SkinsHokieFan Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Isn't Pakistan a democracy again? Or at least a democratic republic? Meh. In theory. Really its a bunch of rich guys (about 25 families) and the military that run the country. But yes, there are elections and power DOES actually change hands from time to time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenaa Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Sounds link Mubarek was still insisting this was a minority crowd, fed by the media and it would go away. The Mililtary saw it otherwise and said enough. The military has turned the turrets on the tanks away from the crowd and is handing out water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Free? We will See. Who is going to be on board with sending Billions aid over there if the elect the Muslim Brotherhood or if they do tear up the constitution / treaty with Israel? Tunisia and Saudi Arabia get ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Back to Egypt. I have to think back to those moments last Wednesday where it seemed as if the government was doing everything it could to crush the spirit of the protesters. They beat them, cut them, burnt them, event shot them and yet the people fought for every inch of Tahrir square and by the next day, they had won what at the time seemed to be a small battle. But from then on the government was on the defensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 http://twitter.com/OpieRadio/statuses/36098485698699265MUBARAK STEPS DOWN - Now that you're not the President of Egypt, what are you going to do next? Mebarak: I'm going to Disneyland! Yeah with the 30 plus Billions he probably had stashed away over the decades. ---------- Post added February-11th-2011 at 11:55 AM ---------- Yep, it's going to be a bumpy ride. But tonight, the people have earned some time to celebrate before they start thinking too hard about what they want next. I'm so proud of them. I remember saying something like this when the Tea Party saved our Nation in the November elections last year. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698 #1652: Al-Arabiya reports that the Higher Military Council will sack the cabinet, suspend both houses of parliament and rule with the head of the Supreme Constitutional Court, the country's highest judicial body. A statement is expected later on Friday. Very interesting. I believe the judges in Egypt are very well respected for their independence and impartiality. Hopefully they live up to it here and hopefully this is just a temporary setup until elections. #1644: Another leading opposition figure, Mohamed ElBaradei, tells the Associated Press: "This is the greatest day of my life." The Nobel laureate says Egypt has been "liberated after decades of repression" and that he expects a "beautiful" transition of power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 All one can do is hope for the future, but right now, this is a beautiful thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I remember saying something like this when the Tea Party saved our Nation in the November elections last year. :D Lol. Good comparison. Brave people facing death from a dictatorship, running the gauntlet of tanks and molotov ****tails, risking seeing their families disappear in the middle of the night to the secret police... vs. Old geezers in rascals and lawnchairs complaining that the Kenyan keep his government hands off their Medicare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpyaks3 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Incredible, I am speechless. Couldn't happen to a better people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 All one can do is hope for the future, but right now, this is a beautiful thing. It is, and I have to say that I am stunned at the bravery and (especially) the restraint of the Egyptian people. This could have turned into a mad riot and bloodbath so easily, but they kept their heads, day after day. Remarkable. There are no guarantees, but this is a hell of a good start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698Very interesting. I believe the judges in Egypt are very well respected for their independence and impartiality. Hopefully they live up to it here and hopefully this is just a temporary setup until elections. MILITARY coups are not temporary in Egypt but there are always a first time for everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins24 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 That wouldnt be a good revolution for democracy...I have my eye on Syria...then Jordan...then maybe Iran again Pakistan would be nice too, but too many extremists would have their hand in that government like Yemen "Who's next?" literally. As in a realistic timeline. They are much closer to a regime change than those other countries. And while true democracy would be indeed nice, I imagine any democracy in places like Yemen would be fighting a pretty hard fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenaa Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 It is, and I have to say that I am stunned at the bravery and (especially) the restraint of the Egyptian people. This could have turned into a mad riot and bloodbath so easily, but they kept their heads, day after day. Remarkable. There are no guarantees, but this is a hell of a good start. Hard to imagine that such a large mass of people maintained suce restraint. It is this that gives me the greatest hope that they will get the