FOX: Bush worried America becoming "nativist"

[Tweedr01]

Bush has crazy agility. Do yo uremember the shoe thrower? Bush dodged the first shoe totally, then put his hand over his eyes and peaked through his fingers as the he dodged the second one... a smile on his face the entire time. GW was good at dodgeball as a kid, I suspect.

hahaha funny stuff

[Destino]

What's he attacking again? I don't see any indication nativism, protectionism, or isolationism are being pursued as policy. Furthermore, what the **** is wrong with an "Americans first" policy? If government policies don't exist for the benefit of Americans, for whose benefit do they exist? (Oh, the multinational/global corporations who use our country and policies to rent-seek which should be an abomination to capitalism!).

Immigration and lots of it benefits America and always has. People afraid of too many of a certain type of people have always been on the wrong side of history. Immigration policy in the US is absurd and there is no political will to seriously get anything done. I'm convinced the situation is being maintained to score political points and keep cheap disenfranchised labor flowing in.

[Stew]

hahaha funny stuff

yeah, I have nothing of worth to contribute to the conversation, but I enjoy the hell out of this thread. Very insightful. So I figured Id drop a little humor... and its not even good humor. Every time I think of GW, I think of his cat like reflex and ninja like prowess. For the record though, I enjoy the insight and conversation in this thread.

[Madison Redskin]

Tucson, Arizona (CNN) -- Brisenia Flores arrived in her rural Arivaca, Arizona, home with her parents, Raul Flores and Gina Gonzales, on the evening of May 29, 2009.

The family had spent the day shopping for Brisenia's new shoes about 60 miles northeast in Tucson, her mother testified this week. The 9-year-old girl had just finished the third grade and needed the shoes for summer camp that was about to start, her mom told jurors.

Brisenia went to bed on a couch in the living room so she could sleep with her dog, which wasn't allowed in her room. She fell asleep watching television as her parents slept in their bedroom.

A few hours later, she opened her eyes to the sight of her father, lying on the opposite couch. He had been shot in the chest and was choking on his own blood, her mom testified. Her mother was bleeding on the floor, a gunshot wound to her leg. The little girl was startled and cried out to intruders in her home, "Why did you shoot my mom?"

Read the rest here.

^This is what extremist nativists do, or would like to do.

[Mickalino]

I think that is the key and he was loyal to a fault. Being exceptionally loyal and having a bad team is a really bad combo.

It's a good quality in MOST situations. In some, it can really mess ya up.

Joe Gibbs towards Mark Brunell come to mind

[The Brave Little Toaster Oven]

4 more years!

[Fergasun]

I hadn't heard about that case. WTF:

Prosecutors say Forde planned the raid and the murders in an elaborate plan to steal drugs, weapons and money to help fund her new anti-illegal immigration group. They allege that her accomplices were Jason Bush and Albert Gaxiola. Bush, who is said to have been the gunman, was the national director of operations for the Minutemen American Defense. It's claimed that Forde brought Gaxiola into the plan to raid the home because he had inside knowledge that Raul Flores had drugs in the home. Flores had a history of drug-related offenses, but no drugs were found in the home.

That was pretty awful. What the heck is in the water in Tucson.

Okay seriously, your plan is to fund your "righteous" anti-immigrant group through murder, and narcotics/weapons trafficking? And you actually got 3 people to follow you? What the hell lady.

[Jeeb]

I hadn't heard about that case. WTF:That was pretty awful. What the heck is in the water in Tucson.

Okay seriously, your plan is to fund your "righteous" anti-immigrant group through murder, and narcotics/weapons trafficking? And you actually got 3 people to follow you? What the hell lady.

What's even more strange is the "liberal mainstream media" has largely turned a blind eye to this. I read about this on a blog several weeks ago, even googled it at the time, but this is the only major coverage I have seen at all.

[Madison Redskin]

What's even more strange is the "liberal mainstream media" has largely turned a blind eye to this. I read about this on a blog several weeks ago, even googled it at the time, but this is the only major coverage I have seen at all.

Here's a very interesting article about the various Minuteman organizations.

[Fergasun]

That article on the Minutemen was disgusting. However, I think its a warning to anyone putting faith in any political movement. As well as people who want to start their own political movements. These folks were able to scam most of right-wing-talk-outlets and Fox News for a good part of 2 years, and "claim victory" over the border fence? A huge victory for the GOP and Democrats who look like professionals! Years later I don't hear or see anything on Fox or the same right-wing-talk-outlets about how they were all scammed.

[mardi gras skin]

It's a good quality in MOST situations. In some, it can really mess ya up.

The people you are loyal to will never find fault in your loyalty. If there's no risk that it messes you up, its not really loyalty. Its a convenient alliance.

