The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Rocky21]

I am borderline shocked we didn’t end up with the 6th pick ! 😄

 

Things are trending up for Washington pro sports.

 

 

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Pretty sure OKC traded for SGA.  But they traded a lot of picks for him so you could say that he was their pick. 

 

You right.

 

Honestly, I feel this proves my point even more, though.

 

What is the Thunder if they don't have what is essentially an MVP candidate type player right now?  Certainly not the #1 seed in the west, that's for damn sure.

 

If you have to trade for one, so be it.

Edited May 13 by Renegade7

[Going Commando]

Pick Clingan.  Or pick Sarr.  Whichever one plays better defense.  Then use 26 to pick Edey.  Get the seven footer right and the rest of the rebuild takes care of itself.  Our front court is low upside trash and can't play any defense at all, and we will never win anything until that changes, no matter what's going on with our wings and guards.

[bearrock]

22 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

You right.

 

Honestly, I feel this proves my point even more, though.

 

What is the Thunder if they don't have what is essentially an MVP candidate type player right now?  Certainly not the #1 seed in the west, that's for damn sure.

 

If you have to trade for one, so be it.

 

OKC got SGA and multitude of picks for Paul George.  Non destination cities in the NBA have to be patient and be willing to be bad for a while.  Nothing meaningful happens for those cities unless they luck into a franchise star (by whatever means that happens to work).  Worst thing the Wizards could do is to short circuit the rebuilding process and go for quick mediocre fixes.  Whether by draft, trade, or signing, they need to go for young players with high potential upside, not trade assets for known qualities who are good, but not good enough (which is realistically the ceiling for trading picks in a weak draft).  That's how you lock yourself into contending for the play-in year after year.

[Renegade7]

47 minutes ago, bearrock said:

 

OKC got SGA and multitude of picks for Paul George.  Non destination cities in the NBA have to be patient and be willing to be bad for a while.  Nothing meaningful happens for those cities unless they luck into a franchise star (by whatever means that happens to work).  Worst thing the Wizards could do is to short circuit the rebuilding process and go for quick mediocre fixes.  Whether by draft, trade, or signing, they need to go for young players with high potential upside, not trade assets for known qualities who are good, but not good enough (which is realistically the ceiling for trading picks in a weak draft).  That's how you lock yourself into contending for the play-in year after year.

 

I'm sorry this is the same in denial rubber stamp response I've seen all year when in the same breath we know this draft is trash and we won't get a generational player out of that.

 

If yall don't want to trade for someone, don't waste this pick in this draft and act like you didn't know but we're supposed.

 

If this was so black and white in what to do, let ChatGPT do it...clearly it's not this year.

[Spaceman Spiff]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

 

You right.

 

Honestly, I feel this proves my point even more, though.

 

What is the Thunder if they don't have what is essentially an MVP candidate type player right now?  Certainly not the #1 seed in the west, that's for damn sure.

 

If you have to trade for one, so be it.

 

Yeah, but I don't know if OKC knew that SGA was going to be the player he turned into.  I mean, they probably had to have had a feeling because they traded a bunch of picks for him.  But I don't think there was anything he did in that first year with the Clippers that clued anyone in on the scorer he'd become.  

 

So I think you're right to a certain degree, you gotta trade for one but you've also gotta give value to get value.  It's kind of hard for me to remember what the Clips like were a few years ago when they made that trade but IIRC, it was essentially for Paul George...so they wanted someone established and weren't waiting around for rookie SGA to develop.  The Wiz unfortunately don't have anyone on 2019 PG's level that they could trade to get a young but unproven SGA type.  I mean, what could you get for Kuz?

 

Hope that Coulibaly makes a big leap in year 2 and that the #2 pick is someone that they can pair with him and you're off to a good start.  They're probably picking in the lottery again next year though.

[Ball Security]

9 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I'm sorry this is the same in denial rubber stamp response I've seen all year when in the same breath we know this draft is trash and we won't get a generational player out of that.

 

If yall don't want to trade for someone, don't waste this pick in this draft and act like you didn't know but we're supposed.

