twa Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 The US can simply say we are not shipping anymore weapons to the areaAnd then say all aid will be shipped in the following form and not cash. That does not really alter the dynamic if they desire weapons If I supply your groceries it means ya can afford to buy the guns ya wanted with the money saved(though Russia and company won't mind the indirect subsidy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRSmith Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 That does not really alter the dynamic if they desire weaponsIf I supply your groceries it means ya can afford to buy the guns ya wanted with the money saved(though Russia and company won't mind the indirect subsidy) And if you find out they are buying weapons you say you do not need our aid But the middle east is now seeing what happens when you do not invest in your people, they can only hate Israel for so long and starting hating the government ---------- Post added January-30th-2011 at 10:53 AM ---------- So our dropping the value of the dollar resulting in higher prices for staples in Egypt (which is tied to the dollar) is a bad Idea? Staples are going up because more and more people in place like in India can not afford to buy more pushing up the prices A lower Us dollar means the US buys less and other countries can afford to buy more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Staples are going up because more and more people in place like in India can not afford to buy more pushing up the prices A lower Us dollar means the US buys less and other countries can afford to buy more That is not the line being sold http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Riots-caused-by-high-prices-are-the-result-of-US-Fed-policies-20602.html Asia, Africa, Latin America and Europe have seen huge increases in food and fuel prices. The cost of wheat and other agricultural products has risen not because of shortages, but because of inflation generated by the Federal Reserve. The gap between economic elites and the population is widening. http://www.khilafah.com/index.php/the-khilafah/economy/10765-only-the-caliphate-can-shield-the-ummah-from-the-rise-in-food-prices Only the Caliphate can shield the ummah from the rise in food prices Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRSmith Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 That is not the line being soldhttp://www.asianews.it/news-en/Riots-caused-by-high-prices-are-the-result-of-US-Fed-policies-20602.html Asia, Africa, Latin America and Europe have seen huge increases in food and fuel prices. The cost of wheat and other agricultural products has risen not because of shortages, but because of inflation generated by the Federal Reserve. The gap between economic elites and the population is widening. http://www.khilafah.com/index.php/the-khilafah/economy/10765-only-the-caliphate-can-shield-the-ummah-from-the-rise-in-food-prices Only the Caliphate can shield the ummah from the rise in food prices This statement from the Asian time shows a serious lack of studying history Famine has not caused popular unrest—certainly not in ways known to humanity for thousands of years. Grain production[6] dropped by 2 per cent drop last year, too little to explain the actual rise in prices. You second article seems to diagree with the first In its gloomiest forecast since the 2007/08 food crisis, which saw food riots in more than 25 countries and 100 million extra hungry people, the report's authors urged states to prepare for hardship. "Countries must remain vigilant against supply shocks," the report warned. "Consumers may have little choice but to pay higher prices for their food. The size of next year's harvest becomes increasingly critical. For stocks to be replenished and prices to return to more normal levels, large production expansions are needed in 2011." Much now hangs on next year's harvests, it said. "International prices could rise even more if production next year does not increase significantly - especially in maize, soybean and wheat. Even the price of rice, the supply of which is more adequate than other cereals, may be affected if prices of other major food crops continue climbing." What makes the food equation even worse between the ‘haves and the have nots' is rampant speculation by the haves. Speculation usually translates into huge food price spikes, especially when the value of the dollar plunges. This is exactly what happened a few years ago. And now after the recent announcement by the US Federal Reserve to spend an extra $600 billion to stimulate the US economy, speculation on the price of essential food commodities has increased and will continue do so for a considerable time to come. The net effect is that food prices will increase sharply and thereby deprive millions around the world of a basic right. Supply and speculation, at some point and time people will tire of specualtors driving up prices and those who control the supply cutting the amounts to increae demand and drive up prices Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 This statement from the Asian