ACW Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Sometimes you have to pay to play.It sucks but it is what it is.... We shouldn't play with this thug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Brave Little Toaster Oven Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 I was wrong. Egypt is collapsing. My coworkers in Egypt are trying to evacuate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACW Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 I was wrong. Egypt is collapsing. My coworkers in Egypt are trying to evacuate...And it's partly your fault :stick::jk: (kinda) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Just what would you like him to do? Go to Cairo. Alone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Go to Cairo.Alone You sound like Allen West. :2cents: ---------- Post added January-30th-2011 at 02:04 AM ---------- We shouldn't play with this thug. I agree with you that we SHOULDN'T but sometimes the alternative is worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Brave Little Toaster Oven Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 I was wrong. Egypt is collapsing. My coworkers in Egypt are trying to evacuate... From what they've said, the media is making this worse than it actually is in Alexandria...it is bad, but its been blown out of proportion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Is that a compliment or insult? You asked.....maybe he can show them his peace prize and spread oil on the waters But enough of the sidetrack,this is not about us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Is that a compliment or insult? You asked.....maybe he can show them his peace prize and spread oil on the waters But enough of the sidetrack,this is not about us It wasn't a compliment or an insult. Just an observation. But as you said, it's not about us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 There are however many working to make it so http://apnews.myway.com/article/20110129/D9L25G0G1.html The leader of Jordan's powerful Muslim Brotherhood warned Saturday that unrest in Egypt will spread across the Mideast and Arabs will topple leaders allied with the United States. Hammam Saeed's comments were made at a protest outside the Egyptian Embassy in Amman, inspired by massive rallies in neighboring Egypt demanding the downfall of the country's longtime president, Hosni Mubarak. About 100 members of the fundamentalist group and activists from other leftist organizations and trade unions chanted "Mubarak, step down" and "the decision is made, the people's revolt will remain." frustration over inability to contact friends and family there is getting to me,hopefully things improve soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.C.O.L.B. Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 ^^^ A potential change in Egypt has me A LOT more nervous than the potential change in Iran last year. I think there was no doubt that the people of Iran were fighting for their country to go in the right direction. I really, really don't know what to make of Egypt. I think Mubarak uses the Muslim Brotherhood as a boogeyman, but as you said earlier in this thread (or in another thread) they're the ones that are organized (and have been organized for decades now.) Not too mention when I think about a tech-savy middle class potentially up going against THE fundamentalist religious group in the Middle East, I'm not imaging anything good. I guess one positive sign is that any fundamentalist religious element isn't in plain view and obviously fueling all of this like it was in the '79 Iranian revolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 ^^ goes back to choosing, we need to support freedom and individualism and groups that endorse them(which certainly exist there) Egypt is not Iran,nor are her generals as foolish...I hope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACW Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 ^^^A potential change in Egypt has me A LOT more nervous than the potential change in Iran last year. I think there was no doubt that the people of Iran were fighting for their country to go in the right direction. I really, really don't know what to make of Egypt. I think Mubarak uses the Muslim Brotherhood as a boogeyman, but as you said earlier in this thread (or in another thread) they're the ones that are organized (and have been organized for decades now.) Not too mention when I think about a tech-savy middle class potentially up going against THE fundamentalist religious group in the Middle East, I'm not imaging anything good. I guess one positive sign is that any fundamentalist religious element isn't in plain view and obviously fueling all of this like it was in the '79 Iranian revolution. Mubarak DOES use them as a boogeyman, but they ARE more organized. Crafty game that douchebag's playing: lock up the (more secular) opposition, then claim that you're the only thing in the way of Islamist fundamentalist rule.---------- Post added January-30th-2011 at 05:27 AM ---------- I agree with you that we SHOULDN'T but sometimes the alternative is worse.Well yeah, considering he's locked up the secular opposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/01/30/egypt.protests/index.html?hpt=T1 Cairo, Egypt (CNN) -- Fear of anarchy and looting lingered in Egypt on Sunday, with many streets in the nation's capital left without security after police stopped patrolling."It seems that every major square and every small street in Cairo was basically taken over by communities ... people are parading the streets, walking around with baseball bats and knives," said Ahmed Rehab of the Council on American Islamic Relations from Cairo. "We didn't get any sleep all night." Tanks and troops continued to stand guard in the streets Sunday morning, but it was unclear how large anti-government protests would be as President Hosni Mubarak clung to power. About 150 people had gathered in Alexandria by late morning, and crowds were expected to grow as the day continued. Tanks surrounded Cairo's Tahrir Square, where several hundred protesters had gathered. Cell phone and mobile internet service appeared to have returned, but word of a possible new crackdown on communication emerged Sunday.Egypt's information ministry announced the shutdown of the Al Jazeera channel in Egypt and the withdrawal of its media license to operate in the country, state-run Nile TV reported. