The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[CrypticVillain]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_606w/WashingtonPost/Content/Blogs/dc-sports-bog/StandingArt/wittmanwins0112c.jpg?uuid=g9HygEoyEeG2vqYQAgi2LQ

Well played. :applause:

He better not be here next year....

[SuperBash]

Lord knows we could use a player whose focus is on offensive, rather than defense.

[nuposse87]

I just think with the draft being so weak and there also being so many questions about talent in the top10, I wouldn't trip if the Wizards did take him #3 overall (because that's where we'll be drafting LOL). This is one of the few drafts where there isn't an unquestioned #1 overall and there are about 4 guys who are (currently) in that top pick mix. If we trade back, I don't think there is any guarantee he'll still be on the board due to the strange nature of 2013 draft.

You made a great point about Milsap as well.

Well, I actually think that Shabazz, McLemore and Noel have all-star potential, after that it just seems like 4-14 is kind of a crapshoot. The players in that range could all be good starters but I think players back into the early 20 range have the same pedigree. Tony Mitchell is essentially the same player as Bennett (sans the 3pt %) and could be had 15 or later, wouldn't you say that is better value? I think are ways to make this draft work even if you aren't in the top 3, but a lot of it is predicated on luck. Personally I see us picking 7-8 by years end. Probably 6-7th record wise with some lucky ass team leapfrogging us in the lottery. Ideally I want us to get another late lottery pick and acquire:

1st lottery pick: Otto Porter

Later lottery pick: Best developmental Center available (Maybe Gobert?)

2nd round:

Kadji and Snaer.

I think there are people that can contribute early and get minutes over our current players. Inflate their value and use them as trade chips for the '14 trade deadline.

[Going Commando]

I thought I posted a correction for you but I never hit the post button. I have been doing that a lot lately... Stupid job.

Anyways, I like Noel. The one thing I see about him from that highlight tape and the couple of games I saw this year, he has some good basketball IQ. Usually you see a tall person dominate and think to yourself that he wouldn't be able to play if he wasn't so tall. I don't think that with Nerlens Noel...

One thing is for sure, if we get a top three pick this year, I think we will be lucky to have Noel, Shabazz, or Zeller.

I agree with you. I think he's got a high BBall IQ. You'll see him get a lot of blocks but a lot of those are not weakside blocks on unsuspecting defenders. He's blocking his man trying to post him up or score around the basket, just uncoiling really quickly and playing with superior anticipation. He gets a ton of steals for a big man and that doesn't happen unless he's got a good IQ and super quick hands IMO.

You also see it come out on the offensive end with some of his passing. He does a good job passing from the high post and from the top of the key. Reminds me of Gasol or Noah in how he can facilitate the offense that way and use his height to see the whole floor and whip passes around. He can stuff the whole box score.

My top three is the same as yours. I don't want to over-think things too much and start talking myself out of the three guys who were the obvious cream of the class before the year even started. Those guys are the stars of college BBall and/or the top HS players in the country. I think each of them have extremely valuable NBA potential.

1a.) Shabazz

1b.) Noel

3.) Zeller

The only guy I see as having the ability to climb into that top tier is Len. Len's upside is enormous. If he has a dominant home stretch and NCAA tournament I could see him going very high because it will quiet a lot of the concerns with him playing at a consistently high level. 7'1 with a 7'7 wingspan and that kind of agility is special.

---------- Post added January-25th-2013 at 02:42 PM ----------

I just think with the draft being so weak and there also being so many questions about talent in the top10, I wouldn't trip if the Wizards did take him #3 overall (because that's where we'll be drafting LOL). This is one of the few drafts where there isn't an unquestioned #1 overall and there are about 4 guys who are (currently) in that top pick mix. If we trade back, I don't think there is any guarantee he'll still be on the board due to the strange nature of 2013 draft.

You made a great point about Milsap as well.

I think it's a two man race for first overall. I also think it's a decent class--mediocre compared to last year but far better than 2011.

