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The Official Washington Wizards Thread: The Unseld Jr Era


BRAVEONAWARPATH
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Gator,

It's not that Gay is a bad player I like his game. But I would'nt trade a top 5 pick for Gay thats crazy unless they took back the same salary. There are guys outta there in free agency that can help this team and we will have a boatload of capspace.

James Harden

Eric Gordon

Nicholas Batum

and a slew of other players. The point is you give me 1 of those guys plus my top 5 pick instead of Gay. To trade for Rudy you wanna give up capspace plus a top 5 pick, no way, not even EG would do that lol atleast I hope not.

At this point i'm not sold Wall is the #1 option to lead this team that guy might still need to be found with Wall playing 2nd fiddle. I hope i'm wrong but Wall can't shoot or take care of the ball its been that way the last 3 years even at Kentucky and its not improving. Can he improve it who knows but at this point its not looking good.

Ted, better hire a vet coach that will make him take care of the ball preferably in a heavy pick&roll system like JVG or Sloan. I'd rather use Walls athletism in the halfcourt slicing a defense then running down court like speed racer turning the ball over or missing layups. I've never seen a player miss as many layups as he does its mind boggling. A bigtime scorer can get away with turnovers but not your point guard thats not a bigtime scorer.

I love Walls potential but he has serious holes in his game and needs a respected, smart, winning coach to put him in positions to succeed.

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If we don't get the top pick for Davis (who, honestly, I'm not that enamored with just yet), I really hope we don't make the mistake of taking Barnes. Robinson is an easy #2 on my list right now.

Go after Gordon, draft Robinson or Davis and you have a pretty solid base.

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my guy Thomas Robinson's line tonight:

20 pts (9/12 fg's, 2/3 ft's), 17rebs, 4 assists, 2 blocks, 2 Steals.

I like his game I actually watched a good portion of it. But he won't be a top 5 pick and there is speculation he is barely 6-7 if true will drop his stock somewhat. I'd still take quite a few guys over him at this point and we will have a top 5 pick.

I just finished the G-Town-UConn game. I don't care for Drummond he looks like a chubby lazy turd this is the 3rd time i've seen him and he does nothing for me. Henry Sims was balling on him. And Lamb was horrible tonight throwing up airballs just look like he was in full shot jacker mode. Thats the worst i've seen Lamb play but GTown will defend especially Clark.

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The bigs in this draft have some serious flaws. Davis has the same offensive ability and build as Jan Vesely. Drummond has a questionable work ethic and can't hit a free throw to save his life. I don't think the wizards can stand another deeply flawed project. This team needs competent scorers at the 2 and 3 and some off the bench.

We can't have a team built on basketball players with horribly incomplete basic skills considered essential at there positions.

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Gator,

It's not that Gay is a bad player I like his game. But I would'nt trade a top 5 pick for Gay thats crazy unless they took back the same salary. There are guys outta there in free agency that can help this team and we will have a boatload of capspace.

James Harden

I would love to have James Harden and Gay on this team, and i would gladly trade our pick if it meant we could have both of them. The only guy in the draft i like ( for our team) is Barnes.

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I would love to have James Harden and Gay on this team' date=' and i would gladly trade our pick if it meant we could have both of them. The only guy in the draft i like ( for our team) is Barnes.[/quote']

If we did'nt get the # 1 overall pick and Memphis would take back salary like Blatche+ filler I'd trade the pick for Gay. But I would'nt trade the pick for a overpaid Gay straightup because then you lose a top draft pick and a boatload of cap space for Gay.

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Last night was what it would look like if we had consistent shooting from the wings. Wall would average double digit assists. We could run the break and he'd have outlets that can run with him and make the open shots he'd create for them.

One of the many disadvantages from having a team full of young players is the lack of strength team wide. Our players are long and fast but physically underdeveloped on the whole, and give up a lot of strength to players who are at least four or five years older than them.

Even Seraphin doesn't look fully grown even though he's got a good level of strength right now. Booker and Mack are the only young players who look filled out with good strength for the position. We commit a lot of fouls because we get pushed around and can't keep opponents from getting to the spots they want.

It hurts that our strongest players like Blatche and Lewis came in so out of shape and are usually disinterested defenders and post players anyway.

