jpyaks3 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Protesters are marching towards the palace along Khalifa al Maamoun. I think tonight is far from over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebluefood Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 jpyaks3, I know you're in Cairo and so you'd probably know a lot better than I would or most people I know: How strong is Muslim Brotherhood's influence on the anti-government movement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 jpyaks3, I know you're in Cairo and so you'd probably know a lot better than I would or most people I know:How strong is Muslim Brotherhood's influence on the anti-government movement? I think he actually left Egypt around a week ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I think he actually left Egypt around a week ago. Iedit: NM LOL, I thought you were speaking of Mubaric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 jpyaks3, I know you're in Cairo and so you'd probably know a lot better than I would or most people I know:How strong is Muslim Brotherhood's influence on the anti-government movement? Just speaking as somebody who's knowledge of the subject consists of "I've read this thread", I don't think anybody (well, anybody who's saner than Glenn Beck) thinks the Brotherhood started this revolution. I think some folks are afraid that if the government collapses, the Brotherhood might well emerge from the chaos as the most powerful Party, simply because they are by far the largest organized opposition Party in Egypt, right now. They'd have a massive head start on everybody else, six months before an election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebluefood Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I think he actually left Egypt around a week ago. He'd probably still know better than me or most of us since I don't think any of us have been in Egypt recently. I'm in an argument with a family member who is CONVINCED that Muslim Brotherhood is gonna take over. I think it's possible, but I think they're a red herring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpyaks3 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 jpyaks3, I know you're in Cairo and so you'd probably know a lot better than I would or most people I know:How strong is Muslim Brotherhood's influence on the anti-government movement? I am actually back in the states for a little while. But the Brotherhood has been a minor part of the January 25th revolution. They weren't involved at all as an organization until after the big protests on the 25th they joined in on the 28th but still weren't a force. They really are just a minor part of a much bigger movement. They kind of have been a few steps behind with the protests and are willing to take a back seat to the people who put together the protests. Its been an extremely broad based coalition of people from young to old, conservative hijabs and niqabs next to girls wearing stuff you would see in the west, from christians to muslims to atheists, rich and poor, its really everyone in Egypt. Historically they have been a strong opposition group but this is not the Muslim Brotherhoods protests this is the Egyptian peoples revolution. Reminds me of a story from a friend After being in and out of Tahrir Square regularly since the demonstrations started on the 25th of January, and spending a whole night talking to members of my local neighborhood watch - I decided to take last Wednesday off from 'Tahrir Duty' and rest for a day.Halfway through the day, as a friend passed by, we watched in amazement with the rest of the world while thugs on horses and camels broke into what had so far been the world's most peaceful revolution. It was silly. I know people got hurt. But it was downright silly. We laughed at how clearly desperate the regime had become. Then the mob of hired thugs showed up. We continued to watch for a while. Bit by bit the news said that the demonstrators in Tahrir were now surrounded on all sides by Pro-Mubarak thugs. This worried us, since it seemed that even if things got really bad, and even if our friends had any intention of escaping (and they don't) they would not be able to. And then we saw the molotovs. At one point, I kept count, and counted over 18 molotovs being thrown into Tahrir by the thugs (who we later found out were part hired thugs, part members of the National 'Democratic' Party, and part Plain-Clothed Police Officers). Molotovs. In our minds, it now looked brutally ugly, our friends were surrounded and were about to be torched. The scenario that played out in our heads was that the surrounding throngs would slowly wear them out, the circles would close in and the molotovs would continue. It wasn't a pretty picture to imagine. We feared an absolute massacre, a final reminder by an endangered regime that they were not to be reckoned with, that they were not concerned with even the appearance of being civilized. That despite Mubarak's second speech, the decision had been made to 'remind' us who's Boss. We were very, very, frightened. More so because as we felt obliged to go join our friends (in what we full well believed could be a brutal, final, and possibly successful massacre) we were also told that there were groups of thugs blocking all the streets leading up to Tahrir, so we might not even make it there. Making our attempt at solidarity all the more futile. But it was harder to watch this unfold on tv than it was to go to Tahrir. So we left. As we arrived at Kasr El Nil bridge, leading to Tahrir, we found ourselves in the middle of a group of around 500 'Pro-Mubarak' protesters - and in the middle of a rain of stones - we got through, but that's a story for another day, since the purpose of this piece is a