The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Going Commando]

caught a little of the UCLA game last night. They lost again. To a decent team on the road though. But it's definitely a bit troubling that a team with the #1 or #2 recruiting class has been this bad so far. And they haven't gotten better since Shabazz started playing (2-3 in that span, good win over Georgia, but bad loss to Cal Poly canceling it out)

Shabazz shot 7/12 for 16 points and 4 rebounds. That's right around his averages of 16 & 5.6.

Some things that stand out to me about Shabazz so far:

- Similar to Joe Johnson and James Harden, he's more of a SF type than SG type skill-wise IMO, but because of his height, he's probably going to have to play more at the 2 in the NBA. I think he could play SF against most NBA SFs but big ones like Carmelo are going to give him problems. He looks like a legit 6'5 to 6'6", bigger than Beal. Seems like he has long arms and he's got an NBA ready body bulk wise. Not going to have change his body once he gets to the league. It's eerie how much he looks like James Harden out on the court. All he needs is the beard.

- He scores in a variety of ways but he doesn't seem to be that assertive offensively. When is he going to take over a game and drop 30 on a team? He's willing to play within the team I guess. I was looking for more of an alpha scorer in him. Again, this is really reminiscent of James Harden IMO.

- He stops the ball a bit. He's not selfish, he's an ISO scorer and shooter and not a drive and dish type. Better rebounder than I thought. His rebounding numbers have been pretty good so far but they haven't been consistent.

That's about all I've got. Really haven't seen enough of him to conclude more. It's been a very disappointing start to the season for his team. I don't want to make too much out of these games though. He does have skills and I still like him the best as a fit for us. We need a scorer.

[RonArtest15]

I like Shabazz a lot. He's got a little refining to do while at UCLA, but he's NBA ready.

I also like Noel - but just not for the Wizards. He's a little more rough around the edges and we don't need another project on this roster. We need guys who are ready to step in and contribute right away.

I think we had this discussion leading up to the draft this year. Most of us were in the MKG/Robinson camp - although would be fine if the team went with Beal. For those of us who were in the MKG/Robinson corner, we viewed them as the most NBA ready of the prospects projected in the top-5/10 players. Now, obviously Robinson has had his ups/downs, but MKG has been an absolute beast in the early part of the season.

Shabazz would step in and immediately help this squad. Assuming he falls to #3 in the 2013 draft HAHAHAHAHA.

[CrypticVillain]

Shabazz would step in and immediately help this squad. Assuming he falls to #3 in the 2013 draft HAHAHAHAHA.

Sad but true. :doh:

[StillUnknown]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wizards/jan-vesely-moving-backward-in-his-second-season/2012/12/01/04c20884-3c05-11e2-8a97-363b0f9a0ab3_story.html

After 14 games, the Wizards have one win and Vesely, the sixth overall pick in the 2011 draft out the Czech Republic, has more fouls (34) than points (29) or rebounds (30).

“He needs to play better. No question,” Coach Randy Wittman said recently. “He’s non-aggressive and he can't play that way.”

Until Vesely begins to resemble the player who averaged 8.5 points and 7.0 rebounds while starting the final 15 games last season, Wittman is in no rush to put him back into his regular rotation. A one-time starter, the 7-foot Vesely has seen the floor for a total of 14 minutes in the past three games — including when Wittman simply needed a tall person to challenge an inbounds for the final second of the Wizards’ lone win, over Portland.

“It’s a team sport and if somebody plays better, I have to respect that,” said Vesely, who is averaging just 2.1 points and 2.1 rebounds in his second season — basically half of what he produced during a maligned rookie campaign. “I just need to keep playing hard, work on my skills every day and if I get a chance, I have to use it in the right way. That’s the only thing I can do.”

Vesely, 22, said he focused on improving his shooting during his first full offseason, but his field goal percentage has dipped (from 53.7 percent to 43.3 percent) and his free throw shooting has declined considerably (from 53.2 percent to 23.1 percent). He has officially been credited with missing 10 of his 13 attempts from the foul line, but one air ball never made the stat sheet because it was so short that players were called for a lane violation while going after the rebound.

He was a terrible draft pick for this team. Thanks Ernie.

[Going Commando]

I like Shabazz a lot. He's got a little refining to do while at UCLA, but he's NBA ready.

I also like Noel - but just not for the Wizards. He's a little more rough around the edges and we don't need another project on this roster. We need guys who are ready to step in and contribute right away.

