Redskins.com: Shanahan Says Success Will Take Time

[stwasm]

The smartest thing I've heard come out of Ashburn in a very long time.

[bird_1972]

I certainly hope he is referring to young and veteran players alike. There are a few veterans I'd like shown the door when it's all said and done.

Honestly, I think this kind of evaluation/cut down needs to happen disproportionately among the vets. We need to get younger.

It's clear our vets as a group lack talent.

[Boss_Hogg]

Tell this to the mentally challenged people that are calling for his head.

Good luck with that Painkiller. The 106.7 listening base is strong on these boards.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Except we aren't. Talk is cheap at this point. Show it.

This is a step in the right direction, but it's nothing but words at this point.

I know we disagree on the McNabb pick up KD, whose value I personally don't think you can judge until at least this time next year; but personally I don't think they could of done much more with what they inherited. The time to judge the new regime will be after this close season, when they finally have a proper free agency to go at, and a better draft hand. If we're stocked with ageing vets again, I'll be asking some SERIOUS questions of Shanahan and the direction the franchise is taking along with the next man.

Until then, I'll reserve judgement. The fact that he's come out with this, which again is about as much info as you'll get from the man, is a step in the right direction.

Hail.

---------- Post added December-14th-2010 at 09:49 AM ----------

You're reading what you want to hear between the lines. We're 5-8 and about to face three teams who will be favored to beat us. He states the obvious: we aren't going to win this year, success will take time. Stop the presses!

See above Of. We both have differing views of what we've seen to date. I see them trying to mix and match between the here and now, and trying to get results in today's "win today" NFL; whilst slowly adding younger bricks that they've been allowed. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you see the whole policy as a "win now" approach. Where they totally ****** up was by turning around on day one saying they we're here to win from the get go. I understand that, but when you don't clarify it with a longer term plan to the fan base, it's not surprising many bought into that regardless of the serious lack of talent.

Hopefully, this is a start of a little more openness. As open as Coach Mike will ever get that is.

Hail.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I don't really think it's fair to judge how Allen and Shanahan are doing with every, individual move. I think we have to take a bigger-picture look and see what this team looks like on each opening day 2012 (give or take) to where it was on opening day 2009. It's going to be a process and part of that process is going to have to include plugging holes until you find permanent pieces. Those plugs might be undrafted rookies or they might be cheap, 15-year veterans. But until we see the big picture changes when the process is more mature, we can't really judge how things are going.

We're going to be a team in transition for a couple years. Hopefully, some of those temporary pieces are good enough to keep us afloat. If not, we'll lose more than we win (which is OK too). I just want to see that we're continuing to cultivate young talent. So far this year, despite the additions of older veterans, we've identified a number of younger players who can contribute in some capacity (as starters or backups). If we keep up this pace, I'll be very happy.

[Bang]

So the other day I was out hiking and I heard a noise just off the trail. Wasn't sure what it was, but it sounded pretty big, so I hunkered down and hoped to see it before it saw me, and I could maybe keep from surprising it and starting an incident.

Anyway, i keep hearing this noise, so I creep up and look through some bushes, and there's this bear.

And he's taking a crap! Right there in the woods!

I couldn't believe it! There it was, proof to the age old question. I still wasn't sure, and then this forest ranger comes up and tells me that they crap in the woods all the time.

No way! I thought. I mean, it makes sense that they would, but I don't know, somehow I always felt like I knew better than all the naturalists and zoologists and common sense reason that told me that they crapped in the woods.

I was very glad that after seeing it for my own eyes, I had that expert in the field stand up and tell me I was seeing a bear crap in the woods.

Whew!

~The fanbase

[zoony]

I said it in another thread, but I think Vinny's 08 and 09 drafts will probably go down as two of the worst in the history of the league, in terms of amount of players picked and playing time/impact. Prior to those two drafts we had a roster made up entirely of free agents from the Gibbs years.

I look at what Shanahan/Allen inherited as an expansion team.

[Dan T.]

So the other day I was out hiking and I heard a noise just off the trail. Wasn't sure what it was, but it sounded pretty big, so I hunkered down and hoped to see it before it saw me, and I could maybe keep from surprising it and starting an incident.

