Texas immigration bill has big exception

[SkinsHokieFan]

Really, we are going to start asking the neighbors kids to show some employment eligibilty?

I live in Falls Church, its a pretty diverse community. When it snowed I had a group of non white kids (it was a mixed group) come up and ask to shovel my driveway.

The first question I asked wasn't "can I see your passport?"

That is just laughable

[AsburySkinsFan]

Convince me they are gonna enforce the laws and I'm game.....I ain't writing another blank check though.

Craft enforceable laws that are workable and reasonable that address the reality of the insurmountable task of getting rid of 10 million illegals, and the reality that much of our economy is dependent upon that workforce.

Gonna be a neat trick when the feds are actively fighting enforcement.

That's a nice myth considering that deportations are up under Obama than under Bush, but hey let's not allow reality to change what we know.

[Destino]

Grandma is so confrontational like that. Let me see your papers gives her flashbacks.

All of this for a 25minute grass cutting?

Could we not pretend it bothers people just to score political points.

There is enough to go after the Republicans on: Homeless vets, budget, unions.

This is petty.

If you think it's petty fine. I think it puts a population at risk at further risk and this nonsense about "25 minutes of grass cutting" is the least of my concerns. Notice the law says maids and in house labor.

But yeah... lets continue to pretend this is about a quick lawn mowing.

[SkinsHokieFan]

If you think it's petty fine. I think it puts a population at risk at further risk and this nonsense about "25 minutes of grass cutting" is the least of my concerns. Notice the law says maids and in house labor.

But yeah... lets continue to pretend this is about a quick lawn mowing.

Just to be certain, I am going to ask my cleaning ladies next time to show documents.

For an hour they get 50 dollars from me and do a fantastic job. I reccomend them to anyone.

I am not about to ask them for their paper work next time they stop on by.

Now people I hire and subcontract for my own company, yea I get appropriate paper work for. But shoveling the driveway or cleaning the house

[Corcaigh]

So I'm expected to believe illegal immigration is a HUGE PROBLEM but we're concerned with "impractical". Really?

I hear war is impractical too. Guess we should never have another one.

I thought you were interested in an adult conversation.

Should every homeowner who wants to hire someone know what an I-9 is and the valid documentation?

[Destino]

Really, we are going to start asking the neighbors kids to show some employment eligibilty?

I live in Falls Church, its a pretty diverse community. When it snowed I had a group of non white kids (it was a mixed group) come up and ask to shovel my driveway.

The first question I asked wasn't "can I see your passport?"

That is just laughable

Pretending that this is about kids shoveling your driveway is laughable.

[GhostofSparta]

So ask everyone. What is the problem here? Ask "are you legally eligible to work in the US and can you prove it".

As a Ginger, I'm pretty much as white as you can get this side of "albino," and every job I've ever applied for has had that question on the application. Can you legally work in the US, and can you prove it? I've always had to bring 2 forms of ID (usually DL and SS card) to any application/interview. I'm with you, I don't understand this part of the issue either.

[Thiebear]

If you think it's petty fine. I think it puts a population at risk at further risk and this nonsense about "25 minutes of grass cutting" is the least of my concerns. Notice the law says maids and in house labor.

But yeah... lets continue to pretend this is about a quick lawn mowing.

Ash Maids take about 2 hours to clean my lil crack house once a month.

As a citizen i don't have to vet them: Ash Maids is responsible.

As a citizen i don't have to vet the lawn guy: Lawncare Experts is responsible

the bill has it correct.

And the ONLY WAY to fix this is to up legal immigration 4million this year and put illegals at the back of the line.

A line they can reach the front in 2-3 years if not a felon.

Seems simple to me for Congress and the WH to pass this? President Obama has been doing a better job on the border than Bush.

It could have a chance if addressed with border security showing updated and a process to become a citizen.

Though we probably equal every other country combined in illegal immigration: the other countries Expel forcefully.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration (i know the source is iffy, but the info matches want i want to hear ).

We are unique in the World and it takes its toll on everything.

I would say: If we made every illegal a citizen today: the colors outside (sky, trees, water) would be brighter and the economy would be shinier. (the shadow economy would be felons.. And at that point you could expel).

[SkinsHokieFan]

Pretending that this is about kids shoveling your driveway is laughable.

It absolutley is.

Most people hire work around the home for small stuff they don't have time for. This bill talks about, lawn work, maids, etc.

