db: Gibbs: America Will Not Take Sides in Egypt

[JMS]

Gibbs: America Will Not Take Sides in Egypt

The White House could probably use some help in trying to walk this tightrope: While White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs said Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak has an “obligation” to avoid violence against protestors, he also stressed that Mubarak is a “close and important partner,” and said, “This isn’t a choice between the government and the people of Egypt This is not about taking sides.” He also said protestors are obligated to avoid violence, while noting that President Obama has urged Mubarak to adopt liberal reforms.

Read it at Reuters

[zoony]

Haven't we already taken sides with our checkbook?

[Larry]

Haven't we already taken sides with our checkbook?

You trying to claim that sending aid to a country is supporting the current administration? I could see how it might well have that effect, but still.

[twa]

Probably above his paygrade

[zoony]

You trying to claim that sending aid to a country is supporting the current administration? I could see how it might well have that effect, but still.

I might be wrong, but haven't we sold military hardware to them?

[The Brave Little Toaster Oven]

I might be wrong, but haven't we sold military hardware to them?

We sell ships to them...I'm involved in that.

[Larry]

Admittedly, I'm massively ignorant on the subject.

Is this a case of "we want civil rights"? Or a case of "we want an Ayatollah?"

[twa]

their mainly sunni,not shia

[The Brave Little Toaster Oven]

their mainly sunni,not shia

and tons of coptic christians

[twa]

and tons of coptic christians

pretty sure they don't want a Ayatollah either;)

added

ayatollah ( ) n. Islam A high-ranking Shiite religious authority

joke fail if I have to explain it

[twa]

Hmmm

Egypt arrests Muslim Brotherhood leaders

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110128/ts_nm/us_egypt_arrests_1

(Reuters) – Egypt rounded up members of the Muslim Brotherhood including at least eight senior leaders of the group ahead of planned countrywide protests on Friday, a lawyer representing the detained men said.

Lawyer Abdel-Moniem Abdel-Maksoud said at least eight senior figures had been held in raids in the early hours of Friday, including spokesmen Essam El-Erian, Mohamed Mursi and Hamdy Hassan.

"The reason is of course known: it's what is expected to happen tomorrow," he said.

A security source confirmed that authorities had ordered a crackdown on the group overnight: "We have orders for security sweeps of the Brotherhood," the source told Reuters.

added

Egypt: Internet down, police counterterror unit up

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ml_egypt_protest;_ylt=AqWAQlyC3OmbyTp7tp.K7wNg.3QA;_ylu=X3oDMTJ1OWFvZzRtBGFzc2V0Ay9zL2FwL21sX2VneXB0X3Byb3Rlc3QEY2NvZGUDbXBfZWNfOF8xMARjcG9zAzIEcG9zAzIEc2VjA3luX3RvcF9zdG9yaWVzBHNsawNlZ3lwdGludGVybmU-

Internet service in Egypt was disrupted and the government deployed an elite special operations force in Cairo on Friday, hours before an anticipated new wave of anti-government protests.

The developments were a sign that President Hosni Mubarak's regime was toughening its crackdown following the biggest protests in years against his nearly 30-year rule.

The counter-terror force, rarely seen on the streets, took up positions in strategic locations, including central Tahrir Square, site of the biggest demonstrations this week.

Facebook and Twitter have helped drive this week's protests. But by Thursday evening, those sites were disrupted, along with cell phone text messaging and BlackBerry Messenger services. Then the Internet went down.

[visionary]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/01/28/egypt.wikileaks.cables/index.html?hpt=T1

U.S. cables reveal concerns with Mubarak government

U.S. cables: Mubarak still a vital ally

(CNN) -- The U.S. relationship with President Hosni Mubarak's Egypt is full of contradictions and tensions, according to recently published U.S. diplomatic cables, but is also underpinned by similar basic interests in a rough and unpredictable part of the world.

A CNN analysis of secret and confidential cables published by WikiLeaks and its media partners reveals U.S. frustration with Mubarak's lack of succession planning, concerns over stuttering economic reform and private criticism of the Mubarak government's hard line toward domestic opponents.

But the cables also show that Washington sees Egypt as an important and -- until now -- stable ally on issues, including Iran's nuclear program, promoting negotiations between Israel and the Palestinian Authority and making life difficult for Hamas in Gaza.

And above all, Egypt is regarded as a moderate bulwark against Iranian-sponsored Islamist fundamentalism.

The cables show that Mubarak has taken a persistently hard line toward Iran, telling U.S. diplomats in 2008 that he had warned Tehran "not to provoke the Americans" on the nuclear issue and insisting Egypt could never accept a nuclear-armed Iran.

