The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Going Commando]

I've seen Zeller play...ok on defense but the problem is he has slow feet and may have trouble guarding faster nba power forwards.

I think his feet are excellent. He stayed in front of Trey Burke and altered his shot in that last win over Michigan where he took over. That play alone showed off outstanding agility and footspeed. I think he's quicker than Nene and you see how well Nene guards both the 4 and 5s. He's a really good positional defender and is really opportunistic at getting steals and forcing turnovers plus he's by far the best PnR big man defender in the class that I've seen. You can't be as good at hedging and recovering as he is without great footspeed and some smarts. Plus you see his natural quickness in the way he runs the floor and also in how blows by guys in the front court.

I think the only problems Zeller has on D can be traced back to strength and length. His length is ordinary and he's an average shot blocker, not someone who dictates shot making in the lane.

Strength wise he's made some progress and is a lot better than he was last year when he was so skinny. But he's still skinny and lacking base strength at an NBA level. Then again, you can only shape your body so much in a year. He's got years left of development before his body is filled out and you see the lack of strength come out against some of his competition. Fully grown guys like Trevor Mbakwe shove him around. But he's also 24 and Zeller is 20. I don't think he's going to have strength problems when he's 23 or 24. His brother Tyler got pretty big by 23. I think Zeller plateaus around that 250-260 range.

And bottom line, Zeller still plays great D despite his limitations. You don't have to be able to block shots or scoop up every rebound to play elite big man D. Look at Marc Gasol. He's an outstanding team defender that just understands positioning and walls off the rim and contests everything in his area, plus he can also step out on the perimeter and stay in front of smaller players.

---------- Post added March-21st-2013 at 11:39 AM ----------

If we pick in the teens, I'd try and trade up for Zeller, Bennett, or Porter if they fell a little.

[Hersh]

The problem with the Wizards and the draft is that there isn't going to be an obvious pick for Ernie so it's a near certainty he will get it wrong. Wall was the clear number 1 when drafted. Beal filled the biggest hole on the team and was a pretty easy pick to make by anyone. This year there won't be that obvious choice and those situations have pretty much been disasters for this organization.

[pjfootballer]

Doesn't matter which position the Wizards are in, in the draft, they usually screw it up anyway, with the exception of Wall.

We've gone 19-16 since the 5-27 start. At this pace, we're looking at a 33-49 record. If we exceed 30 wins, they'll have done better than I thought. I think I said 25-57 at the beginning of the year, so two more wins and they will exceed what I thought they would do, but 33 wins still sucks. But at least there may be a small light at the end of the tunnel, but I'm not getting my hopes up for next year.

"Show Don't Tell"- RUSH

How many times do you hear it?

It goes on all day long

Everyone knows everything

And no one's ever wrong

Until later...

Who can you believe?

It's hard to play it safe

But apart from a few good friends

We don't take anything on faith

Until later...

Show...don't tell...

(Show me, don't tell me)

You've figured out the score

(Show me, don't tell me)

I've heard it all before

(Show me, don't tell me)

I don't care what you say

(Show me, don't tell me)

You can twist perceptions

Reality won't budge

You can raise objections

I will be the judge

And the jury

I'll give it due reflection

Watching from the fence

Give the jury direction

Based on the evidence

I, the jury

(Show me, don't tell me)

Hey, order in the court

(Show me, don't tell me)

Let's try to keep it short

(Show me, don't tell me)

Enough of your demands

(Show me, don't tell me)

Witness take the stand

(Show me, don't tell me)

(Show me, don't tell me)

Hey, order in the court

(Show me, don't tell me)

Let's try to keep it short

(Show me, don't tell me)

I don't care what you say

(Show me, don't tell me)

Let's see exhibit A

[Destino]

There is no player in this draft that was going to change this team in the short term. I don't care if they fall in the draft. I'd rather they build confidence and win. They've been playing much better for half a season now, not just their usual final 10 or so games. This team is a great deal better than the crap they were the last two years.

We should be more worried about free agency and trades than the draft. Ernie has two expiring deals for two players that have contributed greatly to handle next season. He could easily mess everything up.

[Going Commando]

Games that interest me today:

- Michigan St on CBS at 12:15 (Harris)

- Pittsburgh on TBS at 1:40 (Adams)

- Gonzaga on CBS at 4:15 (Olynyk)

- Oklahoma St. on TNT at 4:40 (Smart)

- Michigan on CBS at 7:15 (Burke & Robinson)

- UNLV on TRU tv at 7:27 (Bennett)

---------- Post added March-21st-2013 at 12:24 PM ----------

I would love to see this team to avoid 50 losses.