No home owner is asking that nice fellow trying to make a buck during the blizzard if they have appropriate paperwork. They just want anyone who is willing to break their back to shovel the 2 feet of snow in their driveway.

During snowpocalypse the streets of DC were filled with immigrant entreprenuers walking around offering to shovel for 50 dollars. I bet nobody asked for paperwork, I-9 or employment verification as all they wanted was a clean driveway, and all these guys wanted was 50 dollars.

And I see 0 problem with that

[Destino]

I thought you were interested in an adult conversation.

Should every homeowner who want to hire someone know what an I-9 is and the valid documentation?

I am interesting in an adult conversation and we're still talking about kids raking leaves or shoveling snow. Not surprised to be honest. As for your question, it depends on the scope of work. If we are serious about stopping illegal immigration however we have to be serious about stopping the motivation to come here which is finding work. Decriminalizing hiring illegals in your home tells the illegal population exactly what kinds of jobs to pursue and IMO puts them at greater risk.

What about that do you disagree with?

[AsburySkinsFan]

I thought you were interested in an adult conversation.

Should every homeowner who wants to hire someone know what an I-9 is and the valid documentation?

For the sake of consistency why not? If employing illegals is going to be illegal then why not? Oh it's not practical. Well, if we're talking about practicality then we need to look at why none of this legislation is practical for stopping illegal immigration.

[Destino]

It absolutley is.

Most people hire work around the home for small stuff they don't have time for. This bill talks about, lawn work, maids, etc.

No home owner is asking that nice fellow trying to make a buck during the blizzard if they have appropriate paperwork. They just want anyone who is willing to break their back to shovel the 2 feet of snow in their driveway.

During snowpocalypse the streets of DC were filled with immigrant entreprenuers walking around offering to shovel for 50 dollars. I bet nobody asked for paperwork, I-9 or employment verification as all they wanted was a clean driveway, and all these guys wanted was 50 dollars.

And I see 0 problem with that

Hiring labor in your home like a maid is not the same thing as hiring a bunch of teenagers to shovel your driveway one a blue moon. Most of the ones I see are regular employees with several "clients" a day. So are live nannys which can even be asked to reside in the home. So no it's no where near the same thing.

Again if we're serious about this issue why the resistance?

[Corcaigh]

I am interesting in an adult conversation and we're still talking about kids raking leaves or shoveling snow.

As you only see posts about yard work and kids , I'll try for the third time. ... my wife was not eligible to work here for several years, even though she was a homeowner in a nice neighborhood. She is very, very white.

If she offered to provide cleaning services for a neighbor, would you require the neighbor to correctly complete an I-9 and validate that the right mix of documents from the following list were presented? I think it's reasonable to ask a business to do this, but not a homeowner. Yes I think asking a homeowner to do this is impractical and so while punishing businesses would help, it would be harsh IMO to expect homeowners to meet the same standards.

[Destino]

As you only see posts about yard work and kids , I'll try for the third time. ... my wife was not eligible to work here for several years, even though she was a homeowner in a nice neighborhood. She is very, very white.

If she offered to provide cleaning services for a neighbor, would you require the neighbor to correctly complete an I-9 and validate that the right mix of documents from the following list were presented? I think it's reasonable to ask a business to do this, but not a homeowner. Yes I think asking a homeowner to do this is impractical and so while punishing businesses would help, it would be harsh IMO to expect homeowners to meet the same standards.

For regular employment like weekly maid service. Yes.

Again if you are serious about illegal immigration why the resistance here? Regular maid service 50 dollars a house provides tremendously gainful employment. 2 clients a day comes out to 500 bucks a week. That's 26000 a year that will go entirely tax free which is more than enough to live on and compared to the situation where these people are from is like hitting the lottery.

This you want to remain an option for them and claim to be serious about the illegal immigration problem? The excuse of it not being practical while making a big deal about illegal immigration is pathetic.

[Corcaigh]

For regular employment like weekly maid service. Yes.

OK. So you would be happy if the bill prosecuted also homeowners provided the services met what exact criteria? Frequency, value?

EDIT: and what percentage of the US population who might be in the market for someone to show up once a week for an hour or two could complete this paperwork correctly?

[Destino]

OK. So you would be happy if the bill prosecuted also homeowners provided the services met what exact criteria? Frequency, value?

Any regular employment. If it's a one time thing you'll never be able to stop it but if it's regular employment I see no excuses in this thread as even slightly convincing.

EDIT: and what percentage of the US population who might be in the market for someone to show up once a week for an hour or two could complete this paperwork correctly?