If Vesely and Seraphin were each stronger, they'd both be a force defensively, especially on the low block. Vesely gets backed down by guards and they throw elbows at him mercilessly.

Wall needs to get a lot stronger too so he can play through contact on his way to the rim. And McGee will never be a quality low post scorer until he develops a stronger base despite his length and quickness.

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ARE YOU ****ING SERIOUS? I swear to god i have lost all faith in NBA officiating.

Just now? Hell, I've been against NBA officiating since Jordan entered the league and certain players got star treatment. Then, when Donaghy was arrested, it affirmed by belief that the league is fixed, coupled with only 8 out of 30 teams winning the title in the last 30 years did it for me.

Also, to expound on what this team needs. Shooting. Shooting. Shooting. Someone who can shoot the ball and actually have it go on that little orange thingy with the white strings hanging from it.

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I'd love to see a stat like "assist opportunities": plays where Wall hits a teammates with a good pass and a solid look but the teammate doesn't convert. I might log that myself next game I catch.

If we did'nt get the # 1 overall pick and Memphis would take back salary like Blatche+ filler I'd trade the pick for Gay. But I would'nt trade the pick for a overpaid Gay straightup because then you lose a top draft pick and a boatload of cap space for Gay.

I can see it now. We trade the pick for Gay, 20 years later, NBATV: "Top Ten Worst Draft Day Deals Ever".

"Gay went on to have a decent run in Washington before blowing out his knee three years later. Meanwhile Barnes/Jones/Sullinger/Drummond/Lamb/etc went on to be arguably the greatest at their position in a HOF career in Memphis"

Edited by G.A.C.O.L.B.
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The bigs in this draft have some serious flaws. Davis has the same offensive ability and build as Jan Vesely. Drummond has a questionable work ethic and can't hit a free throw to save his life. I don't think the wizards can stand another deeply flawed project. This team needs competent scorers at the 2 and 3 and some off the bench.

We can't have a team built on basketball players with horribly incomplete basic skills considered essential at there positions.

That's the short sighted view IMO. Shooting is like the one surefire teachable skill and strength gets developed over time.

Taking the short sighted view would have had Orlando draft Emeka Okafor over Dwight Howard in 2004. Taking the short term view is why we traded the fifth pick and three players for Mike Miller and Randy Foye in 2009 and pissed away our chance to draft Stephen Curry and Ricky Rubio. And unlike Rubio, Curry was obviously going to be available for us to pick at five at the time we made that trade. Can you imagine how much better off we'd be right now if we had drafted Curry that year?

With a high lottery pick in a stacked class, if we've got a chance at a potential franchise talent like Davis, you've got to take him.

This team is bad. Talent needs to be our first concern. We need to do whatever we can to get the most talented players, not sacrifice our ability to do so to take lesser or more common talents that can help us in the short term.

What's the necessity of finding short term scoring against larger long term potential? Carving out an eighth seed with Wall and the supporting cast we've put in place? To me that would ensure more than anything that Wall would walk when his contract is up. And even if we take a long term project, the intervening years wouldn't matter so long as he actually develops into a franchise player.

Say we're lucky enough to draft Davis but he takes four seasons before he becomes a 20-10 guy and Wall doesn't see the light at the end of the tunnel so he leaves in FA. We've insulated ourselves against his departure by getting a second franchise talent. Half the teams in the league have quality starting PGs and it's been a strong position in the draft for several years consecutively. We'd be able to replace Wall far easier than we'd be able to find a do it all PF.

And besides, having suffered through the awful times here, would Wall really jump ship the moment things start to turn around? I doubt it.

Regarding your specific criticisms of Davis, I think Davis has way more skill than Vesely, especially on offense. He's considered the consensus first overall pick in a stacked draft class after all.

He's a quality passer. He can handle the ball, has phenom hands that will be among the best in the league, and has rare speed and fluidity for his position. In the right offensive system, he could average near 18 PPG eventually based on those attributes alone. But Davis can already shoot dribble pullups and has nice range and form suggesting he can develop a quality mid range game for a PF down the line. He's the leading scorer on an absolutely stacked Kentucky team. If he were playing for a less talented team and had a featured role offensively, he'd probably be scoring 20 PPG as a freshman.

