Sarah Palin Can't Comprehend the "Sputnik Moment"

[ACW]

CA was NOT deregulation: http://www.thefreemanonline.org/columns/the-california-power-mess/

http://reason.org/news/show/122300.html

[Mooka]

CA was NOT deregulation: http://www.thefreemanonline.org/columns/the-california-power-mess/

"It is a crisis made in Sacramento by consenting adults whose appalling ignorance of the most basic principles of economics will get them all fired if there’s any justice in this world. Moreover, anybody who has the gall to call what they did “deregulation” is no better informed than the culprits themselves."

Snap. You going to let this guy talk to you like that Predicto?:pfft:

[Burgold]

Sarah Palin on Algebra being taught in Schools--

It's just like those sneaky liberals to hide what the real numbers are.

Sarah Palin on spelling bees--

I don't care what word you want me to spell. I'm going to spell the words the people want me to spell.

Sarah Palin on science.

You know the difference between a soccer mom and a scientist? (looks blankly at tv camera and starts stammering)

Sarah Palin on Literacy--

What books have I read this week? Umm... All of them. Is this one of them gotcha questions?

Sarah Palin on Amazon's Kindle.

Oh that's easy. That's what you do when you're out camping and you want to start a fire.

[twa]

Ya gotta admit that's a great line Mooka

[GibbsFactor]

She really is retarded (I said it, F U), a walking talking point.

Notice how she changed the interview about small business. Completely, utterly, clueless.

[Baculus]

Is a wolf helpless?

The zookeeper needs to exercise caution less he get attacked and the wolf gets put down.

or if you prefer every action has consequences

The govt was careless in it's duty and obligations and Enron people went to jail for taking advantage of it.

The situation Enron wasn't caused by the government "getting careless" and Enron merely taking advantage of it. The entire situation was caused by deregulation and Enron EXPLOITING the situation (after all, they pushed for that policy), as well as its executives, Ken Lay, for example, exploiting the friendship they had with people in government such as George W. Bush.

Just like Tea Party heroes the Koch brothers have taken advantage of deregulation and their buddies in government to advance their own corporate agenda.

http://ecopolitology.org/2011/01/28/the-billionaire-brothers-who-make-us-sick/

What's ironic are all the right-wingers, men such as Eric Cantor, talking about "malfeasance" in government, but they are in bed with one of the worst examples of corporate-government malfeasance, at a private retreat guarded by helicopters and sheriffs.

Have you given up on defending Palin yet, or did you dig in your heels and double-down?

---------- Post added February-1st-2011 at 09:39 PM ----------

Another tangent I like

Are lobbyist immoral for advocating for their clients benefit?

Being in business one of my early self conflicts was how much profit was morally acceptable to me and where does it change to being predatory.

I would expect a Corp to be less concerned with such by it's structure

You seemed to have hit it on the head: it becomes immoral when it is predatory and harms the individual and public good. Capitalism was never intended, even under Adam Smith, to be a total free for fall with no regard for anything outside of its economic sphere.

[twa]

You seemed to have hit it on the head: it becomes immoral when it is predatory and harms the individual and public good. Capitalism was never intended, even under Adam Smith, to be a total free for fall with no regard for anything outside of its economic sphere.

Which is why we regulate in the case of power.....what I want to know is why people ignore deregulation IS STILL regulation?

Their actions were SUPPOSED to be controlled by the state officials even after 'deregulation', the Cali market was not a free for all beyond their control.

As for Palin:)...I will defend what benefits me or I agree with,and I agree with her O's Winning The Future vision is faulty.

As strange as she is at times ,she would not be as foolish as to expose her throat to Enron... like some geniuses.:evilg:

[Predicto]

Larry if the security guard held the door open and opened the vault would you say he is complicit or simply incompetent?

Ain't this fun?

Not really. I find it annoying.

---------- Post added February-1st-2011 at 05:09 PM ----------

Their actions were SUPPOSED to be controlled by the state officials even after 'deregulation', the Cali market was not a free for all beyond their control.

That is not true, and I'm getting tired of responding to your empty one-liners.

The system absolutely was a free for all, and was beyond the control of state regulators until the Legislature finally shut it down. Any California price regulation of out of state energy providers is preempted by the exclusive jurisdiction of the FERC, and George Bush's FERC was manned by guys from Enron. They absolutely refused to intervene.

The California Public Utilities Commission had to appeal to federal Circuit Courts over and over just to get the right to do some basic discovery over how these energy providers were manipulated the market - the FERC blocked their inquiries over and over.