Loyalty can be a crippling attribute in a politician. But they could write "this guy would have made an awful politician" next to "he was loyal to a fault" and I'd be doubly happy.

[AsburySkinsFan]

The people you are loyal to will never find fault in your loyalty. If there's no risk that it messes you up, its not really loyalty. Its a convenient alliance.

Of course the people you're loyal to will never find fault in your loyalty, after all I've never found fault in my dog for it's loyalty either. However, what I want in my company of friends and co-workers is not loyalty so much as good counsel, honesty, humility, and accountability. That to me is more rewarding than a sense of blind loyalty, because it allows you to see and choose clearly and it allows you to offer correction to those who only want your loyalty. What's more is that to be "loyal to a fault" opens one up to be manipulated, used, and abused. Not for me thanks.

Loyalty can be a crippling attribute in a politician. But they could write "this guy would have made an awful politician" next to "he was loyal to a fault" and I'd be doubly happy.

Again, those are the qualities I look for in a good dog, not in the workplace, politics, or the church.

[boobiemiles]

SO let me understand this; the guy that thumbed his nose at NATO over the Iraq War, feels we should cooperate more with other countries? Am I missing something here. Bush did a lot to tarnish our global indentity so this is interesting. As usual Bush is going against his own parties ideal on Immigration. I wonder if he is saying it's ok to have more jews and italians, but not more muslims from the Middle East.

[AsburySkinsFan]

SO let me understand this; the guy that thumbed his nose at NATO over the Iraq War, feels we should cooperate more with other countries? Am I missing something here. Bush did a lot to tarnish our global indentity so this is interesting. As usual Bush is going against his own parties ideal on Immigration. I wonder if he is saying it's ok to have more jews and italians, but not more muslims from the Middle East.

So...are you blaming him for going against his party's ideal, or are you just posting to try and say that he's racist against Muslims? Personally, given the context of what Bush was saying concerning a sensible Comprehensive Immigration Reform I saw his comments more directed toward Hispanic immigration more than anything else.

But, you go ahead and flame away on one of the most sensible things that Bush has said in years.

[NavyDave]

Why are you guys acting shocked at this statement?

He is a social moderate but we did fight to keep him in check, reign him in especially when he almost screwed up trying to appoint Harriet Miers to the SCOTUS. His Amnesty stance along with Mccain, when it came to illegals back then led to "the Base to vote none of the above in 2006 and 2008.

---------- Post added February-4th-2011 at 12:25 PM ----------

I wonder if he is saying it's ok to have more jews and italians, but not more muslims from the Middle East.

If he doesn't somebody would. Heck how many more stories about honor killings in Jersey, Michigan, and fathers or brothers claiming its part of their religion (Sharia) to do so?

Muslims that assimilate into the USA and become part of the melting pot are okay but those that behave like those radicals in England and France and those in the isolated stories above should be banned from entering.

[The Brave Little Toaster Oven]

I wonder if he is saying it's ok to have more jews and italians, but not more muslims from the Middle East.

That's so far from the truth its comical.

The US gets top pick when it comes to people immigrating to the US from the Middle East...who are your doctors and engineers mostly - Arabs/Persians/Pakis/Indians?

Its the Latinos that tend to get shafted when it comes to immigration because they usually take the low paying jobs that no one wants.

[mardi gras skin]

Again, those are the qualities I look for in a good dog, not in the workplace, politics, or the church.

You claim loyalty to Christ, but loyalty is a quality you expect to find in a dog.

[pjfootballer]

That Iraqi reporter has a good arm. Better than Brunell and Campbell.

[thebluefood]

That article on the Minutemen was disgusting. However, I think its a warning to anyone putting faith in any political movement. As well as people who want to start their own political movements. These folks were able to scam most of right-wing-talk-outlets and Fox News for a good part of 2 years, and "claim victory" over the border fence? A huge victory for the GOP and Democrats who look like professionals! Years later I don't hear or see anything on Fox or the same right-wing-talk-outlets about how they were all scammed.

This is where I am, politically. I was once a vehement libertarian not too long ago; and though I still hold some of those beliefs, I cannot bring myself to put any faith in any sort of political movement or politician of any kind. Support? Of course. Active involvement or dedication? Not anymore. What point is there?

[Fergasun]

This is where I am, politically. I was once a vehement libertarian not too long ago; and though I still hold some of those beliefs, I cannot bring myself to put any faith in any sort of political movement or politician of any kind. Support? Of course. Active involvement or dedication? Not anymore. What point is there?