He's also clearly trying to develop his footwork around the basket and has potential as a low post scoring option.

I think Davis has potential to be a more complete and impactful player than Wall and is a better #1 overall choice than Wall was. He just gets it. Tremendous basketball IQ and always seems to be in the right place at the right time. He can be completely surrounded by talented prospects and still blow everyone away as the clear best player on the floor.

His build will be a problem early on but it's clear he's got the body of a 19 year old who went through an 8 inch growth spurt a little over a year ago--he'll get considerably bigger and stronger. He's got broad shoulders and a gigantic frame. But you know what, despite his lack of bulk and strength, he's still a dominant defender that doesn't foul. And he'll always be a monstrously good shot blocker.

If we had the #1 pick, I think we'd be crazy not to take Davis.

Dummond, I might agree with you about because he gives me a slight Kwame vibe. I don't know anything about his work ethic, but to me, he looks his age and is not nearly as good as Davis. He's also got a timidity about him and his game that suggests a lack of confidence in his scoring ability. He doesn't throw his weight around and doesn't rebound like he should. He needs another year at Uconn to come out of his shell IMO. I don't think you can take a guy who isn't even close to being the best player on his college team number one overall. I'd probably take Harrison Barnes and Jared Sullinger over him--both guys who became the clear cut leaders and best players on their teams early in their freshman seasons. I'd probably take MKG over him too.

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Well I liked the first 3 quarters.

Wittman ran some really odd line ups and left some folks on the floor too long. Wall had a REALLY bad night. I don't want to see another one like it any time soon.

The Magic knew they could run Howard at us all night and our bigs would either get in foul trouble or start playing cautious / soft. Could have used Turiaf last night to back that guy down a little bit.

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If we did'nt get the # 1 overall pick and Memphis would take back salary like Blatche+ filler I'd trade the pick for Gay. But I would'nt trade the pick for a overpaid Gay straightup because then you lose a top draft pick and a boatload of cap space for Gay.

Who do you like aside from Davis in this class?

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If we did'nt get the # 1 overall pick and Memphis would take back salary like Blatche+ filler I'd trade the pick for Gay. But I would'nt trade the pick for a overpaid Gay straightup because then you lose a top draft pick and a boatload of cap space for Gay.

this is what I'm thinking; you might even get them to take Rashard Lewis (since he has the buy out clause in his contract) then you trade (give away Blatche) Like Destino always says.....someone is going to take Blatche to be their 2nd big off the bench (especially if we give him away) and you still have the amnesty just in case Gay get hurt or brings guns to the locker room.

---------- Post added February-2nd-2012 at 10:58 AM ----------

Well I liked the first 3 quarters.

Wittman ran some really odd line ups and left some folks on the floor too long. Wall had a REALLY bad night. I don't want to see another one like it any time soon.

The Magic knew they could run Howard at us all night and our bigs would either get in foul trouble or start playing cautious / soft. Could have used Turiaf last night to back that guy down a little bit.

I really liked what Wittman did tonight. He gave bench guys that performed lots of minutes. The only questionable move to me was not playing Seraphin in the 4th quarter....Kevin was gettin' it last night.

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Who do you like aside from Davis in this class?

Davis is far and away my #1 overall by a mile.

As of right now overall

#1- Davis

#2- Kidd-Gilchrist

#3- Sully

#4- Barnes

#5- Lamb

#6- Robinson

#7- Drummond on upside and size alone he has alot of work to do.

I see know way we pick any lower then that, hopefully everybody comes out this year because it killed last years draft with everybody going back to school. I'd say we will pick in the #4-#6 area just our luck.

This team needs a young big shooter like Ryan Anderson he will be a free agent after next year at just 24 years old and is steadily improving putting up 17 and 7 while shooting 3's like a mad man. Looks like the same player from college and could really fit in with Wall. Would be nice to have a offensive Jamison type big to play with Wall.

Depending on who our new coach is if its a guy like JVG or Sloan i'd lean toward drafting Sully if its not #1 overall. He knows how to play the game, sets very good screens and can be a perfect pick&roll player with Wall. He can also go down in the post and bully his way to the rim.