I don't care. Assuming most people aren't mentally challenged they can learn how to do it in very little time. Again laziness is not convincing me here.

Again regular employment in private homes provides significant income. If you want to stop illegal immigration you have to take these things off the table. Do you disagree? Yes or no.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

OK ... ignore my posts that referenced my wife. My wife was not eligible to work here for several years, even though she was a homeowner in a nice neighborhood. Should it be a legal requirement for a homeowner for hiring someone to do housework or yardwork to know all the different types of paper work which show employment eligibility?

Hope you don't mind me asking, but why was your wife not eligible to work for several years? That seems awfully long to me. there was a year there where my wife couldn't work but that was it.

[TimmySmith]

A BILL TO BE ENTITLED

AN ACT

relating to the creation of the offense of employing or contracting

with an unauthorized alien.

BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF TEXAS:

SECTION 1. The heading to Title 8, Penal Code, is amended to

read as follows:

TITLE 8. OFFENSES AGAINST PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION AND THE

ADMINISTRATION OF CERTAIN LAWS

SECTION 2. Title 8, Penal Code, is amended by adding Chapter

40 to read as follows:

CHAPTER 40. CERTAIN EMPLOYMENT OR CONTRACTS PROHIBITED UNDER

FEDERAL LAW

Sec. 40.01. DEFINITION. In this chapter, "unauthorized

alien" has the meaning assigned by 8 U.S.C. Section 1324a(h)(3).

Sec. 40.02. EMPLOYING OR CONTRACTING WITH UNAUTHORIZED

ALIEN. (a) A person commits an offense if the person

intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly:

(1) employs an unauthorized alien;

(2) contracts for the performance of labor or other

work with an unauthorized alien; or

(3) contracts or subcontracts for the performance of

labor or other work with another person the actor knows will employ

or contract with an unauthorized alien to perform labor or other

work under the contract or subcontract.

( An offense under this section is a state jail felony.

Sec. 40.03. EXCEPTIONS. It is an exception to the

application of Section 40.02 that the actor:

(1) employed or contracted with the unauthorized

alien, or entered into a contract or subcontract described by

Section 40.02(a)(3), for the purpose of obtaining labor or other

work to be performed exclusively or primarily at a single-family

residence in which the actor resides; or

(2) attempted to verify the unauthorized alien's

immigration status or work authorization in a manner that is more

likely than not to produce a correct and reliable result concerning

an individual's immigration status or work authorization and had no

knowledge of the unauthorized alien's actual immigration status or

work authorization.

SECTION 3. This Act takes effect September 1, 2011.

The law clearly states that a homeowner is under the same law as everyone else EXCEPT when they hire a contractor, they are NOT responsible for checking the status of his workers.

[Larry]

Precisely...because you are a individual...

Bzzzt. Wrong answer, Hans.

Would you like to try for double jeopardy, where the scores can really change?

I don't have to verify the status of my employees (or any of the other things that employers have to do) because I'm not hiring them. I'm hiring their company.

---------- Post added March-2nd-2011 at 12:44 PM ----------

I don't understand your logic. The profit motive for the business owner is far far greater to hire illegals in a factory because of the multiplicative factor, than to save a few bucks an hour with a handful of slightly cheaper home helpers.

Actually, I would assert that the correct way to deal with this disparity is to make each illegal hire a separate offense. The business owner who hires 30 illegals has committed 30 counts of (whatever we call it.)

Bigger profit motive, bigger penalty.

Companies which hire illegals for home cleaning and yardwork can be punished so the issue is that because hiring of freelance illegal immigrants isn't addressed by this bill it's a bad bill?

Good point.

---------- Post added March-2nd-2011 at 12:47 PM ----------

We already did amnesty and have guest worker program....we have not enforced immigration laws

Charade is right,as is half assed....now you want to explain why the laws and borders are not being enforced?

At least I see the right attempting to do so,unlike the Left which support sanctuary policies and fight enforcement of the laws we already have.

And if you spout that lie another dozen times it still won't be true.

News flash: Deportations are way up since Obama took over.

---------- Post added March-2nd-2011 at 12:55 PM ----------

Given that, how can a homeowner verify legal employment status? I was employed here for a number of years on a H-1 visa as an executive in a technology company. My family members did not have employment eligibility. During that time if any of my neighbors had hired my wife or kids for home help, baby sitting, yard work or other services the neighbor would have been in violation of the law. What punishment should the neighbors have faced as a consequence?

