Rumor - Redskins Already Have 2 Trade-Down Pacts In Place To Gain a 2nd Rounder

[Clutch03]

I'm not a college football guru at all. I catch a game here and there. But I amazed by the fact that people are saying drafting Locker would be a "collasal mistake". Wasn't this the same guy that last year everyone was saying we should draft when he comes out this year? I can only imagine what will be said about Luck next year when he declares. Some folks will likely have him on Matt Linert status.

I just don't understand how a player can fall so far from grace in people's eyes over a year. Was he that horrible? Again maybe this is my ignorance of the collegiate game. It may also be the reason I don't follow it too much because things change so much between each year its hard to keep up.

[LightningBuggs]

exactly, i dont remember this at all. at his pro day he supposedly missed on one pass that was a bomb.

we need a QB and he fits best for what were doing. gotta roll the dice. guys drafted past round 1 rarely work out and when they do its pretty much dumb luck. weve been over the numbers and they equate to first round QBs rule the roost. time to take the plunge again until we find one.

Why do the Skins have to roll the dice this year on a very iffy QB class when next year's class promises to be much better? This Skins team has MANY holes, a couple of which can be filled in rounds 1 and 2 with more certain talents. DE is loaded in this year's draft. That's a Skins need. WR is a need. One of the 2 elite ones may be available.

As for Locker, I could care less about his scripted pro days and practices. In actual games, he's been terrible. That's really all that matters to me. In fact, his youtube clips are of him running more than half the time. Is that gonna be our franchise QB for the next decade?

I will say it til I'm blue in the face. Drafting him would be up there with the Shuler pick....AKA A colossal mistake.

[Gibbsisgod2006]

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/14594545/same-locker-new-kaepernick-at-senior-bowl-practice

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/football/nfl/01/24/senior.bowl.monday/index.html

Although, I haven't seen any rankings on how he matched up compared to other quarterbacks.

Locker is an inaccurate passer due to his footwork and stance when he is in the pocket this can be corrected. Locker is one of the accurate passer on the run. I was listening to the first draft podcast and Kiper said that Locker had a passer rating around 72.0 when he was outside the pocket and McShay agreed with that statement and said a scout told him the same thing.

[LightningBuggs]

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/14594545/same-locker-new-kaepernick-at-senior-bowl-practice

Contrast with Kaepernick who faced the same timing hurdles.

Locker was inconsistant all week, good one day, horrible the next. (Monday - Bad, Tuesday - Good, Weds - Bad)

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/27/senior-bowl-day-3-risers-fallers-and-steady-as-they-go/

And the most impressive QB to come out of Mobile was not Locker, it was Ponder.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Senior-Bowl-South-team-wins-Ponder-finally-set?urn=nfl-314184

Thanks for posting this. Good info in there.

[lavarisgone]

I'm not a college football guru at all. I catch a game here and there. But I amazed by the fact that people are saying drafting Locker would be a "collasal mistake". Wasn't this the same guy that last year everyone was saying we should draft when he comes out this year? I can only imagine what will be said about Luck next year when he declares. Some folks will likely have him on Matt Linert status.

I just don't understand how a player can fall so far from grace in people's eyes over a year. Was he that horrible? Again maybe this is my ignorance of the collegiate game. It may also be the reason I don't follow it too much because things change so much between each year its hard to keep up.

I don't think it would be a collasal mistake, if he's taken from pick 20 +, at 10 is reaching. IMO

[GibbsFactor]

Again, his senior bowl was disappointing in that he was at the time considered a top 10 pick. He's not any more but to say his week was a complete joke is, again, unfair and inaccurate. Lande shows his incompetence by saying that Jake has good mechanics and still has poor accuracy. Most other draftniks say his footwork (mechanics) are the reason for his inaccuracy. He's accurate in open space, so he can be accurate. Footwork is the easiest trait to fix. Plus, comparing the South QBs to the North is a little unfair as well given that the south clearly had the better team.

I'm not a college football guru at all. I catch a game here and there. But I amazed by the fact that people are saying drafting Locker would be a "collasal mistake". Wasn't this the same guy that last year everyone was saying we should draft when he comes out this year? I can only imagine what will be said about Luck next year when he declares. Some folks will likely have him on Matt Linert status.

I just don't understand how a player can fall so far from grace in people's eyes over a year. Was he that horrible? Again maybe this is my ignorance of the collegiate game. It may also be the reason I don't follow it too much because things change so much between each year its hard to keep up.

In Locker's first year (his junior season) in a pro style offense, he displayed a lot of potential. In his senior season, people expected to see his numbers improve. While his team did improve to go and win a bowl game (against a very tough Nebraska team mind you) his numbers actually dipped causing people to back off on his potential bandwagon.

