Corcaigh Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 368 posts in, and the whole thing still is best summed up by Greta Van Susterin's facial expression while she listened to that "answer." Or she could have "congratulated" Palin on a genuine WTF moment that will continue her coverage in news cycles.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Amazing isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Amazing isn't it? Don't you get tired of defending absurdisms? You really do have amazing endurance or a really boring job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Dr Smith ...The true cause of Enron and the price hikes for cali were in fact govt regulation I won't speak to Enron, but with regard to the California price hikes, this is absolutely incorrect (and completely ridiculous), and I guarantee that I know a lot more about that narrow subject than anyone else on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 I won't speak to Enron, but with regard to the California price hikes, this is absolutely incorrect (and completely ridiculous), and I guarantee that I know a lot more about that narrow subject than anyone else on this board. The regulations prohibiting sufficient local power generation in Cali did not directly influence the price hikes? Yes Bur I do find it boring...but I'm noted for my endurance and do get some pleasure from both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRSmith Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 The regulations prohibiting sufficient local power generation in Cali did not directly influence the price hikes?Yes Bur I do find it boring...but I'm noted for my endurance and do get some pleasure from both What regulation forced power companies to go off line and cause price spikes? What regulation encourages specualtion on prices? Enron was one of the worse culprits to what caused the price spikes as they used the new rules under regulation to game the system and harm the consumers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Enron was one of the worse culprits to what caused the price spikes as they used the new rules under regulation to game the system and harm the consumers. There ya go blaming the wolf for being a wolf while dangling fresh meat. Why was Cali buying from Enron....Cali's regulations or Enrons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dchogs Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 The other thing that would help is if she knew Spudnut was a chain at one time not some mom and pop store with one location there's still one in charlottesville... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 there's still one in charlottesville... My sister lives in Charlottesville. She can see it from her house. (Sorry. Had to. But it is true. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRSmith Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 There ya go blaming the wolf for being a wolf while dangling fresh meat.Why was Cali buying from Enron....Cali's regulations or Enrons? So if the government had not deregulated the energy system the wolf would not have attacked. Interesting just made the arguement for regulation, because there are wolves out there selfish indivuals who will harm their fellow citizens hence needing government protection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 There ya go blaming the wolf for being a wolf while dangling fresh meat.Why was Cali buying from Enron....Cali's regulations or Enrons? Sorry to jump in, but I don't think you're making a valid argument. Wolves are animals who live on instinct. People know better and can control themselves. You're basically giving a pass to people who took advantage by saying "it was there." It's called self-control and moral responsibility. If you consider yourself a Christian then you shouldn't be excusing corruption. And I think you should actually answer his questions before you ask your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrong Direction Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Another take on the Sputnik moment, and Obama's misunderstanding of history. Sorry, is this thread about Palin? http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/258225/sputnik-moment-taylor-dinerman?page=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRSmith Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Another take on the Sputnik moment, and Obama's misunderstanding of history. Sorry, is this thread about Palin?http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/258225/sputnik-moment-taylor-dinerman?page=1 Yes and her defenders attack Obama and try to prove her point that it is bad analogy rather than aknowledging she may not be the best voice for Republicans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Another take on the Sputnik moment, and Obama's misunderstanding of history. Sorry, is this thread about Palin?http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/258225/sputnik-moment-taylor-dinerman?page=1 "Speaking of Sputnik, did you know that the Cold War was all the Democrats' fault?" Thanks for the insight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 "Speaking of Sputnik, did you know that the Cold War was all the Democrats' fault?"Thanks for the insight. And he conveniently left Reagan out, eventhough he's just as much a part of that conversation. And again all they focus on is the effect on Russia and how Sputnik wasn't as alarming as the public thought, neither of which addresses the point of the analogy, which is that America is seeing stiff foreign competition now and is lagging in certain areas and that we need to respond by investing in ways which will get us back on top. It's not an iron-clad analogy, but all that gets focused on from opposition is that it is simply a call for government spending and they use the effects on Russia as a counter argument without realizing that doing so is also a slam on America's policies during the Cold War, even under Nixon and Reagan, and eventhough the results for America kept it as the #1 superpower. Plus I have a hard time taking a writer seriously when they refer to math teachers as state propagandists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Yes and her defenders attack Obama and try to prove her point that it is bad analogy rather than aknowledging she may not be the best voice for Republicans Uh she was attacking Obama's ideas...if you defend what she says that is by default a attack on his idea Didn't know this thread was about selecting a candidate or spokesperson...I must really be a moron to have missed that ---------- Post added January-31st-2011 at 05:19 PM ---------- Sorry to jump in, but I don't think you're making a valid argument. Wolves are animals who live on instinct. People know better and can control themselves. You're basically giving a pass to people who took advantage by saying "it was there." It's called self-control and moral responsibility. If you consider yourself a Christian then you shouldn't be excusing corruption.And I think you should actually answer his questions before you ask your own. Free enterprise businesses are animals....don't believe me?...come play :evilg: I answered his question...the price hike was a direct result of Cali regulating it's own power generating capabilities into near extinction and exposing it's throat....kinda like what we are doing with domestic energy production in the US added I find it interesting how much people rely on the good nature of Christianity when it's convient. I didn't excuse corruption....I pointed at the cause Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Uh she was attacking Obama's ideas...if you defend what she says that is by default a attack on his ideaDidn't know this thread was about selecting a