The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Going Commando]

Well, I'm glad you at least see our side and that was all I was trying to do. I wasn't tying to be a jackass towards you as I respect your basketball knowledge that is far more extensive than mine. It's like the Redskins 2 years ago. We almost feel like we've tried "everything" and nothing has worked. With football winding down and not having at least hockey to watch has me on edge with this team.

I think there is probably nothing worse in the major sports than being a fan of a bad NBA team. You basically have no realistic hope because the league is so unfair. It's pretty expensive to attend in person. And you get to see your team lose over and over again for months whereas in the NFL you've only got to endure at most 16 disappointments a year.

[RonArtest15]

But how do we get that final piece? That's the rub for me. We'd be drafting too late for that to be a difference maker. How do we move Nene? How do we upgrade Wall? I don't see realistic avenues for improvement.

I don't think Harden is going to be as good as you think he will. He doesn't have that one thing that's so special and makes him one of the franchise guys. Dirk has his height and shooting. KG has his athleticism and size. Same for Duncan. Same for Lebron. Wade has his speed and hands and length and body control. Rose has his speed and body control. Kobe has his size and he used to have that athleticism. Durant has his size and athleticism. CP3 has his speed and his strength. Blake has his strength and athleticism. The list goes on. I don't see a quality like that in Harden. Maybe length? He's not that big though.

I think we'd have to hope for drastic improvement from guys like Ves and Singleton to fill in the gaps and for Wall to make a huge leap to be a contender after making that deal. Those are not bets I'd be willing to take any more.

If you have two key players in Harden/Wall (with Nene in the fold), it's a start. When Nene's deal expires, you'll have flexibility to add another piece or trade him in his final year. You can win games with a Wall/Harden backcourt.

In today's NBA, he's a deserving max player. Guys that you are mentioning (outside of Blake Griffin and D.Rose...and I think it's VERY debatable that Blake is a franchise player) are HOFers and I don't think it's particularly fair to compare Harden to them at this point.

Also, all of those guys have help and a lot of it. Harden is doing very well as the main dude this year in Houston. He doesn't have the luxury of playing with KD, Westbrook, Tony Parker, Manu, Ginobili, Rondo, Pierce, Paul, Pau, Kobe, etc. He's doing this essentially on his own after people questioned how he'd handle the transition from a bench player to starter. As I showed with the stats, both he and Wade are VERY similar at the same age. No reason to think that Harden won't continue to trend upwards in his new role.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

But how do we get that final piece? That's the rub for me. We'd be drafting too late for that to be a difference maker. How do we move Nene? How do we upgrade Wall? I don't see realistic avenues for improvement.

I don't think Harden is going to be as good as you think he will. He doesn't have that one thing that's so special and makes him one of the franchise guys. Dirk has his height and shooting. KG has his athleticism and size. Same for Duncan. Same for Lebron. Wade has his speed and hands and length and body control. Rose has his speed and body control. Kobe has his size and he used to have that athleticism. Durant has his size and athleticism. CP3 has his speed and his strength. Blake has his strength and athleticism. The list goes on. I don't see a quality like that in Harden. Maybe length? He's not that big though.

I think we'd have to hope for drastic improvement from guys like Ves and Singleton to fill in the gaps and for Wall to make a huge leap to be a contender after making that deal. Those are not bets I'd be willing to take any more.

I think Wall can still be better than Russell Westbrook - not quite the scorer, but a significantly better passer and a guy who can guard 1s, 2s and even some 3s. Harden's talent isn't the kind of talent that pops off the screen like Wade/Kobe/LeBron, but he's an above-average athlete with excellent fundamentals and is just incredibly efficient. What's encouraging is that while his efficiency, while down from last year, is still quite high. 58% TS% on 28% usage rate playing 39 MPG on a fast paced team is really, really good with not even a credible 2nd option around him is really good. Nene is injured half the time, but Seraphin could pick up the slack to an extent.

And yeah, I think that forcing yourself to be bad doesn't really work well. There's not always (more like very rarely) a superstar you can trade your assets for, and the superstar FAs won't want to come to your city if you're not winning or you don't have a guy with personal ties to other stars. Look at what's happened to Dallas, they tried to get superstars but got rebuffed multiple times despite being a big market. Now they're just saying "forget it, we got ourselves a ring, let's just play out Dirk's career with 50 win seasons as long as he can produce". And the thing with sucking is that you can't assume that the fans will stay interested or the revenue will keep coming in. You have to build your brand in the city, you have to keep the kids interested, because kids are loyal more to winning than to city unless their parents are diehards. When I went to high school, there were actually very few Redskins fans, a bunch were Ravens fans, a bunch liked the Eagles, a few liked the Falcons with Vick or, they were from other areas and kept their home allegiances - and this was literally about 30 minutes driving distance from FedEx itself! Eventually you have to start being somewhat of a factor, you have to build some kind of buzz, otherwise your team will be moribund like the Clippers until you DO get that franchise guy.

Edited December 13, 2012 by The Robert Griffin Experience

[Duckus]

This is not good. Not good at all.

