A Closer Look at 2011 QB Prospects:Cam Newton

[addicted]

One thing is clear..

You either like Cam because he's an obvious talent and playmaker that rarely comes along..

Or

You hate Newton because your a hater..

In all seriousness if your argument against this kid contains anything other than football your not credible. And if your argument contains football but its stacked with typical talking points that make no sense(ie: spread offense QB, running QB, cant read defenses) then your also not credible. If you dont want to draft him cool just say it, but dont bash the kid simply to make your point. But it's undeniable.. He's a great football player with star potential.

Great so now that we've gone from the people trying to say that unless you love Cam Newton that your a racist now it's if you don't like Newton your a hater? You guys sure are buying into the hype of this player who in the last month of this past college season was ranked 4th best QB in the draft by everyone....every year there is someone who the media loves that they skyrocket up the draft board like this that hardly ever pans out....This is all hype around this guy like they hyped up Jarmarcus Russell. Who ever drafts this kid is going to either be very lucky or regretting it. Even if the guy turns out to be this "undeniably great star player" does anyone think that he's got it in him to stick with the same ball club for very long? How many colleges did he go to again? How exactly did his Team Newton attempt to sell him to the highest bidder in college again? I see who ever drafts this guy to be losing him in 4 years, which I guess if your wanting him you'll get your chance soon enough because he doesn't demonstrate loyalty you want to see. He demonstrates that he's a Me First Arrogant player who will always be about himself.

The only thing I'm hating on is the stupidity that is rampant in this thread about this guy. I've said a few times that he could be the next top 5 QB in the league and asked all of you supporters if you saw that in him. Will you rank him with the Brady's, Vicks, Mannings, Rothesbergers, Rogers in the next 3 years? I don't see it personally and not surprising to me to not see any of you out there seeing this either and saying he will be. If your not saying that you see him being that good you can't draft him at 10 because we have so many holes on this team to fill and those top 5 positional players are out there. Yet I'm the "hater"? That's the best you can come up with eh? Weak man very weak

[MartinC]

I don't think anyone supporting Newton denies that their are concerns. However, some people arguing against Newton are really blowing one these concerns out of proportion. Newton's character.

When I hear about Newton's red flags from people in the media, I hear questions about how will Newton do in the interview, can he answer questions about coverages? protection schemes? hot reads?

This is where people raise a flag because he obviously wasn't asked to do a lot of this at Auburn.

However in this thread specifically, the main issue seems to be Cam's character, and it's gotten to the point of absurdity.

A list of people of the top of my head he's been compared in this thread to by those relentlessly bashing him:

Albert Haynesworth

Adolf Hitler

Jamarcuss Russell

Vince Young

Tim Tebow (not about the media day comparison)

So I hope you can see why those of us, who like how the kid plays on the field, feel the need to somewhat defend his character.

I think its fair to say some people on both sides of this debate have gone a bit over the top in terms of some of the statements and analogies they have used. You make a good point about the focus on personality and off field concerns on this thread though. The intent of the thread was to provide some film and analysis of his play and invite comment and disussion around that looking at specific plays or examples which help to back up that discussion.

I think it is legitimate to raise concerns around the off field stuff and inexperience in the context of if/where you might draft him and it was inevitable they would be raised in this thread. But this main purpose of this thread was trying to focus on the physical on the field performance part of the evaluation.

[addicted]

Do you seriously not think that personality problems off the field can lead to issues on the field for prospects?

And thus it is valid to be concerned with prospects who's background is less than clean?

It would seem that ignoring part of who a prospect is much less credible...