[Skins199021]

Cody Zeller is nothing more than a bench player in my eyes at the NBA level. Especially since that guy was correct he gets thrown around by bigger guys. I rather have Len, more skilled, but raw at the same time. Just needs to put on a little more weight. I like Olynyk too, he is like what we wanted Vesely to be.

[Going Commando]

I think all of the top prospects in this year's class in the tourney stand to reap a huge benefit from going on a deep run. Zeller's path to the final four is grueling. McLemore could shine having to get through a similarly tough spate. Bennett can make himself a household name by winning several games and beating Indiana. Marcus Smart has a great opportunity to make a deep run because his region is weak with NBA talent and I think Louisville and Duke are being heavily overrated.

Olynyk is practically the only NBA caliber player in his entire region. If he loses early, I think that's a stain on him.

But I think no one stands to benefit more form a deep tourney run than Shabazz. If he powered his hobbled team to a final four facing the absolute murderer's row he'd have to get through, he would be considered the no brainer #1 pick. First Minny (very tough matchup given how athletic they are and their coach is Tubby Smith). Then he'd have to beat Florida, Georgetown, and Kansas or Michigan most likely. All four of those teams are better than the #1 and #2 seeds from the Louisville and Gonzaga regions IMO. It'd be epic. And it would destroy my bracket. I would love to see him go on a complete tear and show his quality.

---------- Post added March-21st-2013 at 01:03 PM ----------

Cody Zeller is nothing more than a bench player in my eyes at the NBA level. Especially since that guy was correct he gets thrown around by bigger guys. I rather have Len, more skilled, but raw at the same time. Just needs to put on a little more weight. I like Olynyk too, he is like what we wanted Vesely to be.

Len is even weaker than Zeller and got thrown around by guys who will probably be SFs in the NBA like James McAdoo. Len is also nowhere near as good a basketball player as Zeller, so there's that.

Olynyk is alright. He's older than the other guys though and a lot slower. He's not very athletic but he's skilled. I think he'll be a horrible defender in the NBA which will keep him on the bench unless he becomes an outrageously good shooter and offensive player like Dirk. I think he can definitely help an NBA team, but not as much as Zeller or Len could. Zeller is a winner and I think he'll be a terrific big man and fringe star player in the NBA like Noah/Aldridge/Nene/Zbo are. None of those guys are superstars that you can build a contender around but all are super skilled bigs that can be big contributors to winners.

[Gator Bait]

I think all of the top prospects in this year's class in the tourney stand to reap a huge benefit from going on a deep run. Zeller's path to the final four is grueling. McLemore could shine having to get through a similarly tough spate. Bennett can make himself a household name by winning several games and beating Indiana. Marcus Smart has a great opportunity to make a deep run because his region is weak with NBA talent and I think Louisville and Duke are being heavily overrated.

I don't even think Smart gets passed the first round....Oregon is going to beat Ok State. How is Louisville and Duke overrated? Especially Duke! They are a 2 seed and could have very well been a 1 seed.

[Going Commando]

I don't even think Smart gets passed the first round....Oregon is going to beat Ok State. How is Louisville and Duke overrated? Especially Duke! They are a 2 seed and could have very well been a 1 seed.

Marcus Smart finds a way to win. He's beaten better teams than Oregon this year, although Oregon is a ridiculously good 12 seed. I don't think Duke is that good. I think the ACC was pretty weak this year and Duke was beating up on a lot of flawed teams. I don't think Seth Curry or Ryan Kelly are that great and I think Mason Plumlee only looks as good as he does because he's older than John Wall and DeMarcus Cousins and he gets to play against a lot of 18 and 19 year olds. Louisville doesn't really have a single player that's going to be anything in the NBA IMO and I think they're being overrated by their performance in the conference tournament. The best teams are usually powered by at least one future NBA baller. The best Louisville has is Gorgui Dieng I guess, and he's 23 and not really going to do anything in the NBA.

Most years the top teams have a lotto pick lock, even if they're just freshmen or sophomores: Derrick Rose powering Memphis to the final four. John Wall and DeMarcus Cousins taking Kentucky to the elite 8. Anthony Davis and MKG winning a championship against a team that TRob led to the final. Florida winning with Horford and Noah. UCLA getting to a final four with Love and Westbrook.

The best and most talented players make a big difference in the tourney format because you don't get the preparation time you normally do during the regular season and you're playing unfamiliar opponents. Guys just go out and ball and it's a fast paced game where individual playmakers can really have an impact. That's why I think teams like Georgetown, Michigan, Kansas, OK St., UNLV, and Indiana have a better chance of making a deep run than Louisville and Duke and a lot of the other top three seeds. They've got the best players in the country on their teams.

