Respect for Gibbs accomplishment just now on ESPN

[respectgibbs]

Finally, respect for Gibbs. About time. Never forget WE OWE EVERYTHING to Gibbs.

[NewCliche21]

Yes I caught that also on ESPN. I'm justing hoping that Gibbs and Snyder still talk about the state of the Franchise from time to time. I don't remember what game it was but I saw Joe sitting in the luxury suites during a game at Fed_EX.

I'm not sold on the Farther Son combo just yet. I mean, would farther actually fire the son if need so..Just saying

He was there more than once. I got seats in 201, which is right by the box, and Gibbs was right next to him.

[Riggo-toni]

Those coaches have won 800 games combined, and the QBs of those teams have won 6 Super Bowls.

Um, other QBs on those teams won SBs. Danny White never played in a SB, Woodley only played in that loss, and subsequently went downhill. Can't remember who the Vikes QB was, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't Tarkenton (who never won one, but played in 3).

[Rufus T Firefly]

Um, other QBs on those teams won SBs. Danny White never played in a SB, Woodley only played in that loss, and subsequently went downhill. Can't remember who the Vikes QB was, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't Tarkenton (who never won one, but played in 3).

I almost posted basically the same thing. But then I realized he meant that the coaches Gibbs beat won 800 games, the QBs the Jets will have beaten (if they win tomorrow) have won 6 Super Bowls. It was poorly worded.

Tommy Kramer, btw.

[pjfootballer]

Um, other QBs on those teams won SBs. Danny White never played in a SB, Woodley only played in that loss, and subsequently went downhill. Can't remember who the Vikes QB was, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't Tarkenton (who never won one, but played in 3).

I almost posted basically the same thing. But then I realized he meant that the coaches Gibbs beat won 800 games, the QBs the Jets will have beaten (if they win tomorrow) have won 6 Super Bowls. It was poorly worded.

Tommy Kramer, btw.

I was wondering if someone in the thread would notice that we didn't beat QBs that won 6 SBs.

Hipple never played or won one. Kramer never played or won one. White never played QB in one, but may have punted in SB 12 vs. Denver. Woodley played in the one against us. So combined, only the QB we faced in the SB was in one.

Shula and Landry won 2 each. Clark and Grant won zero.

[Doctor ToughLove]

Gregg Williams got this team to the playoffs, not Gibbs.

:pooh: Au contraire my friend. The Redskins gave GreggW FOUR defensive backs who were taken in the top ten and that has never been done in the history of the NFL. That's not coaching, that's talent. I would have liked to seen GreggW coach-up players more. Like Ryan Clark who went on to start on Superbowl Champion Pittsburgh Steelers. Like Walt Harris who went on to probowl. Like Antonio Pierce who, went on to probowl and be the defensive captiain of the Superbowl Champion New York Giants. Not to mention other players he did not get the most out of.

I would say Gibbs as Redskins President, carried GreggW's defense. He got GreggW the highest drafted safety and cornerback of the decade (Sean Taylor & Shawn Springs). When GreggW couldn't make mere starters out of future probowlers & superbowl champions Ryan Clark & Walt Harris, playing side-by-side with highest drafted safety & corner of the decade, he got GreggW two more top ten DBs. That is an exuberant amount of talent to infuse into a secondary, the likes of which has never been seen or will ever be seen again. I mean, what the hell does it take to put a secondary on the field with GreggW??!! And what the hell passes for "coaching" now days. The acquistion of Taylor and Springs did far more for the defense than GreggW ever did.

It should also be noted GreggW produced the worst Redskins defense in the Superbowl era in 2006.

---------- Post added January-22nd-2011 at 07:15 PM ----------

Agreed, especially with a Snyderrato roster.

Yes, agreed. I think the influence of Bobby Beathard is sometimes swept under the carpet because he left here. In those days I rarely kept followed the draft because Beathard never took anyone who made any sense AND he was rarely wrong. So there was never any point in second guessing him which goes on a lot now.

[Darth Tater]

Yes, agreed. I think the influence of Bobby Beathard is sometimes swept under the carpet because he left here. In those days I rarely kept followed the draft because Beathard never took anyone who made any sense AND he was rarely wrong. So there was never any point in second guessing him which goes on a lot now.

Beathard was WRONG more often than he was right. He missed on over 60% of his picks.