By the time the draft gets here, people will realize Shabazz and Noel are the two best prospects in the class IMO. Shabazz is the best perimeter player and Noel is the best mix of upside and consistent excellence among the bigs.

I think people are way too high on McLemore right now because Kansas is winning and he's the most visible player on the team because of his speed and his leaping ability and thunderous dunks. But if people take a big picture look, a SG with handles and lateral agility as limited as him pretty much has a glass ceiling that will keep him from becoming an All Star unless he falls into the most ideal team situations.

Shabazz is a much better NBA prospect than McLemore. He's got a terrific handle and excels scoring off the dribble. He has a complete offensive tool box. He can post up and score with that sick jump hook. He can beat people to the rim with his first step and his explosiveness and he's very strong, very good finisher through contact. He can pull up and knock down shots from mid range. He can also play off the ball and thrive in catch and shoot situations and has 3 PT range.

I also think people are too low on Zeller and Noel. Noel has elite physical tools and is pretty much as good a defensive prospect as Anthony Davis was. Near enough anyway. His handles and his shot aren't as developed as Davis's were, which is why he won't be a slam dunk first overall pick like Davis was. He also isn't quite as good and consistent a rebounder as Davis. But he's probably got a better frame than Davis and has the ability to grow into a true 5 IMO. And I think Zeller is a gifted scoring 5 with higher upside than Brook Lopez. He's got legit 5 man size and he's got superior quickness and scoring instincts for the position. Very superior instincts overall. Terrific footwork that allows him to find all kinds of space around the block and along the baseline. And he's got an outstanding feel for the basketball in his hands--huge array of finishes with both hands. Good FT shooter, useful since he can get to the line a ton. He's amazingly efficient and looks like he can be a big scorer at the next level and shoot for very high %s, probably approach 60% from the field.

If you're talking about a potential 18 PPG C with that kind of efficiency and let's say ~7 RPG, that's an All Star.

I like Bennett but I think he lacks a true position in the NBA. Similar problem to Derrick Williams. Not quick enough to be a true 3 and full time wing player. Not tall enough and no back to basket game to hack it full time at the 4 IMO. I think Millsap is a pretty good comparison but, good as he is, Millsap isn't really an All Star and isn't top 3 pick material. Will Bennett be a Paul Millsap or will he be a Larry Johnson? I don't know. That's why I'm pretty sure I would rather draft a true 5 like Noel, Zeller, or Len than take that risk on Bennett.

[nuposse87]

You honestly think Zeller Has all-star potential? I mean I guess everyone has "all-star potential" but that is a bit of a reach considering his physical handicap. Zeller is almost inbetween positions as well. He has the same liabilities as Bennett. Zeller isn't strong or big enough to guard 5s and he isn't quick or explosive enough to dominate today's 4s.

He's a poor mans LMA best case with T-rex arms, and LMA can't even catch break from the coaches. Brook Lopez's career arc will surpass Zeller's If I had to guess. Zeller is 6-11.5 in shoes, so probably really 6'10. With a 6-8 wingspan, and a rather prominent neck. I doubt his standing reach surpasses the average NBA 4 by THAT much. His best case scenario is being the first big off the bench on a contender. Also, consider this, while his numbers are nice, he's only averaging 0.8 points more and 1.6 more rebounds. That should be kind of a signal, if he really is as talented as some would think, he should have made some more strides (although to maintain .60+ FG% is commendable)

[Going Commando]

You honestly think Zeller Has all-star potential? I mean I guess everyone has "all-star potential" but that is a bit of a reach considering his physical handicap. Zeller is almost inbetween positions as well. He has the same liabilities as Bennett. Zeller isn't strong or big enough to guard 5s and he isn't quick or explosive enough to dominate today's 4s.

