Politico: Claire McCaskill Failed to Pay Taxes on Aircraft

[Corcaigh]

She needs to hire a better tax accountant.

I wouldn't assume she's intentionally committing fraud without a smoking gun.

Hell, I got professional tax advice when I moved here and even with thousands of pages of tax codes (or probably because of it) one issue was ambiguous enough we had to get other advisors input on.

[AsburySkinsFan]

For someone who hates "FauxNews" so much, you sure seem up-to-date on their tactics. A member of one party screws up, and it becomes "Hey! Don't look at that! Look at the other guys who do it!!":ols:

Did I say "don't look at what McCaskill did"? Uhhh....nope sure didn't. Instead I called her stupid. So yeah you're right I'm deflecting because McCaskill is a moron who could avoid paying her taxes as well as other political crooks. :thumbsup:

[Bang]

Actually, it sounds like she, her lawyer or accountant likely made a mistake. .

Sorry DJ, no way I'm going to be convinced of that. People making that kind of money employing people who don't know the tax law?

No way anyone with that kind of wealth is doing their own taxes.. and no way they aren't employing a team of lawyers and accountants to help them manage their assets.

I do believe that it's a case of "the rich and priveleged believe the rules don't apply to them."

~Bang

[DjTj]

Sorry DJ, no way I'm going to be convinced of that. People making that kind of money employing people who don't know the tax law?

No way anyone with that kind of wealth is doing their own taxes.. and no way they aren't employing a team of lawyers and accountants to help them manage their assets.

Lawyers and accountants make mistakes. Lawyers and accountants were signing off on subprime mortgages for years before everything came crashing down. Actually, the more you pay lawyers and accountants, the more they are going to try to push the envelope on the rules, and the more likely they are going to be in a gray area that turns out to be wrong. H&R Block isn't going to help you incorporate a company in Delaware to avoid tax liability on your plane, but an expensive lawyer will. In this case, the expensive lawyer was wrong because incorporating in Delaware did not avoid the Missouri personal property tax.

I do believe that it's a case of "the rich and priveleged believe the rules don't apply to them."

I think this is more likely a case a lawyer or accountant believing that one state's rules applies when there is another state's rules that apply.

Do you honestly believe that McCaskill knew that Missouri had a personal property tax for private planes hangared in Missouri, but specifically instructed her accountants not to pay it? There's no way she would even bother researching that. The most likely explanation is the one given, which is that they thought they could avoid taxes by incorporating in Delaware, but they made a mistake, and Missouri's laws do actually cover the property.

[GhostofSparta]

Sorry DJ, no way I'm going to be convinced of that. People making that kind of money employing people who don't know the tax law?

No way anyone with that kind of wealth is doing their own taxes.. and no way they aren't employing a team of lawyers and accountants to help them manage their assets.

I do believe that it's a case of "the rich and priveleged believe the rules don't apply to them."

~Bang

Not just that, but as Larry pointed out, these people know they're under a microscope. It seems every year there's at least 1 story about somebody in congress owing a huge sum in backtaxes that they claim "they didn't know about." Geitner and Rangle being very recent examples. Hell, I'm shocked each member of congress doesn't employ 2 full-time tax professionals, 1 for federal and 1 for your state, and have those 2 check each other's work. I won't be one to attribute situations like this to malice, but I'm with you that it's mostly hubris, and at least partly laziness.

[TimmySmith]

Do you honestly believe that McCaskill knew that Missouri had a personal property tax for private planes hangared in Missouri, but specifically instructed her accountants not to pay it? There's no way she would even bother researching that. The most likely explanation is the one given, which is that they thought they could avoid taxes by incorporating in Delaware, but they made a mistake, and Missouri's laws do actually cover the property.

So living in Missouri and creating a shell corporation in Delaware to avoid taxes is not a clear case of the rules not applying to those who have greater resources?

[aREDSKIN]

Do you honestly believe that McCaskill knew that Missouri had a personal property tax for private planes hangared in Missouri, but specifically instructed her accountants not to pay it? There's no way she would even bother researching that. The most likely explanation is the one given, which is that they thought they could avoid taxes by incorporating in Delaware, but they made a mistake, and Missouri's laws do actually cover the property.

Apparently there is a history of Claire et al not abiding by the law when it comes to taxes and other things.

So, Missouri Senator Claire McCaskill ‘forgot’ to pay property taxes on her private jet. (There are at least three things wrong with that sentence.) But, her ‘oversight’ in ‘forgetting’ about a $300,000 tax bill is just the latest example of her pattern of tax problems and obfuscation. The document below details a multi-decade pattern of an apparent belief that laws are for ‘the other people’, not important elected officials like herself. (Oh, and did we mention that one of her husband’s properties was used repeatedly as a crack house?) Behold what has become of the stewards of our Republic.

http://biggovernment.com/publius/2011/03/22/claire-mccaskills-tax-problems-go-far-beyond-airclaire/

[Bang]

Lawyers and accountants make mistakes. Lawyers and accountants were signing off on subprime mortgages for years before everything came crashing down. Actually, the more you pay lawyers and accountants, the more they are going to try to push the envelope on the rules, and the more likely they are going to be in a gray area that turns out to be wrong. H&R Block isn't going to help you incorporate a company in Delaware to avoid tax liability on your plane, but an expensive lawyer will. In this case, the expensive lawyer was wrong because incorporating in Delaware did not avoid the Missouri personal property tax.

I think this is more likely a case a lawyer or accountant believing that one state's rules applies when there is another state's rules that apply.