 

If this was so black and white in what to do, let ChatGPT do it...clearly it's not this year.

Why do you think teams will be wanting to trade good players for a draft pick in this year’s draft?

[Renegade7]

3 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

Why do you think teams will be wanting to trade good players for a draft pick in this year’s draft?

 

A good player thats worth it would take picks in this draft and the next one.

[Renegade7]

27 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Yeah, but I don't know if OKC knew that SGA was going to be the player he turned into.  I mean, they probably had to have had a feeling because they traded a bunch of picks for him.  But I don't think there was anything he did in that first year with the Clippers that clued anyone in on the scorer he'd become.  

 

So I think you're right to a certain degree, you gotta trade for one but you've also gotta give value to get value.  It's kind of hard for me to remember what the Clips like were a few years ago when they made that trade but IIRC, it was essentially for Paul George...so they wanted someone established and weren't waiting around for rookie SGA to develop.  The Wiz unfortunately don't have anyone on 2019 PG's level that they could trade to get a young but unproven SGA type.  I mean, what could you get for Kuz?

 

Hope that Coulibaly makes a big leap in year 2 and that the #2 pick is someone that they can pair with him and you're off to a good start.  They're probably picking in the lottery again next year though.

 

You might be right and I hope Steve is...

[Spaceman Spiff]

3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

You might be right and I hope Steve is...

 

I think I'd be in favor of trading this #2 pick if this draft were loaded in order to get some more picks down the line but since this draft is being panned as not being that strong, I'm not sure what they'd get for this years #2.  

 

At some point, you gotta just hope the Wiz catch a break and a little luck.  It figures they get the #2 pick in a year where the draft isn't strong.

[bearrock]

3 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I'm sorry this is the same in denial rubber stamp response I've seen all year when in the same breath we know this draft is trash and we won't get a generational player out of that.

 

If yall don't want to trade for someone, don't waste this pick in this draft and act like you didn't know but we're supposed.

 

If this was so black and white in what to do, let ChatGPT do it...clearly it's not this year.

 

You want to pull the plug on the only rebuilding method that has even a remote chance of working for DC after one year?  Did you enjoy the all-in for play-in years under Beal and handing out that albatross of a contract?

 

Would I trade this pick for an up and coming young player?  Hell yes.  Would I trade this pick for boatload of future firsts?  Hell yes to that too.  But if the draft is so bad that you consider this season's tanking a failure, what value do you expect in return?  

 

No one thinks we are getting a generational player in this draft.  That's ludicrous.  The point is not whether we get a generational player this draft or the next or ever quite frankly.  The point is that until (and that until may never come) Washington somehow hits a jackpot and acquires a franchise cornerstone, this franchise is not going anywhere.  For this franchise, that jackpot is mostly likely to come via the draft.  You cannot attract top free agents unless you are a destination city or a contender.  And you can't acquire top value assets without some semblance of top assets going the other way.  So how else do you propose to acquire a franchise cornerstone other than the draft?

[Renegade7]

25 minutes ago, bearrock said:

 

You want to pull the plug on the only rebuilding method that has even a remote chance of working for DC after one year?  Did you enjoy the all-in for play-in years under Beal and handing out that albatross of a contract?

 

You're jus venting, I've never been a fan of tanking, I didn't want to do this or give Beal his max before we did either one.  The receipts are in this thread.

 

25 minutes ago, bearrock said:

Would I trade this pick for an up and coming young player?  Hell yes.  Would I trade this pick for boatload of future firsts?  Hell yes to that too.  But if the draft is so bad that you consider this season's tanking a failure, what value do you expect in return?  

 

No one thinks we are getting a generational player in this draft.  That's ludicrous. 

 

We should at least weigh our options before jud assuming we have no choice but to pick where we are.  Value you to me is my opinion, not that of the other 29 teams in the NBA.

 

There's not only no generational talent in this draft there's also no franchise cornerstone.  What's ludicrous is we've been saying the only way to get either is what we jus did, but now that neither are there we're jus going to pick a player at #2 anyway? 