Mubarak has also repeatedly warned of Iran's influence with Hamas in Gaza and Hezbollah in Lebanon, and in a cable from February last year, was quoted as describing "Tehran's hand moving with ease throughout the region, from the Gulf to Morocco."

A 2009 cable noted that with "the discovery of a Hezbollah cell in Egypt, the Egyptians appear more willing to confront the Iranian surrogates and to work closely with Israel." To that end, the cables describe the Mubarak government as a helpful partner in stopping smuggling into Gaza from Egypt. A cable from 2008 quoted a senior Egyptian military figure as stating that Egypt had spent approximately $40 million to purchase the steel for an underground wall on the Gaza border, "and Egypt was paying the cost of this wall in terms of public opinion both within Egypt and the region."

There is no guarantee that any "successor" to the Mubarak government would take such a hard line with Hamas.

For the U.S., the alliance between Egypt and Saudi Arabia has also been an important counterweight to growing Iranian influence on the "Arab street" and among states such as Syria and Qatar.

Egyptian officials, from Mubarak down, have also repeatedly impressed upon visiting Americans -- military, diplomatic and Congressional -- that it alone among Arab states can play a mediating role between Israel and the Palestinians. [Egypt signed a peace treaty with Israel in 1979, and Mubarak has resisted popular opposition to it.]

[Larry]

It's a tough position.

If the government cracks down on dissent, then it creates greater dissent. And my own opinion is that it also increases resentment towards the US. Seems like what he's doing is increasing the chances that, one or two or ten years from now, there's going to be a radical, anti-US, terrorist-sponsoring government there.

If I had unlimited power, what I'd like to see there would be a prosperous country, with a secular government, universal civil rights, and a bunch of middle class people sitting in front of their TVs. (Preferably Redskins fans.)

[zoony]

If I had unlimited power, what I'd like to see there would be a prosperous country, with a secular government, universal civil rights, and a bunch of middle class people sitting in front of their TVs. (Preferably Redskins fans.)

I'm not convinced that is what Egyptians want. Which is one of the big problems with democracy in the middle east.

[JMS]

It's a tough position.

Yes it is. It's the same problem Jimmy Carter faced in 1979 when the Iranian revolution occured. Arguable Carter made the wrong choice too. Today you could easily make the case that the religious leaders of Iran have become worse than the shah ever was.

Still is it really a choice anybody wants America to even be involved in for another country?

a secular government, universal civil rights, and a bunch of middle class people sitting in front of their TVs. (Preferably Redskins fans.)

It's very interesting. In the west our history is one of corrupt religious leaders dominating civilization throughout the dark ages, and being brought into check by secular nationalistic leaders with the Reformation who instilled in the people more rights and protections. In the east it's really the oposite. In their history they had corrupt secular rulers supressing the people for centuries who were brought into line by religious leaders who won for the people more rights. Thus here in the west we trust secular leadership; and in the east they tend to trust religious leadership; but we both do so for the same reasons. Their proven track record of reform.

[zoony]

It's very interesting that. In the west our history is one of corrupt religious leaders dominating civilization throughout the dark ages, and being brought into check by secular nationalistic leaders with the Reformation.

In the east it's really the oposite. In their history they have corrupt secular leaders supressing the people, who were brought into check by religious leaders. Thus here in the west we trust secular leadership; and in the east they tend to trust religious leadership more.

Interesting point for sure.

[Destino]

The US siding with your political cause doesn't strike me as helpful in the middle east. This seems like a obvious reaction from Washington.

[twa]

Nobel Peace laureate Mohamed ElBaradei was under house arrest in Cairo Friday, Egyptian security officials said, as violent anti-government demonstrations swept the country

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41307908/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa/

Reuters and Al-Jazeera reported that the police had abandoned central areas of Suez, after they were unable to disperse the protesters. At least eight police trucks were left behind, Reuters said.

There was a similar report from the Mediterranean port city of Alexandria.

The Guardian newspaper quoted Peter Bouckaert, of Human Rights Watch, as saying: "The police have now given up fighting the protesters. The police and protesters are now talking, with protesters bringing water and vinegar (for tear gas) to the police.

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"Now walking down to downtown Alexandria, the whole road is packed as far as we can see, people shouting slogans against Mubarak and his son Gamal. Asking others to join them. It is a very festive atmosphere. Women in veils, old men, children, I even saw a blind man being led. And there are no police anywhere," he added.

In Cairo, leading democracy campaigner ElBaradei took to the streets Friday for the first time since his return to Egypt on Thursday. He met a forceful response.