Anyway, i keep hearing this noise, so I creep up and look through some bushes, and there's this bear.

And he's taking a crap! Right there in the woods!

Bull crap.

Or bear crap.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

So far this year, despite the additions of older veterans, we've identified a number of younger players who can contribute in some capacity (as starters or backups). If we keep up this pace, I'll be very happy.

It would appear we're in the minority TD_w of actually believing we're moving in the right direction. Part of that is the organization's fault, in both repeatedly selling this franchise as being a contender, something we've not been since the last Lombardi. Not once, in the pitiful handful of playoff appearances in that time have we gone as genuine contenders; and in continually making the same, repeated, bone headed moves year in, year out. And part, when it comes to the new regime who haven't repeated those moves, save maybe's you could argue McNabb (every other vet. has been on a short term deal; and Brown was worth the gambe on what will be a 3rd for a 5th to get a proven, starting vet. tackle in); is a whole bunch of TOTALLY unrealistic expectations from fans on just what the new regime could do with the pittance of pieces they had to work with.

Hail.

[chipwhich]

So the other day I was out hiking and I heard a noise just off the trail. Wasn't sure what it was, but it sounded pretty big, so I hunkered down and hoped to see it before it saw me, and I could maybe keep from surprising it and starting an incident.

Anyway, i keep hearing this noise, so I creep up and look through some bushes, and there's this bear.

And he's taking a crap! Right there in the woods!

I couldn't believe it! There it was, proof to the age old question. I still wasn't sure, and then this forest ranger comes up and tells me that they crap in the woods all the time.

No way! I thought. I mean, it makes sense that they would, but I don't know, somehow I always felt like I knew better than all the naturalists and zoologists and common sense reason that told me that they crapped in the woods.

I was very glad that after seeing it for my own eyes, I had that expert in the field stand up and tell me I was seeing a bear crap in the woods.

Whew!

~The fanbase

And like groundhog day, we seem to go through this conundrum every 1 or 2 or 4 years.

Just be patient. You will see the bear dropping a deuce in the woods one day. Popeye's anyone? You know bears love chicken

[KDawg]

I know we disagree on the McNabb pick up KD, whose value I personally don't think you can judge until at least this time next year; but personally I don't think they could of done much more with what they inherited. The time to judge the new regime will be after this close season, when they finally have a proper free agency to go at, and a better draft hand. If we're stocked with ageing vets again, I'll be asking some SERIOUS questions of Shanahan and the direction the franchise is taking along with the next man.

Until then, I'll reserve judgement. The fact that he's come out with this, which again is about as much info as you'll get from the man, is a step in the right direction.

Hail.

He hasn't done much that I think of as good moves, GHH. So, talk is cheap. I'd like to see him make good on what's being said here... But so far, I have no reason to believe that will be the case.

[Oldfan]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you see the whole policy as a "win now" approach.

You're mistaken. I think KDawg and I have been on the same page. Shanahan's moves this season have tried to go in two directions at the same time. Some moves were win-future moves, some moves were win-now. We disagree with those who think you can do both at the same time and do them well. For a team that needed to be rebuilt, this year was wasted.

I think Mike Shanahan made the same mistake that most fans made. He underestimated the job that Jim Zorn did in 2009 and, consequently, overestimated his own ability for a quick turnaround. 80% of the problem with this team is lack of talent, but we wasted most of this season learning that.

[KDawg]

You're mistaken. I think KDawg and I have been on the same page. Shanahan's moves this season have tried to go in two directions are the same time. Some moves were win-future moves, some moves were win-now. We disagree with those who think you can do both at the same time. For a team that needed to be rebuilt, this year was wasted.

I think Mike Shanahan made the same mistake that most fans made. They underestimated the job that Jim Zorn did in 2009 and, consequently, overestimated Mike Shanahan's ability for a quick turnaround. 80% of the problem with this team is lack of talent, but we wasted most of this season learning that.

Overall, this is exactly my thinking. The only clarification I'd make to my thoughts is that a team in need of rebuilding really can't do both at the same time. A team that's retooling can.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

He hasn't done much that I think of as good moves, GHH. So, talk is cheap. I'd like to see him make good on what's being said here... But so far, I have no reason to believe that will be the case.

