Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Wow. That's pretty ignorant. Jurgensen had excellent placement, he didn't rely on his WRs to "go get it," he put the ball where they were going to be. Out of curiosity, how would you know? I don't think I've ever seen more than two minutes of Sonny highlights, and you are nine years younger than I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Out of curiosity' date=' how would you know?I don't think I've ever seen more than two minutes of Sonny highlights, and you are nine years younger than I am.[/quote'] That's what I'm wondering in this thread...I hate Big Ben, honestly, but he's at quite a disadvantage as we all get to see every single one of his plays. I think I've seen the same 14 Sonny highlights for the past 20 years. How do we know how accurate he was? I've posted the stats and it shows that Ben is more accurate than Sonny was and has a better TD/INT ratio than Sonny did. It seems like the second any Redskin doesn't win some debate on the national stage, it becomes a travesty on this board. Sometimes, other teams' players will be better than ours! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Seriously, who cares what a jerk-off, which King is, in the Nationals thinks about us? Sonny is, was, and always will be a Redskin great. He's in the Hall, the highest individual honer they can bestow on him. I couldn't give a flying **** if King or any other chump from around the Country thinks Kevin Kolb's a better QB then Sonny. WE know just how good Sonny was, and what he means to US. And Sonny knows it too. That's all that matters. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFKFedEx Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 The cry baby threads have been full throttle around here since the playoffs began. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Out of curiosity' date=' how would you know?I don't think I've ever seen more than two minutes of Sonny highlights, and you are nine years younger than I am.[/quote'] I lived through Sonny's years with the Redskins and saw him play live (well, live on TV)...and the only thing I remember from back then about any of the Skins' QBs were Billy Kilmer's wounded duck passes ...that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Ridiculous. The greatest coach of all-time called him the best quarterback he's ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Ridiculous.The greatest coach of all-time called him the best quarterback he's ever seen. Total aside, but I often wonder how Bart Starr felt about that given all the success he had with Lombardi and how close he was to him. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.C.O.L.B. Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Dan Marino or Joe Montana? (Just watched Top 10 QB's from the 80's on NFLN. This thread reminds me of that.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I lived through Sonny's years with the Redskins and saw him play live (well, live on TV)...and the only thing I remember from back then about any of the Skins' QBs were Billy Kilmer's wounded duck passes ...that's it. So there's truth in the rumour BK was Donovan's childhood idol then? Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskin faithful Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 He's a tool who will say anything to get the fans of good teams to like him. I agree. The man is a joke. His opinion = garbage. Too bad he's a part of the HOF voting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 So there's truth in the rumour BK was Donovan's childhood idol then? Hail. None of Kilmer's water balloon passes landed at the WRs' feet, though ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinSkins Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 So is Sonny better than Manning or Brady? Some put Big Ben right behind those two. It's all objective. If the QB is supposed to win, Big Ben trumps Sonny everyday and twice on Sundays. :bsflag::bsflag::bsflag::bsflag::bsflag::bsflag::bsflag::bsflag::bsflag::bsflag: ---------- Post added January-18th-2011 at 02:58 PM ---------- Ben is an average QB and has been fortunate to play for amazing teams in his short career.Sonny is the better QB hands down. Word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rook Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I lived through Sonny's years with the Redskins and saw him play live (well, live on TV)...and the only thing I remember from back then about any of the Skins' QBs were Billy Kilmer's wounded duck passes ...that's it. That is kind of a shame. I remember when they traded Norm for Sonny. I remember the passes finally getting to Bobby Mitchell, the strikes to Charley Taylor and the precise passes to Jerry Smith. However, to compare Ben and Sonny just does not make sense. Different eras etc. Sonny called his own plays and had a weak OL and Defense. Ben is stronger against the hit but doesn't have the full range of passes that Sonny did, but he is getting better. :helmet: The Rook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 So is Sonny better than Manning or Brady? Some put Big Ben right behind those two. It's all objective. If the QB is supposed to win, Big Ben trumps Sonny everyday and twice on Sundays. I'm assuming you are referring to Peyton Manning. Then I would say you could compare Manning to Sonny because both of them are/were QBs that could take good to average teams & carry them on their backs. You can't say that about either Brady or Big Ben. I know I might be thinking like a homer but I would say that Sonny is a better QB than either of the 3 you mentioned. Sonny could probably play in this era of over protection of the QBs & WRs & put up hugh numbers. I believe if the 3 modern day QBs played in Sonny's era that Big Ben & Manning would both be better than Brady & that Brady would just be average & that none of them would be as good as Sonny. The sports media seems to forget that football is a team sport more than anyother sport in the world. Look at this way take either Brady, Manning, or Big Ben & put them on the Redskins of the last 10 yrs & then think if anyone would consider any of them great QBs. Also don't forget that Peter King is a closet Redskins hater & was one of the reasons that a sure first ballot HOFer like Art Monk had to wait years to be inducted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsCrushCowboys Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I lived through Sonny's years with the Redskins and saw him play live (well, live on TV)...and the only thing I remember from back then about any of the Skins' QBs were Billy Kilmer's wounded duck passes ...that's it. I remember that and also distinctly remember Larry Browns helmet getting knocked off about once a game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouvan59 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 "Sonny put the ball up and asked his receivers to go get it. But he also threw alot of INTs, yet he's in the Hall of Fame"- Peter KingIs Big Ben the better passer? That's absolute BS. Sonny's intereception percentage is actually very good for the era he played in. Over time his numbers don't look all that great compared to the numbers