He's a poor mans LMA best case with T-rex arms, and LMA can't even catch break from the coaches. Brook Lopez's career arc will surpass Zeller's If I had to guess. Zeller is 6-11.5 in shoes, so probably really 6'10. With a 6-8 wingspan, and a rather prominent neck. I doubt his standing reach surpasses the average NBA 4 by THAT much. His best case scenario is being the first big off the bench on a contender. Also, consider this, while his numbers are nice, he's only averaging 0.8 points more and 1.6 more rebounds. That should be kind of a signal, if he really is as talented as some would think, he should have made some more strides (although to maintain .60+ FG% is commendable)

Zeller is better than Lopez because he's a hell of a lot quicker and more athletic than Lopez. Lopez never had a first overall pedigree or even top 3 pedigree like Zeller.

I think you've got a couple of misconceptions about Zeller. First, I don't see what you're getting at trying to figure out his height w/o shoes. He'll be playing his games in shoes. Blake Griffin is just over 6'8 w/o shoes but height isn't a problem for him at all. Blake Griffin also only has an 8'9 standing reach. I think Zeller will probably be at least that long, probably longer.

Also, I wouldn't trust those reports about him having a 6'8 wingspan. Whenever the T Rex arms complaint comes up and people talk about a player having much shorter arms than his height, it's almost always wrong. Case in point Blake Griffin.

Zeller also isn't a tweener. He's a true center that maybe you play some PF if he develops a mid range jumper because you want to play up mismatches. In that case, him being a tweener would be a positive because of a completeness of skill set.

Bennett being a tweener is for negative reasons. Not fast enough to be a true wing and not big or skilled enough with his back to the basket to be a true big man.

I don't think everyone has All Star potential like Zeller. I don't think McLemore or Bennett do. Zeller is a big time scoring 5. Very rare.

[Gator Bait]

Last time we used a lottery pick in a weak draft, we came away with Vesely. We need to trade that pick in a package to get Rudy Gay. Gay will fit in well with this team and we will be dangerous on the wings.

Still don't understand all the love for Cousins. He makes horrible decisions. You can have all the potential in the world, but when you repeatedly make horrible mistakes, act like a headcase, have horrible character, and shoot 40% from the field as a center.....I want no part. The dude is a bum and unless he matures over night or gets a hell of a coach (in which he buys into) the guy will never reach his potential.

[Destino]

Bennett is in poor shape and lacks effort on defense. That my friends is a large frantically waving red flag for any player going to the wizards. Wittman is poison to big men generally IMO but he's also the guy that told Love not to shoot threes and I doubt he'd even play Bennett until he had thoroughly destroyed him.

[nuposse87]

Zeller is better than Lopez because he's a hell of a lot quicker and more athletic than Lopez. Lopez never had a first overall pedigree or even top 3 pedigree like Zeller.

I think you've got a couple of misconceptions about Zeller. First, I don't see what you're getting at trying to figure out his height w/o shoes. He'll be playing his games in shoes. Blake Griffin is just over 6'8 w/o shoes but height isn't a problem for him at all. Blake Griffin also only has an 8'9 standing reach. I think Zeller will probably be at least that long, probably longer.

Also, I wouldn't trust those reports about him having a 6'8 wingspan. Whenever the T Rex arms complaint comes up and people talk about a player having much shorter arms than his height, it's almost always wrong. Case in point Blake Griffin.

Zeller also isn't a tweener. He's a true center that maybe you play some PF if he develops a mid range jumper because you want to play up mismatches. In that case, him being a tweener would be a positive because of a completeness of skill set.

Bennett being a tweener is for negative reasons. Not fast enough to be a true wing and not big or skilled enough with his back to the basket to be a true big man.

I don't think everyone has All Star potential like Zeller. I don't think McLemore or Bennett do. Zeller is a big time scoring 5. Very rare.

Zeller is not better then Lopez, not until you give me some reasoning other than you say he is.