Seriously, stop talking about stuff you know nothing about.

[twa]

The system absolutely was a free for all, and was beyond the control of state regulators until the Legislature finally shut it down. Any California price regulation of out of state energy providers is preempted by the exclusive jurisdiction of the FERC, and George Bush's FERC was manned by guys from Enron. They absolutely refused to intervene.

Now why would they need out of state providers?...coulda swore I heard they had plenty of generating capacity somewhere

oh yeah the ones in-state weren't regulated(by the state) very well,allowing shutdowns of far too many systems at once

imagine that

[Predicto]

Now why would they need out of state providers?...coulda swore I heard they had plenty of generating capacity somewhere

oh yeah the ones in-state weren't regulated(by the state) very well,allowing shutdowns of far too many systems at once

imagine that

Seriously, shut up. You are clueless. The state had approximately 60,000 megawatts of capacity during the height of the crisis, and the highest demand ever spiked was about 45,000 megawats during the height of a summer heat wave. There was plenty of energy.

Out of state providers OWNED the instate power plants. They bought them in an auction when the system was deregulated. And the state could not tell them to keep their plants running, so they shut them down as often as possible to create price spikes. And the only possible recourse was with the FERC, which was run by Bush oil men who refused to investigate, much less intervene.

So, if your point is that it's the state's fault that it didn't protect itself better from rapacious energy companies by not enacting this insane system in the first place, then you are right. If you are trying to make any other point, you are failing miserably. Just stop trolling.

---------- Post added February-1st-2011 at 05:35 PM ----------

CA was NOT deregulation: http://www.thefreemanonline.org/columns/the-california-power-mess/

http://reason.org/news/show/122300.html

Of course it wasn't pure deregulation. It was bad deregulation.

Besides, I'm not sure how pure deregulation would even be possible in the context of the provision of electricity.

[Baculus]

Which is why we regulate in the case of power.....what I want to know is why people ignore deregulation IS STILL regulation?

Their actions were SUPPOSED to be controlled by the state officials even after 'deregulation', the Cali market was not a free for all beyond their control.

Perhaps this is where we can agree that government-corporate relationships can sometimes be a negative.

How did Enron happen? Through exploitation of the energy deregulation that they supported. As a Wiki article describes:

"In 1990, Enron CEO Jeffrey Skilling, a Harvard M.B.A., hired Andrew Fastow who was well acquainted with the burgeoning deregulated energy market Skilling wanted to exploit. In 1993, Fastow set to work establishing numerous limited liability special purpose entitites (common business practice); however, it also allowed Enron to place liability so that it would not appear in its accounts, allowing it to maintain a robust and generally growing stock price and thus keeping its critical investment grade credit ratings."

"As was later discovered, many of Enron's recorded assets and profits were inflated or even wholly fraudulent and nonexistent. Debts and losses were put into entities formed "offshore" that were not included in the firm's financial statements, and other sophisticated and arcane financial transactions between Enron and related companies were used to take unprofitable entities off the company's

books."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enron

Many of us are critical of Big Business because of corporations such as Enron, but they aren't alone, by far, and other corporations that Republicans (and Democrats as well) support are also questionable in their company practices. But it is especially relevant when you Koch Industries, known for a series of regulatory violations going back year, is taking a major role in supporting the Tea Party, the Republicans, even going as far as their recent conservative gathering (while surrounded by guards) to plan the future elections. Basically, Koch Industries is like Enron without getting busted, and they are now playing a major role in government.

You can bet that the Republican efforts to further deregulate are going to benefit Koch Industries, the second largest company in the United States.

As for Palin:)...I will defend what benefits me or I agree with,and I agree with her O's Winning The Future vision is faulty.

O.K., fair enough.

As strange as she is at times ,she would not be as foolish as to expose her throat to Enron... like some geniuses.:evilg:

I think she would, because she would see Enron as good old fashioned capitalism, and the sort of energy company this country needs. Just like she doesn't have a problem with Haliburton or Koch Industries. She is all about Big Business. There are few Republicans who are distrustful of out-of-control corporations.

Here is what Thomas Jefferson would say about Enron and Koch Industries, run by the Koch brothers (who ironically considered themselves to be "Jeffersonian"):

"I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country."

[twa]

O.K., fair enough.

I think she would, because she would see Enron as good old fashioned capitalism, and the sort of energy company this country needs. Just like she doesn't have a problem with Haliburton or Koch Industries. She is all about Big Business. There are few Republicans who are distrustful of out-of-control corporations.

