unfortunately, there's no way out of it. If I get a second job, they just take more money, and I have far less time to actually see my kids. If I knew how to start an NPO for fathers in this situation, I would make it my life's work. There is no voice out there. There is no help at the federal level. And I can't get anyone at the state level to even return a phone call. (Though they call my ex back the same day.) With the divorce rate over 50%, this is one of the most pressing silent issues we face right now, IMHO.

[AsburySkinsFan]

No, you didn't miss it, because nothing happened. He promised that fathers paying child support would get half of the tax credit. Since we provide half of their sustenance (along with everything for ourselves), it only makes sense. As of now, the custodial parent (which is the mother, unless she actually IS an axe murderer) gets the entire deduction. He went through the motion of having it sent to committee, but it's been stalled there for the better part of two years now.

I hear you and I want that too, but you have to admit that he simply isn't able to wave that wand and make everything happen, we still want comprehensive immigration reform and we still haven't gotten it yet, we want completely out of Iraq and Afghanistan and we don't have that, we want Gitmo closed and we don't get that either, I believe that we need to go back to the Clinton era tax rate but that will never happen, and now that we're back into campaign mode not much is going to get done but posturing and pandering. So vote for Obama in 2012 and we'll work on getting the things then that we didn't get this term.

[fullnelson9999]

I may be extremely ignorant, and biased, in this case, but why do we hate his presence in the White House? Are we going back to race here? And if we are, that may be 100% fair. I don't know. I know my own limitations, and I tend not to see race the way most people do. But speaking completely honestly here, I don't see Obama as our "black president." I see him as "our president." And my criticisms are based on that. I supported him in 2008, based on what he said. I have come to see things differently, based on what he's done.

There will ALWAYS be a small percentage of our population that is racist. I hate that. But it's a fact. And I'll grant that for some, especially our older population, it might have been hard to imagine a black president. But at this point, I think the vast majority of people are making judgements based on policy. There's probably a little wishful thinking there on my part, but I like to believe that -- for the most part -- the American electorate is pretty reasonable. Unfortunately though, I don't see many people on either side speaking to us.

I didn't necessarily mean anything racial by what I said, but it plays a part i suppose. I've never seen a group of people hate a man like the right hates Obama. Whether it's his race, his viewpoints, or his citizenship, people just flat out loathe the guy. The fact that he's in the White House just makes things worse. That's what I meant.

However, while we're talking about Obama and race, I was going to school in rural Shippensburg, PA during the campaigns. I've never heard more racist things than I did in 2008, even from my roommates. I'll never forget one of them yelling "I'd rather die than have a ****** president!" The racists are a small percentage of the haters, but I think they had a lot to do with the ideas that people latched on to in opposition of Obama.

Honestly, I agree. I wanted us to take action in Libya. But if the reasoning behind opposition to Iraq was true, then it doesn't matter why we go there. US meddling in the Middle East under Bush supposedly generated more terrorist/martyrs. Why is it different now?

Also, I support Gitmo being open as a necessary evil. I just loathe being lied to. That's one thing my parents instilled in me from the time I could understand it. They would support me as much as they could, even when I was wrong. But if I lied to them, I was going to have a great deal of difficulty sitting down comfortably for a while. And though I've not had reason to spank either of my children yet, if I ever do, I expect that it will be over a significant lie. I have zero tolerance for it.

I see Libya as different because we weren't the only ones who wanted to intervene. By that I mean that the general consensus was to go in and do something. There was a serious problem going on, and something had to be done. I don't necessarily agree with how we did it though. Iraq was a completely different story. We went in with guns blazing, and without a real plan. I don't get the same shady feelings with Libya.

As for closing GITMO, that's more of a personal thing. If someone wants it to stay open, I respect their opinion. I don't really think anyone knows what the best thing to do down there is.

My decision to support Obama was deeply personal. It was the first time I decided to vote for the good of myself over the good of my country. I was in very dire financial straits during the 08 campaign. Tax breaks for fathers paying child support was CRITICAL to me. And it's stalled. There's zero effort being applied to it right now as far as I can tell. And as hard as it is for many to keep their households up with rising gas prices, food prices, and everything else, it's doubly difficult for those of us maintaining two households. I really feel like we're the forgotten poor. And the idea that white males have it made, when so many of us are maintaining two households, severely pisses me off.

You took the best player available. Sometimes you get a Hall of Famer, and sometimes you get a bust. It takes time. That doesn't mean that you have no reason to be upset. Obama's performance has benefited some and hurt some. The idea that there is a single right and wrong answer is...wrong. It's all relative.

[Teller]

I hear you and I want that too, but you have to admit that he simply isn't able to wave that wand and make everything happen, we still want comprehensive immigration reform and we still haven't gotten it yet, we want completely out of Iraq and Afghanistan and we don't have that, we want Gitmo closed and we don't get that either, I believe that we need to go back to the Clinton era tax rate but that will never happen, and now that we're back into campaign mode not much is going to get done but posturing and pandering. So vote for Obama in 2012 and we'll work on getting the things then that we didn't get this term.

