shk75 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I am reading a great book called "The Healing of America" by T.R. Reid and I came across this statement: "But many Americans intensely dislike the idea that we might learn useful policy ideas from other countries, particularly in medicine." I really think he hits the nail on the head and this sentiment has hurt our growth as a nation, what do you guys think, are we too held up on American exceptionalism do we have trouble admitting that other countries can do things better than us and we should learn from them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fullnelson9999 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I see it as Americans think that other countries can do things well, but we're fine on our own. I don't really see it as a "we're flat out better than everyone" thing. How many people will admit that foreign auto manufacturers are better than American ones, but will go out and buy a Dodge anyway? I think a lot. I think many older people would have problems accepting that other countries can out perform us, but the younger crowd, with how interconnected the world is today, will not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 nelson is on to something. Up until the Vietnam generation, Americans grew up seeing that America could do everything better than the rest of the world. Probably hard to argue against that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I think there is truth to that sentiment. I also think it's misguided. We should lead, but also borrow, steal, and adapt everyone else's good ideas. Sometimes, others get there first. No reason not to learn from their successes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 ^^^ Which has happened in the Auto industry over the past 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Although it took a heck of a long time for American automakers to begin swallowing their pride and changing their ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimmySmith Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 The quote reminded of the film, "And the Band Played On". An interesting film about the discovery of the AIDS virus. The discovery was put back years because the Drs (all over the world) who were vying for the title of Discoverer did everything they could to discredit each other. Same goes for most sciences. It's not solely an "American" thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Although it took a heck of a long time for American automakers to begin swallowing their pride and changing their ways. GM was putting a ton of gadgets in cars (Cadillac) but not mainstreaming the technology and often times forgetting about safety and performance. Other times with Dodge/Chrysler for example, the original Viper was a dud and hurt the brand because it was only about speed... the safety isssues with the other products has forced them to make better cars. EDIT: But yes, it took forever. It took Nissan, Honda, and Toyota to start dominating the market for them to step up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I see it as Americans think that other countries can do things well, but we're fine on our own. I don't really see it as a "we're flat out better than everyone" thing. After the way our country acted to "Freedom Fries" etc, and after reading the "American Exceptionalism" thread that was on here awhile back, I see it as just that, "we're flat out better than everyone else in every category that matters, and the rest of the world has nothing to teach us, in fact if they knew what was good for them they'd be following our example." You really hear it when people talk about how things are done in Europe and it's said with a disdain that's as if Europe were the seedy underbelly of the world. The attitude truly is "we're the best and everyone else is vying for 2nd place." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky21 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I read all over the Tailgate (and especially during the Bush Jr. years) that we don't care what other countries think of the U.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I read all over the Tailgate (and especially during the Bush Jr. years) that we don't care what other countries think of the U.S. Exactly right, this attitude that America is the best is all too well documented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MassSkinsFan Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Because European healthcare is mostly socialized medicine, and because of the US dislike of anything remotely socialist or communist, I think we view those systems with a lot of disdain. In fact, I think they're often dismissed outright because people assume that any left-wing European system is doomed to failure, based on the demise of the Soviet states. To put words in their mouths: "It may be working now, but it'll fall apart soon - mark my words - how did that Communism work out for the Russians huh?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shk75 Posted January 5, 2011 Author Share Posted January 5, 2011 Because European healthcare is mostly socialized medicine, and because of the US dislike of anything remotely socialist or communist, I think we view those systems with a lot of disdain. In fact, I think they're often dismissed outright because people assume that any left-wing European system is doomed to failure, based on the demise of the Soviet states. To put words in their mouths: "It may be working now, but it'll fall apart soon - mark my words - how did that Communism work out for the Russians huh?" But that is what so funny, European medicine is in fact not socialized medicine and the two biggest socialized medicine programs in the US (Medicare and VA system) get the strongest support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrong Direction Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 I think there is truth to that sentiment. I also think it's misguided. We should lead, but also borrow, steal, and adapt everyone else's good ideas. Sometimes, others get there first. No reason not to learn from their successes. As long as people making statements like this and the OP are open to ideas from people who have other ideas from within America in addition to those outside of the country, I can be agreeable. I think we have enough of a hard time learning from each other, much less the ability to learn from other nations. I wonder how many liberals on this board read Thomas Sowell, or how many conservatives read David Corn. Unfortunately, not enough of us, I'd wager. ---------- Post added January-4th-2011 at 08:59 PM ---------- But that is what so funny, European medicine is in fact not socialized medicine and the two biggest socialized medicine programs in the US (Medicare and VA system) get the strongest support. And one of them has a long term deficit forecast in the tens of trillions of dollars. It's always popular to get more than you pay for. I love two for one deals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fullnelson9999 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 After the way our country acted to "Freedom Fries" etc, and after reading the "American Exceptionalism" thread that was on here awhile back, I see it as just that, "we're flat out better than everyone else in every category that matters, and the rest of the world has nothing to teach us, in fact if they knew what was good for them they'd be following our example." You really hear it when people talk about how things are done in Europe and it's said with a disdain that's as if Europe were the seedy underbelly of the world. The attitude truly is "we're the best and everyone else is vying for 2nd place." That's true, but I think it's important to factor in current events at the time of the whole "freedom fries" thing. I really, really don't know anyone my age who is opposed to learning new ways