Regarding the Blake comparison, that is a terrible one. Blake's entire game is predicated on absurd levels of athleticism (which Zeller cannot even come close to touching). He makes up for t-rex arms by jumping over the standing reach of most big men. Zeller cannot do that. He is not as fast as Blake nor is he as big. And Blake's standing reach will become a big problem unless he gets some skill later in his career. I doubt Zeller will get the superstar calls that Blake gets as well, so while he does shoot well from the FT line, it will probably be moot. So the the t-rex arm thing is completely fair as Zeller's game is not above the rim, as much as you may think it is. He isn't exactly playing against legit NBA size in college.

As I've pointed out, his game is tweenerish, but in todays NBA he might be able to get away with that. I'm going to assume until the combine he is vastly inferior standing reach for a Center and the lack of elite athleticism will not allow him to overcome that. He isn't quicker than 4s and I doubt he's stronger than some of the more stout 4s in todays NBA, Nene, Blake, LMA, Faried, etc...

His only advantage may be a pick and pop game. That makes him NBA ready, he has the lowest ceiling of any player considered in the top 5.

McLemore has more potential then Beal, and I love Beal. It is down right asinine to think Zeller as more potential then McLemore.

Zeller needs to develop a very reliable back-to-the-basket game in order to survive in this league. That and add some more weight, which will more than likely cost him some of his average athleticism.

---------- Post added January-25th-2013 at 05:06 PM ----------

Last time we used a lottery pick in a weak draft, we came away with Vesely. We need to trade that pick in a package to get Rudy Gay. Gay will fit in well with this team and we will be dangerous on the wings.

Still don't understand all the love for Cousins. He makes horrible decisions. You can have all the potential in the world, but when you repeatedly make horrible mistakes, act like a headcase, have horrible character, and shoot 40% from the field as a center.....I want no part. The dude is a bum and unless he matures over night or gets a hell of a coach (in which he buys into) the guy will never reach his potential.

So you want a SF, who is horrendously overpaid, who makes the same bad decisions a veteran team...whose basically shown all the upside he has...right...

Cousins is a headcase, but he is absolutely salvageable. I think his shooting around the rim is elite, need to find the stats, I could be wrong. Not to mention he's a solid post defender and an elite re bounder, something this team desperately needs. Not to mention his low post passing ability...If Gay was making 10 mil a year, I guess he'd be worth it...but he'll be making 19 mil...in 2 years if i'm not mistaken...that is just stupid money for his level of production.

Edited January 25, 2013 by nuposse87

[Destino]

I think an ideal body allows NBA projections to certain attributes to be more easily made. Drummond for instance was a good rebounder and he was huge, in the NBA he's still both of those things. When bigs are weaker, smaller, or reliant on finesse they are harder to predict. That is what creates the question marks for Zeller. He's thin, relies on under the basket scoring moves, and he's got a reach issue. I like the fact that he has so many moves around the basket and knows how to use contact to shield the ball but will that work against much stronger and heavier NBA bigs. That's hard to say.

Noel is a rail but he's a rebounder, defender, and he can jump out of the gym. If he has the work ethic in the weight room he should be solid, but the little offense he has will take a hit in the NBA. If he ever becomes an offensive threat it will be many years later. Like 5 years or more. Is that worth a top 5 pick? Those types of bigs rarely stay with the same team for long.

So my question is what are the safest bets in this draft or the highest upside with a realistically shorter learning curve. Who, if anyone, becomes a good NBA starter or allstar within 3 years? The potential allstars in this draft seem to be Shabazz and Mclemore and both of them at SG. I don't think Shabazz stays at SF in the NBA and I think most scouts agree at this point. The bigs have skills but an awful lot of question marks.

Edited January 25, 2013 by Destino

[nuposse87]

I think an ideal body allows NBA projections to certain attributes to be more easily made. Drummond for instance was a good rebounder and he was huge, in the NBA he's still both of those things. When bigs are weaker, smaller, or reliant on finesse they are harder to predict. That is what creates the question marks for Zeller. He's thin, relies on under the basket scoring moves, and he's got a reach issue. I like the fact that he has so many moves around the basket and knows how to use contact to shield the ball but will that work against much stronger and heavier NBA bigs. That's hard to say.