 

The worst teams doesn't get the best pick in the NBA, there's no way to know if we are still tanking next year that we still get a pick this high next year.

 

Quote

The point is not whether we get a generational player this draft or the next or ever quite frankly.  The point is that until (and that until may never come) Washington somehow hits a jackpot and acquires a franchise cornerstone, this franchise is not going anywhere.  For this franchise, that jackpot is mostly likely to come via the draft.  You cannot attract top free agents unless you are a destination city or a contender. 

 

I've lost count how many times I've seen this same post from other people, we tanked and likely getting nothing out of it in this draft.

 

Quote

And you can't acquire top value assets without some semblance of top assets going the other way.  So how else do you propose to acquire a franchise cornerstone other than the draft?

 

We already have two 1st in this draft alone, I'd call Memphis about Ja Morant yesterday to start negotiations. Said that jus a couple posts ago, hell, I've been "joking" about this in lieu of also changing our name back to the bullets...what yall might not of realized is i was dead ass serious.

 

If it doesn't work out, what do we lose if we know both 1st rounds won't be cornerstone or generational talents?

 

We've established "why" we have to tank.  We've gotten a pick deemed "worth the trouble of tanking".  But now no one is there worth picking that high?  So now What?  ????...profit?

 

I'm open to jus putting me two hands together and hoping for the best.  But it is getting annoying AF everytime I call out the lack of players worth what we tanked for and have to be reminded we have to do this when I suggest we do something other then pick someone who isn't worth #2 pick.

 

Most of yall got what you wanted with a pick this high, I'm saying don't waste it "doing what you supposed to do" if you know what you tanked for isn't there.

Edited May 13 by Renegade7

[bearrock]

10 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

You're jus venting, I've never been a fan of tanking, I didn't want to do this or give Beal his max before we did either one.  The receipts are in this thread.

 

 

We should at least weigh our options before jud assuming we have no choice but to pick where we are.  Value you to me is my opinion, not that of the other 29 teams in the NBA.

 

There's not only no generational talent in this draft there's also no franchise cornerstone.  What's ludicrous is we've been saying the only way to get either is what we jus did, but now that neither are there we're jus going to pick a player at #2 anyway? 

 

The worst teams doesn't get the best pick in the NBA, there's no way to know if we are still tanking next year that we still get a pick this high next year.

 

 

I've lost count how many times I've seen this same post from other people, we tanked and likely getting nothing out of it in this draft.

 

 

We already have two 1st in this draft alone, I'd call Memphis about Ja Morant yesterday to start negotiations. Said that jus a couple posts ago, hell, I've been "joking" about this in lieu of also changing our name back to the bullets...what yall might not of realized is i was dead ass serious.

 

If it doesn't work out, what do we lose if we know both 1st rounds won't be cornerstone or generational talents?

 

We've established "why" we have to tank.  We've gotten a pick deemed "worth the trouble of tanking".  But now know one is there worth picking that high?  So now What?  ????...profit?

 

I'm open to jus putting me two hands together and hoping for the best.  But it is getting annoying AF everytime I call out the lack of players worth what we tanked for and have to be reminded we have to do this when I suggest we do something other then pick someone who isn't worth #2 pick.

 

Most of yall got what you wanted with a picnic this high, I'm saying don't waste it "doing what you supposed to do" if you know what you tanked for isn't there.

 

If you're Memphis, are you trading Ja Morant for this year's 2nd and 26th?  I'm not saying no if I'm the Wizards.  But I'm assuming they say hell no

 

Your fundamental problem lies in wanting a guaranteed path to short term rebuild.  Newsflash, such a path do not exist for DC.  All the pie in the sky scenarios for fleecing other teams in trades do not change the reality that such is not a plan for DC but a prayer.  

[Renegade7]

15 minutes ago, bearrock said:

 

If you're Memphis, are you trading Ja Morant for this year's 2nd and 26th?  I'm not saying no if I'm the Wizards.  But I'm assuming they say hell no

 

I said start negotionations....Kuzma's contract is designed to be tradeable.