I think we had this discussion leading up to the draft this year. Most of us were in the MKG/Robinson camp - although would be fine if the team went with Beal. For those of us who were in the MKG/Robinson corner, we viewed them as the most NBA ready of the prospects projected in the top-5/10 players. Now, obviously Robinson has had his ups/downs, but MKG has been an absolute beast in the early part of the season.

Shabazz would step in and immediately help this squad. Assuming he falls to #3 in the 2013 draft HAHAHAHAHA.

Your laughing to keep from crying aren't you. There can be no doubt that third is the highest we'll pick. You can pencil Orlando in for first overall and I'm thinking Toronto is due for 2nd if they still have their pick.

Robinson's struggles surprise me. He had an NBA ready body and he should be rebounding even if he isn't scoring. That stuff usually translates. Sacramento isn't an easy place to thrive though.

I was in the Robinson and MKG camp too but Beal was very much in that same tier for me. When our pick came up I think I wanted Robinson over Beal but I was very happy with Beal. My thinking was, we're bad at rebounding and bigs are more valuable than guards ergo TRob is more valuable than Beal.

I like Beal over TRob now though. Neither have been that impactful but Beal is at least scoring. He's also got some extra dimensions to his game than I thought, much better at creating space for himself with the dribble than I realized.

I was watching some old Ray Allen highlights for the Sonics and I was struck by how similar the way he looks and moves is to Beal. Like down to their gestures. They handle the ball the same way, they use the same types of steps and have the same kind of footwork. They move at a similar speed. They even kind of look like each other and have the same posture. I don't know, it made me feel a lot better about Beal's potential. It's going to take a while, but I think Beal is eventually going to perfect the footwork and balance to be able to curl off screens catch and then shoot from anywhere on the court. That's like the most dangerous part of Ray Allen's repertoire back when he was a #1 option. His signature IMO. Once Beal gets it, he'll look more like Ray.

On Shabazz, I still think he's the best fit for us despite the fact he's been underwhelming. Before it was him by a mile. Now it's closer and I wouldn't mind if we got a center. Seeing as how we don't know how much we can count on Nene, we need a center. We've got too many forwards. We need to deal away most of them. I wouldn't care

I don't really like Nerlens that much, particularly for us seeing as how we can't develop anyone. But I wouldn't cry if he was the pick. He's got a good frame and good athleticism. If you kind of picture him at age 23 or so he looks like he'll be big. Looks like he can carry a good deal of muscle. He's also got a really good IQ and he sees the floor well. For a normal team, that's a super appealing seven footer. Not for us though. It's really hard for me to get behind a project like Nerlens because how much of a failure Vesely is becoming.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Fwiw, my draft board consists of Shabazz and Len.

After that it's a steep drop imo.

[StillUnknown]

Michael Lee

‏@MrMichaelLee

Wittman on John Wall's return: "I tell my mom I don't know. She asks me every day too. 'When's John coming back?' I don't know mom" #wizards

[Going Commando]

Michael Lee

‏@MrMichaelLee

Wittman on John Wall's return: "I tell my mom I don't know. She asks me every day too. 'When's John coming back?' I don't know mom" #wizards

Correct answer is, "just in time to go on a 7 game winning streak at the end of the year."

---------- Post added December-2nd-2012 at 05:06 PM ----------

Been reading up on Shabazz and apparently he had a high ankle sprain in the summer and a shoulder strain a couple of weeks ago. He's barely practiced with the team apparently. I think that could explain his slow start but it raises a different concern about how injury prone he is.

[Destino]

You know what's more helpful than "I don't know"? An explanation as to what the hell is going on with his knee. It took three MRIs to find the injury and its now past the time he was supposed to be on the floor and he's not even practicing at near full speed. Have they looked at it again? Does he still feel pain? Is there still swelling?

If they don't say anything useful people keep asking. Even his mom apparently.

---------- Post added December-2nd-2012 at 05:10 PM ----------

[/color]Been reading up on Shabazz and apparently he had a high ankle sprain in the summer and a shoulder strain a couple of weeks ago. He's barely practiced with the team apparently. I think that could explain his slow start but it raises a different concern about how injury prone he is.

I don't want Wall on the court with Beal and Shabazz. Some youth is fine but a second year player me a rookie getting a ton of time isn't a winning recipe. Of course the teams hands are tied because of stupid trades so well likely have a young team... Again.