Noel is a rail but he's a rebounder, defender, and he can jump out of the gym. If he has the work ethic in the weight room he should be solid, but the little offense he has will take a hit in the NBA. If he ever becomes an offensive threat it will be many years later. Like 5 years or more. Is that worth a top 5 pick? Those types of bigs rarely stay with the same team for long.

So my question is what are the safest bets in this draft or the highest upside with a realistically shorter learning curve. Who, if anyone, becomes a good NBA starter or allstar within 3 years? The potential allstars in this draft seem to be Shabazz and Mclemore and both of them at SG. I don't think Shabazz stays at SF in the NBA and I think most scouts agree at this point. The bigs have skills but an awful lot of question marks.

Thats a legitimate critique of Zeller, I'm overly cautious regarding him but I just don't see the upside, especially in the top 5. In most decent drafts he looks like a borderline lottery pick to me.

If you told me who'd be most impactful 3 years from now, hands down Noel. He has a skill he can come in and utilize from day one. He's a fairly competent rim protector and is getting pretty good on the boards. I see McLemore being a cross of Rip Hamilton and a poor man's Wade. That's a solid NBA SG, he has more potential the Beal, but I think Beal is more cerebral player and will put it altogether quicker in their respective career arcs.

I've been trying to find the perfect Shabazz comparison and I've finally settled on a rich man's Caron Butler. Solid, to really good player, with "great" peak play. Prime Butler would start on many franchises and make a few all star appearances. It fills a glaring need for us, and gives us a capable scorer. I don't think we'll in a position to get either so it is sort of moot.

Edited January 25, 2013 by nuposse87

[StillUnknown]

Wall starting tonight, still on the minutes limit.

[nuposse87]

Wall starting tonight, still on the minutes limit.

Well he'll have luke ridinour on him, so it should be a decent home start for him I imagine. Good news though, management finally realizing Wall's time should be spent with Beal and Webster, not Ariza and JC.

[TradeTheBeal!]

Wall starting tonight, still on the minutes limit.

Excellent. Lets see if he can get that chemistry with Beal that was starting to show itself on the road trip.

[Going Commando]

Zeller is not better then Lopez, not until you give me some reasoning other than you say he is.

He's faster and a much better athlete? Said that in the post you're quoting. He's also got more skills scoring around the basket. Lopez is not close to as good an athlete as Zeller is.

Regarding the Blake comparison, that is a terrible one. Blake's entire game is predicated on absurd levels of athleticism (which Zeller cannot even come close to touching). He makes up for t-rex arms by jumping over the standing reach of most big men. Zeller cannot do that. He is not as fast as Blake nor is he as big. And Blake's standing reach will become a big problem unless he gets some skill later in his career. I doubt Zeller will get the superstar calls that Blake gets as well, so while he does shoot well from the FT line, it will probably be moot. So the the t-rex arm thing is completely fair as Zeller's game is not above the rim, as much as you may think it is. He isn't exactly playing against legit NBA size in college.

The Blake comparison was based off people saying he had T-Rex arms and that length was a problem--he doesn't and length isn't a problem for him at all. It never will be either BTW.

I guarantee you Zeller's arm length will be longer than what you say it is because every time people talk about a prospect having arms way shorter than their height they're wrong. It seems to me like you're basing a lot of your negativity of Zeller around the supposed 6'8 wingspan which is almost certainly wrong.

1.) Zeller absolutely does play above the rim.

2.) He's not a tweener. He's got legit center size and a pure low post scorer. He's a true NBA center. If a team plays him at PF, they'll only be doing so to try and create a mismatch

3.) You're completely speculating about him not being able to get to the line at a high rate. You're speculation is unrealistic, because he DOES get to the line at a high rate in reality.

4.) His main advantage will be that he's got superior quickness and footwork for a big man and is a remarkable scorer in the painted area.