[pjfootballer]

Beathard was WRONG more often than he was right. He missed on over 60% of his picks.

Better than the 90% Vinny missed.

All kidding aside, you can't compare the 2 eras. BB did a good a good job of finding gems in the later rounds (Daryl Grant, Dexter Manley) and he had no free agency to work with (except Plan B free agency which was really other teams scrubs). He was able to find good Plan B guys to round out the roster and play special teams, which was a strength of Gibbs teams. He also usually got the better end of trades (Dave Butz from the Cardinals- Ernest Byner from the Browns) then Vinny did.

Back then, you had to build through the draft, hope you won a trade and hope someone released a good player in preseason to find players. It was limited.

[Doctor ToughLove]

Hey guys,

Just thought I'd let you know that Berman on ESPN just gave a quick sidebar about Gibbs when talking about the Jets potential to leave a mark with wins over a string of great QBs if they beat Roethlisberger following beating Manning and Brady.

He basically said the league probably hasn't seen anything like that since (only slightly paraphrased): 1982 when Joe Gibbs in his second year took the Redskins over Bud Grant's Vikings, Tom Landry's Cowboys in the NFC Championship at RFK (it's cool to hear it said like that), and Don Shula's Dolphins in Super Bowl 17. Those coaches have won 800 games combined, and the QBs of those teams have won 6 Super Bowls.

Anyway, I think since a lot of us focus so much on what we perceive as the media ignoring the Redskins proud history, this was worth a quick mention. It's cool to hear - my wife was making fun of me just now - telling me I sound like I was just given a shout out personally on TV. Haha.

Yes I saw Berman's piece too. It was a well made point by Berman. What gets lost in history is not only were these Hall of Fame coaches & Superbowl Coaches (Don Shula, Tom Landry, Bud Grant) but they had been building & fine tuning their teams for over a decade each. Gibbs the newcomer not only beat them, but did so in his second year!? With a sub .500 team. In an era without free agency!?

I would also throw in that, ex-Dallas coach Jimmy Johnson seems to get a lot more miliage out of bringing the cowboys to the Superbowl within THREE seasons. Which undoubtedly was impressive. BUT Gibbs did it in TWO season, and without a stockpile of draft picks (including two #1 over all picks).

---------- Post added January-22nd-2011 at 08:18 PM ----------

Beathard was WRONG more often than he was right. He missed on over 60% of his picks.

As are most GMs. Include their percentages if you *want* to be more complete. I would love to see Charlie Casserly's for example, he wiffed on 7 first round picks, including three top ten picks.

---------- Post added January-22nd-2011 at 08:33 PM ----------

Better than the 90% Vinny missed.

All kidding aside, you can't compare the 2 eras. BB did a good a good job of finding gems in the later rounds (Daryl Grant, Dexter Manley) and he had no free agency to work with (except Plan B free agency which was really other teams scrubs). He was able to find good Plan B guys to round out the roster and play special teams, which was a strength of Gibbs teams. He also usually got the better end of trades (Dave Butz from the Cardinals- Ernest Byner from the Browns) then Vinny did.

Back then, you had to build through the draft, hope you won a trade and hope someone released a good player in preseason to find players. It was limited.

Yikes! My brain shutters at the thought of a Vinny/Beathard comparison.

I would also note, that when Beathard left & joined the San Diego Chargers. He put that team in its only Superbowl appearance in a very short window of time.

[Hail26]

I still dont think people realize what a remarkable job Gibbs 2 did on the field yet. 2 playoffs in 4 years is ****in remarkable

I agree....when you think about all the BS we had to deal with, and still make the playoffs....just awsome

HAIL JOE

[TomE]

Gregg Williams got this team to the playoffs, not Gibbs.

Oh, OK, now that that is squared away we can close the thread.

[Gart Monk]

Gibbs 1 was ahead of his time

*3 Super Bowls

*3 different offensive backfields

* Using hand signals

"I want tough, smart players" -joe gibbs

[Riggo-toni]

Beathard was WRONG more often than he was right. He missed on over 60% of his picks.

Beathard traded down for more picks, and gambled on players who were from small schools or had been injured their senior year, so yeah, he missed more often then hit...just like EVERYONE who's run as many drafts. The difference was, Beathard found LOTS of great players (Manley, Didier, Mann, Grimm, etc. in the late rounds. Where he never missed was on the rare occassions he made a first round pick. The closest to being a disappointment was May, who was drafted to play LT, but got shifted inside from tackle to guard. The other 2 1st rounders both are in the HOF (Monk, Green).