All respect bro, but why should I believe that now, when he had both houses of Congress and it didn't happen? I mean, when you control all of DC, and you can't get your agenda through (if it WAS his agenda), why expect it now?

I do appreciate your comments about wanting to see similar changes though. I'm sure we'd quibble on the details, but I like hearing that we have similar concerns. I just wish we could find someone who could speak to us both. In spite of our differences, I see you as slightly left of center-left. I think I'm slightly right of center-right. And I think most Americans fall in the range between us. But in this era of political points trumping actual productivity, I think we'll both be disappointed in the immediate future.

---------- Post added April-28th-2011 at 01:26 AM ----------

I didn't necessarily mean anything racial by what I said, but it plays a part i suppose. I've never seen a group of people hate a man like the right hates Obama. Whether it's his race, his viewpoints, or his citizenship, people just flat out loathe the guy. The fact that he's in the White House just makes things worse. That's what I meant.

Sorry if I was overly-defensive. I would nit-pick just a little though. I think the far right hates Obama. No question. But I consider myself a fairly moderate republican. I don't hate the man. I think his heart is very pure, and I don't think he's a bad person at all. I have serious policy issues with him, especially on those things I mentioned that he said he would do, but I absolutely do not see him as a "bad" human being.

However, while we're talking about Obama and race, I was going to school in rural Shippensburg, PA during the campaigns. I've never heard more racist things than I did in 2008, even from my roommates. I'll never forget one of them yelling "I'd rather die than have a ****** president!" The racists are a small percentage of the haters, but I think they had a lot to do with the ideas that people latched on to in opposition of Obama.

Ok, those people? Yeah. I would "hate" them.

I see Libya as different because we weren't the only ones who wanted to intervene. By that I mean that the general consensus was to go in and do something. There was a serious problem going on, and something had to be done. I don't necessarily agree with how we did it though. Iraq was a completely different story. We went in with guns blazing, and without a real plan. I don't get the same shady feelings with Libya.

Qadaffi was the OT (original terrorist) in my lifetime. I have no love lost for him whatsoever. I fully support the people of Libya. Just like I fully support the people of Iran who want change too. What frustrates me about those situations, is that we were given the impression during the campaign that American presence in the Middle East creates terrorists and martyrs. It wasn't qualified. Maybe it should have been. So while I support the mission in Libya, it seems a little phony given the rhetoric before this situation arose.

And I get the opposing view point, but if my president hadn't done something when Saddam booted the weapons inspectors after 9/11, I would have been furious. So while the situations are markedly different, the potential for criticism is very similar, IMO.

As for closing GITMO, that's more of a personal thing. If someone wants it to stay open, I respect their opinion. I don't really think anyone knows what the best thing to do down there is.

Respect. That's all I'm gonna say about that.

[AsburySkinsFan]

All respect bro, but why should I believe that now, when he had both houses of Congress and it didn't happen? I mean, when you control all of DC, and you can't get your agenda through (if it WAS his agenda), why expect it now?

Oh come on now, you don't even believe that the 60 Democrats in the Senate were as unified as the GOP wants us to think they were....seriously. There is a reason the Left hates the Blue Dog Dems and calls them DINOs, so let's just drop the whole myth that those 60 votes were even for a minute going to march lockstep with the President, that is a Republican operation and for one thing I have to hand it to them they certainly know how to get their members to tow the party line.

I do appreciate your comments about wanting to see similar changes though. I'm sure we'd quibble on the details, but I like hearing that we have similar concerns. I just wish we could find someone who could speak to us both. In spite of our differences, I see you as slightly left of center-left. I think I'm slightly right of center-right. And I think most Americans fall in the range between us. But in this era of political points trumping actual productivity, I think we'll both be disappointed in the immediate future.

Agreed on all counts, which is why I don't think either of us will find a candidate that we really want because we aren't Libertarians nor Leftists which means that the candidates that will be closest to us will come from the two parties, but they spend so much time pandering to their bases that we can't stomach voting for them.

[Teller]

Oh come on now, you don't even believe that the 60 Democrats in the Senate were as unified as the GOP wants us to think they were....seriously. There is a reason the Left hates the Blue Dog Dems and calls them DINOs, so let's just drop the whole myth that those 60 votes were even for a minute going to march lockstep with the President, that is a Republican operation and for one thing I have to hand it to them they certainly know how to get their members to tow the party line.

What kind of leader can't accomplish any damned thing with every last vote he needs to push through what he wants to push through? What kind of leader can't pull 2 or 3 votes from the other side? Seriously. If you can say "Wah. We couldn't do anything because we only had 60 members in the senate," you fail. Period.

Agreed on all counts, which is why I don't think either of us will find a candidate that we really want because we aren't Libertarians nor Leftists which means that the candidates that will be closest to us will come from the two parties, but they spend so much time pandering to their bases that we can't stomach voting for them.

Amen and amen.