Well said

What I've been saying all along is his price tag is way too high for me to want him looking at the complete picture. If we were a QB away from winning it which we aren't then I could see the risk in drafting him but the reality is that with the 10th pick the guys you could be taking are:

Tyson Alualu

Michael Crabtree

Jerod Mayo

Mike Williams

Dunta Robinson

Terrell Suggs

Levi Jones

Chris McAlister

Duane Starks

Jerome Bettis

Rod Woodson

Marcus Allen

The 10th pick in the draft can be used to get some fine talent that is safer then taking a boom or bust pick like this

[Mahons21]

Of the players that have been drafted this decade at the 10th position; 1 has made the top 5 at their position, Dunta Robinson, and he's not even with the team that drafted him anymore. Almost 40% of the guys are already out of the league, the other players are Tyson Alualu, Terrell Suggs, Crabtree, Jerod Mayo, and Amobe Okoye.

The chances any player in the draft make it to top 5 at their position is extremely slim. I'll take that bet against any player this draft, that in 3 years from now, they won't be top 5 at their position, unless said player is a RB.

---------- Post added February-25th-2011 at 11:47 AM ----------

I think it is legitimate to raise concerns around the off field stuff and inexperience in the context of if/where you might draft him and it was inevitable they would be raised in this thread. But this main purpose of this thread was trying to focus on the physical on the field performance part of the evaluation.

And that's why I think so many of us have enjoyed the series of threads you and DG have put out.

[addicted]

With the state of the Redskins being what it is -- we do need a QB to start developing. But with the state of the Redskins being what it is -- they probably need to go the safe route -- a blue-chip "can't miss" prospect with as few questions as possible -- and perhaps for one of the less high profile positions such as the defensive front seven.

Exactly what I've been saying here all along. Completely agree and think you said this better then I did. I just think his price tags too high for us to risk taking him. At the same time I think taking Locker in the second would be money better spent for us. Both guys are project players, both guys have good and bad about them, one guys going to cost a grip more though and we can't afford to set ourselves back with a bust pick at #10. We do need to groom a QB, so if we skip on Locker we need to use a pick on a QB project. If I thought Newton was a lock for superstardom then I'd support taking him there but I think good money on him would be middle to later first round selection like Dez Bryant was last year. I find it puzzling that in every draft players with questionable history's see there draft position decrease but this guys is soaring up. I think that's troubling as can be. Why the hype to make him a top 10 pick now and such a movement to ignore the question marks? Somethings afoot and its sad really that these boom or bust players have such a negative impact on the rest of the college draft classes. I hope he does great in the league where ever he goes. I just don't think he's for us.

[IrepDC]

Addicted I concede you have valid points. I think frustration just caused you to go overboard with your criticism of Newton supporters yesterday, and that's understandable considering where the thread was heading. Now that you've established your worries about Newton off the field though, I am very curious to hear your analysis of the film provided by the OP. I'm not sure if you care for Gabbert, Locker, or any of the other QBs in the draft, but how would you compare Newton's play to theirs? I.e. accuracy, pocket presence, does he seem like he's always looking to run, does he show good mechanics, does he go through his progressions? As someone who understandably has doubts about Newton off the field, I think it would be interesting hearing your take of him on the field. If any of the other people who don't like him would like to analyze the actual film, I'd enjoy to hear your opinions.

[addicted]

However in this thread specifically, the main issue seems to be Cam's character, and it's gotten to the point of absurdity.

A list of people of the top of my head he's been compared in this thread to by those relentlessly bashing him:

Albert Haynesworth

Adolf Hitler

Jamarcuss Russell

Vince Young

Tim Tebow (not about the media day comparison)

So I hope you can see why those of us, who like how the kid plays on the field, feel the need to somewhat defend his character.

I find that really funny because my quote about Hitler was in response to this:

I assume you meant to say can't, and I agree. My point is not to ignore activity off the field, it's that you and I personally don't know enough about Cam the person to discuss it.

Do you need to know Hitler personally to discuss his evilness? I don't. Why would you take things off the table to discuss? I don't get the whole "if you don't know him personally then you don't talk about someone" idea. If we did that most of us would never speak about a single NFL player anywhere.

