Rumor - Redskins Already Have 2 Trade-Down Pacts In Place To Gain a 2nd Rounder

[TheismannQuote]

Seems like I hear and read this every year. Next year will be the same story. "Outside of Luck, this QB class is mediocre. Wait until next year." Then next year comes around....."This year's QB class is mediocre, wait until next year." I remember when people were saying "This QB class is not that great, wait for next year when Locker comes out."

Bingo.

I'm starting to think that if the Redskins can't move from 10 and are stuck with what QB options are left at 41 (w/o trying to trade UP) .... why not sit on what you have (Beck) and look to the outted FA Quarterbacks. I feel like we're seeing some hints that they may go in that direction...at least it has been discussed.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Seems like I hear and read this every year. Next year will be the same story. "Outside of Luck, this QB class is mediocre. Wait until next year." Then next year comes around....."This year's QB class is mediocre, wait until next year." I remember when people were saying "This QB class is not that great, wait for next year when Locker comes out."

100% exactly. every year its "this class sucks, wait til next year when (insert guy who might suck badly next year and fall out of favor) is coming out, hes a surefire pro bowler!"

its gonna be a gamble any year, we've got the 10th pick which isnt THAT important (its not in the top 5), its time to gamble. locker or gabbert if theyre there for sure.

[GaryGreenMonk]

Well - basically - you have the Washington Redskins. Tough to throw all the mud on the scouting department.

I agree. I used to want to throw the scouting department under the bus, but Vinnie was running the show throwing away draft picks and had no real plan or system in place with rotating head coaches. Now scouts can be told.. this is what we want at these positions. There's a plan, a goal, and a system. I hope.

---------- Post added April-25th-2011 at 01:05 PM ----------

Bingo.why not sit on what you have (Beck) and look to the outted FA Quarterbacks.

because that still doesn't address our future at QB. Even if Beck was the starting QB from day 1 this year.. you'd get 5 years out of him. Beck is not a background project.. not at 30 years old. We should have given him a shot last year to see what he has, if it was something.. you could get 5-6 years out of him. If you keep Grossman or get a FA QB and Beck sits there as #2.. what happens in 3 years? who'd have a washed up FA and Beck who at 33 years old has never started an NFL game.

[S.T.real,lights,out]

100% exactly. every year its "this class sucks, wait til next year when (insert guy who might suck badly next year and fall out of favor) is coming out, hes a surefire pro bowler!"

its gonna be a gamble any year, we've got the 10th pick which isnt THAT important (its not in the top 5), its time to gamble. locker or gabbert if theyre there for sure.

I agree sooner or later we need to pull the trigger and go after the biggest/most important position on the team. And i guess if Shanny really likes Locker even at 10 i guess id be ok with that seeing how he might go to the Vikes @ 12. I dont think thats too much of a reach. It would just be nice for a change to finally have a stable QB who we know will be there for the next 5-10 years.

[Truant]

100% exactly. every year its "this class sucks, wait til next year when (insert guy who might suck badly next year and fall out of favor) is coming out, hes a surefire pro bowler!"

its gonna be a gamble any year, we've got the 10th pick which isnt THAT important (its not in the top 5), its time to gamble. locker or gabbert if theyre there for sure.

Does Mike Mayock say this every year?

“The problem is that they all have holes,” Mayock said. “It's a tough one. It's the hardest quarterback class I have ever evaluated.”

[wildbill1952]

The problem hasn't been getting a QB. After Ramsey, Brunell, Campbell and McNabb (two the Skins drafted in the first round, two they spent picks on) the Skins never followed up with drafting the supporting cast. They let the OL get older and depth (those guys that come in when the first string player is inevitably injured) was any warm body that could wear a uniform (Heyer, Hicks). With Brown gone the Skins are back to a choice of Heyer, Hicks or Capers at right tackle. Using any of those will not bode well for the offense, or whoever the next QB is. The two guards improved to the point they might be good depth, but still don't look like starters, and Rabach is way over the hill and is manhandled by every NT the Skins play.

I expect the same thing if the Skins draft yet another QB. Next year's call will be for the next stud RB, DT, LB - anybody but OL. Drafting a QB and passing on the OL will have the Skins back in three years looking for the next QB in a long line of failures. At some point the Skins have to draft OL in higher rounds - not the popular pick, but the one that will bring results. We already have plenty of 7th round OL - those that got drafted and never saw the playing field in Capers and Cook. Time to move up the food chain and find some with more talent and less work required to be useful.