"

Funny that her record of dealing with energy companies and providers show just how hardnosed she can be....inconvenient to your story ain't it?

Predicto that was exactly my point

"that it's the state's fault that it didn't protect itself better from rapacious energy companies by not enacting this insane system in the first place"

this tangent started on making wise choices(not that I mind gigging Cali+Davis,but that is just a bonus)

You best be wary of politicians Sputnick moments and demand clear reason and justifications

[Baculus]

Funny that her record of dealing with energy companies and providers show just how hardnosed she can be....inconvenient to your story ain't it?

Palin can't be "hard-nosed" if she wants to enable energy companies, if she wants to deregulate them, and if she views any federal oversight as being "socialism." All of that flies in defiance of your sentiments. She was only "hard nosed" when it mattered in Alaskan politics a few years ago (and she became someone through which business could broker deals). At one time she may have had hints of actually caring about this issue, but once money got involved, it all changed.

When was the last time you heard her criticize Big Business? When was the last time she championed the working class? When was the last time you heard any inkling from her that she believes illicit and poor business practices need to be curtailed, especially through regulation? THAT is inconvenient to your story and those of her supporters who acts like she is some populist figure. She ain't Teddy Roosevelt, that's for sure.

Heck, she gives speeches at big corporate events, who merely see her as a way to gain access to her audience (and any potential political future she may have). Republicans like her see these large business entities as representing true American capitalism, for all their talk about "Spudnuts" and Main Street.

Palin's populism is like the McDonald's version of it: wrapped in plastic, and made of fillers.

[Larry]

Yes,and relatively speaking she has a lot of company

I'll thank you to leave my relatives out of this.

---------- Post added February-1st-2011 at 08:31 PM ----------

Larry if the security guard held the door open and opened the vault would you say he is complicit or simply incompetent?

Even then, I still wouldn't claim that the bank robber is blameless, and that bank robbery should be legalized.

And you haven't even attempted to demonstrate that analogy.

[twa]

I'll thank you to leave my relatives out of this.

---------- Post added February-1st-2011 at 08:31 PM ----------

Even then, I still wouldn't claim that the bank robber is blameless, and that bank robbery should be legalized.

And you haven't even attempted to demonstrate that analogy.

I'm sure your relatives are the exception.

Never claimed the robber is blameless,( but at the risk of sending P postal;),) Davis instituting poor deregulation both opened the door and the vault.

He did have good intentions though

As my grampa always said..."locks are to keep honest people honest,with the dishonest you need different hardware to secure your things"

[Mooka]

Ya gotta admit that's a great line Mooka

I was laughing.

Don't think everyone else is though... maybe because I wasn't in northern CA during the blackouts.

[NavyDave]

I think she would, because she would see Enron as good old fashioned capitalism, and the sort of energy company this country needs.

Highly unlikely since she would be receiving a pap smear on the regular from the leftwing media hoping for a an impeachable gotcha moment.

Now Obama with GE and Goldman Sachs on the other hand................

---------- Post added February-2nd-2011 at 06:50 AM ----------

What excuse will the alleged super smart on the left use when gas prices can potentially double in price at the fuel pump while still supporting restrictions to drilling domestically? ANWAR would be near completion right now.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Highly unlikely since she would be receiving a pap smear on the regular from the leftwing media hoping for a an impeachable gotcha moment.

Now Obama with GE and Goldman Sachs on the other hand................What excuse will the alleged super smart on the left use when gas prices can potentially double in price at the fuel pump while still supporting restrictions to drilling domestically? ANWAR would be near completion right now.

Navy Dave to Queen Sarah's rescue. Instead of addressing the issue a deflection and redirection. Classic.

[mcsluggo]

it is fascinating how this thread detoured from a discussion of Sarah Palin to a discussion of the california energy market.. and THERE it managed to perfectly represent the original topic at hand (the vacuous of nature of sarah palin)

on the one hand you have people informed about the ACTUAL situation that ACTUALLY occurred in California, and discussing, you know.. the actual chain of events that occurred... and on the other you hand you have people piping in with vacant one-liner pep-slogans interspersed with a bunch of laghing smiley faces.

if you made a claymation movie of this thread's discussion you would PERFECTLY encapuslate the essense of the nature of Sarah Palin "debate". Brilliant.

---------- Post added February-2nd-2011 at 05:52 PM ----------

(personally i have just been picturing a parent talking to a little kid who is alternating like clockwork between 1) saying "why" to every definative statement 2) holding his breath, and 3) saying "I know you are but what am I" and then cycling back through again)