Where did I compare Hitler to Newton or say that Newton was Hitler? You completely missed the boat here pal. Replace Lincon with Hitler and you get this:

Do you need to know Lincon personally to discuss his greatness? I don't. Why would you take things off the table to discuss? I don't get the whole "if you don't know him personally then you don't talk about someone" idea. If we did that most of us would never speak about a single NFL player anywhere.

the point was that you were saying that you can't discuss him because you don't know him, I was pointing out that we do that all the time with everyone everywhere and called that excuse a complete cop out and bullspit. I never implied that Newton was Hitler in any way. Yet you can continue to think I did if you want. the post is #457 in this thread

---------- Post added February-25th-2011 at 11:12 AM ----------

Addicted I concede you have valid points. I think frustration just caused you to go overboard with your criticism of Newton supporters yesterday, and that's understandable considering where the thread was heading. Now that you've established your worries about Newton off the field though, I am very curious to hear your analysis of the film provided by the OP. I'm not sure if you care for Gabbert, Locker, or any of the other QBs in the draft, but how would you compare Newton's play to theirs? I.e. accuracy, pocket presence, does he seem like he's always looking to run, does he show good mechanics, does he go through his progressions? As someone who understandably has doubts about Newton off the field, I think it would be interesting hearing your take of him on the field. If any of the other people who don't like him would like to analyze the actual film, I'd enjoy to hear your opinions.

Lets get this out of the way first....About the running aspect he is not a running QB. I think that's not at all true with him and think he's gotten a bum rap there. Yes the run to pass ratio was/is high last season but I don't consider that to be a problem with him. He shows that his ability on the field to be very good. He can be special. He can be a headache too.

"I just hope he realizes how hard he needs to work.”

Gil Brant quote

I think that says a lot about him because for him to do well he's going to have to work even harder then other guys coming into this game.

I see him with a good enough arm, not a cannon arm but good enough for the NFL. He has the physical tools to be great, I think that in college in his offense it fit him very well. However spread offenses, shotgun offenses don't work in this league. He's coming from a program that has limited success in the NFL and that worries me. I also worry about his ability to read a complex defense...At Auburn he was a one read then react QB but that's not how it works in the NFL. I question his intelligence to do that since he had to cheat to get through college. I prefer smarter QB's who rely less on physical abilities but instead read coverages and know where the open guy is and have good timing and touch with passes. I don't think he's got the best accuracy either. He's shown that he can be inaccurate with his passes when he drops back. His footwork isn't the best either and needs tweaking.

I see a project QB who could be very very good or could fizzle out and be an Akili Smith. I don't think he is a can't miss QB and because I don't see him as can't miss I think the asking price for us to get him is too high. I would only take a can't miss QB with the #10 pick if I believed he was ready to play game one. I don't see that here.

[RocketCitySkins]

How exactly did his Team Newton attempt to sell him to the highest bidder in college again? I

Everything you put on here is an exaggeration. You stretch the truth to the point of lying. Back it up that Cecil Newton discussed money with anyone other than Kenny Rogers who played for MSU. Lane Kiffin, Tennessee and Bob Stoops, Oklahoma are the other two major college coaches who recruited Cam and both have publically said they were not asked for money. Also, after a 10 month investigation the NCAA cleared Auburn of any involvement with money. So that's 3 out of 4 schools who recruited Newton on record that Cecil didn't ask for money.

And I'm still waiting for an answer to the other school besides Florida where you say Cam was in academic trouble.

[addicted]

Everything you put on here is an exaggeration. You stretch the truth until to the point of lying. Back it up that Cecil Newton discussed money with anyone other than Kenny Rogers who played for MSU. Lane Kiffin, Tennessee and Bob Stoops, Oklahoma are the other two major college coaches who recruited Cam and both have publically said they were not asked for money. Also, after a 10 month investigation the NCAA cleared Auburn of any involvement with money. So that's 3 out of 4 schools who recruited Newton on record that Cecil didn't ask for money.

And I'm still waiting for an answer to the other school besides Florida where you say Cam was in academic trouble.