[StillUnknown]

I don't want Wall on the court with Beal and Shabazz. Some youth is fine but a second year player me a rookie getting a ton of time isn't a winning recipe. Of course the teams hands are tied because of stupid trades so well likely have a young team... Again.

Young players who don't know how to play on a team that can't develop talent, matched with 2 or 3 overpriced "veterans" who can't play any longer.

[Going Commando]

I don't want Wall on the court with Beal and Shabazz. Some youth is fine but a second year player me a rookie getting a ton of time isn't a winning recipe. Of course the teams hands are tied because of stupid trades so well likely have a young team... Again.

Yeah it's not ideal but I just don't think we can do any better. Our vets are such garbage that the young players are already better than them for the most part.

At least Beal plays with some sense.and doesn't jack it up and turn it over constantly. Plus he plays defense.

If we're really lucky with how Singleton, Crawford, Nene, Seraphin and John play next season, we may be able to bring a player like Shabazz along slowly. The team around him might actually have clearly defined roles so that Shabazz could just focus on doing what he already knows how to do and not have to be a crux early on. It'll be year four. You've got to hope by then John and Crawford and Seraphin will pretty much be vets and totally comfortable playing together and Nene will be totally integrated by then. I've also got hope for Singleton yet. If those five come together as the solid core for a team, we can finally stop the bleeding on this 8 year rebuilding plan.

---------- Post added December-2nd-2012 at 06:17 PM ----------

Fwiw, my draft board consists of Shabazz and Len.

After that it's a steep drop imo.

I'd consider putting Zeller up there. Someone made a LaMarcus Aldridge comparison. It's not that great, Aldridge is a very long armed player, but it's interesting. I like the ways Zeller can score the ball.

I'm not sure I'd say there is a steep drop in this class though because it doesn't really feel like any of these prospects are that great. This looks like one of those classes that doesn't have any big time stars. It's just a lot of role players, flawed #1s, and incomplete projects really. I think picks 1-14 or so will all be more similar in value than different. The star players that come out of this class will probably come out of nowhere and be players that managed to overcome some problem or flaw that nobody expected. Something strange like Alex Poythress learning to shoot or LeBryan Nash figuring out how to play.

[StillUnknown]

http://www.tedstake.com/2012/12/02/public-support-for-our-young-players/

I am not surprised that these stories about the draft and young players have started to appear in print. They are well researched and well written. But there are two perspectives to share.

Young players develop at their own pace and in context to how the team is developing and playing. When you are a sitting with one win this season, it is very easy, and frankly casual, to critique very young players. We now have six players we have drafted in the lineup, and one player that we traded for who was a first round pick in the lineup, as well in Jordan Crawford. So, that’s seven players out of 15 that have come into our rotation from the draft in the last three off seasons.

Frankly, more than half our team is now made up of seasoned and complementary playing vets. We have seven new vets in our lineup this season as well. And Cartier Martin, who has played with our team before. People advocate for change, and sometimes having so much change at a time when you also have core players out with injuries makes for a very tough start to a season. I am supportive of our young players, and will continue to advocate that we build around a core of players that we have drafted and developed. We have made trades to add the vets. We have done some free agent signings. What we haven’t done is wade into free agency to add a big star to our team.

We have many players on our team that we drafted. As noted, John Wall, our point guard is our most tenured player. This would be only his third season. He hasn’t’ played a minute yet this season. The other two players in that draft – three seasons ago – Kevin Seraphin and Trevor Booker –have also contributed. But Booker has been injured a lot of late. Take a look at this link and at the last six years of the fate of the first round picks in the draft as to injuries. It happens.

So two of the three players in our first draft of ownership are not in the lineup this season due to injuries.

We basically did start over, building a roster from scratch and a team that evolved around athleticism, running, and two players – Nene and Wall – who have special skills and can make players around them fit in and play better team ball. Nene has been limited to his minutes this season and has played only fou games with limited minutes.

Jan Vesely and Trevor Ariza are best situated in a running, fast-paced offense. We have now had to slow down play without John Wall in the lineup, and we are asking players to play half court sets. This is a miss -match for their specific skill sets. Jan Vesely is in his second year of development. You always support a young, talented player, who is 7 feet tall, can run and is fundamentally sound. Jan has our support, and is working hard to develop his all-around game. But this is his second year in the NBA, and he is playing without a starting point guard who can push the pace of play. We shouldn’t be so fast to write him off as a player. This is easy to do in media but not something that is smart to do for our franchise.