It's a valid argument.

OTOH, the solution doesn't necessarily have to be, to make it legal for Charlie Sheen to knowingly hire six Thai sex slaves as full time, live in, "maids".

How about exempting homeowners who hire an employee for, say, less than $100/year?

[The Sisko]

Like abortion, illegal immigration is one of those emotional, sensationalist election wedge issues that the GOP loves to exploit.....and values too much to ever solve. So for example here in Georgia where we've had a state government completely controlled by good, solid GOP/Tea Bagger types for many years now, Arizona style immigration laws that our new Governor loved before the election are somehow finding tough sledding after the election.

Can't imagine why such a thing would be the case? Well, you can blame the liberals again. Lobbyists from commie, hippie, liberal groups like the Georgia Agribusiness Council (GAC), Georgia Farm Bureau, and the Associated General Contractors of America among others have opposed it. In fact, the GAC president summed things up quite well in saying "When ... we talk about requirements for ... verification, I see a shrinking of Georgia's agricultural economy," In other words, wave :ciao: to Frank Purdue and his chickens, i.e. the largest segment of Georgia's agriculture business.

Hmmm, seems someone's caught between business campaign contributions and voters demanding we push the Mexicans out......'er voters demanding immigration reform. I for one can't wait to see the gymnastics they'll employ to get out of this one.

The cold, hard reality is that business needs the cheap labor, consumers don't want to pay higher prices, and the GOP never met a scapegoat it didn't like so don't expect the situation with illegals to change much anytime soon...no matter how much the Tea Baggers howl about it. But then who's thinking about reality when you can use it as an issue to rile up your base and distract them from other issues?

[Corcaigh]

Hope you don't mind me asking, but why was your wife not eligible to work for several years? That seems awfully long to me. there was a year there where my wife couldn't work but that was it.

Until I got a green card (or citizenship) she wasn't eligible. She could have tried to get a company to sponsor I think, but doing that while already present in the country I think is possibly illegal..

---------- Post added March-2nd-2011 at 01:21 PM ----------

Again regular employment in private homes provides significant income. If you want to stop illegal immigration you have to take these things off the table. Do you disagree? Yes or no.

I wouldn't have a problem with it, but I'm sure many would dislike the idea of I-9 being required for this kind of service in parts of the country where illegal immigration is not an important issue.

And I think you would have to do a better job of defining what is regular and significant. Does a bi-weekly lawn service count? After how many weeks?

---------- Post added March-2nd-2011 at 01:25 PM ----------

Any regular employment. If it's a one time thing you'll never be able to stop it but if it's regular employment I see no excuses in this thread as even slightly convincing.

Assuming most people aren't mentally challenged they can learn how to do it in very little time. Again laziness is not convincing me here.

On two separate occasions, immigration officials at Dulles Airport told me that my visa was not valid. This was a fancy embossed and colored document issued by the US Embassy in London and permanently affixed inside my passport. If trained CIS professionals whose fulltime job is to inspect such documentation get confused, do you think homeowners should be held legally responsible for failing to do a better job?

[twa]

And if you spout that lie another dozen times it still won't be true.

News flash: Deportations are way up since Obama took over.

---------- Post added March-2nd-2011 at 12:55 PM ----------

Were they up because of policies enacted under W or not?.....run the numbers

Oh wait didn't this yrs numbers actually go down?

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Until I got a green card (or citizenship) she wasn't eligible. She could have tried to get a company to sponsor I think, but doing that while already present in the country I think is possibly illegal..

Ah, didn't think about the sponsor angle. And I want to say a company can sponsorr you if you have a job lined up, but don't quote me on that.

The whole process is such a *****. We're working on getting her conditions removed now. We've done all of it so far without an attorney which is a miracle but I swear, my head is going to explode soon. The thing that's such a struggle for us, is that we're both poor students and they want financial documents that just don't exist. So we send what we got and dozens of pictures, half a dozen affadavits from family, friends and co-workers and bday/vday/xmas cards. And that's not repeating any evidence from the first filing. We nailed the conditional green card but now they want to give us ****? It just makes no sense.

I'm not sure most Americans comprehend how complicated and expensive (esp if you hire an attorney) the whole process is.

[Corcaigh]

I'm not sure most Americans comprehend how complicated and expensive (esp if you hire an attorney) the whole process is.

I think our process cost the best part of $20k. Someone else was paying for almost all of it..

[Larry]

Hey, we don't want poor immigrants.