Story about pay for play:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5786315

The only thing dishonest here is you saying I'm lying about this. You can give a crap he didn't sell himself to Auburn and only offered to sell himself to Mississippi State but the fact is that this happened and it's illegal and wrong to do that. He got away with it because he said his father acted alone, which I don't believe. You can if you want. To me this is a huge red flag...I mean how are you going to sell out to the highest bidder in college and then not expect him to do that in the NFL where everyone does that? Gimmie a ****ing break. If I selected Cam Newton I would expect to hold his rights for a short (4 year time) then have to franchise him to get him to stay longer. Not a great thing to do for your ballclub eh? I guess you don't think about stuff like that but how crushing would it be for the Redskins to finally find a Franchise QB and then when we are on the verge of a championship he leaves via Free Agency? That would suck and something I expect to see happen in 5 years to the team who drafts him

[number twenty-eight]

The inexperience isn't terribly persuasive to me as a negative factor, compared to the other highly regarded QBs this year. He was stuck behind Tebow, regarded as one of the great college players ever, and had to transfer for an opportunity to start. When he's had opportunities to get on the field he has excelled, which cannot be said for Gabbert or Locker.

I suppose how much you value quality and quantity is the difference for how much weight you give that characteristic.

Edit: Versus prospects at other positions, I completely understand the argument.

[RocketCitySkins]

Story about pay for play:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5786315

The only thing dishonest here is you saying I'm lying about this. You can give a crap he didn't sell himself to Auburn and only offered to sell himself to Mississippi State but the fact is that this happened and it's illegal and wrong to do that. He got away with it because he said his father acted alone, which I don't believe. You can if you want. To me this is a huge red flag...I mean how are you going to sell out to the highest bidder in college and then not expect him to do that in the NFL where everyone does that? Gimmie a ****ing break

Where in that article does it say that Cecil tried to shop Cam to the highest bidder. The article reports Cecil's talks with one university and one only, Mississippi State. And at the end of the article even mentions Stoops of Oklahoma saying no one talked to him about money. There was no other school bidding for Cam. If you can't see the difference in what this article is saying and what you posted, then you're beyond help.

[addicted]

Where in that article does it say that Cecil tried to shop Cam to the highest bidder. The article reports Cecil's talks with one university and one only, Mississippi State. And at the end of the article even mentions Stoops of Oklahoma saying no one talked to him about money. There was no other school bidding for Cam. If you can't see the difference in what this article is saying and what you posted, then you're beyond help.

Who the hell cares if it was one University or 5? The fact is that these conversations happened and your ignoring the bigger picture here. Don't tell me your too stupid to see that selling yourself in the NFL is a normal every year thing so how can you not think that will continue on the next level.

Basically what your saying is you don't see a big deal about this. I do. I can't help that your lust for Newton is so strong that you don't think that should hurt him but in almost every other draft choice through the years things like this would kill a recruits chances.

[RocketCitySkins]

Who the hell cares if it was one University or 5? The fact is that these conversations happened and your ignoring the bigger picture here. Don't tell me your too stupid to see that selling yourself in the NFL is a normal every year thing so how can you not think that will continue on the next level.

Basically what your saying is you don't see a big deal about this. I do. I can't help that your lust for Newton is so strong that you don't think that should hurt him but in almost every other draft choice through the years things like this would kill a recruits chances.

This has nothing to do with a lust for Newton. It has to do with you wanting to make him look so bad that you stretch the truth and then have nothing to back it up so you attack me. You said he was in trouble at 2 schools. He was in trouble at only one school, Florida. And that's still debatable. You said he was shopped to the highest bidder which would have to mean several schools were approached for money yet there is only one school approached about money and the other coaches are on record saying they weren't never contacted about money. You are so concerned about Newton's character. But you think it's okay to exaggerate the truth to make him look as bad as you want him to look without anything to back it up. You post substantiated facts and you won't see anything more from me. We've been over and over the events from 3 years ago. You post lies and half-truths to hate on his character and I'll not only call you on it , I'll call you the hypocrite that you are.