I guess I'd look for the qualities that I would want in a political movement that I started. Transparency, open-ness, honesty. We're not honest in any of our political debates. I bet someone could start a political party based on honesty and make it work for a few years, and then fall apart as some of the members fall apart and crack under the pressure of simply being in part of that political movement or group. It's pretty sad. This is why I think the "tea party" folk have it backwards. The GOP doesn't really want the ideas, but they do want your votes, and in 2012 after middling around for 2 years they would say "we're going to be better than Obama, vote for us". In my mind, the "Tea party" was a brilliant stroke of genius by the GOP because it branded them completely away from these types of Bush ideas. Yet the GOP is still made up of the same people with the same sympathies. And they aren't even honest.

Let's talk about immigration. In 2006 the big idea was this "700 miles of fence!" We must fund the 700 miles of fence. I think I saw that 70 miles of the fence was built. What do I expect them to harp on now, will they harp on the fence? Harping on the fence is the same stupid "non-idea" idea. Building the fence won't fix the problem. Make e-verify the centerpiece of immigration reform, and don't use it as a bargaining chip. Convince the American people (and legal immigrants) that mandatory e-verify is the way to go. If you want a bargaining chip, throw out the idea that all states should have immigration laws as stringent as Arizona and specifically un-preempt immigration enforcement from current law. I haven't heard anyone talking about un-preempting immigration enforcement by the states). The case is before the Supreme Court, but there's no need to wait for the Supreme Court to rule on it. Simply have strong protections (which are already Constitutional protections) and make a list of things the states can do to help enforce immigration. Again, these things would be simple to at least do in the House (people want to know the usefulness of legislation that won't pass, it shows you are trying to "solve the problem"). I think it would be easy politically to make an issue of "immigration enforcement"; and I'm not talking about workplace raids; I'm talking about preventing illegal immigrants from getting jobs in the first place.

It appears the GOP is simply in a "holding pattern"? Actually, I'm glad that there will be an e-verify hearing in the next week or so in the House Judiciary Committee. They had a hearing on workforce enforcement this week, cool. Glad to see this getting some traction. My Congressman is sub-committee chairman! ICE can only remove 400,000 folks a year... we need stronger way of keeping the folks from coming here.

[MurrayH81]

What is wrong with minding our business and putting our citizens first? Isn't that (according to the Consitution and the Framers) what the government is supposed to be doing? Surely we can do a better job of border enforcement, and employement verification (including penalties for businesses who employ illegal aliens). Surely we can change the work visa/guest worker process to meet the needs of business, while protecting our citizens, states and federal institutions from excessive cost/burden.

I hear people claim these things are impossible and blanket amnesty is the only viable solution. I don't believe that to be the case.

Insofar as being focused on the needs of our own citizens and country first and foremost, I fail to see how that could ever be a bad thing unless we take it outside of our own border aggressively. This world would be arguably a better place if the only thing that crossed borders were raw materials and ideas.

[luckydevil]

Bush was always good on immigration

[ddub52]

What's he attacking again? I don't see any indication nativism, protectionism, or isolationism are being pursued as policy. Furthermore, what the **** is wrong with an "Americans first" policy? If government policies don't exist for the benefit of Americans, for whose benefit do they exist? (Oh, the multinational/global corporations who use our country and policies to rent-seek which should be an abomination to capitalism!).

Shorter Bush: "I support global corporatism/crony capitalism".

Extrapolate this policy to every country, they don't have governments that exist to serve the people, they have governments that exist to... do what exactly? Serve special interests? We have enacted policy in this country that has gutted middle class manufacturing jobs, and then give them all to China and other countries which don't have the same standards as we do, which poses a threat to our self-sufficiency, but to criticize those policies is "nativist" "protectionist" and "isolationist".

THIS. Hit the nail on the head.

---------- Post added February-4th-2011 at 04:50 PM ----------

Bush was always good on immigration

The illegal immigrant population exploded during the Bush years. Bush felt that our economy benefited from them because they provided cheap labor and could even be taxed. How exactly is exploiting illegals that "good on immigration"?

[Madison Redskin]

This world would be arguably a better place if the only thing that crossed borders were raw materials and ideas.

That's certainly what many isolationists, protectionists, and nativists would like to see happen. However, that is NOT what the American people appear to want. Although Americans rail against shipping jobs overseas and foreign goods, their actions speak louder than their words. Most Americans like buying cheap goods, regardless of the origin or whether such purchases effectively export jobs to countries such as China.

[Fergasun]

That's certainly what many isolationists, protectionists, and nativists would like to see happen. However, that is NOT what the American people appear to want. Although Americans rail against shipping jobs overseas and foreign goods, their actions speak louder than their words. Most Americans like buying cheap goods, regardless of the origin or whether such purchases effectively export jobs to countries such as China.

Maybe the "political elites" like that policy... and their wealthy patrons. But the American people? Its a stretch. We're gonna spin down another discussion taking this route. There's a reason Perot got ~ 20% in 1992 and 8 % in 1996?