McLemore has more potential then Beal, and I love Beal. It is down right asinine to think Zeller as more potential then McLemore.

You're massively overrated McLemore. McLemore is a straight line runner that can't dribble. He will never make an All Star game as a SG without massively improving his handle and CoD. He does not have superior potential to Beal. He has never been a better player than Beal at any point and they grew up playing together. He isn't as good a prospect as Beal was and probably won't be a better player. Beal has good handles and is a far more fluid athlete than can work laterally and create space, get his shot off the dribble, maneuver around the floor in tight spaces. He's also a better finisher around the basket, is stronger, and has a more rounded skill set.

Zeller has better potential than McLemore. He's an athletic 7 footer with a highly developed low post offensive game at 20 years old. McLemore is a spot up shooter that runs fast and jumps high.

Zeller needs to develop a very reliable back-to-the-basket game in order to survive in this league. That and add some more weight, which will more than likely cost him some of his average athleticism.

You keep saying that Zeller is an average athlete and it's simply not true. Zeller is an outstanding athlete. He runs the floor extremely well and is extremely quick and plays above the rim easily.

I'm thinking you haven't seen a whole lot of him.

[Destino]

Beal does not have good handles. Come on man...

[Gator Bait]

Cousins is a headcase, but he is absolutely salvageable. I think his shooting around the rim is elite, need to find the stats, I could be wrong. Not to mention he's a solid post defender and an elite re bounder, something this team desperately needs. Not to mention his low post passing ability...If Gay was making 10 mil a year, I guess he'd be worth it...but he'll be making 19 mil...in 2 years if i'm not mistaken...that is just stupid money for his level of production.

you can't salvage a headcase....once a headcase...always a headcase. Until he shows he has matured on his own will...I want no part of him.

Gay is the leading scorer on one of the best teams in the league....is he overpayed? A bit. Would he improve this team? yes, a great deal.

[shuler74]

FYI game is on csn+ at 7:00

[Going Commando]

I think an ideal body allows NBA projections to certain attributes to be more easily made. Drummond for instance was a good rebounder and he was huge, in the NBA he's still both of those things. When bigs are weaker, smaller, or reliant on finesse they are harder to predict. That is what creates the question marks for Zeller. He's thin, relies on under the basket scoring moves, and he's got a reach issue. I like the fact that he has so many moves around the basket and knows how to use contact to shield the ball but will that work against much stronger and heavier NBA bigs. That's hard to say.

Zeller does play above the rim and has excellent athleticism. It'll translate. Drummond had an NBA body but that didn't make him easy to peg. Otherwise he would have gone first or second instead of 8th. He was a low skill player and a lot of the high skill players went earlier--Davis, MKG, Beal, Lillard, etc. I think guys like Zeller who come in with an NBA ready set of skills they can go to are easier to project because you know they'll have something to get out on the floor with right away.

Zeller needs to add weight no doubt. But he's going to do that. All these top notch 18 and 19 year olds will eventually, it's practically inevitable. Is it as likely that Drummond will develop an advanced low post scoring game? Doubtful.

Noel is a rail but he's a rebounder, defender, and he can jump out of the gym. If he has the work ethic in the weight room he should be solid, but the little offense he has will take a hit in the NBA. If he ever becomes an offensive threat it will be many years later. Like 5 years or more. Is that worth a top 5 pick? Those types of bigs rarely stay with the same team for long.

I think it's definitely worth it and I don't think you give up on a draft pick like Noel before five years. And I actually think his offensive game might be further along than people realize, just like Anthony Davis's was. I think Calipari keeps his big men on a pretty tight chain.

I don't think a Chandler comparison to Noel works because Noel is such a superior athlete. I'm not sure there have been a ton of players like Noel before.