 

Just admit you don't want to do this and that's why you stopping at what you assume I'm proposing so you can say "no" to it.

 

15 minutes ago, bearrock said:

Your fundamental problem lies in wanting a guaranteed path to short term rebuild.  Newsflash, such a path do not exist for DC.  All the pie in the sky scenarios for fleecing other teams in trades do not change the reality that such is not a plan for DC but a prayer.  

 

Yawn.

 

Hold on for a sec....*double yawn

 

Tired of you putting words in my mouth.  No one has proposed fleecing anyone.  The point I've been trying to make is we won't get a player worth as high as we're drafting this year, so why not trade it?  You mentioned trading for future picks, I'm not against that. I'd jus prefer a player.

 

We tanked to get a player to build around...case can be made Memphis is probably ready to move on from all the chaos they've had to deal with Ja lately if as soon as he came back he got hurt and missed rest of the reason.

 

We need a player to build around, I'm at least open minded to how we do it, even standing pat. What I won't do is jus stick my head in the sand to do what we're supposed to do with that pick knowing we won't get the results we convinced ourselves was worth it for doing it. 

 

We do not have to pick someone #2 in this draft...he'll trade down and show me what this overhauled talent evaluation team can really do? Get us some more tradeable assets then jus Kuzma at least, damn.

Edited May 13 by Renegade7

[@DCGoldPants]

it would be nice if Winger/Dawkins could make what felt like the impact Harris and Peters are doing with the Football Team. But that just doesn't seem realistic. I know they came in before this season and were able to get started with some moves to free up cap and prepare for tanking. But, I wouldn't be shocked if this offseason they spend to get to the league min. and with draft picks, go very young thinking it's going to be another tank year.

 

****, they don't even have a coach right now.

 

Still, I'm willing to see how this plays out. After so many years of going all in for a low seed for Ted. I don't know who thought building a new foundation and then going from there was going to be a 1 or 2 year deal. 

[bearrock]

10 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

I said start negotionations....Kuzma's contract is designed to be tradeable.

 

Just admit you don't want to do this and that's why you stopping at what you assume I'm proposing so you can say "no" to it.

 

Dude, there is not an asset that is off the table for the Wizards in a trade to acquire Ja Morant.  But that is far cry from having a viable package.  If you think Wizards have the assets to acquire Morant or any of the other young superstars in the league, go right ahead but if you think Wizards FO is the one saying no to any scenario involving Wizards assets for Morant, that's just ridiculous.  And then to use that pipe dream scenario as some strawman for "why don't they just do that instead????".  How about because Memphis is not an idiot and they will say no.

 

14 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Yawn.

 

Hold on for a sec....*double yawn

 

Tired of you putting words in my mouth.  No one has proposed fleecing anyone.  The point I've been trying to make is we won't get a player worth as high as we're drafting this year, so why not trade it?  You mentioned trading for future picks, I'm not against that. I'd jus prefer a player.

 

We tanked to get a player to build around...case can be made Memphis is probably ready to move on from all the chaos they've had to deal with Ja lately if as soon as he came back he got hurt and missed rest of the reason.

 

We need a player to build around, I'm at least open minded to how we do it, even standing pat. What I won't do is jus stick my head in the sand to do what we're supposed to do with that pick knowing we won't get the results we convinced ourselves was worth it for doing it. 

 

We do not have to pick someone #2 in this draft...he'll trade down and show me what this overhauled talent evaluation team can really do? Get us some more tradeable assets then jus Kuzma at least, damn.

 

Trade a pick in a terrible draft.  Fine.  Who knows, they may do just that.  Just don't expect some grand package in return.  I have no particular preference as to what the FO does with this pick and never suggested otherwise (talk about putting words in someone else's mouth).  That's not what is being discussed.  The question is how they go about acquiring assets in the future.  

[Renegade7]

4 minutes ago, bearrock said:

I have no particular preference as to what the FO does with this pick and never suggested otherwise (talk about putting words in someone else's mouth).  That's not what is being discussed.  The question is how they go about acquiring assets in the future.  