If the Skins get a QB, then they need to follow through with the supporting cast.

[Sawyer5500]

The problem hasn't been getting a QB. After Ramsey, Brunell, Campbell and McNabb (two the Skins drafted in the first round, two they spent picks on) the Skins never followed up with drafting the supporting cast. They let the OL get older and depth (those guys that come in when the first string player is inevitably injured) was any warm body that could wear a uniform (Heyer, Hicks). With Brown gone the Skins are back to a choice of Heyer, Hicks or Capers at right tackle. Using any of those will not bode well for the offense, or whoever the next QB is. The two guards improved to the point they might be good depth, but still don't look like starters, and Rabach is way over the hill and is manhandled by every NT the Skins play.

I expect the same thing if the Skins draft yet another QB. Next year's call will be for the next stud RB, DT, LB - anybody but OL. Drafting a QB and passing on the OL will have the Skins back in three years looking for the next QB in a long line of failures. At some point the Skins have to draft OL in higher rounds - not the popular pick, but the one that will bring results. We already have plenty of 7th round OL - those that got drafted and never saw the playing field in Capers and Cook. Time to move up the food chain and find some with more talent and less work required to be useful.

If the Skins get a QB, then they need to follow through with the supporting cast.

I think we are pretty much expected to sign Ryan Harris once free agency starts so that takes care of the tackles. We do need upgrades at every interior spot except for maybe Lichtensteiger. We just dont have enough free agencies and picks to fix this team in one or two years. We need a 3-5 year rebuilding plan. This team is a mess. But one thing is for sure --- when you don't have a franchise QB you draft a QB every year until you have one.

[Madison Redskin]

Seems like I hear and read this every year. Next year will be the same story. "Outside of Luck, this QB class is mediocre. Wait until next year." Then next year comes around....."This year's QB class is mediocre, wait until next year." I remember when people were saying "This QB class is not that great, wait for next year when Locker comes out."

I don't think that's necessarily true. A lot of people liked Bradford last year, but didn't want to shell out two first round picks (or more) to acquire him. In your opinion, is Newton, Gabbert, or Locker worth the 10th overall pick, or the 10th overall pick and a first next year?

In my opinion, none of those guys are worth the 10th overall pick and we should draft the BPA. If you're drafting based on need and "reaching," you're setting your franchise up for failure.

[drtdrums]

If you grade these QBs with other years before and after, this class takes shape: A lot of intriguing prospects but no clear-cut potential star. There are more "ifs" with even Gabbert than, say, Bradford, Stafford (who I'm not a fan of), etc.

There is not a QB worthy of a #10 pick that will fall to us (Gabbert is the only one, imo). There are defensive players and WR's worthy of a #10 pick that will fall to us. There are also QBs worthy of a second rounder that will fall to us there, and QBs worthy of a 5th rounder that will fall to us there.

Drafting a QB based solely on need right now is not a good idea when we can draft BPA and address needs that are just as pressing simultaneously. We need a pass rusher, nose tackle, right tackle, corner, wide receiver, running back, eventual replacement for London, center, guard....(not necessarily in that order)

Pass rusher and NT are going to be just as crucial as QB for us. A franchise shutdown corner would also be a big deal (not happening this draft unless we have guys on a radar I don't know about and trade to the 12-14 spot and the corners there are better than I think).

No professional scout is sold on Locker's ability. There are some who think he'll probably be pretty good, some who think he'll probably be pretty bad. Feedback for Dalton is more positive across the board. Kaepernick intrigued me til I saw him play -- then I saw why most scouts have him lower than most "draft experts" (horrid footwork, narrow base). One thing I don't understand is that I also am hearing most scouts hate Cam Newton and think he's a poisoned pill for a franchise yet he's consistently considered one of the top 2 QBs in this draft. *shrug*

No one knows right now. But there are too many good reasons to *not* overreach for a QB at #10.