Police used batons to beat some of his supporters, who surrounded him to protect him.

'Peaceful, peaceful'

They were soaked with water cannons and eventually were forced to take refuge in a mosque, where they were trapped by riot police.

[ACW]

Just gonna start a thread on this. ElBaradei arrested; the internet shut down for most of the country; things going down.

[Larry]

Actually, this is one of those times when I find myself wondering if maybe the thing that Carter was most ridiculed for, if Carter wasn't right.

I'm referring to the long-standing American foreign policy that we will help Hitler exterminate the Jews, if he says he's fighting communism (or some other thing that America doesn't like).

How much of the fact that a lot of, say, Latin America, hates the US, is because, as long as the Dictator isn't a commie, our policy was that we would train the Dictator's secret police in the latest torture techniques to use on those people who print newspapers complaining about the secret police torturing people?

How much of the currently rampant anti-Americanism in the Middle East, wouldn't exist if we demanded that we won't support people who repress religious minorities? (Maybe even (gasp!) including Israel in that category.) If our policy towards countries were based on their civil rights policies, instead of how cheap they sell oil for?

I know that, for example, a lot of people blame Carter for discontinuing support for the Shah, because if his civil rights record. But was he wrong?

Is there an America-hating Ayatollah in charge of Iran, right now, because Carter stopped supporting the Shah? Or because the US did support the Shah, for decades?

[twa]

Is there an America-hating Ayatollah in charge of Iran, right now, because Carter stopped supporting the Shah? Or because the US did support the Shah, for decades?

You can be right and it be the wrong choice....Carter is intelligent and a good hearted man,but was not very smart

Results matter more than principles in some things(yeah I know I'll catch hell for that) and hope is not a good basis for policy.

Of course it is easy to drive from the backseat.

[Special K]

Jeezo whizzo, I'm watching the news now and I can't believe how bad things have gotten. I mean I can believe it, but these videos are absolutely incredible.

I really hope our board's jpayak, stays safe.

[visionary]

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/01/28/clashes-erupt-in-cairo-elbaradei-told-to-stay-put-cnn-camera-confiscated/?hpt=T1&iref=BN1

Unrest in Egypt: Mobile companies ordered to cut service

[updated 1:33 p.m. (2033 in Egypt)] A pair of CNN iReporters sent impressive video of demonstrators forcing riot police to retreat across the Kasr Al Nile Bridge.

[updated 1:25 p.m. (2025 in Egypt)] The Egyptian government has ordered cell phone companies to shut down service in selected areas, Vodafone says, adding that it is obliged by law to comply with the order.

[updated 1:19 p.m. (2047 in Egypt)] Demonstrators in Cairo surrounded a military vehicle, but they were cheering the army, a respected institution in Egypt.

[updated 12:47 p.m. (1947 in Egypt)] Protesters at the Information Ministry in Cairo are chanting, "The people and the army, we are one," CNN's Fred Pleitgen reports.

[updated 12:44 p.m. (1944 in Egypt)] Armored personnel carriers are pulling into Alexandria. Protesters are embracing the military presence, CNN's Nic Robertson reports.

[updated 12:42 p.m. (1942 in Egypt)] Egyptian TV is reporting that the curfew has been extended to all provinces in Egypt.

[updated 12:37 p.m. (1937 in Egypt)] The Dow Jones Industrial Average is down 140 points at midday in New York because of the unrest in Egypt. The price of oil has soared $3.70 a barrel and gold has rallied by more than $22 an ounce.

[updated 12:21 p.m. (1921 in Egypt)] Demonstrators are attacking a police station in Cairo housing officers who protect the state Information Ministry, CNN's Ben Wedeman reports. Live gunfire can be heard, he says.

[updated 12:10 p.m. (1910 in Egypt)] Secretary of State Hillary Clinton called on the Egyptian government to exercise restraint in dealing with protests and to respect citizens' human rights. She also cautioned demonstrators to refrain from violence. Clinton asked the government "to allow peaceful protests and reverse the unprecedented steps it has taken to cut off communications." "We are deeply concerned about the use of violence by Egyptian police and security forces against protesters and we call on the Egyptian government to do everything within its power to restrain its security forces," Clinton said. "At the same time, protesters should also refrain from violence and express themselves peacefully." Clinton was speaking to reporters at the State Department after a meeting with Colombia's vice president.

[updated 11:58 a.m. (1858 in Egypt)] Protesters are trying to make their way into the center of Cairo despite the government's imposition of an overnight curfew, CNN's Ben Wedeman reports. Egyptian army personnel are not confronting them, and the protesters are treating the soldiers with respect, he says.