If Young is let go we almost certainly will have to get Barnes or Lamb. I actually think Barnes will be a better 3 but can play the 2 in spots. Lamb will be a 2 that can steal minutes at the 3 because of his long arms. Even with NY coming back and Barnes at the 3 it could really improve us offensively.

Edited by Samuels
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Davis is far and away my #1 overall by a mile.

As of right now overall

#1- Davis

#2- Kidd-Gilchrist

#3- Sully

#4- Barnes

#5- Lamb

#6- Robinson

#7- Drummond on upside and size alone he has alot of work to do.

I see know way we pick any lower then that, hopefully everybody comes out this year because it killed last years draft with everybody going back to school. I'd say we will pick in the #4-#6 area just our luck.

This team needs a young big shooter like Ryan Anderson he will be a free agent after next year at just 24 years old and is steadily improving putting up 17 and 7 while shooting 3's like a mad man. Looks like the same player from college and could really fit in with Wall. Would be nice to have a offensive Jamison type big to play with Wall.

Depending on who our new coach is if its a guy like JVG or Sloan i'd lean toward drafting Sully if its not #1 overall. He knows how to play the game, sets very good screens and can be a perfect pick&roll player with Wall. He can also go down in the post and bully his way to the rim.

If Young is let go we almost certainly will have to get Barnes or Lamb. I actually think Barnes will be a better 3 but can play the 2 in spots. Lamb will be a 2 that can steal minutes at the 3 because of his long arms. Even with NY coming back and Barnes at the 3 it could really improve us offensively.

I was a big time Sullinger detractor last season, but he is actually what we need. Like you said, he already knows how to play the game well and could likely have a large impact on scoring and rebounding from day one. I don't think his ceiling is as high as the others you've listed, but we are in need of someone who can come in and contribute on the offensive end right away.

my list goes like this:

1 - Trade the pick for a wing who can score efficiently

2 - Barnes

3 - Sullinger

4 - Lamb

5 - Trade back and take Beal

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One thing that scares me about Lamb is how skinny he is. I don't think he gets much bigger either. He's a narrow guy. Barnes feels a lot safer than him.

I like your top four Samuels although I might rank Barnes ahead of Sullinger. Barnes is a better athlete than he gets credit for, and a better athlete for his position than Sully is. The totality of his scoring and offensive tools gives him a bit of a Granger/Grant Hill style vibe for me, and I do think he's still got untapped offensive upside since he transitioned to the perimeter so late.

I'm very curious to see what Sully measures. If he hits 6'9 with a good long reach, I'd probably end up taking him over Barnes given our dire need for a PF. We've got Vesely and Singleton as decent long term options at the three but Booker and Seraphin are not NBA starters.

I'm also curious about where MKG fits in at the NBA level. I have a hard time seeing him fail, he just has starter and leader in him and is the kind of guy who can galvanize a team and get them working together. I think you're on to something ranking him 2nd, but where do you see him playing? I think he's a king sized two with top tier rebounding and ball handling skills. He's not going to blow people away with offensive skill level. He kind of reminds me of Tyreke Evans in some ways.

I think the Baylor prospects are interesting too, although I like Perry Jones less as time goes on and we see more of him. Quincy Miller looks like he could be a tremendous scorer one day, but I'd be pretty surprised if he came out this year.

I also really like Bradley Beal if he comes out. He's a really smooth shooter and natural two guard that can thrive off the ball. He's good all of the way around, not a shot chucker, and has a nice mid range jumper. It'd be nice to get a second lottey pick and target him toward the end of the lottery.

---------- Post added February-2nd-2012 at 03:09 PM ----------

Anyone know if this year counts as Ricky Rubio's rookie seasons?

Does anyone else feel that it's cruel irony that John Wall is slumping in obscurity while Rubio thrives on such a nationally visible level? The Sports Gods are cruel sons of ****es to a DC sports fan. They need to make this right by having Wall make a leap and giving us a franchise talent to pair with him.

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One thing that scares me about Lamb is how skinny he is. I don't think he gets much bigger either. He's a narrow guy. Barnes feels a lot safer than him.

I like your top four Samuels although I might rank Barnes ahead of Sullinger. Barnes is a better athlete than he gets credit for, and a better athlete for his position than Sully is. The totality of his scoring and offensive tools gives him a bit of a Granger/Grant Hill style vibe for me, and I do think he's still got untapped offensive upside since he transitioned to the perimeter so late.