So my question is what are the safest bets in this draft or the highest upside with a realistically shorter learning curve. Who, if anyone, becomes a good NBA starter or allstar within 3 years? The potential allstars in this draft seem to be Shabazz and Mclemore and both of them at SG. I don't think Shabazz stays at SF in the NBA and I think most scouts agree at this point. The bigs have skills but an awful lot of question marks.

I can't see McLemore becoming an All Star frankly. I can't remember a SG with such poor handles becoming an All Star. He can't be just a pure pick and fade / cutter / spot up shooter and get the kind of scoring he'd need to be an All Star. He needs to be able to comfortable dribble around the whole court and get himself looks off the dribble. It was the big worry with Beal before he demonstrated he did have the handles to do all of that.

I too think Shabazz can be an All Star because he's going to pile up points at every level he plays. He's a born scorer and is super skilled. I think he probably plays at both the 2 and 3 though the 3 is probably his most natural position. He's similar to Manu and Harden and Joe Johnson in that way. When he plays the three he'll be a quickness mismatch. When he plays the 2 he'll be a strength mismatch for opponents. I don't really have a lot of questions about him as a prospect. Although I want to see him do a better job as a passer.

[RonArtest15]

Last time we used a lottery pick in a weak draft, we came away with Vesely. We need to trade that pick in a package to get Rudy Gay. Gay will fit in well with this team and we will be dangerous on the wings.

Still don't understand all the love for Cousins. He makes horrible decisions. You can have all the potential in the world, but when you repeatedly make horrible mistakes, act like a headcase, have horrible character, and shoot 40% from the field as a center.....I want no part. The dude is a bum and unless he matures over night or gets a hell of a coach (in which he buys into) the guy will never reach his potential.

Why would you give up our 2013 1st round pick for Rudy Gay? Dude is as inefficient as they come, makes WAY too much $, and has most likely peaked. How does he help this team more than a younger player with a higher upside like Cousins? Giving up a 1st for Rudy Gay is a typical Ernie move, IMO.

[nuposse87]

I think I'm going to believe DX's actual listed measurements over yours. And I simply don't see the athleticism you speak of. If he had like Mason or Miles Plumlee like athleticism, than the blake comparison is fair, but it is moot. Highlight reel breakaway dunks don't constitute as evidence of athleticism. Find me a clip of him dunking on a legit NBA prospect one-on-one. You have tea party esque belief in the dude so it may not even be worth my time until the combine releases its numbers in the summer time.

Now with regards to Beal and McLemore.

Ben: http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/ben-mclemore-1.html

TS of .644 and a efg of .596....

Beal: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bealbr01.html

TS of .494 and a efg of .451.

Let it be clear, I am very happy with Beal and how he's turning out, but the numbers McLemore is putting up for a wing player are staggering.

I've always been of the mind, if you're a guard putting up staggering numbers in a big program, it speaks more to me than a big doing the same, because an elite big can just physically dominate a game since size is hard to come by in the college game. The Skill and potential he has is only rivaled by Noel, Shabazz and Len. You either haven't seen him play, or don't know how to view the stats in context.

---------- Post added January-25th-2013 at 06:55 PM ----------

you can't salvage a headcase....once a headcase...always a headcase. Until he shows he has matured on his own will...I want no part of him.

Gay is the leading scorer on one of the best teams in the league....is he overpayed? A bit. Would he improve this team? yes, a great deal.

Uhh, Z-bo? Rasheed? Gay is essentially a 6-8 JC, do we really want that? And at what price? He would be a marginal improvement over Webster currently. He isn't even all that great a defender, he's not bad, but he does his share of WTF things. Like the IND v. MEM game, he took an eternity to try to get the potential GW off. How the hell does he think he can dribble the ball and turn around in under like 1.7 seconds or w/e it was. Overpaid, a bit? Are you serious? He should be making half of what he's making with his per 36 numbers being what they are. If we get Gay, fine, I can live with being a treadmill team, but acquiring him would be a sellout move. I don't see a 26 year old swingman finally just "getting" it all of a sudden. We certainly don't have the coach to get it out of him either.