[Going Commando]

Well the results are in. It's definitive. Blaine Gabbert's superior hand size proves he's the better QB prospect. We can go ahead and close this discussion down now.

[addicted]

This has nothing to do with a lust for Newton. It has to do with you wanting to make him look so bad that you stretch the truth and then have nothing to back it up so you attack me.

Whoa there chief who posted this:

Everything you put on here is an exaggeration. You stretch the truth to the point of lying.

Your claiming I am lying and attacking you yet thats exactly what your doing to me. I backed up my statement with proof. This isn't "news" to anyone except of course to those who want to ignore it.

[RocketCitySkins]

Whoa there chief who posted this:

Your claiming I am lying and attacking you yet thats exactly what your doing to me. I backed up my statement with proof. This isn't "news" to anyone except of course to those who want to ignore it.

I feel like I'm talking to a 6 year old. You posted that Cam was shopped to the highest bidder. How can there be a highest bidder when there was only one school bidding. DUH! Actually it wasn't the school. It was a couple of boosters.

And your own link backs me up, not you. Your own link talks about ONE university which is Mississippi State and NO ONE ELSE.

If it doesn't make a difference whether it was 1 school or 5 schools then why do you feel the need to make it look like it was 5 schools when it was only 1. ?

[GibbsFactor]

I feel like I'm talking to a 6 year old. You posted that Cam was shopped to the highest bidder. How can there be a highest bidder when there was only one school bidding. DUH! Actually it wasn't the school. It was a couple of boosters.

And your own link backs me up, not you. Your own link talks about ONE university which is Mississippi State and NO ONE ELSE.

The Mississippi State thing is easy. His father had a relationship there. Said, pay up, feeling comfortable in the relationship. His father is retarded. Let's not draft him!!! C'mon guys. Just say you don't want him, some of these excuses are painful to my eyes.

[addicted]

I feel like I'm talking to a 6 year old.

A minute ago yuour crying about me insulting you. Now your trolling with these comments and insults. I also feel like your a child talking to a man. The communication breakdown here is your level of honesty and integrity. Grow up.

You posted that Cam was shopped to the highest bidder. How can there be a highest bidder when there was only one school bidding. DUH! Actually it wasn't the school. It was a couple of boosters.

Since when was his Dad just a booster?

And your own link backs me up, not you. Your own link talks about ONE university which is Mississippi State and NO ONE ELSE.

So ****ing what? If it were another crime does it matter if it was done once or three or five times? The point here your too dense to get is that he committed a rules violation. If one school admitted he tried to commit that crime then that should be enough. If your too stupid to ignore that he did this and you only care that he only did it once then that's your prerogative. To me your arguing a point that means nothing. If you don't care that he did that then your viewpoint on things differs from mine. And that still doesn't answer why you would want that representing the team? Or how you can believe his going to the "highest bidder" won't happen in the NFL where every player does this on a normal every year cycle. What this comes down to is that to you it's not a deal breaker, to me its a huge red flag.

---------- Post added February-25th-2011 at 12:39 PM ----------

The Mississippi State thing is easy. His father had a relationship there. Said, pay up, feeling comfortable in the relationship. His father is retarded. Let's not draft him!!! C'mon guys. Just say you don't want him, some of these excuses are painful to my eyes.

That is if you believe Cam was a victim of his greedy father here which I simply can't fathom is the truth. If your Dad sabotaged you would you let him hang around and represent you any more like Cam is? The answer of course is No. If someone sabotaged you without your knowledge you wouldn't keep that man in the picture like Cam is. To believe otherwise is just naive and borderline silly to me

[RocketCitySkins]

Quote Originally Posted by RocketCitySkins View Post

You posted that Cam was shopped to the highest bidder. How can there be a highest bidder when there was only one school bidding. DUH! Actually it wasn't the school. It was a couple of boosters.

Since when was his Dad just a booster?