government they desire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Is the US trying to make up for being slow to the ball with Egypt? U.S. slams Iranian 'hypocrisy' for arrests, blocking media http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/meast/02/11/us.iran.hypocrisy/index.html?hpt=T2 Washington (CNN) -- The United States slammed Iran's "hypocrisy" for arresting opposition figures and the blocking of world media outlets as TV networks focus their attention on the uprising in Egypt and the widespread unrest in other parts of the Arab world."For all of its empty talk about Egypt, the government of Iran should allow the Iranian people the same universal right to peacefully assemble, demonstrate and communicate in Tehran that the people are exercising in Cairo," National Security Council spokesman Tommy Vietor said Friday. "Governments must respect the rights of their people and be responsive to their aspirations." But Iranian authorities have blocked reformist websites and detained several opposition supporters and activists, opposition website Saham News reported Thursday. This comes just days after two leading opposition figures called for a rally on February 14 in support of the uprisings in North Africa and the Middle East.Iranian authorities on Wednesday warned against any attempt by the opposition movement to hold the rally, according to the state-run Islamic Republic News Agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenaa Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Sounds like the people are really interested in where all the money that has come into the country is. Odds on Mubarek leaving the country in the next 24 hrs. is probably pretty good. ---------- Post added February-11th-2011 at 11:48 AM ---------- Switzerland has frozen Mubarek's assests. Maybe some of the money he stole will come back to the people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Switzerland has frozen Mubarek's assests. Maybe some of the money he stole will come back to the people I was just about to post that, ha ha! They're talking about the money on CNN right now too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 That wouldnt be a good revolution for democracy...I have my eye on Syria...then Jordan...then maybe Iran again Pakistan would be nice too, but too many extremists would have their hand in that government like Yemen Was trying to do some research for my Ethics class, a few hours ago. Came across this story: Human Rights Watch: Egypt-Inspired Protests Across Middle East Meet Violent Clampdown (New York) - Governments in the Arab world have violently dispersed demonstrations apparently inspired by or in solidarity with Egypt's democracy protesters and have detained some of the organizers, Human Rights Watch said today.The security forces' clampdown is part and parcel of regular prohibitions on public gatherings in Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria, the United Arab Emirates, the West Bank, and Yemen. These governments curtail free expression and assembly despite the fact that almost all of the region's countries have signed international agreements protecting both rights, Human Rights Watch said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 Was trying to do some research for my Ethics class, a few hours ago. Came across this story: Human Rights Watch: Egypt-Inspired Protests Across Middle East Meet Violent Clampdown Hard to say who is next. Definitely Yeaman is up. Maybe Jordan. The problem was Egypt's "revolution", or "peoples coupe" was really a military coupe. The peoples actions were heard and supported by the military almost from the outset which made a wide spread crack down on the demonstrators impossible. That won't be the case in many other states in the ME... Jordan's ruler is by en large respected and seen as enlighted by the people. He's young, relatively new, and dynamic. It's hard to imagine the people or the military kicking him out. Also he's already gotten a head of the demonstrators to some extent by anouncing broad demoncratic reforms... under his devine rule of coarse. Syria too is hard to image an uprising. The ruling authority wouldn't hesitate to use large scale force to stop that from occuring. I think Saudi is in this boat too. Maybe Yeaman will be next. Big problems for us if that's so. Iran could also be next but we know they won't hesitate to use force. As far as Egypt goes this wasn't so much as a coup or a changing of the regime so much as it was a forced retirement inside the regime. The last three rulers in Egypt, Nasser, Saddat, and Mubaric all came from the military. The military just decided here that it was time for Mubaric to go. This in an of itself change anything... Again the fight will be won or lost based upon the terms of future elections and the rights to the individuals.... I would also note that since in any case the Egyptian military will continue to be 'a' if not 'the' power center in the country. Even if free elections are heald, they could decide to take back the country pretty much at any time and appoint another of their ranks to resume power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 The military is giving a statement on state tv. In the meantime: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698 #1821: Ayman Nour, the leader of the Ghad Party who came a distant second to Mr Mubarak in the 2005 presidential election and was jailed afterwards, says this is "the greatest day in the history of Egypt". He tells al-Jazeera TV: "This