---------- Post added January-25th-2013 at 06:56 PM ----------

you can't salvage a headcase....once a headcase...always a headcase. Until he shows he has matured on his own will...I want no part of him.

Gay is the leading scorer on one of the best teams in the league....is he overpayed? A bit. Would he improve this team? yes, a great deal.

Uhh, Z-bo? Rasheed? Gay is essentially a 6-8 JC, do we really want that? And at what price? He would be a marginal improvement over Webster currently. He isn't even all that great a defender, he's not bad, but he does his share of WTF things. Like the IND v. MEM game, he took an eternity to try to get the potential GW off. How the hell does he think he can dribble the ball and turn around in under like 1.7 seconds or w/e it was. Overpaid, a bit? Are you serious? He should be making half of what he's making with his per 36 numbers being what they are. If we get Gay, fine, I can live with being a treadmill team, but acquiring him would be a sellout move. I don't see a 26 year old swingman finally just "getting" it all of a sudden. We certainly don't have the coach to get it out of him either.

Edited January 25, 2013 by nuposse87

[Going Commando]

Beal does not have good handles. Come on man...

Yeah he does. Beal is a good ball handler. He has very smooth game, can get into the painted area and get to the rim or create room for his shot off the dribble. He's got hesitation moves and step backs and a solid crossover.

The rep on him coming out of Florida was that he didn't have good handles but he's proved that was wrong in the NBA.

McLemore is a converted PF that can only attack the basket in straight lines when he gets a lane.

---------- Post added January-25th-2013 at 07:24 PM ----------

I think I'm going to believe DX's actual listed measurements over yours. And I simply don't see the athleticism you speak of. If he had like Mason or Miles Plumlee like athleticism, than the blake comparison is fair, but it is moot. Highlight reel breakaway dunks don't constitute as evidence of athleticism. Find me a clip of him dunking on a legit NBA prospect one-on-one. You have tea party esque belief in the dude so it may not even be worth my time until the combine releases its numbers in the summer time

For you to see his athleticism you actually have to watch him play.

DX does not have official measurements for Zeller. They've got guesses and suspect measurements from things like Nike games and LeBron camps. If Zeller had such a weakness from short length, wouldn't it show up on the court in some way? He's had absolutely 0 problems getting his shots off and he gets a lot of blocks and steals.

There is a reason why Zeller is universally ranked in the top 5. You're the one whose completely out in left field saying he's barely worthy of a lottery pick.

Now with regards to Beal and McLemore.

Ben: http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/ben-mclemore-1.html

TS of .644 and a efg of .596....

Beal: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bealbr01.html

TS of .494 and a efg of .451.

Let it be clear, I am very happy with Beal and how he's turning out, but the numbers McLemore is putting up for a wing player are staggering.

I've always been of the mind, if you're a guard putting up staggering numbers in a big program, it speaks more to me than a big doing the same, because an elite big can just physically dominate a game since size is hard to come by in the college game. The Skill and potential he has is only rivaled by Noel, Shabazz and Len. You either haven't seen him play, or don't know how to view the stats in context.

I've seen McLemore play several times. Have you? I'm not basing my opinion of him off of numbers but what I've actually seen. His entire offense is catch and shoot spot ups, cuts, straight line drives, transition buckets, and curling off screens and catching and shooting. He does 0 creation for himself off the dribble. He's playing on a great team and he gets all of his looks on easy baskets in a limited offensive role where none of the onus of shot creation is on him.

[StillUnknown]

Vesely got early minutes, they might be trying to showcase him to Minnesota. Ironically, playing him may only hurt his value.

[earl]

any direct TV customers out there? for some reason the wiz aren't on tv. channel 643 has it on the guide but its not on. please advise. thanks

[TradeTheBeal!]

Vesely got early minutes, they might be trying to showcase him to Minnesota. Ironically, playing him may only hurt his value.

Wittman likes the matchup? Ves plays better at home?

...and there ya go.