time shows a serious lack of studying historyFamine has not caused popular unrest—certainly not in ways known to humanity for thousands of years. Grain production[6] dropped by 2 per cent drop last year, too little to explain the actual rise in prices. You second article seems to diagree with the first I said lines being sold http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=203015973545354677871.000499b16caba320e204a&z=3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/01/30/egypt.protests/index.html?hpt=T1 Fighter jets over Cairo as protesters return to streets Cairo, Egypt (CNN) -- Fighter jets flew low over the crowd of tens of thousands of protesters defying a state-imposed curfew Sunday in Cairo's Tahrir Square.The jets flew so low, according to CNN staffers on the ground, that their ****pits could be seen. But many among the protesters insisted on standing their ground on the sixth day of demonstrations aimed at bringing an end to Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak's government. A group of Egyptian troops fired warning shots at a car that attempted to run a barricade around Tahrir Square, but the vehicle made it through the barricade and escaped, according to CNN photographer Joe Duran. At a glance: Nations facing unrest In a statement carried by state television, Gen. Mohamad Tantawi, the defense minister in the sacked Egyptian government, urged the public to obey the 4 p.m. - 8 a.m. curfew (9 a.m.-1 a.m. ET). Tantawi was escorted to the network's headquarters by red-helmeted troops in a convoy of sport-utility vehicles. The demonstrations throughout the day were generally peaceful, and at times felt like a music festival, with people cheering, chatting, and posing for pictures with members of the military in their tanks. The army had been deployed to replace police forces that had crashed brutally with demonstrators. One of the biggest concerns of many Egyptians in the wake of the chaos -- that prisoners could escape -- proved true. State-run TV Nile TV said some prisoners broke out of Abu Zaabal prison in Cairo, though it was not immediately clear how many. At the Ataa prison in Al Badrashin, a town in Giza, some prisoners broke out as well. Roughly 1,000 inmates escaped from Prison Demu in Fayoum, southwest of Cairo, Nile TV reported early Sunday.More than 3,000 people have been arrested so far, including some prisoners and looters, Nile TV reported. Opposition leader Mohamed ElBaradei on Sunday called on Mubarak to "leave today and save the country.""This is a country that is falling apart," ElBaradei told CNN's "Fareed Zakaria GPS." Egypt is entering a period of transition, and a government of national unity is needed to fill the void and hold "fair and free" elections, ElBaradei said. http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/01/30/latest-developments-in-egypt-unrest/?hpt=T1 – [update 7 p.m. Cairo, Noon ET] Egyptian opposition leader Mohamed ElBaradei has arrived in Cairo's Tahrir Square to address protesters, witnesses said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 The US can simply say we are not shipping anymore weapons to the areaAnd then say all aid will be shipped in the following form and not cash. You understand that this is already done, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 I keep flashing back to the post that suggested that if Mubarik says he won't run for reelection, then the protests evaporate. Seem to recall that there's an election already scheduled for later this year? If Mubarik is willing to announce his retirement at the end of this term, then the focus shifts from getting rid of him to "Who are we gonna vote for?" There's a peaceful transition. I think it would be the best possible outcome. I just saw McCain saying some pretty similar stuff on cnn. He said that Mubarak needs to make a statement that he is not running again and will hand the government over to a caretaker who will run things until the election and who will have no further political aspirations after that. And that the elections should be fair and free and open to international observers and such. And here's what El Baradei had to say today. http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/01/30/egypt.elbaradei/index.html?hpt=C1 This is a country that is falling apart," ElBaradei told CNN's "Fareed Zakaria GPS."Egypt is entering a period of transition, and a government of national unity is needed to fill the void and hold "fair and free" elections, ElBaradei said. Mubarak continues to cling to power, though he sacked his government and appointed a new vice president and prime minister. "I think this is a hopeless, desperate attempt by Mubarak to stay in power," ElBaradei said. "I think it is loud and clear from everybody in Egypt that Mubarak has to leave today, and it is non-negotiable for every Egyptian." A transitional unity government is needed to move the country from dictatorship to democracy, he said. "Egypt needs to catch up with the rest of the world. We need to be free, democratic, and a society where people have the right to live in freedom and dignity," he said. Asked if he would serve