Do you honestly believe that McCaskill knew that Missouri had a personal property tax for private planes hangared in Missouri, but specifically instructed her accountants not to pay it? There's no way she would even bother researching that. The most likely explanation is the one given, which is that they thought they could avoid taxes by incorporating in Delaware, but they made a mistake, and Missouri's laws do actually cover the property.

Well, anything is possible, but I figure it as highly unlikely. One other thing I've noticed about the rich people I know, is that they manage to stay rich. (Other than lottery winners.)

The people they employ know these things, even if they do not.

I'm nowhere near rich, and the cheap accountants I employ ask me about every penny, where everything came from, etc. I don't think any of them would see something as valuable as a jet and not at least be sure they didn't have to pay anything on it. Accountants by nature are anal that way.

At least in my experience.

~Bang

[twa]

A Senator doesn't know basic taxes applicable in her own state????

This is not some arcane tax or valuation dispute.

[Predicto]

This is going to bite McCaskill in the butt big time, regardless of whether it was an error or not. As it should.

She really should have consulted Pelosi on how to get unlimited free plane travel without actually owning a plane.

Curious what you mean by this. Ever since 9/11. the Speaker of the House got unlimited free plane travel. George Bush ordered it to happen, and Dennis Hastert had it before Pelosi.

I thought the whole "Pelosi pulled stunts with government airplane travel myth" had been debunked long ago.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/pelosi/jet.asp

[DjTj]

So living in Missouri and creating a shell corporation in Delaware to avoid taxes is not a clear case of the rules not applying to those who have greater resources?

I definitely agree with that. People should be criticizing her for creating the shell corporation in Delaware, not for the fact that creating the shell corporation didn't work, causing her to owe back taxes.

Well, anything is possible, but I figure it as highly unlikely. One other thing I've noticed about the rich people I know, is that they manage to stay rich. (Other than lottery winners.)

The people they employ know these things, even if they do not.

I'm nowhere near rich, and the cheap accountants I employ ask me about every penny, where everything came from, etc. I don't think any of them would see something as valuable as a jet and not at least be sure they didn't have to pay anything on it. Accountants by nature are anal that way.

At least in my experience.

Actually, I'm sure that her lawyers and accountants had a big meeting, and the accountants said, "What about this airplane?" But the lawyers said, "Don't worry about the airplane, we created a corporation in Delaware to avoid taxes on the airplane."

I guess all I am trying to say is that yes, I believe McCaskill instructed her lawyers to purchase an airplane in a way that would avoid taxes. And rich people take advantage of the tax laws to do things like that all the time. But no, I don't believe that she knew that her shell corporation failed to shield her from Missouri personal property tax, and that she just decided to ignore the problem and not pay the taxes. She thought she had successfully avoided the taxes, but her belief was mistaken.

A Senator doesn't know basic taxes applicable in her own state????

This is not some arcane tax or valuation dispute.

She knew about the tax. She tried to avoid it. And she failed. It's not ignorance; it's a mistake.

[Burgold]

Boy, this thread had a rough middle.

Asbury,

As one who criticizes the right for the practice of deflection when one of their own comes under criticism, I think you're at fault here. You may not have meant too, but we didn't need a they did it too. We knew that. It's irrelevent. She didn't do this to catch up to some invisible tally of corruption. She did it because she or most likely her lawyers and accountants screwed up. She deserves our attention for that. Republicans have nothing to do with this conversation and they had no impact on her decision to try to get away the plane stuff.

When a Republican does screw up I want accountability. When a Democrat does I want the same. McCaskill messed up. She deserves a slap. This probably has nothing to do with her ability to function as a Senator, but it does speak to her as a person. She failed. Whether that was a failure in hiring the right people, a failure in trust by not reviewing their work, or direct failure in trying to get away with something... I don't know, but it was a failure. And it was hers. We don't need to hear about the Repubs in this thread because they weren't involved.

Boo on McCaskill.

[mcsluggo]

Sorry DJ, no way I'm going to be convinced of that. People making that kind of money employing people who don't know the tax law?

No way anyone with that kind of wealth is doing their own taxes.. and no way they aren't employing a team of lawyers and accountants to help them manage their assets.

I do believe that it's a case of "the rich and priveleged believe the rules don't apply to them."

~Bang

I think its a case of BOTH. She specifically incorporated in Del to capitalize on the fre tax ride, and then didn't fully follow the requirements to ACTUALLY successfully evade the taxes. She thought she was above the laws aimed at the little people, but did a bad job implimenting it.

[Nerm]

On a bit of a side note, one of the things that tends to bug me the most is when people who argue for a lot of tax increases, and then take extravagant measures to avoid paying taxes. I don’t know McCaskill’s history regarding tax issues, so I’m not directing this at her.

I remember a story about the Clinton’s taking deductions for used underwear that they donated to charity. This story happened around the time they were arguing for large tax increases so people would “pay their fair share”. I’m no Clinton hater, but it frustrated me to see this story. Don’t scrape the bottom of the barrel to find every deduction if you think people need to accept tax increases. The Kerry boat docking scandal was similar. I’m not as offended if someone squeezes out every deduction they can if they argue that taxes are too high. Heck, I will tend to by extra cigarettes if I’m in a low tax state, but I don’t support higher taxes on them. Similarly, I’m ok with someone arguing for “business friendly” laws deciding to incorporate in business friendly states.

On the Republican side, I tend to get more bothered by hypocritical moral crusaders. Really Newt…having an affair during the impeachment proceedings you were leading? Others making a living on anti gay rhetoric, then getting caught with a same sex prostitute…

I don’t see how these people go out and say the things they do. I could never be a politician.