Westbrook36 Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 July 2008 through March 2009, the country is on the brink of financial collapse. Banks made huge bets and now would all collapse unless drastic actions were taken. Government decides not to put all the crooks in jail (not one bank executive responsible for the largest financial disaster in history go to jail). At that time, certain banks who are deemed worthy or perhaps have mightily contributed to the government are allowed to remain and are given 2.8 trillion dollars of government tax dollars through various means. 0 percent lending rate equates to the same interest rates before the crash. Your average consumer is simply raped. Over the next 2 years, spending on a level that could never be dreamed of occurs. The market recovers. Sheeple think things are ok because the country has not ceased to exist. Most people go back to their normal routine. Unemployment stays from the 9-10 percent range. QE1 and QE2 is the largest heist of American wealth in terms of value of the dollar which was brazenly sunk on purpose for various reasons and also future debt placed upon future generations. Even with trillions spent ensuring that every person possible was placed on the government teet, nothing really changes. Right now, close to 3 trillion dollars is given to individuals in order to survive and for the country to not implode. Fed Funding rate is still at 0. If they could put it at a negative number, they would. The markets would rocket more. Still, the economy is in shambles. Food and fuel prices are off the charts. Anytime in recorded history that income spent on food and fuel are both over 6 percent of total income, the country has went into a deep recession/depression. Right now both numbers are well over 6 percent. Anything the government does will **** the country. They all know it. Tax more, country ****ed. Raise the prime lending rate, country ****ed. Reduce the outlays of trillions of dollars which is the only income (borrowed against future generations) and the country is ****ed. Now we have people talking about reducing the deficit. It is impossible. To do so ensures a quick painful collapse. No one wants to be held responsible. So we will simply blow the balloon bigger and bigger until there is no other option other than a collapse of the entire world economy. Math says this will happen. Logic says this will happen. The politicians are trying to buy time and are hoping for a miracle. One which is impossible. No one can accept the cold hard math. The American way of life is not sustainable. We either reduce our standard of living, or we reduce the amount of people. We will all go down with the ship, and both will happen in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 I'll certainly agree that the economy is still fragile. No, I don't believe that it's completely impossible to even touch the steering wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 12th Commandment Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 The Robber Bankers. They'll get the name eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACW Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 So it's a quarter-assed theory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Why exactly is the American way of life not sustainable? Why not simply go back to demand side economics and heavy wall street regulation that worked well and took this country from a stable democracy to a world super power in terms of economy and military? The lesson in all this is that supply side works wonders for a short period of time to boost economic activity when needed. It does not however work as the rule. We've cut income taxes and kept them low. We've openly allowed companies to offshore jobs and profits to avoid paying us any taxes at all.... and here we are wondering if yet another tax cut is the fix we need to get things going again. It doesn't work long term and the result has been a massive wealth gap opening up. For fun: look up what percentage of total wealth the top 10% in the US own. The deregulation of the financial services industry has brought modern economies to the brink. Speculation and financial products embedded with toxic risk are rampant in every major economy now. We allowed banking to swallow up all elements of the financial industry and create massive companies that "can't fail" without tearing down a massive segment of the economy. Almost no economy was able to avoid damage from the near collapse that recently occurred. What happens when the next one is too big to bail out? This is suicidal planning at the top! Democrats and Republicans are both in bed with Wall Street to the point where trying to separate government from financial companies is nearly impossible. Look who they hire to run the Fed, the regulatory agencies, and the GSE's? Both are more than willing to take the US on a path to ruin to win elections. One slashing revenue without the cuts needed to pay for it, the other by increasing spending without the revenue to pay for it. Different tactic same result, spiraling out of control debt. In the end who is to blame? The Voter. You vote for services or tax policy the nation can't afford. Would you vote for someone that wanted to raise your taxes, regulate the hell out of banks causing fees to increase, and cut spending? Even if you say yes, do you think 51% would agree with you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRSmith Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 If the American way of life is taxes that are too low and a system where people think it is good that a a small percentage of the population controls the majority of the wealth then no it is not. If the American way of life is one where people work toward the good of one another then it can succeed. Oh and I as stated before your dollar lost more value in the 8 years of Bush than QE1 and QE2 have done The dollar lost 30 cents in trading against forieng currency from when Clinton left office until Bush did the change so far has only been 10 cents under Obama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixcuincle Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Hmm. Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Why exactly is the American way of life not sustainable? Why not simply go back to demand side economics and heavy wall street regulation that worked well and took this country from a stable democracy to a world super power in terms of economy and military? we know why,,, because the people that would affect are the folks who have tilted the board in their favor, and they have the money to keep it that way. they can afford to buy friendly government. Their marks... er.. typical American citizens, can't. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endzone_dave Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Cut back on medical benefits, legalize drugs, hike up the taxes on people making $5M+ per year, gradually reduce the amount spent on DoD, eliminate farm subsidies, cut WAY back on funding the arts, and cut the fat out of our education system. It might not balance the budget but it would be much closer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Cut back on medical benefits, legalize drugs, hike up the taxes on people making $5M+ per year, gradually reduce the amount spent on DoD, eliminate farm subsidies, cut WAY back on funding the arts, and cut the fat out of our education system. It might not balance the budget but it would be much closer. You are cordially invited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 It is not at all impossible. Just unlikely because of the huge hole we have dug. Americans that feel they have no reason to be held accountable for their choices is part of the reason, along with bailing out companies and people that won't accept the fact that they have to deal with the mistakes they made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 we know why,,, because the people that would affect are the folks who have tilted the board in their favor, and they have the money to keep it that way.they can afford to buy friendly government. Their marks... er.. typical American citizens, don't. ~Bang No, because the American life style was built on a once in the world event (i.e. WWII) that created conditions that couldn't be sustained (well, they could have been, but doing so would have been morally repugnant). In addition to that, I think it has to do with the way that technology has changed the world making it impossible for Americans to maintain the standard of living vs. other countries. ---------- Post added April-25th-2011 at 09:26 PM ---------- I think some politicians are simply trying to stall. If we are lucky and get another tech boom like in the 1990s and some leadership that understands what is happening (and for example doesn't think they have reinvented the business cycle), then you might be able to ease back without it being a disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Destino, I'll tell you why. It's called the aftermath of debt. Not federal debt. Private debt. You talk about demand-side economics. I agree with you on many counts. Well, increased leverage across an entire economy artificially increases demand. An Australian economist named Steve Keen has put together a lot of work about exactly how this works, and how it's distorted every part of the modern global economy. I suggest you look him up. He has a very informative website. You'll have to sort through some stuff that's specific to Australia, but trust me, he writes quite a bit about America and the world economy as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Simple, reduce the population. Starting with anyone over 65. You'd cut plenty costs right there. :evilg: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselPwr44 Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Simple, reduce the population. Starting with anyone over 65. You'd cut plenty costs right there. :evilg: 8Sp-VFBbjpE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westbrook36 Posted April 26, 2011 Author Share Posted April 26, 2011 We are ****ed. We have created an entitled society where your average American who doesn't contribute **** to anything feels that they deserve anything and everything. "What? I am 70 years old, grossly overweight due to my own negligence and I have smoked for 40 years; how dare you say that you are denying me free coverage to heart surgery which will extend my pitiful life 3 years at a cost of 600k? This is America!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 We are ****ed. We have created an entitled society where your average American who doesn't contribute **** to anything feels that they deserve anything and everything. We're ****ed. We have created an entitlement society in which people think that sound bites and slogans are more important than reality, and who think that the biggest problem the country has is that poor people don't just die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 We have created an entitlement society in which people think that sound bites and slogans are more important than reality, and who think that the biggest problem the country has is that one political side believes the other side wants their own family and friends dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 WB...what exactly do you mean by "doesn't contribute **** to anything" in your post above? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westbrook36 Posted April 26, 2011 Author Share Posted April 26, 2011 WB...what exactly do you mean by "doesn't contribute **** to anything" in your post above? ****, I don't know. Probably one of the 49 percent of Americans who pay no taxes. Probably doesn't do anything but suck off the government's teet. Probably will vote for people that will enable their piss poor behavior until the country implodes. Probably destroys their body via booze, food and nicotine and will expect someone to clean up their mess when they get older and their useless bodies start to break down. Man, you thought you were putting me on the spot, didn't you? I know in America nowadays, it is looked down upon when you simply tell the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 ****, I don't know. Probably one of the 49 percent of Americans who pay no taxes. Probably doesn't do anything but suck off the government's teet. Probably will vote for people that will enable their piss poor behavior until the country implodes. Probably destroys their body via booze, food and nicotine and will expect someone to clean up their mess when they get older and their useless bodies start to break down.Man, you thought you were putting me on the spot, didn't you? I know in America nowadays, it is looked down upon when you simply tell the truth. Take a breath. Your assumptions are pretty fun to work around...I didn't think I was putting you on the spot at all. I was curious to whom you were referring. I generally agree with you, but the fact that you're lumping everyone into one category makes it a tough, binary stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Probably one of the 49 percent of Americans who pay no taxes. Untrue. I know in America nowadays, it is looked down upon when you simply tell the truth. Is that why you don't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westbrook36 Posted April 26, 2011 Author Share Posted April 26, 2011 Untrue. Is that why you don't? You are right, it's only a mere 47 percent. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/14/business/economy/14leonhardt.html You blew up my entire premise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 You are right, it's only a mere 47 percent. It's closer to zero. Try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 You are right, it's only a mere 47 percent.http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/14/business/economy/14leonhardt.html You blew up my entire premise. It's closer to zero. Try again. Wait...WB, are you talking about people who don't owe taxes? I thought you were blaming people who owe but don't pay. To me, that's completely different. We're blaming someone for getting a refund or not making enough money to owe? That's smart... The behavioral aspect of your rant, I can understand. I still think it's too cut and dry, but I get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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