---------- Post added March-21st-2013 at 02:04 PM ----------

Last year I picked 7 out of the 8 elite 8 teams and I got the final right simply by picking the teams with the most NBA caliber talent. I'm trying it again this year to see how I do. The lotto pick locks don't always go far in the tourney. But the teams that do go far tend to have at least one really good player who looks like a future NBA starter at least. Not always, but more often than not.

Edited March 21, 2013 by stevemcqueen1

[Gator Bait]

Marcus Smart finds a way to win. He's beaten better teams than Oregon this year, although Oregon is a ridiculously good 12 seed. I don't think Duke is that good. I think the ACC was pretty weak this year and Duke was beating up on a lot of flawed teams. I don't think Seth Curry or Ryan Kelly are that great and I think Mason Plumlee only looks as good as he does because he's older than John Wall and DeMarcus Cousins and he gets to play against a lot of 18 and 19 year olds. Louisville doesn't really have a single player that's going to be anything in the NBA IMO and I think they're being overrated by their performance in the conference tournament. The best teams are usually powered by at least one future NBA baller. The best Louisville has is Gorgui Dieng I guess, and he's 23 and not really going to do anything in the NBA.

Most years the top teams have a lotto pick lock, even if they're just freshmen or sophomores: Derrick Rose powering Memphis to the final four. John Wall and DeMarcus Cousins taking Kentucky to the elite 8. Anthony Davis and MKG winning a championship against a team that TRob led to the final. Florida winning with Horford and Noah. UCLA getting to a final four with Love and Westbrook.

The best and most talented players make a big difference in the tourney format because you don't get the preparation time you normally do during the regular season and you're playing unfamiliar opponents. Guys just go out and ball and it's a fast paced game where individual playmakers can really have an impact. That's why I think teams like Georgetown, Michigan, Kansas, OK St., UNLV, and Indiana have a better chance of making a deep run than Louisville and Duke and a lot of the other top three seeds. They've got the best players in the country on their teams.

Ryan Kelly is a really good college player...can play inside or out. Plumlee has been good since he came to school; he got decent playing time as a Freshman on one of the best teams in the country and played a vital role in the national championship. Duke might have played in the ACC, but they have 9 wins over tournament teams (including #1 seed Louisville and #2 seed Ohio State)..... They are not overrated at all.

As far as having NBA talent...that has never mattered in the NCAA....Duke is a perfect example. Their past two national championship teams didn't have any major NBA talent. Look at the Butler teams that made the final 4...yeah, they had Gordon Hayward, but it isn't like he is a super star at the next level. Look at teams like George Mason and VCU that went to the final 4. You don't have to have big names to win in college basketball.

for the record...I've got Indiana over Ohio State for the NC

[Destino]

Cody Zeller is nothing more than a bench player in my eyes at the NBA level. Especially since that guy was correct he gets thrown around by bigger guys. I rather have Len, more skilled, but raw at the same time. Just needs to put on a little more weight. I like Olynyk too, he is like what we wanted Vesely to be.

I don't think Zeller, Len, or Olynyk are automatically bench players in the NBA. I think all of them could start within three years in the right situation, mostly because there are a lot of mediocre and overpriced centers in the NBA. None of them look like star players to me. I think Zeller has a chance to be a pretty good offensive player in the NBA because he aggressively gets to spots on the floor where he can shield the ball with him body and in doing so forces players to go through him to contest. He also has a variety finishes around the basket and that translates well to the NBA. He has a big time motor and he stars insanely active which is always a plus. Those short arms will hurt him in iso situations in the NBA on both sides of the floor.

Len's combination of length, skills, and speed (for a center) make him a great choice for any team that wants to run plays to get him 15 foot jump shots. The Wizards, as an example, run that play often for Nene and Okafor. I like that he defends without leaping at the ball or jumping at shot fakes. In college that doesn't look great, in the NBA it's the opposite and helps. Len is also a willing passer and looks for guys in the interior when the defense rotates to him. He plays for a Maryland team that doesn't run any plays for him, at least not when I've watched. That team does a lot of standing around and waiting for their perimeter players to create. Hard to say what he'd look like playing in an offense that's a little more advanced. He does lack a great deal of strength and is the weakest of the three.

Olynyk is the strongest of the three and he's essentially good at everything. He can shoot well, score around the basket well, and he moves very well without the ball. The problem with him is simple: he has zero explosiveness. While he runs the floor well he has not strong burst around the basket and can't jump. The concern here is that in the NBA every big man he faces will likely be as strong as he is and significantly faster. Can that work? Kosta Koufos and Nikola Pekovic say yes. It's the stuff that makes you an allstar but a solid role playing center can be found in players that have very little explosiveness but do have strength and high BBIQ.