Your comprehension skills are awful. I was referring to who at MSU supposedly did the bidding. I wasn't referring to who did the asking.

[darrelgreenie]

"I just hope he realizes how hard he needs to work.”

Gil Brant quote

I think that says a lot about him because for him to do well he's going to have to work even harder then other guys coming into this game.

I like how you tried to take Gil Brandt's quote out of context.

And no matter how you try to spin it when Gil Brandt gives his opinion everyone listens.

“It would shock me . . . if he’s not the first player picked,” “If I was drafting and I had Carolina’s [No. 1] pick, I’d feel really good about who I was getting as far as ability. I just hope he realizes how hard he needs to work.You can have all the ability in the world but if you don't work like Drew Brees, Peyton Manning or Aaron Rodgers, you're only going to be semi-successful”

Brandt, former Dallas Cowboys' director of player personnel, is well aware of Newton's history and noted that Newton has created no issues for himself since leaving Florida. He's also aware that Newton is the most talented player in the 2011 draft. And in the NFL, talent rules.

Read more: http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/02/21/2865475/auburns-newton-should-be-first.html#ixzz1F06Ejy96

[skinzWILL]

If Cams father was talking to boosters at MSU don't you think he was talking to boosters at other schools too? Sure the coaches can come out and say "we never talked to him about money" bc. THEY didn't, the boosters did. They also can maintain plausible deniability this way, and more than likely avoid NCAA sanctions. I have experience with the seedy underside of college athletics, boosters etc. I can tell you this and you can take this to the bank. EVERY SINGLE major college has players getting paid. Some get paid no matter what, others only when they perform well. Depends on how that Univ. Boosters like to roll.

It's real easy for some booster to come into the locker room when it's empty (during the game, postgame, or practice the next week) and slip some cash into a kids clothes in his locker. Guys getting dressed find hundreds of dollars in their clothes, every week. No one "sees" It happen, so everyone can maintain that plausible deniability. AND IT HAPPENS EVERYWHERE.

The pay for play is so rampant in the NCAA that I personally can't hold THAT against any prospect. It is very hard to be a "student/athlete"' your commitments takes up so much of your time it's almost impossible to have a job. If your parents aren't well off how can you afford things like going on a date or something simple like that. Your making the Univ. A ton of $$$, most people would take a little piece of that action so they can do those simple things like buy gas, food. Eventhough its against the rules. Most of these guys can't afford to do any of that w/o their anonymous contributions.

CHEATING however shows alot about someone. Things like laziness, lack of discipline, dishonesty, stupidity/poor decision making skills, etc. Thats what I would be most concerned about.

[mistertim]

Well the results are in. It's definitive. Blaine Gabbert's superior hand size proves he's the better QB prospect. We can go ahead and close this discussion down now.

Yeah but he only came in at 6'4 3/8. WTF? I thought he was 6'5. Forget it, I don't want Gabbert anymore.

[number twenty-eight]

Alright so on the positive side we have three championships, the highest passer rating ever recorded, possibly the best physical specimen at quarterback to come into the NFL, and the current best player in the country.

On the negative we have allegations of cheating as a freshman, a recruiting solicitation by his father, and a marketing op disguised as an interview.

Hmm.

Edit: Whoa, evidently the BCS game knocked Newton to second in efficiency rating. The first? Yep, Colt Brennan. 2006 was a monster for him.

[mistertim]

Alright so on the positive side we have three championships, the highest passer rating ever recorded, possibly the best physical specimen at quarterback to come into the NFL, and the current best player in the country.

On the negative we have allegations of cheating as a freshman, a recruiting solicitation by his father, and a marketing op disguised as an interview.

Hmm.

Come on, man. Now it seems like you're just trolling with posts like this; looking for someone to bite.

[number twenty-eight]

Heh, yeah that was kinda underhanded. I'm just saying his pros are a lot of the WTFOMG kind., while his cons are pretty tolerable. That's just in my opinion.