as interim president of Egypt, ElBaradei said that if the people of Egypt requested his leadership, he would serve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 You don't think the people would be satisfied with Mubarik announcing "I will peacefully hand over power to whoever wins the upcoming election" settles things down? Does the guy need to be run out of town this week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 You don't think the people would be satisfied with Mubarik announcing "I will peacefully hand over power to whoever wins the upcoming election" settles things down? Does the guy need to be run out of town this week? I think at this point, he needs to give them a reason to believe him. He can say whatever he wants and without providing evidence that he'll follow through on it, no one will care. I don't know if that means he needs to step down today, but he has to do something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Some recent updates I'm curious about the report of police returning everywhere. I wonder how that will go over with folks, if it's true. http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/01/30/latest-developments-in-egypt-unrest/?hpt=T1 – [update 11:56 p.m. Cairo, 4:56 p.m. ET] Police forces have returned to the streets in all police districts and all parts of Egypt, according to a report late Sunday on state-run Nile TV. The Egyptian army had been deployed to replace police forces that had clashed brutally with demonstrators.– [update 11:08 p.m. Cairo, 4:08 p.m. ET] With many grocers closing shop and food shipments spotty because of unrest, food in Egypt is in short supply, CNN's Salma Abdelaziz reports. Some Egyptian families are running out of staples such as bread, beans and rice. – [update 10:38 p.m. Cairo, 3:38 p.m. ET] Heavy machine gun fire could be overheard Sunday night as thousands of protesters demanding the ouster of Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak marched through downtown Alexandria, CNN's Nic Robertson reported. Army troops were positioned in various parts of the port city, having moved some of their checkpoints over the weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-na-white-house-egypt-20110131,0,6627312.story White House quietly prepares for a post-Mubarak era in EgyptReporting from Washington — A tight-lipped White House is taking an even-handed approach to the crisis in Egypt, suggesting that President Mubarak might be able to hold onto power if he allows competitive elections and restores individual freedoms. But inside the Obama administration, there are signs that officials are preparing for a post-Mubarak era after three decades. One former senior administration advisor said he had spoken to his old colleagues inside the Obama administration in recent days about the unrest in Egypt. As early as last Wednesday, the Obama administration recognized that they would not be able to prop up the Mubarak regime and keep it in power at all costs, the former official said. "They don't want to push Mubarak over the cliff, but they understand that the Mubarak era is over and that the only way Mubarak could be saved now is by a ruthless suppression of the population, which would probably set the stage for a much more radical revolution down the road.'' Obama gave a much-publicized speech in Cairo in 2009 warning that governments cannot suppress people's rights. With protesters massing in the street demanding Mubarak's ouster, Obama would be hard-pressed to side with a repressive leader. Obama administration officials "recognized that change was coming and they needed to be on the right side of history and not try to keep Mubarak in power against all odds,'' the former official said. "It's a very difficult balance to be struck. Mubarak is, after all, a friend of the United States for the last 30 years. A lot of our allies in the region -- the Saudis, Jordanians and Kuwaitis -- will be particularly nervous if it looks like the U.S. is doing in one of their friends. "The administration understand this. But the most important thing they understand is that they have to get in front of this and not behind it.'' The former administration official spoke on condition of anonymity so that he could be more candid about sensitive diplomatic issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 I'm thinking that one of the things we should be doing is trying to offer the guy a Golden Parachute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.C.O.L.B. Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 I'm thinking that one of the things we should be doing is trying to offer the guy a Golden Parachute. In what form? Apparently the interior minister isn't stepping down. That's not going to go over well. They hate him as much as Mubarak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Visionary, I'm calling BS on that Nile TV report about the police. Numerous reporters on the ground are saying that the police aren't anywhere to be found and that civilian-organized neighborhood patrols are walking the streets to prevent looting. I think the state-run media are being told to convey a sense of order and control established by the "new" government. ---------- Post added January-30th-2011 at 07:50 PM ---------- Also, apparently the Muslim Brotherhood has endorsed Mohamed ElBaradei, who's secular and pretty friendly with the West. Interesting move. Seems to indicate a willingness to compromise to get rid of Mubarak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Brave Little Toaster Oven Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Hubbs, from what I am being told by my coworkers in Egypt...the media is blowing it out of proportion. It is bad right now, but it is not as bad as it is being reported. Hurricane Katrina comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Hubbs, from what I am being told by my coworkers in Egypt...the media is blowing it out of proportion. It is bad right now, but it is not as bad as it is being reported. Hurricane Katrina comes to mind. No, I wasn't saying that it was anarchy. I should have been clearer. From what I can tell, the neighborhood patrols are doing a good job - in fact, I've read a few tweets saying that the patrols are better than the police normally were, because there's cooperation between the patrols and the people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Apparently the interior minister isn't stepping down. That's not going to go over well. They hate him as much as Mubarak. Assume this is one of those countries where "Interior Minister" means "Head of the Secret Police", not "Smokey the Bear". Also, apparently the Muslim Brotherhood has endorsed Mohamed ElBaradei, who's secular and pretty friendly with the West. Interesting move. Seems to indicate a willingness to compromise to get rid of Mubarak. Oooh, that does sound hopeful, to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.C.O.L.B. Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Assume this is one of those countries where "Interior Minister" means "Head of the Secret Police", not "Smokey the Bear". That's exactly what he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 That's exactly what he is. I thought that was the new VP Suleiman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.C.O.L.B. Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 I thought that was the new VP Suleiman? The new VP is head of intelligence. The Interior Minister is head of the police forces inside the country. They blame him for all the torture and disappearances and general abuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Brave Little Toaster Oven Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 The new President will be pro-West as well. I dont think you have to worry about Egypt falling under control of the extremists...too many Egyptians are moderates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Well, as I understand it, Interior Minister is one of those jobs where it's real tough to retire, and live, unless you leave the country. (It's also, as I understand it, a job where a lot of people go from there to being President. Maybe this guy thought he was going to get to be the Boss in a few years.) Again, if the guy wants a house on the Riviera, and two weeks a year at Disney, I'd sure offer it to him. Since I would assume that, right now, he's wondering what the odds are that he'll still be alive in a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 The new VP is head of intelligence. The Interior Minister is head of the police forces inside the country. They blame him for all the torture and disappearances and general abuses. You are conflating the police with the secret police http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=205798 In 1993, he was appointed by Mubarak to head the all-powerful General Intelligence Directorate, which has been described by Egyptian journalist Issandr Amrani as an organization that “combines the intelligence-gathering elements of the CIA, the counterterrorism role of the FBI, the protection duties of the Secret Service, and the high-level diplomacy of the State Department.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Visionary, I'm calling BS on that Nile TV report about the police. Numerous reporters on the ground are saying that the police aren't anywhere to be found and that civilian-organized neighborhood patrols are walking the streets to prevent looting. I think the state-run media are being told to convey a sense of order and control established by the "new" government.---------- Post added January-30th-2011 at 07:50 PM ---------- Also, apparently the Muslim Brotherhood has endorsed Mohamed ElBaradei, who's secular and pretty friendly with the West. Interesting move. Seems to indicate a willingness to compromise to get rid of Mubarak. That seems promising. Unless of course he offered them some sort of positions, lol. I haven't seen any new news from Egypt on tv in a while. So I'm not sure about the police situation at the moment. I have a feeling that police are back in some places, but only as a compliment to the army or to protect important buildings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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