Drew_Fl Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Be careful what you wish for. I suggest some of you research the way Euro countries pay for education and healthcare. It's called taxes, and some countries take a huge percentage compared to the USA. Everyone comes in here saying we are elitist and such, but when you do a little research you realize nothing comes for free. Not to mention the VAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmonkforHOF Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 America never used to be that way, in fact your founding fathers were so fond of French Democracy, they traveled to France repeatedly to observe and consult on the French system of government. Ask an American what France can do for us today and you probably get some ignorant or sarcastic comment about white flags. I don't think that it is so much that Americans are not open to new ideas, is the ones who oppose them and use the standard "that's not the American way" defense, and then pull the argument away from the real issue and turn it into a patriotic contest, and once an issue starts to get discussed as a patriotic issue, forget it , it's over and dead and you will never be able to have an intelligent conversation about that topic again without the patriotic angle attached to it. If they cannot attach a patriotic angle to it, then a political angle is added, and since there are only 2 parties in the US, you end up either supporting something fully, or oppose it, which leaves little room left for intelligent debate and compromise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shk75 Posted January 5, 2011 Author Share Posted January 5, 2011 Be careful what you wish for. I suggest some of you research the way Euro countries pay for education and healthcare. It's called taxes, and some countries take a huge percentage compared to the USA. Everyone comes in here saying we are elitist and such, but when you do a little research you realize nothing comes for free.Not to mention the VAT While it is true that Europeans pay more taxes than Americans, in relations to the health system, it is so much for efficient and effective there that all in all they get better results for less money. When you add in the fact that he US is in a sever debt crisis and a health care crisis as well it would only make sense to try and borrow from these systems in order to emulate their success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweedr01 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 So if their healthcare is soooo good, how come their teeth are all messed up? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MassSkinsFan Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 That is a very common misconception. While it is true that many of these countries mandate that you have health insurance, the US also mandates that you pay a percentage of your check to social security/medicare. In Europe this payment that we make is used to fund their health system instead and since their systems are much more effective they are able to cover all citizens with just this payment. It is why their health spending as a percentage of GDP is about half of ours. I'm not sure I'm seeing your POV clearly. When I look up the definition of socialized medicine, it is publicly-funded healthcare. I'm saying that most modern countries have it, and the list I provided earlier all have socialized medicine (i.e. publicly-funded healthcare).My main point though it that it is a pejorative term that many in the US associate with Socialism, and thus it has a stigma attached to it.Are we thinking the same thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew_Fl Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 While it is true that Europeans pay more taxes than Americans, in relations to the health system, it is so much for efficient and effective there that all in all they get better results for less money. When you add in the fact that he US is in a sever debt crisis and a health care crisis as well it would only make sense to try and borrow from these systems in order to emulate their success. It's not only the healthcare, the post-high school education is also funded by taxes in some countries. This along with the social healthcare makes the taxes ridiculous. However the Europeans are used to it. They wouldn't know what to do with their money if they paid the same level of taxes we do. It's easy to say the healthcare system is great and efficient if you haven't used it, and you may think it's awesome that college is funded in some places, but how would it feel seeing up to 50% of your annual wages disappear? Like I said that doesn't even account for the VAT you pay on things you purchase... People are so quick to judge this country for not picking up on ideas, but you have to pay for them and we have enough trouble managing the finances we have now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MassSkinsFan Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 So if their healthcare is soooo good, how come their teeth are all messed up? lol Shane McGowan disagrees with your logic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweedr01 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Shane McGowan disagrees with your logic! *Picture that made me stop thinking about what my wife is cooking for dinner* That is frickin nasty, lol, isn't that dude irish? Does he get the same "healthcare" the rest of Europe gets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shk75 Posted January 5, 2011 Author Share Posted January 5, 2011 It's not only the healthcare, the post-high school education is also funded by taxes