[Cen Tex Skins]

The problem hasn't been getting a QB. After Ramsey, Brunell, Campbell and McNabb (two the Skins drafted in the first round, two they spent picks on) the Skins never followed up with drafting the supporting cast. They let the OL get older and depth (those guys that come in when the first string player is inevitably injured) was any warm body that could wear a uniform (Heyer, Hicks). With Brown gone the Skins are back to a choice of Heyer, Hicks or Capers at right tackle. Using any of those will not bode well for the offense, or whoever the next QB is. The two guards improved to the point they might be good depth, but still don't look like starters, and Rabach is way over the hill and is manhandled by every NT the Skins play.

I expect the same thing if the Skins draft yet another QB. Next year's call will be for the next stud RB, DT, LB - anybody but OL. Drafting a QB and passing on the OL will have the Skins back in three years looking for the next QB in a long line of failures. At some point the Skins have to draft OL in higher rounds - not the popular pick, but the one that will bring results. We already have plenty of 7th round OL - those that got drafted and never saw the playing field in Capers and Cook. Time to move up the food chain and find some with more talent and less work required to be useful.

If the Skins get a QB, then they need to follow through with the supporting cast.

Amen! I have no problem drafting Locker in the 1st but get the man some help.Capers and Cook are fine for depth but we need Pouncey,Wisnewski,Costanza type players up front if we are going to succeed.If we can grab a Guard or Center in the 2nd.then Ryan Harris in FA(whenever it starts)I'll be happy.

[Lavarleap56]

Just to update: there is still no decision made on trading down or not and it isn't option 1.

[GaryGreenMonk]

At some point the Skins have to draft OL in higher rounds - not the popular pick, but the one that will bring results.

We drafted a LT with the first rounder last year. OT's LT/RT are really the only positions on the OL that should be drafted in the first round.

We are sort of taking a gamble at the moment at RT that Jamal Brown keeps improving and works out for us.

But that said.. There's only 1 OT potentially going in the top 15 this year and he's bulky 315lbs so he wouldn't really fit the zone blocking scheme.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Does Mike Mayock say this every year?

“The problem is that they all have holes,” Mayock said. “It's a tough one. It's the hardest quarterback class I have ever evaluated.”

youd have to go back thru every draft hes covered and dig thru millions of quotes. my guess is hes said similar things a lot of the years.

the point is we have a huge need for a QB, we have a pick that isnt the end of the world if we bust, we have so many holes that we wont get them all filled, and we need to start trying a QB sooner than later. by not drafting a QB this year all were doing is adding one more year that we wont be competitive.

[AKM311]

Locker has too much development that needs to be done to draft at 10. If we are drafting at 10, that QB better be ready to start in year 2. Based on what I have read from Mayock and others that I think do a good job, he needs 2-3 years before he can start.

He needs to go to a team like Indy, NE, or something. That way he can sit for 3 years behind some of the best and learn the game. DC is not the best situation for him.

These are my 2 cents.

[RedskinsTime]

Just to update: there is still no decision made on trading down or not and it isn't option 1.

LL, is there any situation where the Skins would take Locker at 10 if Quinn is off the board?

[Diesel Hog]

Would it be such a bad thing to trade down, not worry about a QB this year, and focus solely on the O-Line, D-Line, and Linebackers? Build in a solid foundation in the trenches, then worry about playmakers at QB, WR, RB, CB later....Just saying, I really don't mind the idea of trading down, getting an extra pick, and building depth on the lines and LBs.

[AKM311]

youd have to go back thru every draft hes covered and dig thru millions of quotes. my guess is hes said similar things a lot of the years.

the point is we have a huge need for a QB, we have a pick that isnt the end of the world if we bust, we have so many holes that we wont get them all filled, and we need to start trying a QB sooner than later. by not drafting a QB this year all were doing is adding one more year that we wont be competitive.

I agree with most of this, outside of the "we wont be competitive". We won't be competitive this year regardless of if we draft a qb.

I don't think we should take a QB at 10. If we trade down, absolutely. Otherwise take the best play at 10, because there will be some that drop.

Edit: This is assuming Gabbert is gone by 10.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

I agree with most of this, outside of the "we wont be competitive". We won't be competitive this year regardless of if we draft a qb.

I don't think we should take a QB at 10. If we trade down, absolutely. Otherwise take the best play at 10, because there will be some that drop.