[updated 11:50 a.m. (1850 in Egypt)] Fires can be seen in front of the Egyptian ruling party headquarters in Cairo, state-run Nile TV said Friday night. A Nile TV anchor said "criminals" are setting the blazes.

[updated 11:34 a.m. (1834 in Egypt)] A protester in Cairo appears to be shot when he picks up a rock to throw at riot police; witnesses and a security source say the man died.

some updates There's a lot more earlier ones. Also there's some vidoes on the page this was posted on.

From some of this, It seems that the protesters are trying to get the military on their side. Could a military based overthrow be on the way?

Here's some of the earlier updates

[updated 10:51 a.m. (1751 in Egypt)] Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak is expected to make a speech this evening to address the unrest.

[updated 10:37 a.m. (1737 in Egypt)] CNN's Nic Roberston reports a police station is among buildings on fire in downtown Alexandria.

[updated 10:33 a.m. (1730)] The Egyptian government has imposed a curfew in Cairo, Suez and Alexandria, effective less than 30 minutes from now (11 a.m. ET, 1800 in Egypt), according to Egyptian state TV.

[updated 10:24 a.m. (1724 in Egypt)] See photos taken by a CNN iReporter from a hotel window in Cairo.

[updated 10:21 a.m. (1721 in Egypt)] Police reportedly are confiscating cameras from guests, including tourists, at the Hilton Hotel in Cairo.

[updated 10:13 a.m. (1713 in Egypt)] Egyptian opposition leader Mohamed ElBaradei has been placed under house arrest, a high-level security source told CNN Friday.

[updated 10:04 a.m. (1704 in Egypt)] CNN's Ben Wedeman reports his first sighting of Egyptian army troops getting involved in the unrest in Cairo.

Two armored personnel carriers arrived near a bridge to cries of "Allahu akhbar" from protesters, who apparently believe the army will show more restraint than riot police have, Wedeman reported.

[updated 9:57 a.m. (1657 in Egypt)] U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights Navi Pillay on Friday called on Egypt's government "to exercise restraint and protect the rights of its citizens to freedom of expression, information and assembly.

"I call on the government to take concrete measures to guarantee the rights to freedom of peaceful assembly and expression, including by restoring free use of mobile phones and social networks," she said in a statement.

[updated 9:49 a.m. (1649 in Egypt)] One woman killed in clashes in Cairo, Al-Masry Al-Youm newspaper reports via Twitter.

[updated 9:45 a.m. ET (1645 in Egypt) Unrest apparently is worsening in central Alexandria on Friday afternoon, with thick heavy smoke billowing through the streets, eruptions of automatic and single-shot gunfire, and an apparent blaze near the city's Manshia Square, CNN's Nic Robertson reports.

[Larry]

You can be right and it be the wrong choice....Carter is intelligent and a good hearted man,but was not very smart

Results matter more than principles in some things(yeah I know I'll catch hell for that) and hope is not a good basis for policy.

Of course it is easy to drive from the backseat.

You can also pay far too much attention to "what will get me through the next six months" and ignore "what's the best thing, long term".

It's like the deficit: We're going to be paying the price for a generation for 40 years of "works for now".

[visionary]

Mubarak should prepare to leave

http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/01/28/vicenzino.egypt.unrest/index.html

Editor's note: Marco Vicenzino writes about geopolitical risk analysis for global media outlets and is director of the Global Strategy Project, a geopolitical research and analysis organization based in Washington.

(CNN) -- With public pressure mounting against the government of President Hosni Mubarak, the future of Egypt, the broader Middle East and international stability hang in the balance.

Mubarak's best option is to offer Egypt a safe landing. He should lift the 30-year state of emergency, renounce his candidacy in Egypt's September 2011 presidential election and allow civil society to prepare for a free and fair election under full international supervision.

The promise of a clear road map for transition will defuse tensions and ensure stability in Egypt and beyond. Exiting politics pragmatically will also guarantee the safety of Mubarak, who is 82, and that of his inner circle.

Change in the region is inevitable. The question remains: What shape and course will it take in each state? The status quo is clearly unsustainable in the long term. Most people simply have had enough of authoritarian rule and are tired of its constraints.

Social websites, such as Twitter and Facebook, did not cause the current upsurge but serve as critical enablers; the instability is clearly rooted in the lack of political opening, insufficient economic opportunity and years of corruption.

Although Tunisia served as catalyst sparking wider regional activism, the kettle of discontent was simmering in Egypt and beyond long before Tunisia's uprising.