[The Tris]

Locker is an inaccurate passer due to his footwork and stance when he is in the pocket this can be corrected.

Not saying it can't be corrected, but if it was such an easy fix, wouldn't you think that the premier college QB coach (Steve Sarkasian) would have been able to if not fix it, improve it to some degree in his two years coaching Locker?

[lavarisgone]

I'm not a college football guru at all. I catch a game here and there. But I amazed by the fact that people are saying drafting Locker would be a "collasal mistake". Wasn't this the same guy that last year everyone was saying we should draft when he comes out this year? I can only imagine what will be said about Luck next year when he declares. Some folks will likely have him on Matt Linert status.

I just don't understand how a player can fall so far from grace in people's eyes over a year. Was he that horrible? Again maybe this is my ignorance of the collegiate game. It may also be the reason I don't follow it too much because things change so much between each year its hard to keep up.

I don't think it would be a collasal mistake, if he's taken from pick 20 +, at 10 is reaching. IMO

[The Tris]

Lande shows his incompetence by saying that Jake has good mechanics and still has poor accuracy. Most other draftniks say his footwork (mechanics) are the reason for his inaccuracy.

Mechanics refer to throwing motion. Footwork is something completely different.

Footwork is the easiest trait to fix.

Says who? If so, why did his college coach (who has had success with every QB he has ever coached prior to Locker) have such a hard time fixing it?

Could it be that correcting a formed athletic motion that he has used his whole life is more difficult than snapping ones fingers?

[Gibbsisgod2006]

Not saying it can't be corrected, but if it was such an easy fix, wouldn't you think that the premier college QB coach (Steve Sarkasian) would have been able to if not fix it, improve it to some degree in his two years coaching Locker?

I total agree I am repeating what Gruden said on a Washington Post Insider articles:

"Gruden, who spent time with Locker as part of his ESPN QB Camp, said he believes Locker has the intangibles to be a winning NFL passer, and says that his accuracy problems can be corrected.

“Accuracy can be improved,” Gruden says. “Sometimes it’s because of your fundamentals, sometimes you’re out of rhythm, you’re in the shotgun, you’re underneath the center. Sometimes you’re under duress. You’re hurrying; you’re playing too fast. You’re anticipating congestion around you when there isn’t. I just think he needs to go back to his fundamentals and work hard at that. He’ll get the right position coach and he’ll work hard at that."

“But accuracy sometimes can be terminal and you can’t cure that. I think that’s a big concern with Jake Locker,” Gruden admits. “But if you pick up the Southern Cal game film from this past year, you pick up the Oregon State film from this year, you can see what this guy is capable of doing. He can be a one-man wrecking crew, this guy. There’s a brilliant talent inside this body he’s got and it’s a matter of regaining his fundamentals, his confidence and composure, and he’ll be fine.”

[The Tris]

Gruden has done a wonderful job of coach-speaking there, talking a lot and saying nothing really. Oh, he needs to work on his fundamentals? You don't say, Chuckie.

Some really solid "THIS GUY"'s in there as well.

[GibbsFactor]

Mechanics refer to throwing motion. Footwork is something completely different.

Says who? If so, why did his college coach (who has had success with every QB he has ever coached prior to Locker) have such a hard time fixing it?

Could it be that correcting a formed athletic motion that he has used his whole life is more difficult than snapping ones fingers?

Footwork is most certainly a quarterback mechanic. It's everything from center exchange, to drop backs, to reading coverages to throwing motions. Stance is just as important as your elbow and shoulder position.

He was still playing baseball until last year right? Perhaps Steve was more concerned with installing his offense than to work on his footwork. Perhaps he was more interested in getting his throwing motion down. Footwork is said to be the easiest to fix because it takes repetition and can be changed with little ill effect unlike throwing motion.

[RedskinsTime]

Again, his senior bowl was disappointing in that he was at the time considered a top 10 pick. He's not any more but to say his week was a complete joke is, again, unfair and inaccurate. Lande shows his incompetence by saying that Jake has good mechanics and still has poor accuracy. Most other draftniks say his footwork (mechanics) are the reason for his inaccuracy. He's accurate in open space, so he can be accurate. Footwork is the easiest trait to fix. Plus, comparing the South QBs to the North is a little unfair as well given that the south clearly had the better team.

I guess that's a matter of opinion then. I would regard misreading a Cover 3 at this point in his career a joke.

However, my original intent was to point out that his inaccuracy issues at Washington were not simply because of dropped passes by receivers, as BLC suggested.

Not worthy of a top ten pick. Trade down and pick him up later? Maybe, but not at ten. Too many holes to fill.