Edit: This is assuming Gabbert is gone by 10.

the point is we are just delaying the QB process. its rare that you draft a QB and start him from day one, and its highly doubtful we do this regardless who we draft (unless we plan on drafting #1 overall). not taking a QB means we have to take one next year or the year after, and just further delay the process. no matter how good our lines or WR or RB or defense is, without a QB we will not be a true contender. we gotta get the QB situation figured out ASAP, and waiting another year is just bad.

say we wait a year, and we go 7-9 or 6-10 again, what great QB is gonna be there at the 9-11th pick? the only QBs that are ever considered cant miss are the first couple picks, and either some of you want us to trade the farm for that guy, or hope we do bad enough to draft there. i dont want either one to happen.

we take locker or gabbert we dont need to worry about QB for at least 3 seasons, and in that time we can spend all the picks in the universe on olineman and dlineman and linebackers and WRs, all while we develop that QB. even if he busts, its 1 draft pick lost while we still used the rest building up the team around him, so when we go to find a QB again, the overall team around that new rookie should be better anyways.

[Skinsinparadise]

Just to update: there is still no decision made on trading down or not and it isn't option 1.

I read Shanny talking possibly about trading down with their 2nd rounder if they add picks maybe that's where they thinking. If so don't see how they get one of the 2nd tier QBs unless they use their first rounder on one.

[Lavarleap56]

LL, is there any situation where the Skins would take Locker at 10 if Quinn is off the board?

From what I've heard to this point,no.

[bedlamVR]

youd have to go back thru every draft hes covered and dig thru millions of quotes. my guess is hes said similar things a lot of the years.

the point is we have a huge need for a QB, we have a pick that isnt the end of the world if we bust, we have so many holes that we wont get them all filled, and we need to start trying a QB sooner than later. by not drafting a QB this year all were doing is adding one more year that we wont be competitive.

I agree with you . You need to take the plunge with someone at some point . ... If you look long and hard enough at anyone you will come up with reasons not to take them . Hell if we had been picking No.1. last year we could have talked ourselves out of Bradford .

Personally I have been back and forth on this but for my money there is a certain something about Locker that makes me think he will be a good one if he is given the right situation and the right coaching . I can understand what LL says about McNabb putting people off the mobile inaccurate QB but 40-42 passes at his pro day is pretty impressive and I have to think that Kyle and Donavon Had more than football skills problems which lead to his benching - and remember McNabb was well on his way to 4000 yards before it all hit the fan so was effective in this offense .

[Destructis]

Just to update: there is still no decision made on trading down or not and it isn't option 1.

So what is option 1?

[AKM311]

the point is we are just delaying the QB process. its rare that you draft a QB and start him from day one, and its highly doubtful we do this regardless who we draft (unless we plan on drafting #1 overall). not taking a QB means we have to take one next year or the year after, and just further delay the process. no matter how good our lines or WR or RB or defense is, without a QB we will not be a true contender. we gotta get the QB situation figured out ASAP, and waiting another year is just bad.

say we wait a year, and we go 7-9 or 6-10 again, what great QB is gonna be there at the 9-11th pick? the only QBs that are ever considered cant miss are the first couple picks, and either some of you want us to trade the farm for that guy, or hope we do bad enough to draft there. i dont want either one to happen.

we take locker or gabbert we dont need to worry about QB for at least 3 seasons, and in that time we can spend all the picks in the universe on olineman and dlineman and linebackers and WRs, all while we develop that QB. even if he busts, its 1 draft pick lost while we still used the rest building up the team around him, so when we go to find a QB again, the overall team around that new rookie should be better anyways.

Like I said, I agree with you on drafting one. I just don't think we should draft one at 10, just to draft one. Trade down or pick one with our 2nd.

What your saying reminds me of an argument I had with my cousin on the house market. He was buying a house and said I am going to have to buy eventually, so I am going to buy now because waiting just makes me waste money on rent. I said you rather drop $20k in rent for the year instead of buying something where you could lose your entire down payment if the house value drops.

He bought the house instead and now is $120k down on the value of the house.

The Skins really need to make sure they are getting the correct value, because reaching will only increase the chance the player busts. Too much expectation for a guy at 10 vs. a guy at 20. That will lead to rushing him on to the field, whether he is ready or not.

[authentic]

So what is option 1?

I'm thinking Quinn may be option #1 if he's available, then #2 may be trading down if he's gone. Hopefully i haven't read things wrong from the "leaf" gang.

[AKM311]

So what is option 1?

Quinn