conversation I had when we finally got inside Tahrir Square. As my friend found some of his friends, I was stopped by a small group of fellow demonstrators who asked me how things were on Kasr El Nil - so we started to chat. Two of them were fully bearded Islamic men, one older, the other younger, the other two in the group just seemed like totally 'normal' people. The older Muslim man and I had the following conversation - I might paraphrase a bit, but this is basically what was spoken: Muslim: I have to tell you this. I owe you an apology. A great apology. Me: Huh? What for? Muslim: Before...before - I had...I'm sorry to say this - but I had contempt for people like you. I saw you as a young, irresponsible generation. Internet youth educated in English language universities with nothing on your minds but sex and drugs and the internet....so I didn't come when you started this. I didn't come at the start. But I came on the 4th day, to see what's going on here. And...this is great. This is great what you're doing here! I used to think that we would be the ones to do something like this! That it was up to us, the people of God to spark a change! That it was our job, our task! But...we did not make this thing! We did not lead this thing. I am here behind you, not before you! The man was on the verge of crying as he spoke. I was a bit dumbstruck, but before I could say anything - he continued: Muslim: And there is a lesson in this! There is a great lesson in this from God himself! Can you tell what it is? Can you? Me (dumbstruck still): I'm not sure? No? Tell me? Muslim: I was vain! God taught me a great lesson! I used to think that since I had chosen God that God would choose me! Would choose me to do what had to be done! Would choose us to make a change! But now I know the truth! It is not ours to choose who does what! It is God's choice and God's choice only! And God chose you! God chose you! I've come to realize this! And it has made me feel very small! And then he continued to thank me, and we hugged. So yeah, regarding the Brotherhood... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebluefood Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Just speaking as somebody who's knowledge of the subject consists of "I've read this thread", I don't think anybody (well, anybody who's saner than Glenn Beck) thinks the Brotherhood started this revolution. I think some folks are afraid that if the government collapses, the Brotherhood might well emerge from the chaos as the most powerful Party, simply because they are by far the largest organized opposition Party in Egypt, right now. They'd have a massive head start on everybody else, six months before an election. See, this is exactly what I was saying; but as I said, I'm in an argument with a family member who is absolutely sure that Egypt will become a theocracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 He'd probably still know better than me or most of us since I don't think any of us have been in Egypt recently.I'm in an argument with a family member who is CONVINCED that Muslim Brotherhood is gonna take over. I think it's possible, but I think they're a red herring. You're related to Glen Beck? :pfft: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpyaks3 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I think he actually left Egypt around a week ago. Correct, left exactly a week ago. Still kicking myself for doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.C.O.L.B. Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 **** I hate that I'm stuck in class until 10ish. I can't get a connection on my phone or to get the school wifi to work. I'm dying to know what's going on (I'm on a break now.) Any chance this thing climaxes tonight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpyaks3 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 **** I hate that I'm stuck in class until 10ish. I can't get a connection on my phone or to get the school wifi to work. I'm dying to know what's going on (I'm on a break now.)Any chance this thing climaxes tonight? Tomorrow is going to be the climax, millions will protest and I think they will move on the palace. People right now are moving on the palace and state tv but not sure the numbers but tomorrow after afternoon prayers is when this is going to really kick off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.C.O.L.B. Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 See, this is exactly what I was saying; but as I said, I'm in an argument with a family member who is absolutely sure that Egypt will become a theocracy. Go through this thread man. We've had a ton of discussions on the Muslim Brotherhood and their role in this. I'm of the opinion that there is no way they hijack this, that they are just a boogeyman for Mubarak to weild over the West and others into supporting him, that they are just passengers on this train and have in no way been driving it, and that they don't even come close to reaching al Qaeda levels; that they are just a conservative Muslim group, not a terrorist organization or anything like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebluefood Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 You're related to Glen Beck?:pfft: I actually think she's more radical...and I'm not kidding, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Reminds me of a story from a friend Wow! That was both fascinating and touching at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.C.O.L.B. Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Tomorrow is going to be the climax, millions will protest and I think they will move on the palace. People right now are moving on the palace and state tv but not sure the numbers but tomorrow after afternoon prayers is when this is going to really kick off. God I hope this turns out as peaceful as possible. Back to class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpyaks3 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 See, this is exactly what I was saying; but as I said, I'm in an argument with a family member who is absolutely sure that Egypt will become a theocracy. I can guarantee that won't happen. Hell even the Brotherhood doesn't want that, they want to rule through democratic coalitions just like everyone else. They have already stated that they wouldn't run a Presidential candidates in the next election. They have been the hardest fighters for democracy (along with the Judges) for the last 2 decades, they have given up the most and have worked within the system even under heavy criticism from both inside and outside the organization. ---------- Post added February-10th-2011 at 07:38 PM ---------- 1-2 thousand marching on the Palace in Heliopolis, should be interesting what happens there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 What have they given up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpyaks3 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 What have they given up? Thousands of young men have been detained, tortured and killed just for opposing the government and being part of that group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 That is the price ya pay for attempting violent overthrow So what have they given up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebluefood Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 That is the price ya pay for attempting violent overthrowSo what have they given up? Imprisonment, of course. Torment, though? I don't think so. Besides, he said it himself: Muslim Brotherhood very little influence over the country. I'm inclined to believe him since, you know...he's BEEN over there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpyaks3 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 That is the price ya pay for attempting violent overthrowSo what have they given up? What? They have peacefully been working within the system. There was no violent overthrow attempt. They have been extremely passive in their approach the past decade or two refuses to use violence or do anything but get beat around by the regime. Members have lost millions and millions in investment projects and thousands have been detained, tortured, and killed simply for being a part of the group. Yet in all that time they didn't advocate violence, hell they threw people out who advocated violence. What more can they give up what more can they do to prove they aren't a violent group? ---------- Post added February-10th-2011 at 07:49 PM ---------- Imprisonment, of course. Torment, though? I don't think so.Besides, he said it himself: Muslim Brotherhood very little influence over the country. I'm inclined to believe him since, you know...he's BEEN over there. Yeah all this is also kind of moot since they aren't running a Presidential candidate, and have shown themselves to be willing to form coalitions with both the center and the secular left. So its not like they are some hardline group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebluefood Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 What? They have peacefully been working within the system. There was no violent overthrow attempt. They have been extremely passive in their approach the past decade or two refuses to use violence or do anything but get beat around by the regime. Members have lost millions and millions in investment projects and thousands have been detained, tortured, and killed simply for being a part of the group. Yet in all that time they didn't advocate violence, hell they threw people out who advocated violence. What more can they give up what more can they do to prove they aren't a violent group? See, though, they have "Muslim" in their title. So they MUST be bad. I don't know anything about Muslim Brotherhood (though I'm still a bit leery of them since I'm a strong believer in the separation of church and state), but if the people of Egypt (including Muslim Brotherhood) see Mubarak as a tyrant, then I believe they have every right to give him the slip. After all, isn't that the very principal this country was founded on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 That is the price ya pay for attempting violent overthrowSo what have they given up? I agree with JP, where has the violent attempts been since 1980, if that? The MB became radicalized and started exploring violence in the 1950s when they saw Nasser seize control of the country through violence. The thought was "it worked for him, it can work for us" Lately (meaning my lifetime) they haven't really done much of anything. The boogeyman is scaring you too much man, its all good ---------- Post added February-10th-2011 at 06:53 PM ---------- Yeah all this is also kind of moot since they aren't running a Presidential candidate, and have shown themselves to be willing to form coalitions with both the center and the secular left. So its not like they are some hardline group. A big problem in the west is the failure to see the difference between "Conservative Muslims" and "Terrorists" The Brotherhood is a good example. But wait, they are now infilitrating CPAC via Grover Norquist and already have infilitrated Congress through Congressional interns. They will bring the "Stealth jihad" and "creeping Sharia" to America Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Just because it was before you were born does not mean Egypt(nor it's leaders) forget. Kinda like the Klan...just a social movement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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