 

These are the same thing in my book if what we do with this pick impacts getting future assets.

 

You calling trading for Ja a pipe dream, maybe this is a better place to have this conversation:

 

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=2328979

 

This response caught my eye because a lot of people feelnif he stays Memphis is still good, but from Memphis fans who've seen this whole thing so far don't all feel that way:

 

 

 

[Fergasun]

Steph Curry wasn't a generational talent. Until he was. Guess what pick SGA was?  11th pick. I think it's silly to make assumptions about the talent in NBA drafts.  No clear talent, perhaps.  I am sitting here hoping that the Hawks pass on Sarr. 

 

But gettng the 2nd pick in the draft is great. Right now, it's Topic or Sarr for me.

[Renegade7]

Just now, Fergasun said:

Steph Curry wasn't a generational talent. Until he was. Guess what pick SGA was?  11th pick. I think it's silly to make assumptions about the talent in NBA drafts.  No clear talent, perhaps.  I am sitting here hoping that the Hawks pass on Sarr. 

 

But gettng the 2nd pick in the draft is great. Right now, it's Topic or Sarr for me.

 

I get your point, but you can keep going with examples on this point you're making for years.

 

This draft class in particular has been considered by many experts and pretty much everyone in this thread been labeled as a bad draft top to bottom, absolute worst case scenario we could find ourselves with the #2 pick in.

 

Both of these things can be true at the same time.

[bearrock]

12 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

These are the same thing in my book if what we do with this pick impacts getting future assets.

 

You calling trading for Ja a pipe dream, maybe this is a better place to have this conversation:

 

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=2328979

 

This response caught my eye because a lot of people feelnif he stays Memphis is still good, but from Memphis fans who've seen this whole thing so far don't all feel that way:

 

 

 

 

Memphis entertaining a trade for Morant and Wizards having sufficient assets to acquire him are two completely different things.  

 

[abdcskins]

I would love if the Wizards could come up with some awesome package and acquire a star that could immediately make this team a contender. I just don't think that is feasible. We have no trade chips other than Kuzma. 

 

Keep the pick and hope for the best. Pretty sure we ene up drafting Risacher.

[Renegade7]

9 minutes ago, bearrock said:

 

Memphis entertaining a trade for Morant and Wizards having sufficient assets to acquire him are two completely different things.  

 

 

This I agree with, this is fair.

Edited May 13 by Renegade7

[@DCGoldPants]

16 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

This draft class in particular has been considered by many experts and pretty much everyone in this thread been labeled as a bad draft top to bottom, absolute worst case scenario we could find ourselves with the #2 pick in.

 

We'll just have to wait and see if that plays out as true. They have to say something about this class, and most of them aren't watching eurohoops or G-league. Maybe it is a weak class. Maybe some 2nd rounder this year becomes a Jokić. It's not likely but to say flat out how weak the class is...... I don't know. Because some of these guys are like 18 and 19. I wish we could see a reminder for 4-5 years here to come back and look. I think having the 2nd overall isn't worst case. I think if it is the weakest draft ever and we had #9 again, that could be the argument. 

 

They have the 2nd pick and 26th pick in the 1st. Then what? 51? It's going to be interesting. 

[Going Commando]

Just pick Sarr or Clingan.  We need to be able to control the paint to beat any of these playoff teams.  None of these guards or wings are going to be transcendent players.  Get the foundation big and try again for the elite perimeter player next year.

 

Trying to win with the kinds of bigs we've had for the past 30 years is like trying to win in the NFL with total garbage for your OL and DL.  It's just never going to happen.  Get off the treadmill and pick a big that's actually worth building around.  Then hedge your bets with Edey in the late first just in case he's the next Jokic.  I swear to God if we talk ourselves into some soft ass Euro wing because we think we've got something with Kuzma and Bagley, I will never watch another Wizards game again.

[Renegade7]

Steve is with us!!!!

 

 

*Even if temporarily...