How long until their is a documentary 30 for 30 on this fiasco?

John Wall to have knee re-examined, according to report

Washington Wizards point guard John Wall, who has missed the entire season with a stress injury to his left patella, will have his knee re-examined by noted orthopedic specialist David Altchek in New York on Friday, according to a report on ESPN.com.

The Wizards announced Wall would miss “approximately” eight weeks with the injury on Sept. 28, about 11 weeks ago.

He has been unable to practice, scrimmage or elevate to shoot during that time.

Wall first started feeling discomfort in his left knee about a month before the team announced his injury but continued to train as usual until the pain forced him to have an MRI exam, which came back negative. Three weeks later, with training camp approaching, Wall continued to notice something was wrong with his leg.

He then traveled to New York for his first examination by Altchek, and was diagnosed with the stress injury.

The 2010 No. 1 overall pick has averaged 16.3 points, 8.2 assists and 4.6 rebounds in his first two seasons with the Wizards. The team was constructed to complement his speed and playmaking ability, and several players have struggled in his absence.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wizards-insider/wp/2012/12/13/john-wall-to-have-knee-re-examined-according-to-report/?wprss=rss_wizards-insider

Name the title of John Wall's hypothetical "30 for 30" on this knee injury.

[No Excuses]

I called it back then. They opted not to do surgery. 100% guaranteed they'll do a surgery now. This franchise is too predictable.

[Thinking Skins]

For those that believe the Harden deal would have been worth it, you MUST hold some of these premises:

- Wall is a franchise player

- Harden is a franchise player

- We'd have had the ability to make significant moves to upgrade the team after Harden

- One player coming here could make the difference and/or our FO would not have gotten in the way of making this work

- OR I'm willing to settle for what the Hawks got for the next five + years before we have to start this thing over again.

Pretty much.

[endzone_dave]

Was it ever said what caused John Wall's knee issues?

[Hersh]

But how do we get that final piece? That's the rub for me. We'd be drafting too late for that to be a difference maker. How do we move Nene? How do we upgrade Wall? I don't see realistic avenues for improvement.

Parker and Manu were late firsts or second round picks? Plus, veterans want to play for winning teams. You make it sound impossible but other teams use this formula. Of course it requires a competent GM.

[StillUnknown]

This is not good. Not good at all.

How long until their is a documentary 30 for 30 on this fiasco?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wizards-insider/wp/2012/12/13/john-wall-to-have-knee-re-examined-according-to-report/?wprss=rss_wizards-insider

Name the title of John Wall's hypothetical "30 for 30" on this knee injury.

Wizards don't rate highly enough for a 30/30. Unless they decide to do one on Gil, who at least was an interesting clown, instead of a laughable clown like the rest.

[Dave25]

At this point I hope the Wiz decide to shut down Wall for the year no point on him coming back too early and causing further damage (I still don't understand what the injury actually is). Also Wall coming back would hurt our chances of a top 3 pick not that Grunfield wouldn't pick another bust...

[Thinking Skins]

Was it ever said what caused John Wall's knee issues?

The Curse.

[Going Commando]

At this point I hope the Wiz decide to shut down Wall for the year no point on him coming back too early and causing further damage (I still don't understand what the injury actually is). Also Wall coming back would hurt our chances of a top 3 pick not that Grunfield wouldn't pick another bust...

I'm not even sure who a good GM should pick if we got #1 overall. This year's draft class is totally confusing and pretty lackluster.

Damn the one and done rule. It's totally screwing us over IMO. If not for it, we would have a practical guarantee of getting Parker/Randle/Wiggins. We're probably going to have the worst record.

Now we're probably going to hold our nose and draft Nerlens Noel and pray he develops some skills despite the fact our guys almost never do.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

Wizards don't rate highly enough for a 30/30. Unless they decide to do one on Gil, who at least was an interesting clown, instead of a laughable clown like the rest.

The incompetence of the Wizards deserves its own 30 for 30.

Also, I'm still bitter about what Ernie did to Gil - Gilbert in his prime was a championship-level player and we not only built a crappy team around him that amplified, not masked his flaws, we ruined his career after that.

Edited December 13, 2012 by The Robert Griffin Experience

[SuperBash]

Last 6 games:

15.7 ppg

4.2 rpb

3.7 apg

1.2 stls

42.3%/31.0%/79.2%

107 Otg

103 Dtg

eFG%: 48.1

TS%: 53.1

Brad Beal

[Destino]

Something to chew on. When Blake Griffin missed his entire rookie season here is what was reported:

Clippers' rookie power forward Blake Griffin, the No. 1 overall draft choice in June, has a stress fracture of the left patella, or kneecap, and could miss as much as six weeks of the season.

John Wall's doctor reportedly found the "early stages of a stress injury to his left patella". They expected him to miss, as we all know, 8-12 weeks.