I support Jan Vesely.

Our draft has yielded many players that have been developing well. Kevin Seraphin is playing many minutes and contributing. And as he develops his game, will be looked at as a player that was a steal in that draft. Chris Singleton, in only his second year, is in our rotation too and playing well and contributing.

Bradley Beal is only 19 years old, is a rookie, and is learning what NBA basketball is all about. But he certainly has shown signs that he will be a key rotation player and a starting player as time goes on in the NBA. He will look better with John Wall in the back court too.

So, we will continue to develop our young players. We will bring back our injured players slowly and appropriately. Their long-term health and wellbeing is very important to them, to our fans and to us. We will work free agency to add to the team. We will try to make astute trades to improve, but we also must develop cohesion, chemistry and structure around a system with so many new and young players in the rotation.

The season to date has been a very tough experience for us all. I have been through tough times before, but this has been a very sobering and humbling experience. I am committed to getting it right and to building a franchise that is respectable, competitive and that wins for our fans.

I also wanted to come to the public support of our young players. I think that is important for them to know that we believe in them.

everything will be magically fixed when Wall comes back from his injury, an injury that nobody can seem to tell when he'll be healthy enough to play

Edited December 3, 2012 by StillUnknown

[RonArtest15]

http://www.tedstake.com/2012/12/02/public-support-for-our-young-players/

everything will be magically fixed when Wall comes back from his injury, an injury that nobody can seem to tell when he'll be healthy enough to play

So, we will continue to develop our young players. We will bring back our injured players slowly and appropriately. Their long-term health and wellbeing is very important to them, to our fans and to us. We will work free agency to add to the team. We will try to make astute trades to improve, but we also must develop cohesion, chemistry and structure around a system with so many new and young players in the rotation.

Interesting...he brings up free agency and trades. Kinda screwed free agency wise due to Ernie's blunders...however, I wonder if something is going to be done to shake up the roster via trade(s) this season?

[Destino]

"Bradley Beal is only 19 years old, is a rookie, and is learning what NBA basketball is all about. But he certainly has shown signs that he will be a key rotation player and a starting player as time goes on in the NBA. He will look better with John Wall in the back court too."

That's not exactly a ringing endorsement. Have we decided Beal's a role player?

[No Excuses]

Just a turd of an owner. I wish he would stop writing blog entries or they wouldn't be posted here. It's infuriating.

[Skin'emAlive]

Well, i think we all expected him to be a consistent player. Not so much a role player or a star. But a guy who could hit his spots, provide athleticism, and grow. A 20 point guy. He wouldnt have even been starting if Wall was healthy. In my opinion though, i would start crawford at the 2, and then switch him to the point when wall ( or whoever ) needs a rest. I dunno. Thats just me. I like Crawford's play at point in small minutes.

[Going Commando]

Ted says some things that beg obvious questions.

- Ves and Ariza are mismatches in a half court game? That's putting it mildly. More accurate would be to say they are completely useless in the half court. What kind of an NBA player is that? What kind of a team building strategy is it to have multiple players become useless when one player gets hurt? And really, why can't we develop some ****ing skills in our players so that they don't become useless in the halfcourt? Why can't we teach Vesely to dribble or shoot? Why can't Booker, Seraphin, or Singleton dribble either for that matter?

- Why do we become one of the worst teams in NBA history when John Wall gets hurt? How is that acceptable team building results? John is not Derrick Rose, and you don't see Chicago completely fall apart when Rose gets hurt.

- Why are we relying on seven players with less than three years of experience to be the core of our team?

- Why haven't we gone after some decent ****ing FAs? Why are we incapable of signing them?

- I find this part totally infuriating:

but we also must develop cohesion, chemistry and structure around a system with so many new and young players in the rotation.

Why are we using the regular season for trial an error to settle on a freaking system? Why didn't we have a plan for a rotation before the season? Don't give me the injuries excuse, it hasn't stopped Minny or Dallas from being competitive. Why don't any of our players have any idea what their roles are supposed to be?

And again, why don't we have a system yet? Why wasn't there one established a long ****ing time ago? What the hell has been the plan all along? Oh my god Ernie has literally been drafting according to the mocks at DX and ESPN hasn't he? There has been no plan has there?