Beathard worked for 4 teams, and ALL FOUR went to the Superbowl (KC, Miami,WAS, and SD). Only SD didn't win.

Gibbs was a great coach, but he was a terrible talent evaluator, and constantly overrated players from winning teams (Campbell, Desmond Howard,Patten), and grossly overpaid for positions of perceived need (Riggs, TJ Duckett).

[SkinsNumberOne]

I almost posted basically the same thing. But then I realized he meant that the coaches Gibbs beat won 800 games, the QBs the Jets will have beaten (if they win tomorrow) have won 6 Super Bowls. It was poorly worded.

Tommy Kramer, btw.

Ahhh, that makes a lot more sense now. I am pretty sure that I got it down close to how it was worded by Berman, so I apologize for any confusion by the wording. I'll try to add a caveat to the opening post without changing the wording since it's close to a quote as far as I can recall (unless anyone remembers otherwise).

[redskins55]

I just want you to take a look at this video. It tells the story of just how great of a coach Joe Gibbs really was!

Anytime you can take your team full of scab no name players into Dallas vs their starters and win its a testament to the coach!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0ZVIgJSgoM

[SkinsFTW]

Gibbs was a great coach, but he was a terrible talent evaluator, and constantly overrated players from winning teams (Campbell, Desmond Howard,Patten), and grossly overpaid for positions of perceived need (Riggs, TJ Duckett).

Yeah, didn't Gibbs trade 2 first rounders for Riggs and that was when Beathard left? Riggs was a great player before he got injured but there is no way he was worth 2 firsts. Everybody talks about how bad the Hershel Walker trade was but that was pretty damn close to being as bad considering what Riggs did as a Redskin. He was a goal line back because he'd lost a step already.

---------- Post added January-24th-2011 at 02:20 PM ----------

I just want you to take a look at this video. It tells the story of just how great of a coach Joe Gibbs really was!

Anytime you can take your team full of scab no name players into Dallas vs their starters and win its a testament to the coach!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0ZVIgJSgoM

I never watched this back then because I thought the scabs would suck. Unbelievable how the Skins with the only 100% scab team in the NFL won all their games against real nfl players.

[Hollywood1127]

I have to say, I really miss Joe Gibbs. He wasn't done with the team, when he left in 2007. If Shannahan doesn't work out, I would like to see Joe Gibbs become the coach again.

[Conn]

I have to say, I really miss Joe Gibbs. He wasn't done with the team, when he left in 2007. If Shannahan doesn't work out, I would like to see Joe Gibbs become the coach again.

No. No. NO.

[Doctor ToughLove]

Beathard traded down for more picks, and gambled on players who were from small schools or had been injured their senior year, so yeah, he missed more often then hit...just like EVERYONE who's run as many drafts. The difference was, Beathard found LOTS of great players (Manley, Didier, Mann, Grimm, etc. in the late rounds. Where he never missed was on the rare occassions he made a first round pick. The closest to being a disappointment was May, who was drafted to play LT, but got shifted inside from tackle to guard. The other 2 1st rounders both are in the HOF (Monk, Green).

Beathard worked for 4 teams, and ALL FOUR went to the Superbowl (KC, Miami,WAS, and SD). Only SD didn't win.

Gibbs was a great coach, but he was a terrible talent evaluator, and constantly overrated players from winning teams (Campbell, Desmond Howard,Patten), and grossly overpaid for positions of perceived need (Riggs, TJ Duckett).

Yes, very well put. Beathard was ahead of his time in that he gleaned the small school prospects very well. I would also say this lessened his effectiveness in the 90s when the rest of the NFL caught up with him and everybody had mass scouting departments and every one was gleaning the small school prospects as well.

I would also agree with you 200% that the number one thing that held back Joe Gibbs part 2 as coach, was Joe Gibbs the General Manager. I wish he had done like Shanahan did and gotten himself a GM. That earned from me a lot of respect, because obviously Shanahn had enough clout to demand the GM job himself if he wanted. And it is exactly what Gibbs2 should have done. I still maintain that Gibbs2 did a great job coaching and hadn't lost the proverbial step is commonly perceived, I think it was his GMing miscues that held him back.