in some countries. This along with the social healthcare makes the taxes ridiculous. However the Europeans are used to it. They wouldn't know what to do with their money if they paid the same level of taxes we do. It's easy to say the healthcare system is great and efficient if you haven't used it, and you may think it's awesome that college is funded in some places, but how would it feel seeing up to 50% of your annual wages disappear? Like I said that doesn't even account for the VAT you pay on things you purchase... People are so quick to judge this country for not picking up on ideas, but you have to pay for them and we have enough trouble managing the finances we have now. But here is the key point that your argument is missing: Europeans pay less then we do for their health care and yet their care is better. When I say less I am talking all included VAT, income taxes, gasoline tax. They pay less then we do and the main reason is because their systems are so much more efficient that there is much less waste. I think that is something we should definitely try to emulate. We would not have to increase taxes so Americans would not pay more and since they would be paying less out of pocket for medical care they would actually save money. ---------- Post added January-5th-2011 at 02:55 PM ---------- I'm not sure I'm seeing your POV clearly. When I look up the definition of socialized medicine, it is publicly-funded healthcare. I'm saying that most modern countries have it, and the list I provided earlier all have socialized medicine (i.e. publicly-funded healthcare).My main point though it that it is a pejorative term that many in the US associate with Socialism, and thus it has a stigma attached to it.Are we thinking the same thing? OK if that is how you define it than yes you are correct and the US is in that list as well. However, many define socialized medical care as entirely owned by the state, i.e. Cuba, and no system in Europe possesses those qualities, the closest would be Britain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew_Fl Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 But here is the key point that your argument is missing: Europeans pay less then we do for their health care and yet their care is better. When I say less I am talking all included VAT, income taxes, gasoline tax. They pay less then we do and the main reason is because their systems are so much more efficient that there is much less waste. I think that is something we should definitely try to emulate. We would not have to increase taxes so Americans would not pay more and since they would be paying less out of pocket for medical care they would actually save money.---------- Post added January-5th-2011 at 02:55 PM ---------- OK if that is how you define it than yes you are correct and the US is in that list as well. However, many define socialized medical care as entirely owned by the state, i.e. Cuba, and no system in Europe possesses those qualities, the closest would be Britain. I'm not gonna tell you you're wrong b/c i don't have all the numbers to back it up and I don't live in Europe. I do disagree b/c they may pay less overall, but the individual cost you and I would feel out of our take home salaries would be more. If you're argument is they have better health care or better value for their care, I can't comment b/c I've never experienced it first hand. I do know that it's not cheap. I don't see how all those taxes come out to less than our system though. All I can say is personally the American system hasn't failed me yet. I'm not gonna tell people if it's better or worse than other nations', but I think it's one of those grass is greener situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shk75 Posted January 5, 2011 Author Share Posted January 5, 2011 I'm not gonna tell you you're wrong b/c i don't have all the numbers to back it up and I don't live in Europe. I do disagree b/c they may pay less overall, but the individual cost you and I would feel out of our take home salaries would be more. If you're argument is they have better health care or better value for their care, I can't comment b/c I've never experienced it first hand. I do know that it's not cheap. I don't see how all those taxes come out to less than our system though. All I can say is personally the American system hasn't failed me yet. I'm not gonna tell people if it's better or worse than other nations', but I think it's one of those grass is greener situations. Well I don't wanna pull the this is my area of specialty card lol but I did get my masters in Health Policy and I am currently getting my doctorate in comparative health systems. I have studied this issue for more than 10 years and currently work for the WHO. I can give you basic facts like how the US spends 17% of GDP on health care and the next closest is Britain at around 12%. I can tell you that we rank dead last or close to last in every statistical category among OECD nations except for 5 year breast cancer survival rates where we rank very high. I have plenty more facts plus first hand accounts from medical providers around the world, I have studied the medical systems of OECD nations and used their care. Once again I don't want to make this a I know more than you post you know it is just this is my career and I hope to one day reform this system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacase Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Exactly right, this attitude that America is the best is all too well documented. Sometimes the truth hurts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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