Ted, the people you put in charge have totally and embarrassingly failed. You've got an utterly unqualified coach who made a disaster of the rotation and offense right off the bat. You've got a GM who has established a horrible organization-wide culture; puts no effort or emphasis on player development despite the fact he built the ****ing roster out of young, undeveloped players; drafts without any kind of intelligible, targeted plan for building a team and seems to just collect talent willy nilly; has turned what should be a respectable NBA destination city into a free agency wasteland; and has made two trades that were so obviously awful he should have been fired on the spot (5th for Mike Miller & Shard for Ariza and Oak).

Fire Ernie Ted! Goddammit fire him already!

[Skin'emAlive]

Well said sir. Well said.

[StillUnknown]

Ted makes it sounds like he just heard that NBA teams sometimes have to run a half-court offense.

I need to stay away from his blog, the bull**** is becoming too much.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

Ted isn't going to fire Ernie. We should have seen this coming when Ted retained him; he's just a younger Abe Pollin who doesn't give a **** about "competence" but about giving his buddies posh FO jobs. He was part owner since 1999 or so? Yet he didn't see how Ernie ran the organization into the ground? Clearly Ernie has wormed his way into the good graces of ownership, they probably go out drinking or play racquetball together.

At this point, Leonsis is the worst owner in sports. And I'm not sure that he cares about winning the way Snyder does, and Wizards fans are too downtrodden and used to the incompetence to raise a stink the way Redskins fans did.

Also the clueless basketball media doesn't help. For 10 years ESPN and other outlets have CONSISTENTLY praised Ernie for being one of the best GMs in the NBA despite drafting one all star in his entire career.

[Thinking Skins]

So basically we have another instance of a player misdiagnosed with Booker now out of a few weeks after we thought it was just a strain.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

caught a little of the UCLA game last night. They lost again. To a decent team on the road though. But it's definitely a bit troubling that a team with the #1 or #2 recruiting class has been this bad so far. And they haven't gotten better since Shabazz started playing (2-3 in that span, good win over Georgia, but bad loss to Cal Poly canceling it out)

Shabazz shot 7/12 for 16 points and 4 rebounds. That's right around his averages of 16 & 5.6.

Some things that stand out to me about Shabazz so far:

- Similar to Joe Johnson and James Harden, he's more of a SF type than SG type skill-wise IMO, but because of his height, he's probably going to have to play more at the 2 in the NBA. I think he could play SF against most NBA SFs but big ones like Carmelo are going to give him problems. He looks like a legit 6'5 to 6'6", bigger than Beal. Seems like he has long arms and he's got an NBA ready body bulk wise. Not going to have change his body once he gets to the league. It's eerie how much he looks like James Harden out on the court. All he needs is the beard.

- He scores in a variety of ways but he doesn't seem to be that assertive offensively. When is he going to take over a game and drop 30 on a team? He's willing to play within the team I guess. I was looking for more of an alpha scorer in him. Again, this is really reminiscent of James Harden IMO.

- He stops the ball a bit. He's not selfish, he's an ISO scorer and shooter and not a drive and dish type. Better rebounder than I thought. His rebounding numbers have been pretty good so far but they haven't been consistent.

That's about all I've got. Really haven't seen enough of him to conclude more. It's been a very disappointing start to the season for his team. I don't want to make too much out of these games though. He does have skills and I still like him the best as a fit for us. We need a scorer.

I think Shabazz is good, but not sure he is a franchise changer.

But if you want to blame someone for their struggles, blame Ben Howland and that archaic offense he runs. Its happened with all of his teams at UCLA. Those guys end up being better NBA players than college players because they are free.

[SuperBash]

Good god I've never seen a team murdered like that on sportscenter ever. The Heat/Wizards contrast is a top story. They are laughing and laughing hard

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

^^^ Yeah we just got buried on sportscenter...

This team is honestly the saddest thing in pro sports. Zero talent and zero hope.

All you guys that post these long posts in this thread have my respect.

The Wizards were my first love in sports as a kid...I NEVER missed a game when they had Chris Whitney and Jahidi White.

When we were at our height with Gil, I paid more attention to them than I did the Skins

Now, I honestly couldn't care less. This team is/has basically always been an absolute joke. I honestly do not care and have zero hope. To me, it is worse than the outlook of the 2009 Skins.

I'll still post in here and I'll watch tonight but honestly, this team is pointless.

[abdcskins]

I sort of want to put $55,000 on the Heat -10 tonight. Seems like a slam dunk. They should win by 15 at least.