There's a lot of decision's he's made that I wouldn't even attempt to defend him on man, and he's left a lot more questions than answers. There's certainly cause for concern going forward, and I wouldn't rebuke anyone for raising those very genuine concerns. But then there's a whole lot of good he's done in changing the whole culture here. He could of handled certain aspects of the Haynesworth saga better, but ultimately, the message needed sending out. You may not like it, but I'm the HC for a reason, and I'M in charge, not you guys. You either buy TOTALLY in to what we want, or you won't be here. I like the fact the vets. we brought on are low cost, low risk ones to see us through this tough first year. And the rosters slowly getting younger, whether by fault or design.

So for all I too have some nagging questions and worries, I've also seen enough to see, for me anyway's, that we're moving in the right direction.

All that said, this off-season is the biggest in two decades IMHO for the Washington Redskins. We either make the moves for the long term, or we continue to be in the same vicious cycle we've been in since the last Lombardi.

I'll personally reserve judgement of either totally hailing Shanahan as the saviour, or hanging him from the gallows until then.

Hail.

[Dan T.]

I count three bonafide young stars to build around: Trent Williams, Brian Orakpo, and Laron Landry. Four if you want to throw Brandon Banks in as a specialist. That's pretty much it.

[@DCGoldPants]

He should have said that one day 1, and repeated it all offseason and throughout camp.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

You're mistaken. I think KDawg and I have been on the same page. Shanahan's moves this season have tried to go in two directions at the same time. Some moves were win-future moves, some moves were win-now. We disagree with those who think you can do both at the same time. For a team that needed to be rebuilt, this year was wasted.

So we agree on what he's tried to do, but not on if that's possible in today's game. Thank you. Personally, I think you can build to be competitive for the here and now, whilst still adding what you can for the long term.

I agree he maybe overestimated his own ability's to get more out of this group, but I seriously don't think he thought he could have a serious contender this season, however he sold it.

Hail.

[Bang]

And like groundhog day, we seem to go through this conundrum every 1 or 2 or 4 years.

Just be patient. You will see the bear dropping a deuce in the woods one day. Popeye's anyone? You know bears love chicken

Man, I could go for some chicken.

~Bang

[Oldfan]

Overall, this is exactly my thinking. The only clarification I'd make to my thoughts is that a team in need of rebuilding really can't do both at the same time. A team that's retooling can.

Agreed. Mike has a history of avoiding rebuilding. He says he's impatient as though it's a virtue. It isn't if you want to be the best team in the NFL.

[KDawg]

But then there's a whole lot of good he's done in changing the whole culture here.

I've said it before... I don't believe that he's going to change his ways, however, I'm willing to give him time to do so for continuities sake. But, what exactly has he changed in our culture so far?

We still have guys playing only for themselves. We still have a losing atmosphere around the team. The only thing he's really done is shown the players that he's the boss. We should have traded 92 when we had the chance, but since we didn't, I do like the way he handled the whole thing by suspending him. It's the best thing he's done for this team.

I'm not going to say he can't change the culture or he won't. Just that he hasn't.

All that said, this off-season is the biggest in two decades IMHO for the Washington Redskins. We either make the moves for the long term, or we continue to be in the same vicious cycle we've been in since the last Lombardi.

Agreed. All of our questions will be answered. If he changes his ways and goes for a rebuild, I'll be so freakin' encouraged you won't believe the miraculous change. If he does more mixed bag stuff I'll continue to remain indifferent... if he does the same ole, same ole when it comes to veterans, draft picks and free agency I'll be dismayed.

\

[SkinsHokieFan]

Agreed. Mike has a history of avoiding rebuilding. He says he's impatient as though it's a virtue. It isn't if you want to be the best team in the NFL.