I'm very curious to see what Sully measures. If he hits 6'9 with a good long reach, I'd probably end up taking him over Barnes given our dire need for a PF. We've got Vesely and Singleton as decent long term options at the three but Booker and Seraphin are not NBA starters.

I'm also curious about where MKG fits in at the NBA level. I have a hard time seeing him fail, he just has starter and leader in him and is the kind of guy who can galvanize a team and get them working together. I think you're on to something ranking him 2nd, but where do you see him playing? I think he's a king sized two with top tier rebounding and ball handling skills. He's not going to blow people away with offensive skill level. He kind of reminds me of Tyreke Evans in some ways.

I think the Baylor prospects are interesting too, although I like Perry Jones less as time goes on and we see more of him. Quincy Miller looks like he could be a tremendous scorer one day, but I'd be pretty surprised if he came out this year.

I also really like Bradley Beal if he comes out. He's a really smooth shooter and natural two guard that can thrive off the ball. He's good all of the way around, not a shot chucker, and has a nice mid range jumper. It'd be nice to get a second lottey pick and target him toward the end of the lottery.

---------- Post added February-2nd-2012 at 03:09 PM ----------

Anyone know if this year counts as Ricky Rubio's rookie seasons?

Does anyone else feel that it's cruel irony that John Wall is slumping in obscurity while Rubio thrives on such a nationally visible level? The Sports Gods are cruel sons of ****es to a DC sports fan. They need to make this right by having Wall make a leap and giving us a franchise talent to pair with him.

Lamb will be a 2 guard Steve because of that narrow frame much like Rip Hamilton. He is way better off the dribble and a much better long ball shooter then Hamilton ever was. Lamb has very long arms and can be a defensive force as well. If Young is let go you gotta look at him hard.

Barnes I think will be a solid pro much like Sully. They both understand how to play but niether will be superstars probably #2 or very good # 3 options on championship caliber teams. They will probably average around 15-18ppg much like there college production.

MKG will be a proto-typical NBA 3 in my opinion just like Barnes.

I'd eat some salary much like Cleveland did in the Baron Davis deal to get another top 10 lottery pick. That pick ended up being Kyrie Irving how lucky Cleveland got in that deal. This years draft is really top heavy compared to years past. I'd hate adding 2 more rookies plus our 2nd rounder but we can also draft guys that know how to play and not athletes.

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This team is bad. Talent needs to be our first concern. We need to do whatever we can to get the most talented players, not sacrifice our ability to do so to take lesser or more common talents that can help us in the short term.

This teams biggest weaknesses are "poor shooting" and "no major scoring threat". More than anything else this team lacks guys that can create and hit shots efficiently on a consistent basis. We have loads of potential and "talent" on this roster.
What's the necessity of finding short term scoring against larger long term potential? Carving out an eighth seed with Wall and the supporting cast we've put in place? To me that would ensure more than anything that Wall would walk when his contract is up. And even if we take a long term project, the intervening years wouldn't matter so long as he actually develops into a franchise player.
It's not about "winning now" as much as it is fielding a actual professional basketball team so that rookies can develop correctly. Guys lacking an NBA game should get 30 minutes unless someone is hurt. They should be fighting for floor time against veterans that know how to play the game in practice.
Regarding your specific criticisms of Davis, I think Davis has way more skill than Vesely, especially on offense. He's considered the consensus first overall pick in a stacked draft class after all.
Currently. Before him Drummond was the player all the scouts were in love with. We'll see how it plays out but the scouts, in reading the reports, still project Drummond to be a better offensive player than Davis.

He's a quality passer. He can handle the ball, has phenom hands that will be among the best in the league, and has rare speed and fluidity for his position. In the right offensive system, he could average near 18 PPG eventually based on those attributes alone. But Davis can already shoot dribble pullups and has nice range and form suggesting he can develop a quality mid range game for a PF down the line. He's the leading scorer on an absolutely stacked Kentucky team. If he were playing for a less talented team and had a featured role offensively, he'd probably be scoring 20 PPG as a freshman.