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACW Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Oh boy...On Facebook, I've asked the Israelis who accompanied us when I went to Israel last Winter what the situation looks like from Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Well yeah, considering he's locked up the secular opposition. Mubarak is "secular" as well and you see the results. And fwiw, I'm not disagreeing with anything you've said in this thread. I think where we differ is the assumption that Mubarak will be replaced with someone better. I'm not so sure about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRSmith Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 One of things these countries in the middle east are going to have to start doing to spreading the wealth that is there around a little. When people are poor and have nothing to lose they are not scared as they have nothing left to lose. The things is when people have their needs and some of their wants met it calms anger and will also bring a bit more peace to the region. If the US really wants to be a force for good in the area they say anymore foriegn aid into the region goes to the people and not to weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 One of things these countries in the middle east are going to have to start doing to spreading the wealth that is there around a little. When people are poor and have nothing to lose they are not scared as they have nothing left to lose.The things is when people have their needs and some of their wants met it calms anger and will also bring a bit more peace to the region. If the US really wants to be a force for good in the area they say anymore foriegn aid into the region goes to the people and not to weapons. Thats a great idea, and very noble, but with the regime structures in place already we will never have that guaranty. This is my biggest issue with so called "foreign aid". It rarely makes it to where it is intended. Rand makes this same point in the Blitzer interview when he was challenged on this concept actually. he mentions that while we give Israel aid, we simultaneously give the Arab states around them aid too. In effect, we end up financing two sides of a conflict, and maybe even escalate the chances for war between them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACW Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Mubarak is "secular" as well and you see the results. And fwiw, I'm not disagreeing with anything you've said in this thread. I think where we differ is the assumption that Mubarak will be replaced with someone better. I'm not so sure about that. He's locked up anyone better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 He's locked up anyone better. He's probably locked up someone worse as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRSmith Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Thats a great idea, and very noble, but with the regime structures in place already we will never have that guaranty. This is my biggest issue with so called "foreign aid". It rarely makes it to where it is intended. Rand makes this same point in the Blitzer interview when he was challenged on this concept actually. he mentions that while we give Israel aid, we simultaneously give the Arab states around them aid too. In effect, we end up financing two sides of a conflict, and maybe even escalate the chances for war between them. THe US has not cared if the money went to the people they were happy for money to go fight against terrorists, people do not care if the Muslim Botherhood gets locked up because they do not like Israel, so you turn a blind eye to things people do as long as they fight your enemies and what they end up doing is making the area ripe for more anger and hate. The problem is the US gives Israel more aid so not only can they invest in their citizens but their military as well and the government know much of their aid goes in weapons because many times the aid does not leave the country. The money that is said to go in foriegn aid oftern goes to US weapons manufactures as part of the deal for aid is that it is spent buying from American companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 So our dropping the value of the dollar resulting in higher prices for staples in Egypt (which is tied to the dollar) is a bad Idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 THe US has not cared if the money went to the people they were happy for money to go fight against terrorists, people do not care if the Muslim Botherhood gets locked up because they do not like Israel, so you turn a blind eye to things people do as long as they fight your enemies and what they end up doing is making the area ripe for more anger and hate.The problem is the US gives Israel more aid so not only can they invest in their citizens but their military as well and the government know much of their aid goes in weapons because many times the aid does not leave the country. The money that is said to go in foriegn aid oftern goes to US weapons manufactures as part of the deal for aid is that it is spent buying from American companies. yes, and the same thing happens with virtually all US foreign aid. In fact, you make a great case for ending said aid (much like Paul is saying btw) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRSmith Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 yes, and the same thing happens with virtually all US foreign aid. In fact, you make a great case for ending said aid (much like Paul is saying btw) Well no what you can do is say such aid will go to but things things that are technological that are not for war, or for farming and building and not tearing down (like the military grade and outfitted bulldozers that Israel buys from Catapiller.) Then in turn you promote investments in such field where the advances made can not only benefit Ameircans with jobs but also with the upgrades in those fields. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Well no what you can do is say such aid will go to but things things that are technological that are not for war, or for farming and building and not tearing down (like the military grade and outfitted bulldozers that Israel buys from Catapiller.)Then in turn you promote investments in such field where the advances made can not only benefit Ameircans with jobs but also with the upgrades in those fields. we already do say that for most aid. It;s the fact that we have no control after the aid is delivered to their central governments where we miss the boat. That is something we have no control over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRSmith Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 we already do say that for most aid. It;s the fact that we have no control after the aid is delivered to their central governments where we miss the boat. That is something we have no control over. The US can simply say we are not shipping anymore weapons to the area And then say all aid will be shipped in the following form and not cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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