being put up now but for his era he was friggin great. Look up Vince Lombardi's opinion of Sonny and then compare it to know-nothing Peter King. Ask Mr. King how Big Ben would do with a team that finished either last or second to last in rushing each of his first 6 seasons. Ask Mr. King how Big Ben would do with a team that had a terrible defense? Then ask yourself if Big Ben is a no brainer HOFer right now? When Sonny retired it was an absolute no brainer that he was going into the HOF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackdaddydean Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 In terms of winning Big Ben is better. In terms of a pure passer, Sonny is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSHRedskins3ATLBraves3 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Really? Which games of his were your favorites? Listen, I know he's very good and put up great numbers. I also know that we've all seen all the same highlights. But it's pretty tough to compare highlight reels from the 1960s to watching all the good AND bad plays of another QB. We're comparing the ups and downs of one guy to the legacy and bright spots of another guy. Sonny completed about 57% of his passes with about 250 TDs and about 180 INTs with a passer rating of about 83. Big Ben has about a 62% completion percentage with 140 TDs and 90 INTs and a 92 passer rating. As far as individual games for Sonny, I have no idea. I'm going off of his legacy as a Pro Football Hall of Famer, stories from former players and stats. I do seem to remember Ben's first Super Bowl appearance where "Roethlisberger had one of the worst passing games of his career, completing just nine of 21 passes for 123 yards and two interceptions; his passer rating of 22.6 was the lowest in Super Bowl history by a winning quarterback." Yes that's right, worse than Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson and Jim McMahon. He continually sits in the pocket forever and fails to complete passes consistently without allowing the pocket to break down creating all of the sacks that he takes. His success has always been a due to the phenomenal teams he has played on. Throwing to receivers like Hines Ward, Plaxico Burress and Santonio Holmes doesn't hurt either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouvan59 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 He continually sits in the pocket forever and fails to complete passes consistently without allowing the pocket to break down creating all of the sacks that he takes. His success has always been a due to the phenomenal teams he has played on. Throwing to receivers like Hines Ward, Plaxico Burress and Santonio Holmes doesn't hurt either. I think you are selling him a little short. I agree that a lot of his success is because of the team he is on but he's still a very good NFL QB. He probably does hold onto the ball too long but he also is very good at creating plays because he's so big and hard to bring down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyal2Washington Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Hey remember when some would argue on here that Jason Campbell is a better QB then Ben. Does that mean Jason is better then Sonny? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 As far as individual games for Sonny, I have no idea. I'm going off of his legacy as a Pro Football Hall of Famer, stories from former players and stats.I do seem to remember Ben's first Super Bowl appearance where "Roethlisberger had one of the worst passing games of his career, completing just nine of 21 passes for 123 yards and two interceptions; his passer rating of 22.6 was the lowest in Super Bowl history by a winning quarterback." Yes that's right, worse than Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson and Jim McMahon. He continually sits in the pocket forever and fails to complete passes consistently without allowing the pocket to break down creating all of the sacks that he takes. His success has always been a due to the phenomenal teams he has played on. Throwing to receivers like Hines Ward, Plaxico Burress and Santonio Holmes doesn't hurt either. I don't want to derail this thread...but you proved my point. We get anecdotal evidence from players who watched him play 40 years ago and a handful of clips when it comes to Sonny. If we were to look at Big Ben 40 years from now, we wouldn't remember every bad play he made, just the good ones that were highlight or anecdote worthy. Sonny threw to some amazing WRs too. Anyway, all I'm saying is that we're seeing all of Big Ben's warts since we're all actively watching every play of his (both good and bad) while very rarely will anyone have any reason to dig up negative plays that Sonny probably made. In the end, statistically, I'd have to say that they seem pretty similar. Don't get me wrong, I love having Sonny as a Redskin great, but too many people jump the gun to bash these types of comments as if they have no merit at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSHRedskins3ATLBraves3 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I don't want to derail this thread...but you proved my point. We get anecdotal evidence from players who watched him play 40 years ago and a handful of clips when it comes to Sonny. If we were to look at Big Ben 40 years from now, we wouldn't remember every bad play he made, just the good ones that were highlight or anecdote worthy. Sonny threw to some amazing WRs too. Anyway, all I'm saying is that we're seeing all of Big Ben's warts since we're all actively watching every play of his (both good and bad) while very rarely will anyone have any reason to dig up negative plays that Sonny probably made. In the end, statistically, I'd have to say that they seem pretty similar. Don't get me wrong, I love having Sonny as a Redskin great, but too many people jump the gun to bash these types of comments as if they have no merit at all. I understand what you're saying, but I don't think Roethlisberger is a HOF (despite "his" 2 SB rings). Therefore, Jurgensen > Roethlisberger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I understand what you're saying, but I don't think Roethlisberger is a HOF (despite "his" 2 SB rings). Therefore, Jurgensen > Roethlisberger He might not be, that's certainly true. I would assume that the standards are a little higher now though. Also, if the Steelers win a couple more rings before his time is up in Pittsburgh, it will be tough to keep him out of the HOF, whether right or wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsCrushCowboys Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, Andre Ware, Jim Drunkenmiller all better.....because once upon a time some sports writter wrote that they were going to be great...fact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyal2Washington Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I don't think Roethlisberger is a HOF (despite "his" 2 SB rings). Therefore, Jurgensen > Roethlisberger Yea because 2x SB winning QB's with very good career numbers and a killing winning percentage never get elected to the Hall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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