nation has been born again. These people have been born again, and this is a new Egypt." #1823: More from Ayman Nour: "We look forward to the transition period which is a period that will take us to a civilian state that will meet our legitimate demands of having a civilian free country. I believe the army is aware of its mission in preserving the situation until we move to the civilian period. This is not a coup d'etat. This is an attempt to meet the people demands which is a civilian state." Hmmm, the statement didn't say much, although it did thank Mubarak for his service and salute the martyrs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Jordans King has a bit more protection being directly in Mohamed's line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Hard to say who is next. Definitely Yeaman is up. Maybe Jordan. The problem was Egypt's "revolution", or "peoples coupe" was really a military coupe. Minor point, but . . . . Coup: Coupe: ---------- Part of me is worried that there's going to be a letdown, now. I find myself hoping that the demonstrators will pull a bunch of chairs in a circle and start drafting Constitutional Amendments. (I have 10 in mind that I'd be willing to send them.) I'm half afraid that if they all go home, then in six months, they're just going to elect another round of business as usual. (But maybe I'm simply projecting the way we do things in America.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 As far as Egypt goes this wasn't so much as a coup or a changing of the regime so much as it was a forced retirement inside the regime. The last three rulers in Egypt, Nasser, Saddat, and Mubaric all came from the military. The military just decided here that it was time for Mubaric to go. This in an of itself change anything... Again the fight will be won or lost based upon the terms of future elections and the rights to the individuals....I would also note that since in any case the Egyptian military will continue to be 'a' if not 'the' power center in the country. Even if free elections are heald, they could decide to take back the country pretty much at any time and appoint another of their ranks to resume power. I think that from now on, the people who've been out there protesting will be another power base to watch. They pretty much neutralized the military and the police and I think they will be ready to come out again if someone tries to get too much power. Also of note is the age of the military council. I was watching a clip of them this morning and they are all very old. Considering the popularity of the protesters and their ideas among much of the young military officers, I think things will be very interesting to watch. In the months and years to come, these younger men will take the place of the older generals. Another point, watching the coverage all morning, there was little chance of the regime surviving with the way the people were taking over everything, especially in Cairo. The military acted because they knew the system could not bend any farther without breaking. ---------- Post added February-11th-2011 at 01:48 PM ---------- #1827: The Higher Council of the Egyptian Armed Forces is making another statement. #1830: The military says it is preparing steps to fulfil the Egyptian people's legitimate aspirations. #1836: The military spokesman says: "Hosni Mubarak has decided to step down as president of the republic and to entrust the Higher Council of the Armed Forces to administer the affairs of the state. We are all aware of the magnitude of this issue and the seriousness of the demand of our great people to implement radical changes. The higher council is studying this issue with god's help in an effort to achieve the hopes of our great people." #1837: He adds: "The higher council will later issue another statement which will define the steps that will be followed. It stresses at the same time that there is no other way forward other than the legitimate one aspired to by the people." #1839: The military's statement concludes: "The higher council salutes President Hosni Mubarak for what he has given during his time, in war and peace, and his decision to put the interests of the country first. The higher council also salutes the martyrs who have sacrificed their lives to protect the freedom of their country." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I might have missed it because I've been in and out all day. (theres something for the out of context thread btw!) But, did they retract the state of emergency or is it still in place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.C.O.L.B. Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I might have missed it because I've been in and out all day. (theres something for the out of context thread btw!)But, did they retract the state of emergency or is it still in place? As far as I can tell they haven't done anything outside of announcing that Mubarak is out and who will be replacing him in the short term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I might have missed it because I've been in and out all day. (theres something for the out of context thread btw!)But, did they retract the state of emergency or is it still in place? They said this morning it would be removed once the situation ended. They haven't mentioned it since Mubarak resigned. We'll have to see. I expect it will probably be rescinded in the next few days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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