[tdigle]

All I'm gathering from this debate is that Locker's detractors think he would be a risky pick at 10 while his supporters, arguing on a totally different page, think it's unfair to say that drafting him would be a huge mistake. I've been persuaded by Locker's detractors that he's not worth the number 10 pick. But, would he be worth the a late first-round pick? Or do you forgo him as an option and look at the other QBs projected to go late in the first-round (i.e., Dalton and Ponder)?

[Redskins4ever]

The Redskins surely need to get additional picks. But moving back four spaces and gaining a second round pick in exchange for our 10th overall seems desperate of the Rams.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Why do the Skins have to roll the dice this year on a very iffy QB class when next year's class promises to be much better? This Skins team has MANY holes, a couple of which can be filled in rounds 1 and 2 with more certain talents. DE is loaded in this year's draft. That's a Skins need. WR is a need. One of the 2 elite ones may be available.

As for Locker, I could care less about his scripted pro days and practices. In actual games, he's been terrible. That's really all that matters to me. In fact, his youtube clips are of him running more than half the time. Is that gonna be our franchise QB for the next decade?

I will say it til I'm blue in the face. Drafting him would be up there with the Shuler pick....AKA A colossal mistake.

this team has been terrified to draft a QB high since shuler and its such a joke. you gotta roll the dice on a QB in the 1st round if you want real success. we failed with ramsey and campbell, and shuler was terrible. this is 3 first round QBs in almost 20 years, and 2 of them were at the very tail end of the 1st round. were at 10, if shanny likes locker we pull the trigger and work him until he succeeds or fails: and then we do it again.

drafting the lines and taking a flyer on a 2nd or 3rd round QB and hoping they pan out is just a bad idea. have you looked at how the last 5 years 2nd and beyond QBs have fared?? matt cassel is about the only one worth any real value, and hes still not a blue chipper. kyle orton is next and hes a journeyman at best.

success past the 1st round on a REAL QB is close to nil.

[Truant]

Why do the Skins have to roll the dice this year on a very iffy QB class when next year's class promises to be much better? This Skins team has MANY holes, a couple of which can be filled in rounds 1 and 2 with more certain talents. DE is loaded in this year's draft. That's a Skins need. WR is a need. One of the 2 elite ones may be available.

As for Locker, I could care less about his scripted pro days and practices. In actual games, he's been terrible. That's really all that matters to me. In fact, his youtube clips are of him running more than half the time. Is that gonna be our franchise QB for the next decade?

I will say it til I'm blue in the face. Drafting him would be up there with the Shuler pick....AKA A colossal mistake.

I agree with most of this. How many people here have watched him play? What about even the cut ups on YouTube? You can do that here:

These aren't highlights, they show his plays from respective games.

The clamoring for a franchise QB, I get that part. Who wouldn't want to have that position settled? But it feels like some people are dead set on trying to figure out that problem this year. I believe that this is a down year for quarterbacks. Could someone be successful? Sure. It might even be Locker. But, by looking at game tape, he is a huge gamble and, in my opinion, an unnecessary one.

Even many Locker fans concede that he has plenty of work to do and he might not be able to help a team for two to three years. If we use our picks this year to build a better team and draft a QB with less of a learning curve next year we'll be in a better position overall.

[The Tris]

Footwork is most certainly a quarterback mechanic. It's everything from center exchange, to drop backs, to reading coverages to throwing motions. Stance is just as important as your elbow and shoulder position.

When scouts talk about mechanics, as Lande has, they are referring to the throwing motion.

You appear to be confused by the terminology.

Perhaps Steve was more concerned with installing his offense than to work on his footwork. Perhaps he was more interested in getting his throwing motion down.

Locker's throwing motion has been consistently good throughout his career.

Footwork is said to be the easiest to fix because it takes repetition and can be changed with little ill effect unlike throwing motion.

So footwork is easy to fix because all it take is reps, but too difficult to work on while "installing an offense" (which you do with practice reps, no?)

Can't be both easy to fix and too difficult to fix at the same time Gibbs.

[RedBeast]

I think if we dont take him at then 10 the Vikings will. Roll the dice...Take Jake at 10. We are going to suck again this year so I fully expect us to be in the top 8-12 next year as well. I have gotten used to our "suckness." Its going to take at least 2-3 years to turn this "Black Pearl" around.

Another question? If we are one of the teams with the highest team revenues why dont we have THE BEST scouting department in the league? This should be an easy slam dunk for a team with an extremely strong scouting department. Seems like the suckness has crept into all corners and aspects of our organization.

Our Priorities should be:

1. Fix Management.

2. Fix Coaching.

3. Fix Scouting.

4. Fix Players.

Time to get out the bleach and mops. Spring cleaning from head to toe. God I hope this is happening.