In summary I don't see a star or a certain starter in any of the three but they all could start in the right situations and they don't need a great deal of development to do so. Noel and Bennett have much higher potential than any of these three. They also have their own red flags.

Edited March 21, 2013 by Destino

[Going Commando]

Ryan Kelly is a really good college player...can play inside or out. Plumlee has been good since he came to school; he got decent playing time as a Freshman on one of the best teams in the country and played a vital role in the national championship. Duke might have played in the ACC, but they have 9 wins over tournament teams (including #1 seed Louisville and #2 seed Ohio State)..... They are not overrated at all.

As far as having NBA talent...that has never mattered in the NCAA....Duke is a perfect example. Their past two national championship teams didn't have any major NBA talent. Look at the Butler teams that made the final 4...yeah, they had Gordon Hayward, but it isn't like he is a super star at the next level. Look at teams like George Mason and VCU that went to the final 4. You don't have to have big names to win in college basketball.

for the record...I've got Indiana over Ohio State for the NC

Duke's wins over Louisville and Ohio State don't impress me that much because I don't think those teams are that good. Neither of them have any big time players, Dieng is it and he's a future back up in the NBA. The only time they played other teams with a future NBA guy were Miami, UNC, and Maryland. UNC choked the regular season game and it's not like McAdoo is a lottery pick. Miami killed them the first time they played and almost beat them at Cameron. And Shane Larkin probably isn't a lotto pick either. And Maryland beat them two out of three times. Duke doesn't have high quality talent and they don't have many good wins against high quality talent.

Gordon Hayward was a lottery pick too. And that was a weak NCAA crop so there weren't many teams that had future NBA guys in the tourney. Normal years with decent NCAA talent typically see the future NBA starters lead teams on good runs.

I've got Indiana, Kansas, OK St., and Ohio St. as my final for and Indiana over OK St. I picked Ohio St. even though they don't really have any NBA caliber talent this year because the region was weak and I don't trust Gonzaga. Olynyk is the only potential lotto pick in that entire region.

[Gator Bait]

Duke's wins over Louisville and Ohio State don't impress me that much because I don't think those teams are that good. Neither of them have any big time players, Dieng is it and he's a future back up in the NBA. The only time they played other teams with a future NBA guy were Miami, UNC, and Maryland. UNC choked the regular season game and it's not like McAdoo is a lottery pick. Miami killed them the first time they played and almost beat them at Cameron. And Shane Larkin probably isn't a lotto pick either. And Maryland beat them two out of three times. Duke doesn't have high quality talent and they don't have many good wins against high quality talent.

Gordon Hayward was a lottery pick too. And that was a weak NCAA crop so there weren't many teams that had future NBA guys in the tourney. Normal years with decent NCAA talent typically see the future NBA starters lead teams on good runs.

I've got Indiana, Kansas, OK St., and Ohio St. as my final for and Indiana over OK St. I picked Ohio St. even though they don't really have any NBA caliber talent this year because the region was weak and I don't trust Gonzaga. Olynyk is the only potential lotto pick in that entire region.

you are missing the point....college basketball is just like college football and the NFL...it's more about the coaches than the player. More about a team game rather than a super star. NBA is a superstar driven league...college basketball is all about coaches, strategy, and how well a team plays together.

[Going Commando]

you are missing the point....college basketball is just like college football and the NFL...it's more about the coaches than the player. More about a team game rather than a super star. NBA is a superstar driven league...college basketball is all about coaches, strategy, and how well a team plays together.

Well you were right about Oregon and OK St. My bracket is already ****ed.

I should have seen Oregon coming. The selection committee was crazy to put the Pac 12 winner at a 12 seed. They were a top 25 team a week or two ago. They were closer to a 5 seed than a 12 seed.

Ah well, I want to see how my theory does with the rest of my picks.

My point acknowledges that coaches and experience make a huge difference in CBB... in the regular season. But in the tourney, you don't get as much time to practice and game plan because there is only a day in between the games. So talent just shines out and freshmen teams that are super talented can go deep. Talented guards that can dribble penetrate and score off the bounce are super valuable in the tourney and usually those kinds of players are lotto picks.

[Gator Bait]

Well you were right about Oregon and OK St. My bracket is already ****ed.

I should have seen Oregon coming. The selection committee was crazy to put the Pac 12 winner at a 12 seed. They were a top 25 team a week or two ago. They were closer to a 5 seed than a 12 seed.