---------- Post added December-13th-2012 at 01:55 PM ----------

Last 6 games:

15.7 ppg

4.2 rpb

3.7 apg

1.2 stls

42.3%/31.0%/79.2%

107 Otg

103 Dtg

eFG%: 48.1

TS%: 53.1

Brad Beal

He finally got the 20 point night I've been waiting for too. I'm starting to think the scouting report on this guy was flawed, he looks better when he's attacking than he does as a pure shooter.

[Going Commando]

Last 6 games:

15.7 ppg

4.2 rpb

3.7 apg

1.2 stls

42.3%/31.0%/79.2%

107 Otg

103 Dtg

eFG%: 48.1

TS%: 53.1

Brad Beal

He's doing a lot better than he was at the beginning of the year. I hope he keeps trending up. Everyday it seems more likely that Wall is going to be gone for a long time. We need Beal to step up and shoulder the offensive load with Crawford. The only players we need to be running offense through are those two and Nene and Seraphin. Everyone else should be chipping in situationally.

Basically, with Wall out we have to put a rush on Beal's development and put a ton more pressure on him than we planned when we drafted him.

My thinking is we need to be figuring out how important a piece he can be going forward. Push him hard and see how he responds. If he can be a legit second or third piece to a franchise player, I'd keep him when we inevitably tear this thing down.

---------- Post added December-13th-2012 at 02:02 PM ----------

He finally got the 20 point night I've been waiting for too. I'm starting to think the scouting report on this guy was flawed, he looks better when he's attacking than he does as a pure shooter.

I agree. Particularly in this offense. We need people to attack because everyone is mostly settling for jumpers.

Beal is much faster and a much better transition finisher than I expected. He needs to be running the floor more.

Rookies just don't shoot well. There are very few exceptions like Kyrie Irving. Most guys just don't know how to take NBA shots yet, even when they have a good IQ. They haven't seen all the situations they need to yet. To be effective early, Beal has to go with what's strong for him right now which is attacking and scoring in transition.

---------- Post added December-13th-2012 at 02:46 PM ----------

Has anyone not given up on this rebuild?

So far as I can tell, the solitary reason not to fire Ernie today is because you are holding out hope for this rebuild and continuity still has a point for us.

But let's assume our performance is so egregious this season that it's absolutely impossible not to fire Ernie (Wouldn't that be nice?). How many losses get us to that point? 60? 65?

If (when) we do reach that point and fire Ernie, what should be done? I know I've asked that before in more general terms, but specifically, how should we tear this down? How do we start our next rebuild? What do you keep? What so you do with any assets we may actually have? What's the plan for the new rebuild?

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Now we're probably going to hold our nose and draft Nerlens Noel and pray he develops some skills despite the fact our guys almost never do.

Nerlens Noel.....

As I said in an earlier post, it's Muhammad/Len for me.

Noel does nothing for me...and as a Hoyas fan, I'm glad he chose UK over G'Town.

He's a role player in the NBA....or at best a Marcus Camby. Maybe......

Edited December 13, 2012 by BRAVEONAWARPATH

[Going Commando]

Nerlens Noel.....

As I said in an earlier post, it's Muhammad/Len for me.

Noel does nothing for me...and as a Hoyas fan, I'm glad he chose UK over G'Town.

He's a role player in the NBA....or at best a Marcus Camby. Maybe......

To me he is basically just a nice raw talent in an awesome frame.

But again, so was Ves.

With this FO I'd seriously consider drafting Rudy Gobert and telling him to stay in France and let them develop him over there and I'll take him when he's fully formed. We've got all the time in the world apparently.

[SuperBash]

Memphis Grizz sign John Hollinger to their front office. I wish we could have done the same. Even he'd be a far better GM that Ernie.

[Going Commando]

Jabari Parker's HS team Simeon was on ESPN tonight. The score was like 3 something to 40 something late in the third quarter when I finally changed it away. I forgot how ****ing boring HS bball is.

[RonBurgundy&Gold]

Gary Williams to coach the Wiz?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/wp/2012/12/07/gary-williams-told-john-feinstein-hed-take-the-wizards-job/

[Destino]

RG3 made Shaqtin a fool. (0:31)

...and of course JaVale made it, he's on every episode.

Edited December 14, 2012 by Destino

[Going Commando]

I'm so glad JaVale's somewhere else. I'd rather be anonymously horrible like we are now.

[Dave25]

Hahaha someone should make a gif of George Karl's face after the latest "McGee"

Edited December 14, 2012 by Dave25

[Fergasun]

Take solace fellow Wizards fans. Why? Because it seems like its 10x more crummy to be a fan of the LA Lakers now. I was listening to the game locally last night and the radio announcers (John Ireland and Mykel Thompson) were going to cry after they got blitzed by the Knicks. What's worse than being a cellar-dweller? Thinking that you've got a dream-team roster, and squeezing out less than .500 basketball... if the Wizards make this game tonight one of these 70-80 point "no team can make a shot" games.... well... they are the Wizards.

But in all seriousness I think being in the Wizards position with a known dreadful roster is better than the Lakers where they think they are good, but playing mediocre and repeating to themselves "we'll be better soon... we'll be better soon... wait till Nash comes in...."