He's also clearly trying to develop his footwork around the basket and has potential as a low post scoring option.

I think Davis has potential to be a more complete and impactful player than Wall and is a better #1 overall choice than Wall was. He just gets it. Tremendous basketball IQ and always seems to be in the right place at the right time. He can be completely surrounded by talented prospects and still blow everyone away as the clear best player on the floor.

His build will be a problem early on but it's clear he's got the body of a 19 year old who went through an 8 inch growth spurt a little over a year ago--he'll get considerably bigger and stronger. He's got broad shoulders and a gigantic frame. But you know what, despite his lack of bulk and strength, he's still a dominant defender that doesn't foul. And he'll always be a monstrously good shot blocker.

If you watch the games or even the highlights of the games you'll see that Davis doesn't create his own shot. His teammates create for him and almost all of his scoring comes from put backs, lobs, or fast breaks off of a pass. There is nothing about his paper thin frame that says he will develop an NBA post game. We THINK he might be able to add a great deal of weight but if he does that quickness that allows him to be a terror on defense will greatly diminish. You say he's working on his footwork but I haven't seen it. I also haven't seen him show a midrange game that I would expect from a wing player that hit a growth spurt. His body might actually be LESS developed than Jan Vesely at this point... and Javale McGee gets pushed around in the paint despite being is heavier, stronger, and taller than both of them.

I think the Marcus Camby comparison is closer than Garnett. Chris Bosh is another player with the slender body type and but he had inside and outside game coming out of college.

Edited by Destino
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This teams biggest weaknesses are "poor shooting" and "no major scoring threat". More than anything else this team lacks guys that can create and hit shots efficiently on a consistent basis. We have loads of potential and "talent" on this roster.

It's not about "winning now" as much as it is fielding a actual professional basketball team so that rookies can develop correctly. Guys lacking an NBA game should get 30 minutes unless someone is hurt. They should be fighting for floor time against veterans that know how to play the game in practice.

Currently. Before him Drummond was the player all the scouts were in love with. We'll see how it plays out but the scouts, in reading the reports, still project Drummond to be a better offensive player than Davis.

If you watch the games or even the highlights of the games you'll see that Davis doesn't create his own shot. His teammates create for him and almost all of his scoring comes from put backs, lobs, or fast breaks off of a pass. There is nothing about his paper thin frame that says he will develop an NBA post game. We THINK he might be able to add a great deal of weight but if he does that quickness that allows him to be a terror on defense will greatly diminish. You say he's working on his footwork but I haven't seen it. I also haven't seen him show a midrange game that I would expect from a wing player that hit a growth spurt. His body might actually be LESS developed than Jan Vesely at this point... and Javale McGee gets pushed around in the paint despite being is heavier, stronger, and taller than both of them.

I think the Marcus Camby comparison is closer than Garnett. Chris Bosh is another player with the slender body type and but he had inside and outside game coming out of college.

+10

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Hell, about 8 months ago Austin Rivers was the consensus #1 overall pick. Not sure how he's been doing lately, but early in the season he looked horrible. Mocks I've seen barely have him in the lottery. This time last year, there were whispers that Harrison Barnes was an overhyped bust college recruit and Terence Jones might be the #1 overall pick. Last mock I saw had Jones going 20th. Three years ago, nobody was talking about Blake Griffin as the #1 overall pick--it was all BJ ****ing Mullens. Remember Felipe Lopez at St Johns back in the day? Slam magazine all but declared him the next Jordan. Sebastian Telfair was another one who was annoited. Remember Terence Morris at Maryland? If he had come out his sophomore year there was talk he'd go #1 overall. I'm not even sure he went in the 1st when he did come out his senior year, and he was definitely out of the league in a couple of years.

So yeah, consensus top pick, especially at this stage in the game, doesn't mean much. Personally I don't get the infatuation with Davis. I think Camby is a good comparison and with a draft this talented and deep, I'm not taking Camby #1 overall. That's just drafting size. Harrison Barnes is my uy.

Edited by G.A.C.O.L.B.
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  • BRAVEONAWARPATH changed the title to The Official Washington Wizards Thread: The JOHN WALL ERA
  • BRAVEONAWARPATH changed the title to The Official Washington Wizards Thread: The Unseld Jr Era

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