[The Tris]

this team has been terrified to draft a QB high since shuler and its such a joke. you gotta roll the dice on a QB in the 1st round if you want real success. we failed with ramsey and campbell, and shuler was terrible. this is 3 first round QBs in almost 20 years, and 2 of them were at the very tail end of the 1st round. were at 10, if shanny likes locker we pull the trigger and work him until he succeeds or fails: and then we do it again.

Since 1991, only 3 NFL teams have drafted 3 1st round QBs - Us, Denver, and Oakland (coincidentally the three teams Mike Shanahan has coached, though he had nothing to do with Oakland and Washington's QB picks).

I'm not so sure that our QB issue is for lack of trying (as you claim), but for lack of execution.

We have taken more shots at solving the QB issue than most other teams in the NFL, be that through the draft, through FA, and through trades. We have just failed in the execution.

Overdrafting a QB because two late first QBs failed is not a intelligent response. Ramsey and Campbell did not fail because we pick them in the 2nd half of round one, they failed because they either weren't good enough, weren't surrounded by enough talent, or another on field reason. Draft position had nothing to do with it.

We need to draft the best QB to fit Kyle Shanahan's offense, which may or may not be someone taken with the 10th pick.

[RedBeast]

I think if we dont take him at then 10 the Vikings will. Roll the dice...Take Jake at 10. We are going to suck again this year so I fully expect us to be in the top 8-12 next year as well. I have gotten used to our "suckness." Its going to take at least 2-3 years to turn this "Black Pearl" around.

Another question? If we are one of the teams with the highest team revenues why dont we have THE BEST scouting department in the league? This should be an easy slam dunk for a team with an extremely strong scouting department. Seems like the suckness has crept into all corners and aspects of our organization.

Our Priorities should be:

1. Fix Management.

2. Fix Coaching.

3. Fix Scouting.

4. Fix Players.

Time to get out the bleach and mops. Spring cleaning from head to toe. God I hope this is happening.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Since 1991, only 3 NFL teams have drafted 3 1st round QBs - Us, Denver, and Oakland (coincidentally or not, the three teams Mike Shanahan has coached).

I'm not so sure that our QB issue is for lack of trying (as you claim), but for lack of execution.

Overdrafting a QB because two late first QBs failed is not a intelligent response. Ramsey and Campbell did not fail because we pick them in the 2nd half of round one, they failed because they either weren't good enough, weren't surrounded by enough talent, or another on field reason. Draft position had nothing to do with it.

We need to draft the best QB to fit Kyle Shanahan's offense, which may or may not be someone taken with the 10th pick.

good info, didnt know that about the 3 teams (and definitely odd about shanny). my point is we cant be scared to pull the trigger on a QB because of past mistakes. i use the chargers as an example all the time. they failed miserably on ryan leaf, one of the worst picks in the history of football. and a few years later they draft brees and rivers, two perennial pro bowlers.

my point is we cant be scared about taking a QB because of the fail rate. every player can bust, every player can hit. id rather hit on a QB than any other position in the draft.

this is all moot if we dont like locker, i personally will be happy with any pick we make outside of a CB/S/TE. i doubt ill be disappointed on thursday night.

[scruffylookin]

Amen RedBeast, both to taking the QB at 10 and especially the lacking Scouting Department. Not once since the cash cow formally known as Jack Kent Cooke Stadium has opened has our scouting staff even remotely been considered the best in the sport.

[TheismannQuote]

Another question? If we are one of the teams with the highest team revenues why dont we have THE BEST scouting department in the league? This should be an easy slam dunk for a team with an extremely strong scouting department. Seems like the suckness has crept into all corners and aspects of our organization.

Our Priorities should be:

1. Fix Management.

2. Fix Coaching.

3. Fix Scouting.

4. Fix Players.

Time to get out the bleach and mops. Spring cleaning from head to toe. God I hope this is happening.

I like your systematic approach but I think it's hard to lay the gauntlet entirely on the scouting staff. They have to unearth players to fit needs and systems. Tough job if there is zero stability in your program, you have a general manager/vp/owner(allegedly) that have serious weight in determining who gets drafted. Oh, and throw in the fact that you're constantly selling your future in trading draft picks for aged vets.... You're changing offensive philosophy every other year, 3-4 defense.. etc. etc. etc.

Well - basically - you have the Washington Redskins. Tough to throw all the mud on the scouting department.

[War Paint]

Why do the Skins have to roll the dice this year on a very iffy QB class when next year's class promises to be much better?

Seems like I hear and read this every year. Next year will be the same story. "Outside of Luck, this QB class is mediocre. Wait until next year." Then next year comes around....."This year's QB class is mediocre, wait until next year." I remember when people were saying "This QB class is not that great, wait for next year when Locker comes out."