Shanahan attempted to replicate the mid 2000s model he had in Denver

That 2005 Denver team that went to the AFC title game was built on trades (Champ Bailey) and free agents (Jake Plummer, the Cleveland Browns d-line, etc)

He then hit a homerun in the 2006 draft (Cutler, Clady, Marshall, Hillis) and again in 2008. He said he felt he had his "Superbowl offense" (and it was a damn good O to build around) but just needed his D

Here, the trades haven't worked so well (McNabb and Brown) and the FA class was non-existant this year

[KDawg]

Shanahan attempted to replicate the mid 2000s model he had in Denver

That 2005 Denver team that went to the AFC title game was built on trades (Champ Bailey) and free agents (Jake Plummer, the Cleveland Browns d-line, etc)

He then hit a homerun in the 2006 draft (Cutler, Clady, Marshall, Hillis) and again in 2008. He said he felt he had his "Superbowl offense" (and it was a damn good O to build around) but just needed his D

Here, the trades haven't worked so well (McNabb and Brown) and the FA class was non-existant this year

The elephant in the room is the word: "Luck".

He had it on his side in Denver. And he's a great offensive mind. So luck + skill = success.

Sure, luck is preparation + opportunity, but luck was still involved. Just as all good team's have a bit of luck on their side.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

If he doe's the latter part of the above KD, I'll be right there being both as dismayed as you, and asking SERIOUS questions of just what's different from A N Other year over the last two decades.

As far as I see it, there's one massive change he's worked on right there. Player accountability. No longer can the go running to the owner and have him defend them over the HC. The HC is in charge, and the players know they won't even have a chance of being here next year if they don't buy fully into what he wants and expects. That's not transcended onto the field as of yet in terms of wins, as hard as they've played the vast majority of games, but there's only so much you can get from the scraps you have to work with,

Hail.

[SMOSS89]

The 2010 season was somewhat of a miscalculation on Shanahan's part.

He knew things would take time, but he tried to do what he could given the circumstances (uncapped year, limited free agent pool) to compete now, while still having an eye towards the future. Some of his offseason moves showed that.

Unfortunately, a lot of his 'win now' moves did not pan out as he planned, with his biggest (if you want to throw McNabb in that category) still being a huge question mark going forward.

He is a two time Super Bowl winning head coach, and he knows what success looks like. He is a man who is confident in his abilities and he thought he could turn this thing around quicker than others did.

Because of that, he was slightly more reluctant to say they were rebuilding (heck, he even said "I wouldn't call it rebuilding" just yesterday, so he still doesn't believe in a full tear down), but now I think he has a much better understanding of the team he inherited.

When you have a roster constructed of mostly free agents, in a limited free agent pool (2010 offseason) and limited draft picks, you're pretty much ****ed. You can't replace all the veterans in one year because there aren't enough free agents out there and you don't have picks in the draft. So he was hamstrung to begin with. Now he has some picks to work with and a better and more expansive free agent class.

I would expect to see another mini-roster purging similar to what we saw last offseason.

[Bang]

I've said it before... I don't believe that he's going to change his ways, however, I'm willing to give him time to do so for continuities sake. But, what exactly has he changed in our culture so far?

We still have guys playing only for themselves. We still have a losing atmosphere around the team. The only thing he's really done is shown the players that he's the boss. We should have traded 92 when we had the chance, but since we didn't, I do like the way he handled the whole thing by suspending him. It's the best thing he's done for this team.

I'm not going to say he can't change the culture or he won't. Just that he hasn't.

I disagree. I think the guys who are selfish are being weeded out, and I think partially that is what this year was to do, is find and identify the positives and negatives.

(Hint to coach: Danny Smith is a negative!)

I don't know that there's a loser's mentality either. In some games they've given up, like vs the Giants.. in others they haven't, like even when the Eagles were blowing them out. And most recently, I thought the defense played with a lot more fire and desire this past Sunday than they have in most games this year.

Losers quit after the disastrous start in Tennessee coming on the heels of the MNF shellacking. That punt return coupled with the offensive sputters would have driven this team to depression in years past. Instead they fought back and won.

As to Shanny showing them who's boss.. well it's about damned time someone did, I say. Zorn didn't do it, Gibbs didn't do it, Spurrier didn't do it... high time a coach came in and showed these boys what's at stake and how they're expected to pursue it.

As to the offseason, my friend I think you will be white-knuckling it. Shanny is a sucker for free agency, the saving grace is hopefully Allen will help him make deals that don't kill our future. (That said, Shanny has been known to make sugar out of **** thru free agents too. I know I've laughed before, until it worked.)

~Bang