Ah well, I want to see how my theory does with the rest of my picks.

My point acknowledges that coaches and experience make a huge difference in CBB... in the regular season. But in the tourney, you don't get as much time to practice and game plan because there is only a day in between the games. So talent just shines out and freshmen teams that are super talented can go deep. Talented guards that can dribble penetrate and score off the bounce are super valuable in the tourney and usually those kinds of players are lotto picks.

This Oregon team could be a major bracket buster. I saw that as soon as I saw how ridiculous their seeding was. I'm really excited to see the rest of the South bracket unfold.....I don't understand how the South could be such a difficult bracket and the West so weak. VCU vs. Michigan has the makings of the best game in the tournament....those Michigan guards against the full court press of VCU.

[Samuels]

I got G'Town over Duke in the NC. My final 4 is GTOWN,Indiana,OSU and Duke.

The Wiz are gonna end up drafting between 8-11. I hope Porter tests poorly and he falls or maybe Nerlens comes out and falls because of the ACL.

[Gator Bait]

I got G'Town over Duke in the NC. My final 4 is GTOWN,Indiana,OSU and Duke.

The Wiz are gonna end up drafting between 8-11. I hope Porter tests poorly and he falls or maybe Nerlens comes out and falls because of the ACL.

I seriously doubt either Porter or Noel falls passed 8, but I'm with you....those are two of the guys I'd like to get. I'm hoping we continue to win and get lucky in the lottery.

I like your picks...I'm a Duke fan, so I didn't pick them to go to the NC (because I think that is a jinx) but if Seth Curry keeps playing like this....they may make it to the NC.

Speaking of Seth...he would be a good guy to draft with one of our 2nd round picks.

Edited March 22, 2013 by Gator Bait

[SuperBash]

I seriously doubt either Porter or Noel falls passed 8, but I'm with you....those are two of the guys I'd like to get. I'm hoping we continue to win and get lucky in the lottery.

I like your picks...I'm a Duke fan, so I didn't pick them to go to the NC (because I think that is a jinx) but if Seth Curry keeps playing like this....they may make it to the NC.

Speaking of Seth...he would be a good guy to draft with one of our 2nd round picks.

I was just coming here to say that about Seth. My ideal draft is Porter/Shabbazz (if he measures out well) in the first then MBakwa and Seth Curry in the 2nd

[Gator Bait]

I like how we can talk about whatever we want in this thread without getting bum rushed by a moderator or someone saying we are posting in the wrong forum. This is a great thread; I'm excited to see what it looks like when our team is actually good again! Most of the people from the mid 2000s playoff teams seam to be gone.

---------- Post added March-22nd-2013 at 03:14 PM ----------

I was just coming here to say that about Seth. My ideal draft is Porter/Shabbazz (if he measures out well) in the first then MBakwa and Seth Curry in the 2nd

I think Seth and Kelly are ideal 2nd round picks....large possible reward with no risk (most 2nd round picks don't pan out). Kelly reminds me of a very poor man's Kevin Love and Curry is like a poor man's version of his brother. Could be a decent 6th man (that's what I see as his ceiling)

[StillUnknown]

Haven't watched much college ball this year so I was planning on using the tourney to get longer looks at some these prospects.

Bennett, Smart, & Porter all gone after the first game.

---------- Post added March-22nd-2013 at 10:08 PM ----------

Another start for Jason Collins.......

Edited March 23, 2013 by StillUnknown

[Renegade7]

Did you say Jason Collins starting? Man, perfect timing for the Kobe"Gasol emotional return at the staple center...

[Destino]

Ugly start. Collins is another one of those Wittman rotations that make no sense.

---------- Post added March-22nd-2013 at 10:54 PM ----------

The defense without Okafor appears to be significantly worse.

[StillUnknown]

Ugly start. Collins is another one of those Wittman rotations that make no sense.

Collins wears #98, he doesn't even expect to play, let alone start.

---------- Post added March-22nd-2013 at 11:12 PM ----------

Cartier Martin is awful, just turrible.

[Destino]

Collins wears #98, he doesn't even expect to play, let alone start.

Just be glad he's not starting Booker at center. He hasn't tried that yet and you know he's just dying to considering he's tried just about every stupid lineup imaginable this season.

[SuperBash]

Yeah...we need a young true C

---------- Post added March-22nd-2013 at 11:22 PM ----------

Chad Ford ‏@chadfordinsider 2m

McLemore & Muhammad a combined 1-for-11 in the 1st half. Both KU & UCLA down at the half. Lottery GMs gently weep