candidate or spokesperson...I must really be a moron to have missed that ---------- Post added January-31st-2011 at 05:19 PM ---------- Free enterprise businesses are animals....don't believe me?...come play :evilg: I answered his question...the price hike was a direct result of Cali regulating it's own power generating capabilities into near extinction and exposing it's throat....kinda like what we are doing with domestic energy production in the US It doesn't matter if they are free enterprise animals, that doesn't excuse purposefully taking advantage of others for their own benefit. You in essence are blaming the victim for making it easy when it's the attacker who is to blame, just because you think faulting them is faulting free enterprise, whih is wrong. You can have free enterprise, but you do need some regulation, but that is difficult when people like you excuse corruption and misdeed as "business as usual." Both the government and the private sector have proven time and again that if either one is left unchecked they will abuse the **** out of whatever they can get their hands on. If you went on vacation and left your front door wide open and left a sign outside that said "on vacation, back in two weeks," and then came back afterwards to find your house is completely empty, would you fault yourself for "dangling the meat" or would you fault the "wolves" who robbed you blind? Point being that just because an opportunity is there it doesn't validate the misdeed. You're ignoring this very basic fact just to protect an ideal of free enterprise. But a corrupted free enterprise is no longer truly free. Excusing corruption does not actually protect free enterprise, rather it hinders it and gives the gov't an excuse to intervene, as is happening now thanks to the corruption in mortage, banking, and Wall Street. If they hadn't been corrupt and bent Americans over, the gov't wouldn't have any grounds for stepping in (which both Bush and Obama have done). *and he asked: "What regulation forced power companies to go off line and cause price spikes? What regulation encourages specualtion on prices?" To which you replied with "There ya go blaming the wolf for being a wolf while dangling fresh meat." . You never actually answered either of his questions in your reply, and I've seen that be a recurring thing with you. -added- I find it interesting how people only apply the good nature of Christianity to themselves and their principles when its most convenient. And saying "how can you fault the wolf when they're danging meat in front of it?" absolutely is excusing the corruption. You essentially are blaming Cali for it even being possible, while you excuse the abusers as helpless wolves operating purely on instinct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Is a wolf helpless? The zookeeper needs to exercise caution less he get attacked and the wolf gets put down. or if you prefer every action has consequences The govt was careless in it's duty and obligations and Enron people went to jail for taking advantage of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 The problem with the wolf analogy is that the wolf is a noble animal that cares for and well sacrifice it for the pack. Enron was not a wolf. Wolves are socialist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Everyone in prison is a result of governmental failure. Man, this thread just keeps getting better and better. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Is a wolf helpless?The zookeeper needs to exercise caution less he get attacked and the wolf gets put down. or if you prefer every action has consequences The govt was careless in it's duty and obligations and Enron people went to jail for taking advantage of it. Clearly my point was those people aren't wolves, they have understandings of morality and self-control. I said so in 2 responses to you now. You just going to keep ignoring it? And I'm still waiting on you to explain how "There ya go blaming the wolf for being a wolf while dangling fresh meat." isn't excusing the abusers, since you claimed you didn't excuse them. It'd be nice if you addressed the points in my post instead of consistently replying with simplified responses which don't actually address the crux of my argument. And you do this with everyone who disagrees, it seems. It's pretty disengenuous and for someone who posts so much on here one would think you'd be wanting to actually discuss things at their merit instead of being disengenuous, ignoring/dismissing what others say without actually addressing it, and mainly posting over-simplified one liners that in some cases look like they are meant solely to incite reactions rather than encourage a discussion. -added- the reason I'm complaining about your posting tendencies is because we've had good discussions in the past when you treated it seriously and you are pretty knowledgeable, and with your level of frequency in posting it really would be nice if we could truly discuss things more often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Everyone in prison is a result of governmental failure.Man, this thread just keeps getting better and better. ~Bang That's modern conservatism for you. It's a sheer avoidance of personal responsibility in all its forms and character. Enron was caused by Government... not corporate greed. Problems in education are due to the Dept. of Ed's failures and not parental apathy or the student. All fault belongs to the government because the government is the enemy. It's funamentally twisted and a sad corruption of Conservatism used to be about which was self-reliance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 That's modern conservatism for you. It's a sheer avoidance of personal responsibility in all its forms and character. Enron was caused by Government... not corporate greed. Problems in education are due to the Dept. of Ed's failures and not parental apathy or the student. All fault belongs to the government because the government is the enemy. It's funamentally twisted and a sad corruption of Conservatism used to be about which was self-reliance. When you blindly support capitalism and blindly villainize socialism then these things are inevitable where any misdeeds from the private industry are typically forgiven while any attempts by the gov't to get the private sector back under control are shunned. Really there is a good balance that can, and should be IMO< met between capitalism and socialism. Either in their purest forms will be corrupted. People need to have some regulation, government needs to have some regulation, both are needed to keep the other in check (and it applies when you substitute people for capitalism and government for socialism). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Is a wolf helpless?The zookeeper needs to exercise caution less he get attacked and the wolf gets put down. or if you prefer every action has consequences The govt was careless in it's duty and obligations and Enron people went to jail for taking advantage of it. So, you're saying that the problem was not enough regulation? ---------- Post added January-31st-2011 at 07:28 PM ---------- It'd be nice if you addressed the points in my post instead of consistently replying with simplified responses which don't actually address the crux of my argument. We're in a Sarah Palin thread and you're surprised that there's a Sarah defender in here whose technique consists of "Ignore the person's point, and spout slogans"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.C.O.L.B. Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 You all know twa is messing with you right? There's no way he believes some of this stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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