to do things and expanding their knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 That's true, but I think it's important to factor in current events at the time of the whole "freedom fries" thing. You're right, but remember that it was the arrogance of American exceptionalism that caused us to scoff at those nations who refused to follow us into Iraq, it caused us to wholly ignore what we know now to be the very right objections of our world neighbors about the "evidence" that we were using as our rationale for going to war. I really, really don't know anyone my age who is opposed to learning new ways to do things and expanding their knowledge. I think someone said earlier that the younger generation is much more willing to learn from our wold neighbors, it is however a very strong sentiment that runs strong in the older generations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 I don't think that's unique to America when it comes to public policy. (I assume that's what the quote is referring to.) Most nations seem to be pretty good at stubbornly sticking to all sorts of policies which are widely recognized as either horribly outdated, the causes of too many unintended consequences, or just plain ineffective. See: France's retirement age (along with those of a number of other European countries), marijuana prohibition, enormous public pensions, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 absolute ****ing nonsense. No other culture in the history of human civilization has borrowed so much from so many. People really need to spend some time in foreign countries. Get a taste of what nationalism and xenophobia really is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostyj Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 I am reading a great book called "The Healing of America" by T.R. Reid and I came across this statement:"But many Americans intensely dislike the idea that we might learn useful policy ideas from other countries, particularly in medicine." I really think he hits the nail on the head and this sentiment has hurt our growth as a nation, what do you guys think, are we too held up on American exceptionalism do we have trouble admitting that other countries can do things better than us and we should learn from them? I agree to a point. While we do tend to think this way... that we are the best. But let's not forget we are the melting pot. Haven't we had the privilege of the best people of advanced countries at the front of our knowledge? Take the A bomb for one example. Just from general knowledge (I'm hoping), there were many people from many countries, even German scientist’s, that were part of implementation of it. Where do we draw the line at American?? (USA) Meaning, some think American is just the US. What is American now? So many cultures have input, and have always had. I know what American means, but it really is not as simple to label. Unless your talking about the 50/60's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweedr01 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 I agree to a point. While we do tend to think this way... that we are the best. But let's not forget we are the melting pot. Haven't we had the privilege of the best people of advanced countries at the front of our knowledge? Take the A bomb for one example. Just from general knowledge (I'm hoping), there were many people from many countries, even German scientist’s, that were part of implementation of it.Where do we draw the line at American?? (USA) Meaning, some think American is just the US. What is American now? So many cultures have input, and have always had. I know what American means, but it really is not as simple to label. Unless your talking about the 50/60's. Very good point, and I think that the older generation were more likely to have a "we are better than you" mentality and not adopt any other countries cultures. Nowadays there is such a mixture of different races and cultures in the US, much more than any other country I believe. This makes me wonder how other countries can think we are so arrogant while we have such a melting pot of people here. The US is more than just white folk, which include all races, religions, and cultures. In fact, I'm pretty sure we have a more diverse population than any other country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pick6 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Why are you reading a book written by Tara Reid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MassSkinsFan Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 But that is what so funny, European medicine is in fact not socialized medicine and the two biggest socialized medicine programs in the US (Medicare and VA system) get the strongest support. Huh. I thought that the universal healthcare provided in most European countries (Austria, Belgium, Bosnia, Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Georgia, Germany, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Monaco, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Ukraine and UK all have universal healthcare) was socialized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shk75 Posted January 5, 2011 Author Share Posted January 5, 2011 Huh. I thought that the universal healthcare provided in most European countries (Austria, Belgium, Bosnia, Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Georgia, Germany, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Monaco, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Ukraine and UK all have universal healthcare) was socialized. That is a very common misconception. While it is true that many of these countries mandate that you have health insurance, the US also mandates that you pay a percentage of your check to social security/medicare. In Europe this payment that we make is used to fund their health system instead and since their systems are much more effective they are able to cover all citizens with just this payment. It is why their health spending as a percentage of GDP is about half of ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 absolute ****ing nonsense. No other culture in the history of human civilization has borrowed so much from so many.People really need to spend some time in foreign countries. Get a taste of what nationalism and xenophobia really is. The people that borrowed so much from so many are dead and buried along with those that believed in "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free". At some point you have to stop living in the past and realize what you look like today. I have spent a lot of time in other countries and you're right there is a great deal of bad out there. That has absolutely nothing to do with the bad here at home but there is certainly a lot of bad. I'd add classism to your list as that is something that is almost nonexistent in the US (in terms of it being actually felt in day to day life) and absolutely intolerable in many other parts of the world. Many parts of Europe also have some serious racism issues too that pop up at soccer games and amongst political parties, though I suspect we'd have the same dialogue here if it weren't for PCism forcing everyone to lie all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Because European healthcare is mostly socialized medicine, and because of the US dislike of anything remotely socialist or communist, I think we view those systems with a lot of disdain. In fact, I think they're often dismissed outright because people assume that any left-wing European system is doomed to failure, based on the demise of the Soviet states. To put words in their mouths: "It may be working now, but it'll fall apart soon - mark my words - how did that Communism work out for the Russians huh?" Well said. I think you hit the nail on the head concerning healthcare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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